Saints fans jailed

[Thedelldays]

why?

have seen it plenty of times down here in sunny plymouth for a start..and plymouth have had a hoolie element over the years more so than saints..

[dune]

3/ Their sentances were way over the top- again using 12 months for shouting aggresively as an stand out example

I was talking to a policeman today who helps to police games at the Walkers Stadium and told him of the sentences and the rough details of what happened and like me he welcomed them. Like me he firmly believes that custodials such as these will serve as a detterent.

[Turkish]

have seen it plenty of times down here in sunny plymouth for a start..and plymouth have had a hoolie element over the years more so than saints..

I agree mate, but if there is nothing to attack then no attack can take place. There is a better chance of confrontation being avoided if there is no one to confront.

[dune]

Don't forget Dune is an expert on feral yobs as he goes on National Front marches.

How you've got the gaul to preach given your attitude towards the disabled is very rich.

[Thedelldays]

I agree mate, but if there is nothing to attack then no attack can take place. There is a better chance of confrontation being avoided if there is no one to confront.


maybe..but it is about personal reponsibility.....they erected a fuking metal wall ffs

[Turkish]

I was talking to a policeman today who helps to police games at the Walkers Stadium and told him of the sentences and the rough details of what happened and like me he welcomed them. Like me he firmly believes that custodials such as these will serve as a detterent.

What else would you expect a copper to say? I am still waiting to hear what you said to the police when they stopped you mingling with Pompey fans in 2004. Come on, whats the hold up?

[View From The Top]

maybe..but it is about personal reponsibility.....they erected a fuking metal wall ffs

I don't think that's the debate Jamie. The debate is whether the time actually fits the crime and IF the crimes in themselves could have been curtailed with better policing.

[dune]

Nothing of the sort Dune. So come on then, did you express your outrage to the boys in blue when you weren't allowed to leave Fratton Park in 2004? Or where you glad they kept you in the ground and cleared the Pomey fans away?

I wasn't bothered what they did because I was on the supporters coach.

[Turkish]

I wasn't bothered what they did because I was on the supporters coach.

But you were held in the ground for over an hour Dune, was it not raining that day? The terrace was open back then, no where to cover from the rain. You must have been furious to have been made to stand in the rain all that time and not allowed to mingle with the Pompey fans outside? Really they should have let you out and face the baying mob shouldn't they, stood back and let they get on with it, rather than keeping you in Fratton Park when they knew full well there was a good chance of serious disorder outside the ground.

[dune]

I agree mate, but if there is nothing to attack then no attack can take place. There is a better chance of confrontation being avoided if there is no one to confront.

And if the delinquents can't find some rival yobs, but see some innocent rival fans, they'll attack them. That is why it was sensible to allow the Pompey fans out at the same time as us.

[dune]

But you were held in the ground for over an hour Dune, was it not raining that day? The terrace was open back then, no where to cover from the rain. You must have been furious to have been made to stand in the rain all that time and not allowed to mingle with the Pompey fans outside? Really they should have let