QPR v Saints - Post Match Views

[Legod Second Coming]

Some lovely football from the youngsters, but unless they learn how to defend we are just going to get picked off again and again. Yes, the luck didn't go our way today, but nearly every ball into our box or over the top caused mayhem with 10 or 11 men. Didn't learn the lessons from Blackpool and badly missed a leader at the back, as well as some protection from Gillett/Scheiderlin when down to 10.

Sublime goal from Lallana was glorious to watch...

Agreed Chris. I don't think Wotton is a natural CB, Cork too early to say. Lancashire... we won't know for three games now...

That said, we couldn't have had worse luck with the timing of their second goal. Just after we come back into the game and start to look more confident...

[Dalek2003]

I cant believe you went as far as emailing him. You hated Hoddle that much? The most successful (in terms of winning %) manager we have had in a long time?!

Well, in my humble opinion, it is because of you and others which also have an 'ug ug, Im too stupid to forgive' attitude that we are in our current mess. I personally believe Hoddle would not have got us relegated. He wouldnt have not cared like bagpuss.


True, and the chickens are coming home to roost.

[Greenridge]

Experience is being promoted on here as the answer, for me it isn't. What would be useful is quality, fit, skilled, motivated, experienced players with leadership skills.

The fact is we can't afford them. Thomas and Euell are long term injured, Skacel is probably looking to get away. Svennson, Perry, Wooton, Davis, John are motivated. I don't know where BWP stands. That leaves us with the rest of the young squad.

I really can't see any point in pie in the sky proposals to insert experience, we just don't have much available.

Why is it 'pie in the sky'? We have some who the club have tried to force out and whilst they are not our saviours they could perform a stop-gap where we need it - especially if they are to remain on the books for the immediate future. The loan window will also give us access to these type of players. We might not want the extra burden of their wages but I'm sure we don't want to be in the bottom 3 come the end of the season either.

Why was Wooton not at centre-half today? On the radio a couple of weeks ago Nicky Banger was saying he couldn't understand why Wooton was being touted as a midfielder as he played every game at Plymouth (when Banger was there) as a centre-half. There were plenty of options for midfielders but the bare bones at the back.

[Johnny Shearer]

Completely baffled by Perry not playing today. Him and Cork would have steadied the ship IMO. Again as against Blackpool, we were crying out for Stern to come on and hold up play.

Until the sending off I thought we were getting back into it. A reckless tackle, which I hope Ollie will learn from.

Yes we got mullered but that took effect when we went a man down. The balance needs to be sorted and JP has to recognise that Stern-Wotton-Perry-Davis as the spine of the team is imperative.

[Kaiser Soze]

lol @ the pitch invader when we scored

[Whitey Grandad]

True, and the chickens are coming home to roost.
Pathetic! You constantly state that we would not have been relegated with Hoddle in charge - although you can't prove it and nobody can ever disprove it - and then go on from that to infer that nobody else could have saved us from relegation. By that argument every club that did not appoint Hoddle would have been relegated.

[chi saint]

Some positives from this game

Davis simply outstanding - how he ever got stick in the past from the so called fans i'll never know. Time and time again he proves to be our best player.

Whilst we were lacking who knows what may have been the outcome but for the sending off, which for my money was harsh. We were starting to assert ourselves just went he went off. Upset any chance of a win.

Still early days.

[Kaiser Soze]

My concern is we continue to defend like we did today will get a proper humilation, today we were fortunate and condeded only four, on another day we could have conceded eight. The side is very young and I don't think it is emotionally strong enough to recover from a real battering, and judging from the inexperience that was witnessed today, that is only round the corner.

Hope I'm wrong.

[Dalek2003]

I am busy building a time machine.
I am going back to feb 2004. Glenn Hoddle has signed the contract and will start as manager of saints at the end of the month.
There are a few boo boys in the stadium, but the players respect and respond to the exEngland manager.
We finish comfortably mid table and the rebuilding begins.
Hoddle is able to attract good esperienced playesd which he belnds with a mixture of youths.
In 2008 we find ourselves in the Premiership, apart from the occasional disappointment and the usual rivalary with Portsmouth we are a solid Premiership side.
We are ripe for big investment that appears to be on its way.
Now wher is the flux capicator ?

[ALWAYS_SFC]

I am busy building a time machine.
I am going back to feb 2004. Glenn Hoddle has signed the contract and will start as manager of saints at the end of the month.
There are a few boo boys in the stadium, but the players respect and respond to the exEngland manager.
We finish comfortably mid table and the rebuilding begins.
Hoddle is able to attract good esperienced playesd which he belnds with a mixture of youths.
In 2008 we find ourselves in the Premiership, apart from the occasional disappointment and the usual rivalary with Portsmouth we are a solid Premiership side.
We are ripe for big investment that appears to be on its way.
Now wher is the flux capicator ?

The asylum security has got lax again:D

[Papa Shango]

I am busy building a time machine.
I am going back to feb 2004. Glenn Hoddle has signed the contract and will start as manager of saints at the end of the month.
There are a few boo boys in the stadium, but the players respect and respond to the exEngland manager.
We finish comfortably mid table and the rebuilding begins.
Hoddle is able to attract good esperienced playesd which he belnds with a mixture of youths.
In 2008 we find ourselves in the Premiership, apart from the occasional disappointment and the usual rivalary with Portsmouth we are a solid Premiership side.
We are ripe for big investment that appears to be on its way.
Now wher is the flux capicator ?

Or, Hoddle takes over and falls out with all the players (Like he's done many times) and we go down anyway and end up in exactly the same position as we are in now.

[Whitey Grandad]

I am busy building a time machine.
I am going back to feb 2004. Glenn Hoddle has signed the contract and will start as manager of saints at the end of the month.
There are a few boo boys in the stadium, but the players respect and respond to the exEngland manager.
We finish comfortably mid table and the rebuilding begins.
Hoddle is able to attract good esperienced playesd which he belnds with a mixture of youths.
In 2008 we find ourselves in the Premiership, apart from the occasional disappointment and the usual rivalary with Portsmouth we are a solid Premiership side.
We are ripe for big investment that appears to be on its way.
Now wher is the flux capicator ?
You will find it difficult to find any players that liked or respected Hoddle when they played under him. One quote was 'if he were made of chocolate he would eat himself'.

[Dalek2003]

You will find it difficult to find any players that liked or respected Hoddle when they played under him. One quote was 'if he were made of chocolate he would eat himself'.

Not the sentiments of Paul Ince who recently called Hoddle 'world class'.

[Dalek2003]

Or, Hoddle takes over and falls out with all the players (Like he's done many times) and we go down anyway and end up in exactly the same position as we are in now.

hmm, more risky than a rooky League 1 manager.

[Thedelldays]

Or, Hoddle takes over and falls out with all the players (Like he's done many times) and we go down anyway and end up in exactly the same position as we are in now.
for all his wrong doings he has NEVER taken a team this low ever....even the great sturrock is managing to do a worse job and so many seem to think he is better than hoddle..

arry was awful when he was here and regarded as one of the worst managers we have had..
he was one goal away from keeping that shambles that was saints up...I would like to think Hoddle would have faired a bit better..

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Not the sentiments of Paul Ince who recently called Hoddle 'world class'.

As a player maybe but as a manager nope..well just look at his record...very average.

[Whitey Grandad]

Not the sentiments of Paul Ince who recently called Hoddle 'world class'.
There are several world class tossers out there. He was certainly a 'world class' player, but as a manager he was nothing special.

[Dalek2003]

There are several world class tossers out there. He was certainly a 'world class' player, but as a manager he was nothing special.

Ince was talking about Glenn as a 'world class manager'.

[Thedelldays]

There are several world class tossers out there. He was certainly a 'world class' player, but as a manager he was nothing special.
nothing special would do me right now and when WGS left and instead of arry

[Alucard]

I'm sorry Yorkie, but I would rather be eeking out 1-0 wins and winning scrappy games as opposed to being the whipping boys who have spirit and play some neat football in the middle of the park.

Football is ultimately about winning and the gutsy losers will soon be forgotten.

And our non-gutsy losers from last season have been forgotten already.

If it were only as simplistic as you imply. Play scrappily and we can win 1-0. We played scrappily last season and managed to concede 5 at Preston, Sheff W and Hull. And don't forget Bristol Rovers that was awfully scrappy and we didn't win that one either.

[Papa Shango]

hmm, more risky than a rooky League 1 manager.

Why do you talk like Sturrock and Hoddle were the only choices? There were dozens and dozens of managers available at the time who would have been far better than both of those two, who are and always were no more than average.

And it wasn't the fans who made the decision to appoint Strurrock so I don't know why you're blaming them.

[Whitey Grandad]

nothing special would do me right now and when WGS left and instead of arry
:) I know how you feel. I shall be there Wednesday, of course, but it's like being at the bedside of a loved one who is seriously ill.

[saintcrris]

Credit and respect for admitting it.

Give it a bloody rest

What the hell has Glen Bloody Hodldle got to do with todays match?

I personnaly think you are way out of line with your constant attacks at fans who part with there well erned cash watching SFC up and down the country. Along with the other arm chair supporters like ART & Scooby who constantly blame fans who pay money to watch SFC.

Why the **** are we torturing each other in the blame game. Yes im no Lowe fan or Hoddle for that matter but do you really think. I and others would part with well earned money week in week out only to be accused of somehow being happy that we LOST just so I can come on here and have a go at Lowe/Hoddle (he has gone get over it) etc etc.....

It beggers belief that we somehow might have a Pompey fan (like some say Scooby is)
Accusing the Northam the tea lady etc etc of being some kind of monsters and all that is bad with the club because he happens to be on a windup or he really does have pictures of Rupert Lowe on his bedroom ceiling/along with your pictures of Hoddle.

Rant over.......

[Dalek2003]

Why do you talk like Sturrock and Hoddle were the only choices? There were dozens and dozens of managers available at the time who would have been far better than both of those two, who are and always were no more than average.

And it wasn't the fans who made the decision to appoint Strurrock so I don't know why you're blaming them.


So, why was PS appointed ?

[Whitey Grandad]

So, why was PS appointed ?
Because Hoddle dumped us for his 'spiritual home'.

[Thedelldays]

Because Hoddle dumped us for his 'spiritual home'.
erm, you are getting your years mixed up me thinks

[gjphilsaint]

could not give a monkeys about Hoddle or any other ex manager right now.. take it to another thread. As for todays game we are light weight despite some very nice position play we did not really push into strong positions when we had the chance... many of our efforts were weak. We look light weight and will continued to get picked off by more ruthless, direct and stronger teams. gulp!! because there are quite a few of them, many of which we used to think we could beat, Blackpool being one...for instance...

[Whitey Grandad]

erm, you are getting your years mixed up me thinks
I'm getting old. :( The point is, Hoddle had his chance and he dumped us when it suited him. He only used us to get back in to management. Even WGS left us once his payoff from Coventry came through and he could afford to get his hip fixed.

[Whitey Grandad]

could not give a monkeys about Hoddle or any other ex manager right now.. take it to another thread. As for todays game we are light weight despite some very nice position play we did not really push into strong positions when we had the chance... many of our efforts were weak. We look light weight and will continued to get picked off by more ruthless, direct and stronger teams. gulp!! because there are quite a few of them, many of which we used to think we could beat, Blackpool being one...for instance...
Well said. Perhaps we should start making a list of those teams that we think we might stand a chance against.

[brmbrm]

This is Lowe's revenge. Get used to it, becuase there is going to be lots more.

[Dalek2003]

I'm getting old. :( The point is, Hoddle had his chance and he dumped us when it suited him. He only used us to get back in to management. Even WGS left us once his payoff from Coventry came through and he could afford to get his hip fixed.


Sadly, football today is full of mercenaries. There is no room for sentiment. You hire the best and make a pact with the devil if you have too.
So some SFC fans took the high groud over Hoddle. Fine. Accept the consequences.

[Fan The Flames]

I am busy building a time machine.
I am going back to feb 2004. Glenn Hoddle has signed the contract and will start as manager of saints at the end of the month.
There are a few boo boys in the stadium, but the players respect and respond to the exEngland manager.
We finish comfortably mid table and the rebuilding begins.
Hoddle is able to attract good esperienced playesd which he belnds with a mixture of youths.
In 2008 we find ourselves in the Premiership, apart from the occasional disappointment and the usual rivalary with Portsmouth we are a solid Premiership side.
We are ripe for big investment that appears to be on its way.
Now wher is the flux capicator ?

Well if we cant beat Pompey under GH then you can leave the flux capacitor where it is

[um pahars]

And our non-gutsy losers from last season have been forgotten already.

If it were only as simplistic as you imply. Play scrappily and we can win 1-0. We played scrappily last season and managed to concede 5 at Preston, Sheff W and Hull. And don't forget Bristol Rovers that was awfully scrappy and we didn't win that one either.

Which is why I said eek out a one nil win or win a scrappy game.

Last season's non gutsy losers will not be easily forgotten, but sadly this season is turning into a losing one, albeit that the players are gutsy. Being gutsy is admirable, but the last time I checked the league rules I couldn't see how many points you were awarded for that characteristic.

I would prefer neither losing with or without a gutsy performance, and instead get back to watching a winning team and moving up the league.

[J Bizzle]

We were ****, simple as. First half we were completely outplayed, midfield needs a serious overhall with Gillet being dropped a necessity. Lallana should not be playing 90 mins, yes he is a great prospect but is not a 90 min player atm. He plays well for 5 mins then goes wondering for half an hour, not what we need. I see him more of an impact player for the most of this season and he would be much more effective coming on for the last 30. John has to be played and i think McGoldrick needs to be out wide right as he seems to favour that position, Skacel needs to be on the left especially with the Holmes injury, and we need to start gambling more. Defending set pieces is also needs a major improvement. marking should be man marking and if you can't win the ball, at least stop the attacking player getting a free attempt on goal and the ball can never bounce in the box. Davis was fantastic and deserved MoMdidnt deserve to let 4 in, had someone else been in goal 7 could easilly have been conceded. I think Schniederlin needs to be given as much creative freedom as possible, his vision surpasses every other player in the division and he needs to be played.

[Micky]

We were ****, simple as. First half we were completely outplayed, midfield needs a serious overhall with Gillet being dropped a necessity. Lallana should not be playing 90 mins, yes he is a great prospect but is not a 90 min player atm. He plays well for 5 mins then goes wondering for half an hour, not what we need. I see him more of an impact player for the most of this season and he would be much more effective coming on for the last 30. John has to be played and i think McGoldrick needs to be out wide right as he seems to favour that position, Skacel needs to be on the left especially with the Holmes injury, and we need to start gambling more. Defending set pieces is also needs a major improvement. marking should be man marking and if you can't win the ball, at least stop the attacking player getting a free attempt on goal and the ball can never bounce in the box. Davis was fantastic and deserved MoMdidnt deserve to let 4 in, had someone else been in goal 7 could easilly have been conceded. I think Schniederlin needs to be given as much creative freedom as possible, his vision surpasses every other player in the division and he needs to be played.

Right - thats that then - sorted....!!!!

[adriansfc]

Oh well. **** start, but even game until ten men, which was harsh given it's a youngster and not a vicious challenge, just mistimed. could have shown some common sense and given a harsh warning and yellow.

still, excellent reaction from the 10 men to get back in and get the 1-1. what can you do about the 2-1 goal? practice the offside trap all week, get it absolutely spot on on the day, and have the ref/lineman do that to you?! no way back from there so i dont blame the players. absolutely appalling decision.

after that they were up and we struggled. difficult fixture at the best of times, and that was the worst of times.

it's the barnsley game we have to focus on. we must win games like that and it's those we should be judged on, not ten men at qpr.

[offix]

Ru**rt's brilliant plan is exposed for the cr@p that it is, and the number of his admirer's is rapidly shrinking. Sounds like another season that I remember from not too long ago. Let's hope history doesn't repeat itself in the final result at the end of the season.

[northam 12th man]

rubbish to be fair.

we dont seem to want to shoot when 20 yards out or closer.

why?

changes are looming

KK in!! ya i wish

[saintrich]

We need to drop McGoldrick.

He is absolutely useless as a lone striker.

Sure he works hard, but his biggest problem is that he drops stupidly deep and then when we cross we have no-one in the box as McGoldrick is walking towards the edge of the box.

He also holds onto the ball for far too long and gets tackled trying to run past 5 players.

We could do with getting a centre back AND a right back... sorry but Lloyd James isn't a full back whatsoever... he got absolutely done down the left by Cook and Delaney time and time again.

[Frank's cousin]

I sometimes hate being a football fan.... because right now I am torn between a new excitement at te prospect of what we might achieve versus whether we are in division 2 before we know it.

OK so maybe not that bad, but i loved the way we played yesterday (for the most part) and Lallana's goal summed up what football is all about. Its exciting, and the pasing agme from lets be honest from such a young and inexperienced side can be joy to watch - I love the idea that my team is playing this way..... but we will get slaughtered many time this season, if we dont sort out teh defensive frailties.

The question is, would I rather we played a more physical, direct game and had 12 points on the board or watch the kids develop with style with 3? choices choices... for now I can cope with the position as we will soon be due top spank someone....

the natural other worry is that the cream of talent will not be here come season end, play offs, relegation or mid table - the reality of championship sides.

Arse....

[JustMike]

was impressed with what i saw of peckhart (spl?) some of his movement in the box was pretty good for a young lad. i would have him start v Ipswich

[Chez]

Its hard to evaluate the side when you are down to ten men for an hour, but the fact we got back into the game showed the positives of a passing game. What a ****ing goal, one of the best I have seen for years.

But yet again the shortcomings of our lack of quality showed up. It's not youth that is the problem, no one has a problem playing Lallana, the problem is we do not have enough top class players throughout the side (young or old).

I think some minor tinkering could help improve things though:
James is not a fullback. His positional play needs to improve massively (and no doubt it will in time) as he has zero pace. Either play Cork there or get a fullback on loan.
McGoldrick is not good enough to lead the line on his own. He is tricky, but he lacks raw pace and doesn't have the strength required. IMO he doesn't bust a gut to get in the six yard box. He is just not a threat. Either play him with somneone else or play JOhn.
Gillett has not been good enough. His first touch is constantly poor and he is not getting hold of the game. Perhaps he needs more time to settle in. I wonder if Pulis will be better?
Why take Schneiderling off to play McGoldrick in midfield - he is **** there. In fact why is he being taken off full stop, we go to pieces after he goes off.
The side lacks height everywhere and add to this we do not have ball winners at full back either. Not sure how to solve this one.

[badgerx16]

it's the barnsley game we have to focus on. we must win games like that and it's those we should be judged on, not ten men at qpr.

Bit like the Blackpool game then ? :confused:

[mscoones]

From watching today’s game you can take positives from it, but you could also get very worried as well.

Good Points:

Going forward we looked quite good and played some great football, however sometimes our youngsters need to learn to shoot quicker. There were several times today where I thought they could take a shot but held on to it to look for a pass out wide or to someone running through. We aren’t going to score many goals if we don’t shoot.

Kelvin played brilliantly; I don't really blame him for the first goal as he would have been wrong footed being nearer the front post, not leaving him much time to get out.

Adam Lallana was brilliant, for a youngster he has come on leaps and bounds and that goal was class

Bad Points:

Whoever thought it wasn't a sending off really needs to look at the replay and change their minds. For me it was clear-cut. Annoyingly he should never have thrown himself in like that as he could have kept the player and the ball in the corner.

Defence Defence Defence - We really were bad at the back today, it could have been a lot worse, but Kelvin made some amazing saves and we still lost 4:1. I know the second shouldn’t have been a goal and some people will say (including our manager) that changed the game and gave QPR the advantage, but the warning signs were there already. Remember they had 2 (probably only 1 because Kelvin had stopped for one of them) other goals disallowed. Only Jan will know why he didn't start Perry with one of the youngsters, who knows, maybe he couldn’t choose between them or maybe he wanted them both to get some experience quickly.

The problem with our defence is that I really don't see how we can improve, especially for the next 6 games. Svensson was missing yesterday and rumours our that he might not play again, Thomas is injured and personally I don't think hes a great option anyway (better than nothing but only just) and now Ollie will be missing for at least 3 games. This leaves Perry and Cork as our only recognised centre backs, with an inexperience right back (although I thought his crossing today was exceptional and didn't have too bad a game (if you ignore the first goal).

Balls in the box seem to be our weak point, Kelvin doesn’t come to claim many, but our defence seem to shy away from it and more often than not are second to the ball.

Holmes - not sure on the extent of the injury, but from what they said on TV he could be out for a while. This might mean there is room for Skacel and Surman to both play on the left, but I thought Holmes has been very good since he arrived.

So in summary, it’s going to be hard but - COME ON YOU SAINTS

[Saint Martini]

I think people are overreacting a bit. Yes we lost and quite emphatically, but there were quite a few reasons besides the quality of our team that led to this result. Although starting off with a goal within 40 seconds is entirely our own fault We had a red card that in my opinion didn't have to be red (I just watched it on Saints TV and if that's red then Delaneys challenge on Scheiderlin later in the match is red as well) and even after the red card we managed to play OK although we did need Davis to save the day a few times (but that's what happens with a man down, holes appear in your defence). The second half I thought we were the better team and had the better chances and took our goal very well. Then they score the most obvious offside goal in ages and even after that we were the better team until Scheiderlin went of (did he carry a knock from that Delaney challenge? He didn't seem to be running freely after that). We went for plan B then with an extra striker but that never really worked. Pekhart played OK but after Scheiderlin went we lost the midfield battle and they walked over us which let the defence to being pressured. This would have not happend if:
- we still had 11 players or;
- Scheirderlin had stayed on or;
- It would have been 1-1 at the time.
In the end I think we were unlucky in the first 60 mins and in the last 30 mins we were crap but with a reason.

Next match, I'd say Perry has to start (still a bit baffled why he didn't today) and we just need to continue with playing the way we did before Scheiderlin went off.

[saintjay77]

A very good summary and something I really have an issue is the piece I have put in bold.

IMHO the decision to go with two rookies at centre half away from home was wrong. If we are going to blood players, then at least try and pair them up with an experienced player.

Additionally, try and do it home where the youngster might fel a bit more comfortable and also where the opposition might only play with one up front.

JP was very naive today and IMHO it cost us.

You serious? With Our home support?

IIn a normal situation I would agree with you but with our home support as it often is I would have thought there is a lot less pressure on younger players when playing awayofrom SMS. Our fans are far too quick to Boo and jeer at a team, that although might not be doing all the right things, they are trying bloody hard to produce some good football.

Jan needs to sort out the defence and I dont mean just the back 4!!!! When we attacked QPR got numbers behind the ball and cut down our space which often meant we didnt get that many clear cut chances. When QPR attacked they often carved us wide open because the people who tracked back left spaces all over the place and the defenders were pulled out of position. The defensive issue is a whole team issue and is allot bigger task than blameing Olly for being a rookie or having no experience.

I can wright off the last 2 goals because we were trying to get back in the game and with 10 men we were bound to leave more gaps. Olly making a tackle in the RB position just shows where we were leaving gaps. He was unlucky to get the red IMO although I can see how the ref felt it was warented. But how many times did QPR cause us problems from that position? QPR's midfield had the time and space to play the ball down the channel and into lots of space. Our defending needs to come from our midfield coming back and getting into the right positions to try to limit this from happening.

Also we have Dyer who has pace to burn but cant get into these positions at the other end of the pitch? I know he was playing most of the time on the left and his left foot is as much good as a 50 pence piece. But IMO he is the one player that doesnt have the control to have the ball played to his feet. Give him something to run onto and he could be utterly fantastic for us. He is a simple player that needs simple tactics. I believe Morgan can put the ball anywhere in the park within a few feet so a 30 yard pass towards the corner flag would give dyer about 15 yards of space to beat there defence. This would drag the opostions defence out of position and create the space needed for our flare players in the middle.

In all these problems can be sorted out and with the squad available. We have the skill we just lack the execution.

[saintjay77]

From watching today’s game you can take positives from it, but you could also get very worried as well.

Good Points:

Going forward we looked quite good and played some great football, however sometimes our youngsters need to learn to shoot quicker. There were several times today where I thought they could take a shot but held on to it to look for a pass out wide or to someone running through. We aren’t going to score many goals if we don’t shoot.

Kelvin played brilliantly; I don't really blame him for the first goal as he would have been wrong footed being nearer the front post, not leaving him much time to get out.

Adam Lallana was brilliant, for a youngster he has come on leaps and bounds and that goal was class

Bad Points:

Whoever thought it wasn't a sending off really needs to look at the replay and change their minds. For me it was clear-cut. Annoyingly he should never have thrown himself in like that as he could have kept the player and the ball in the corner.

Defence Defence Defence - We really were bad at the back today, it could have been a lot worse, but Kelvin made some amazing saves and we still lost 4:1. I know the second shouldn’t have been a goal and some people will say (including our manager) that changed the game and gave QPR the advantage, but the warning signs were there already. Remember they had 2 (probably only 1 because Kelvin had stopped for one of them) other goals disallowed. Only Jan will know why he didn't start Perry with one of the youngsters, who knows, maybe he couldn’t choose between them or maybe he wanted them both to get some experience quickly.

The problem with our defence is that I really don't see how we can improve, especially for the next 6 games. Svensson was missing yesterday and rumours our that he might not play again, Thomas is injured and personally I don't think hes a great option anyway (better than nothing but only just) and now Ollie will be missing for at least 3 games. This leaves Perry and Cork as our only recognised centre backs, with an inexperience right back (although I thought his crossing today was exceptional and didn't have too bad a game (if you ignore the first goal).

Balls in the box seem to be our weak point, Kelvin doesn’t come to claim many, but our defence seem to shy away from it and more often than not are second to the ball.

Holmes - not sure on the extent of the injury, but from what they said on TV he could be out for a while. This might mean there is room for Skacel and Surman to both play on the left, but I thought Holmes has been very good since he arrived.

So in summary, it’s going to be hard but - COME ON YOU SAINTS


TBF I have had the benifit of the replay and he missed the ball by the smallest of margins. Had he made contact the ref would have done nothing but awarded a throw in or corner.

The speed he ran in at made me think even before he slid in that he was on a man hunt rather than going for the ball but in the end I thought it was a fair tackle that was mistimed. Yellow card for not making contact with the ball and a word in his ear to make sure he keeps his head would have been more that satisfactory IMO.

[CitySaint]

Why on earth should i pay £75 (3 tickets) to watch that. It's f*cking embaressing, the picture of Lowe's face in a nice cosy directors box rubs the salt in the wound as well. I've tried to be positive but it's starting to look very concerning.

[Scummer]

The picture of Lowe's face in a nice cosy directors box rubs the salt in the wound as well.

Who was Lowe sitting next to? Was that David Jones?

[Saint Billy]

I think the side we have has some potential, but I also think the coach is getting it seriously wrong with selection and he is worryingly showing some inexperience at this level.

Why Perry never started I do not know. McGoldrick is just not good enough yet to play the lone striker especially when you have John on the bench. How many did John score last season!. Skacel not in the side, well perhaps there is issues we know nothing about, but it now must be time to bring him back, we cannot afford to have a guy of that calibre doing nothing for the side especially if Holmes is out for a while. Gillet also concerns me so why not have Dyer and Skacel both in midfield.

[derry]

We knew Thomas has an injury history, we knew Killer would be touch and go, we knew Skacel was ****ed off and we must have known Perry was getting on a bit.

So having known all that then maybe we should have thought about bringing in some other wise old heads who can help the youngsters in these tough matches.

We may be skint, but there are players out there who would fit the bill and who would not have broken the bank (free transfers and an average wage).

We didn't because the "revolutionary new coaching set up" believed the youngsters could hack it.


Who?

[derry]

Why is it 'pie in the sky'? We have some who the club have tried to force out and whilst they are not our saviours they could perform a stop-gap where we need it - especially if they are to remain on the books for the immediate future. The loan window will also give us access to these type of players. We might not want the extra burden of their wages but I'm sure we don't want to be in the bottom 3 come the end of the season either.

Why was Wooton not at centre-half today? On the radio a couple of weeks ago Nicky Banger was saying he couldn't understand why Wooton was being touted as a midfielder as he played every game at Plymouth (when Banger was there) as a centre-half. There were plenty of options for midfielders but the bare bones at the back.

Those banging on about experience are ignoring the fact, that most of the older players left on the books, were, except for John pretty ineffectve, or disinterested, or just hopeless.

Now they are being put forward as the experience that can improve the team. There is no way these players with the exception of Svennson/Perry/Wooton/John would help and they are already in the squad.

It would be better if those who are banging on about wise old heads, experienced players, actually named those available and affordable, who would enhance the team, supposing of course they know we have the money to bring them in.

[Whitey Grandad]

Who?
Lucketti? Bennett?

[derry]

Right - thats that then - sorted....!!!!

Just what I thought. Right!!!!!!!!!!!

[derry]

Lucketti? Bennett?

Lucketti was transferred in the summer, Bennet is on loan at Brentford until January. Next.

[Whitey Grandad]

Lucketti was transferred in the summer, Bennet is on loan at Brentford until January. Next.
Precisely! That means that they were both available and might have come here were it not for this ridiculous obsession with 'yoof'.

[Wes Tender]

Lucketti was transferred in the summer, Bennet is on loan at Brentford until January. Next.

So you don't disagree that there needs to be a better balance between the youngsters and the older players; you are merely asking for candidates to be named. In the same way that we are still attempting to offload a couple of our players, there are undoubtedly other clubs who have players surplus to their requirements too.

[derry]

Precisely! That means that they were both available and might have come here were it not for this ridiculous obsession with 'yoof'.

As I remember it we were trying to offload the high earners at the time. In any event Lucketti went early in the window and Bennett was just behind him.

Bennett has little experience, except a few games with us and needs a strong player alongside. How could you possibly put him forward as the experienced old head to improve the team. He played his first league game v Crystal Palace, what a disaster that was.

I think when push comes to shove what we have is a young team and no money to change it. I suggest people get used to the fact this season is going to be a roller coaster.

[OldNick]

As I remember it we were trying to offload the high earners at the time. In any event Lucketti went early in the window and Bennett was just behind him.

Bennett has little experience, except a few games with us and needs a strong player alongside. How could you possibly put him forward as the experienced old head to improve the team. He played his first league game v Crystal Palace, what a disaster that was.

I think when push comes to shove what we have is a young team and no money to change it. I suggest people get used to the fact this season is going to be a roller coaster. 100% correc=t IMO although my approval may not help Derry

[Legod Second Coming]

Precisely! That means that they were both available and might have come here were it not for this ridiculous obsession with 'yoof'.

In my view if you're good enough, you're old enough. Nothing to do with age. It should be about ability.

Do we have too much 'youth' in our team, or simply lack sufficient ability?

Are we being undone by seasoned pros? Or simply being undone by better talent?

I still dispute totally the idea we are not strong enough or somehow lightweight. We controlled long periods of yesterday's game, weren't ever muscled off the ball but were struggling to deal with Delaney and Cook's width - something that most teams struggle with.

What we lack is organisaton at the back - that much is abundantly evident. Whether that needs old heads or better drills, I think is open to significant debate.

What I do know for asbolute certain is that we were no better organised at the back last year with a number of affordable experienced players.

[derry]

So you don't disagree that there needs to be a better balance between the youngsters and the older players; you are merely asking for candidates to be named. In the same way that we are still attempting to offload a couple of our players, there are undoubtedly other clubs who have players surplus to their requirements too.

Trouble is we can't offload them or sell them. Of course I would welcome proper experienced footballers to strengthen the team.

I don't know who they are, whether they are available and affordable, and I suggest neither does anyone else.

[Wes Tender]

I think when push comes to shove what we have is a young team and no money to change it. I suggest people get used to the fact this season is going to be a roller coaster.

I think that we might be better off if we heed the lessons of this last match and attempt to put out a team with a better balance between youth and experience. If we do not have cover amongst our existing squad with experience, then experienced defenders will be the number one priority with loans.

If we do not learn from this major coaching lapse and put in other youngsters to replace those youngsters injured or suspended, it won't be a rollercoaster, as that infers that there are ups as well as downs.

[derry]

100% correc=t IMO although my approval may not help Derry

No problem with you Nick, or Kelvin Davis as his distribution has improved, shows he's trying, maybe he could be more positive in the box especially with catchable crosses. I always rated him as a good shotstopper, one of the best. I just felt that wasn't enough on it's own.

[VectisSaint]

Lucketti? Bennett?
How can you possibly claim Bennett was either an old head or experienced? He is neither. Was probably the worst player ever to pull on a Saints shirt in his first game (and no I am not forgetting Ali Dia). Came on and looked OK when playing alongside an experienced CB. Bennett was certainly not the person we needed. Lucketti may have been a different kettle of fish.

But the real answer to "Who?" which Derry initially posed, was Gregory Vignal. He fitted the criteria of being experienced and young and in the latter half of last season was beginning to look class. Whats more he proved more than capable in dead ball situations. We should have kept Greg, thus allowing Drew to play in MF (probably instead of Gillett who is lightweight). With Spiderman and the other new Frenchy as well he would probably have fitted well.

[derry]

I think that we might be better off if we heed the lessons of this last match and attempt to put out a team with a better balance between youth and experience. If we do not have cover amongst our existing squad with experience, then experienced defenders will be the number one priority with loans.

If we do not learn from this major coaching lapse and put in other youngsters to replace those youngsters injured or suspended, it won't be a rollercoaster, as that infers that there are ups as well as downs.

I don't have a crystal ball, however I think this team as it is, will not be relegated. If we don't have the money and can't offload to generate any, we aren't going to be able to change much.

Skacel could help but only if he wants to.

[derry]

How can you possibly claim Bennett was either an old head or experienced? He is neither. Was probably the worst player ever to pull on a Saints shirt in his first game (and no I am not forgetting Ali Dia). Came on and looked OK when playing alongside an experienced CB. Bennett was certainly not the person we needed. Lucketti may have been a different kettle of fish.

But the real answer to "Who?" which Derry initially posed, was Gregory Vignal. He fitted the criteria of being experienced and young and in the latter half of last season was beginning to look class. Whats more he proved more than capable in dead ball situations. We should have kept Greg, thus allowing Drew to play in MF (probably instead of Gillett who is lightweight). With Spiderman and the other new Frenchy as well he would probably have fitted well.

I suspect he was on high wages, I liked him but I think he is just not affordable.

[Scummer]

I don't have a crystal ball, however I think this team as it is, will not be relegated.

I wish I had your confidence. This must be one of our worst ever starts to a season.

As time goes by, we pick up more injuries, and our players start to get fatigued as a result of never playing more than about 20 games a season before, it could be pretty ugly.

[derry]

I think that "affordable" is the key to any player being brought in.

[Whitey Grandad]

How can you possibly claim Bennett was either an old head or experienced? He is neither. Was probably the worst player ever to pull on a Saints shirt in his first game (and no I am not forgetting Ali Dia). Came on and looked OK when playing alongside an experienced CB. Bennett was certainly not the person we needed. Lucketti may have been a different kettle of fish.

But the real answer to "Who?" which Derry initially posed, was Gregory Vignal. He fitted the criteria of being experienced and young and in the latter half of last season was beginning to look class. Whats more he proved more than capable in dead ball situations. We should have kept Greg, thus allowing Drew to play in MF (probably instead of Gillett who is lightweight). With Spiderman and the other new Frenchy as well he would probably have fitted well.
I just plucked two names out of the air to illustrate the point that there are players available who have the experience, whatever their age, that is missing from our defence. All three players discussed here have spent some time at the club and IMO would be better than what we have at the moment.

'Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of experience comes from bad judgment'

[derry]

I wish I had your confidence. This must be one of our worst ever starts to a season.

As time goes by, we pick up more injuries, and our players start to get fatigued as a result of never playing more than about 20 games a season before, it could be pretty ugly.

Like I said, I haven't got a crystal ball, I haven't got any experience of assessing fatigue, and I'm not crossing bridges before we come to them.

Cardiff, Birmingham and QPR were probably defeats whatever team we put out, whilst a defeat to Blackpool was a setback. 5 matches into the season is not the time to throw the baby out with the bathwater. In any event we have no means of changing things and will have to, as always, wait and see.

[Wes Tender]

During the past couple of years, there were occasions when we were firing in the goals for fun, having the highest number of on target strikes in the division, but letting in goals by the bucketful at the other end. Burley made some adjustments which should have been designed to tighten up at the back, but for some reason although we did achieve that, we stopped firing on all cylinders up front.

My recollection is that although Bennett had a nightmare start, when he teamed up with Davies, the defence was the best it had been since Killer and Claus were a fixture. Unfortunately Bennett then moved on from his loan spell and Davies was out injured and what replaced them was nowhere as good. The next CB teaming that showed some real promise and made us pretty tight at the back was the Lucketti/Perry one, especially when there was Vignal at LB and Wright at RB.

The trouble we will have is that Killer might not be able to continue, or if he does he may be sporadic. The same goes for Perry. The youngsters need a decent run in an established partnership with an older head to gain experience, but at the moment it seems hard to envisage which partnership might establish itself from several games. If there is constant change at the back, it will lead to disruption.

I agree that it would have been good to still have Vignal available at LB and indeed Scacel could also do a decent job if his mental attitude was positive and receptive. And I never thought that I'd say it, but I'd rather have Jermain Wright at RB than young James.

[derry]

I just plucked two names out of the air to illustrate the point that there are players available who have the experience, whatever their age, that is missing from our defence. All three players discussed here have spent some time at the club and IMO would be better than what we have at the moment.

'Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of experience comes from bad judgment'

But you plucked two names out of the hat that are not available, One suitable, one not. That's the problem, affordable and available. We don't have any money and are still paying high earners. Davis, BWP, Euell, Thomas, Skacel, and John.

[OldNick]

During the past couple of years, there were occasions when we were firing in the goals for fun, having the highest number of on target strikes in the division, but letting in goals by the bucketful at the other end. Burley made some adjustments which should have been designed to tighten up at the back, but for some reason although we did achieve that, we stopped firing on all cylinders up front.

My recollection is that although Bennett had a nightmare start, when he teamed up with Davies, the defence was the best it had been since Killer and Claus were a fixture. Unfortunately Bennett then moved on from his loan spell and Davies was out injured and what replaced them was nowhere as good. The next CB teaming that showed some real promise and made us pretty tight at the back was the Lucketti/Perry one, especially when there was Vignal at LB and Wright at RB.

The trouble we will have is that Killer might not be able to continue, or if he does he may be sporadic. The same goes for Perry. The youngsters need a decent run in an established partnership with an older head to gain experience, but at the moment it seems hard to envisage which partnership might establish itself from several games. If there is constant change at the back, it will lead to disruption.

I agree that it would have been good to still have Vignal available at LB and indeed Scacel could also do a decent job if his mental attitude was positive and receptive. And I never thought that I'd say it, but I'd rather have Jermain Wright at RB than young James.All quite sensible but it would probably add 40k a week to the wage bill

[Whitey Grandad]

During the past couple of years, there were occasions when we were firing in the goals for fun, having the highest number of on target strikes in the division, but letting in goals by the bucketful at the other end. Burley made some adjustments which should have been designed to tighten up at the back, but for some reason although we did achieve that, we stopped firing on all cylinders up front.

My recollection is that although Bennett had a nightmare start, when he teamed up with Davies, the defence was the best it had been since Killer and Claus were a fixture. Unfortunately Bennett then moved on from his loan spell and Davies was out injured and what replaced them was nowhere as good. The next CB teaming that showed some real promise and made us pretty tight at the back was the Lucketti/Perry one, especially when there was Vignal at LB and Wright at RB.

The trouble we will have is that Killer might not be able to continue, or if he does he may be sporadic. The same goes for Perry. The youngsters need a decent run in an established partnership with an older head to gain experience, but at the moment it seems hard to envisage which partnership might establish itself from several games. If there is constant change at the back, it will lead to disruption.

I agree that it would have been good to still have Vignal available at LB and indeed Scacel could also do a decent job if his mental attitude was positive and receptive. And I never thought that I'd say it, but I'd rather have Jermain Wright at RB than young James.
That seems a pretty fair summmary, to me.

[Legod Second Coming]

During the past couple of years, there were occasions when we were firing in the goals for fun, having the highest number of on target strikes in the division, but letting in goals by the bucketful at the other end. Burley made some adjustments which should have been designed to tighten up at the back, but for some reason although we did achieve that, we stopped firing on all cylinders up front.

My recollection is that although Bennett had a nightmare start, when he teamed up with Davies, the defence was the best it had been since Killer and Claus were a fixture. Unfortunately Bennett then moved on from his loan spell and Davies was out injured and what replaced them was nowhere as good. The next CB teaming that showed some real promise and made us pretty tight at the back was the Lucketti/Perry one, especially when there was Vignal at LB and Wright at RB.

The trouble we will have is that Killer might not be able to continue, or if he does he may be sporadic. The same goes for Perry. The youngsters need a decent run in an established partnership with an older head to gain experience, but at the moment it seems hard to envisage which partnership might establish itself from several games. If there is constant change at the back, it will lead to disruption.

I agree that it would have been good to still have Vignal available at LB and indeed Scacel could also do a decent job if his mental attitude was positive and receptive. And I never thought that I'd say it, but I'd rather have Jermain Wright at RB than young James.


And until that point, you had a persuasive argument...

Wright was at best pedestrian and with no capacity to use the ball wisely. I liked and admired his attitude immensely, but not his ability.

He would be as much use in this team as a propellor on Concorde.

There are experienced players who might fit our methods, he ain't one.

[derry]

During the past couple of years, there were occasions when we were firing in the goals for fun, having the highest number of on target strikes in the division, but letting in goals by the bucketful at the other end. Burley made some adjustments which should have been designed to tighten up at the back, but for some reason although we did achieve that, we stopped firing on all cylinders up front.

My recollection is that although Bennett had a nightmare start, when he teamed up with Davies, the defence was the best it had been since Killer and Claus were a fixture. Unfortunately Bennett then moved on from his loan spell and Davies was out injured and what replaced them was nowhere as good. The next CB teaming that showed some real promise and made us pretty tight at the back was the Lucketti/Perry one, especially when there was Vignal at LB and Wright at RB.

The trouble we will have is that Killer might not be able to continue, or if he does he may be sporadic. The same goes for Perry. The youngsters need a decent run in an established partnership with an older head to gain experience, but at the moment it seems hard to envisage which partnership might establish itself from several games. If there is constant change at the back, it will lead to disruption.

I agree that it would have been good to still have Vignal available at LB and indeed Scacel could also do a decent job if his mental attitude was positive and receptive. And I never thought that I'd say it, but I'd rather have Jermain Wright at RB than young James.

The trouble is it's now we are talking about, your recollections are spot on but we have to do the best we can with the current players

I think Lancashire could do a job for us alongside Perry.

[Whitey Grandad]

And until that point, you had a persuasive argument...

Wright was at best pedestrian and with no capacity to use the ball wisely. I liked and admired his attitude immensely, but not his ability.

He would be as much use in this team as a propellor on Concorde.

There are experienced players who might fit our methods, he ain't one.
Maybe not, and I don't suggest for one minute that we should have him back, but on the central issue: 'better than James'?

[Scummer]

And until that point, you had a persuasive argument...

Wright was at best pedestrian and with no capacity to use the ball wisely. I liked and admired his attitude immensely, but not his ability.

He would be as much use in this team as a propellor on Concorde.

There are experienced players who might fit our methods, he ain't one.

Sorry, but you seem to have swallowed a bucketful of spin. I must be watching different matches, as I haven't seen our full backs flying forward and interchanging at will with other players in the team. I've seen them missing tackles, ushering the opposition towards our goal, or simply going missing altogether.

Until we start getting the basics right, we'll continue to get beat week in week out.

[Legod Second Coming]

Maybe not, and I don't suggest for one minute that we should have him back, but on the central issue: 'better than James'?


Not in my book, depends what you want from a player. I think you could call James culpable for the free kick which led to their off-side goal. Other than that, he gave 100% and struggled against Lee Cook - arguably one of the best wingers in the division.

Cook would have left Wright for dead - every time.

[Legod Second Coming]

Sorry, but you seem to have swallowed a bucketful of spin. I must be watching different matches, as I haven't seen our full backs flying forward and interchanging at will with other players in the team. I've seen them missing tackles, ushering the opposition towards our goal, or simply going missing altogether.

Until we start getting the basics right, we'll continue to get beat week in week out.

I didn't say they were doing anything of the sort yesterday. But we need full-backs who look up and use the ball, not a return to the dark days of watching Wright get skinned by one-legged wingers with arthritis thanks...

[Whitey Grandad]

Not in my book, depends what you want from a player. I think you could call James culpable for the free kick which led to their off-side goal. Other than that, he gave 100% and struggled against Lee Cook - arguably one of the best wingers in the division.

Cook would have left Wright for dead - every time.
Where was James for their first goal?

[derry]

All very interesting, but how do the club improve the team performance using the players we have. Skacel if he gives 100%- yes, Euell-injured, Thomas-injured, Wooton, Perry, Svennson, John, Davis are in the frame, Dyer is close to starting, then there is BWP. There appears little room for manoeuvre.

[Saint Martini]

Where was James for their first goal?

Appealing to the ref for a foul (which it wasn't). If he had gone for the ball instead he might have prevented the goal.

[Legod Second Coming]

Where was James for their first goal?

Not marking Blackstock. Was that the role he was given? By whomever was 'supposed' to be organising the defence??

I have been to football games where I've blamed the person whom I think is at fault, only to have professionals tell me I'm wrong because so and so had been allocated to do something else.

Yes, looked to me like James was at fault, but no more so than the entire defence who were simply not well drilled enough to deal with a set-piece.

[Whitey Grandad]

Appealing to the ref for a foul (which it wasn't). If he had gone for the ball instead he might have prevented the goal.
Thanks, all I saw at the time was a big empty space where the left back should have been. What I find hard to understand is how Backstock could move 6 yards in the time it took our lot to move 6 inches. He was never that sharp when he played for us.

[Ziggy]

I've just got back from Spain where I watched it in a bar.

Sitting by the door as I walked in were a group of hags celebrating a 40th birthday of the oldest looking 40-year-old I've ever seen. I settled down at one nil and you've guessed it, the hags were from Pompey. I spent the whole game listening to their cackle followed by renditions on "Play up Pompey" and "Scummers".

What an absolute nightmare of an afternoon.

[alpine_saint]

I've just got back from Spain where I watched it in a bar.

Sitting by the door as I walked in were a group of hags celebrating a 40th birthday of the oldest looking 40-year-old I've ever seen. I settled down at one nil and you've guessed it, the hags were from Pompey. I spent the whole game listening to their cackle followed by renditions on "Play up Pompey" and "Scummers".

What an absolute nightmare of an afternoon.

Please tell me you didnt sh.ag her.......

[alpine_saint]

Wow, sh.ag is in the swear checker.

What if I want to buy a nice ****-pile carpet ??

[Ziggy]

No I didn't!

[OldNick]

Wow, sh.ag is in the swear checker.

What if I want to buy a nice ****-pile carpet ??and that old **** tobacco

[Wes Tender]

Also going on general impressions along the lines of which defensive combinations worked well for us, I recall that there were managers who came in to take charge of a team where the defence leaked goals and seemingly almost instantly that defence was transformed into one of the meanest defences in that division. The greatest example I can think of was George Graham taking over at Leeds. What is the ingredient that ensures these improvements? Is it just that the players lacked discipline, or knowledge, technique or ability? That certain things were worked on until they became second nature? That there was a lack of concentration or motivation until those shortcomings were addressed?

Why wasn't there an older head at the centre of defence to steady the youngsters? Why weren't rival strikers man-marked? Why do we concede so many goals to set pieces? Why did we not have cover for the far post where there were acres of space to be exploited? Surely this stuff is elementary and I would expect a coach who has played as a top defender at World Cup final level to be able to put these things right.

[um pahars]

Those banging on about experience are ignoring the fact, that most of the older players left on the books, were, except for John pretty ineffectve, or disinterested, or just hopeless.

Now they are being put forward as the experience that can improve the team. There is no way these players with the exception of Svennson/Perry/Wooton/John would help and they are already in the squad.

It would be better if those who are banging on about wise old heads, experienced players, actually named those available and affordable, who would enhance the team, supposing of course they know we have the money to bring them in.

So are you seriously saying that the players we got in and the way we have decided to set out our stall is the only route that a club like ours can follow?

If so, then I have to wonder why football is supposed to be that hard if there is really only one way of doing something and there are no alternatives whatsoever.:smt102

Wotton is an example of someone who may not be a bad buy. Someone who has been around a while, happy to leave his foot in. Rather than relying on the youth, maybe we should have hunted around for other seasoned veterans of this division (or even from the lower reaches) who could provide some steel, nous and calmness to our youngsters.

Just as our financial position may well have limited our choices on the managerial front (and there were choices there), so will our predicament limit our player dealings.

However, it will limit them, not rule out every potential alternative out there.

IMHO the youth have their part to play, but they need to be augmented by seasoned pros. Now these may be the disillusioned ones on our books who the manager needs to motivate or these need to be others brought in o frees and loans.

[Matt SFC]

This is going to be a season of struggle but I do believe we will pull through and end up safe mid-table. Would really help if we had natural full backs. Surman is being wasted there as well.

[OldNick]

So are you seriously saying that the players we got in and the way we have decided to set out our stall is the only route that a club like ours can follow?

If so, then I have to wonder why football is supposed to be that hard if there is really only one way of doing something and there are no alternatives whatsoever.:smt102

Wotton is an example of someone who may not be a bad buy. Someone who has been around a while, happy to leave his foot in. Rather than relying on the youth, maybe we should have hunted around for other seasoned veterans of this division (or even from the lower reaches) who could provide some steel, nous and calmness to our youngsters.

Just as our financial position may well have limited our choices on the managerial front (and there were choices there), so will our predicament limit our player dealings.

However, it will limit them, not rule out every potential alternative out there.

IMHO the youth have their part to play, but they need to be augmented by seasoned pros. Now these may be the disillusioned ones on our books who the manager needs to motivate or these need to be others brought in o frees and loans.I can see what you are getting at regarding other Wottons, especially if we could get some c/bs in that mould.It all bolis down to how much each would cost us, but to have a couple more would be good.I myself was surprised that Euell was not mixed into the squad especially as he got stuck in.

[benjii]

I can see what you are getting at regarding other Wottons, especially if we could get some c/bs in that mould.It all bolis down to how much each would cost us, but to have a couple more would be good.I myself was surprised that Euell was not mixed into the squad especially as he got stuck in.

I think he might have been back in by now, or in the squad at least, if he hadn't got injured.

By all accounts he seemed to be really warming to a "mentoring" role in the reserves.

[saintjinksie]

I hate Patrick Ageymang.

me too, i would have won 20 quid if he hadnt scored.... ffs

[Delmary]

I am prepared to give it time. We have very little alternative imo.

Depressing I agree but this thread was always going to be a knee jerk. However we are very short of experienced leadership to help the kids out.Agree.

Nevertheless, we should of signed more players like Wotton or good lower league pros over the summer. Gambling £1M+ (Transfer and signing on fees) on unproven youngsters was a poor strategy by Lowe and Wilde. I hope we can find a way out of this mess.

[derry]

So are you seriously saying that the players we got in and the way we have decided to set out our stall is the only route that a club like ours can follow?

If so, then I have to wonder why football is supposed to be that hard if there is really only one way of doing something and there are no alternatives whatsoever.:smt102

Wotton is an example of someone who may not be a bad buy. Someone who has been around a while, happy to leave his foot in. Rather than relying on the youth, maybe we should have hunted around for other seasoned veterans of this division (or even from the lower reaches) who could provide some steel, nous and calmness to our youngsters.

Just as our financial position may well have limited our choices on the managerial front (and there were choices there), so will our predicament limit our player dealings.

However, it will limit them, not rule out every potential alternative out there.

IMHO the youth have their part to play, but they need to be augmented by seasoned pros. Now these may be the disillusioned ones on our books who the manager needs to motivate or these need to be others brought in o frees and loans.

What I am saying, and of course there are other ways of building a team, is that, this is what we have got, talking of alternatives, when clearly the management aren't going to apply an alternative, is for me impractical.

Unless we swop or sell players we don't seem to be in any position to change direction, even if the management wanted to , which they clearly don't. It appears to me they are on a mission to prove the youth theory.

For me it's doing the best with the existing staff.

[SinCity555]

You're an idiot..... Your Comment is up there with the worst i've ever read on this Forum!!!>......Drop Lallana, he is a different league to the rest of players at the moments. Absolutely quality!!!

[SinCity555]

You're an idiot..... Your Comment is up there with the worst i've ever read on this Forum!!!>......Drop Lallana, he is a different league to the rest of players at the moments. Absolutely quality!!!
You're an idiot..... Your Comment is up there with the worst i've ever read on this Forum!!!>......Drop Lallana, he is a different league to the rest of players at the moments. Absolutely quality!!!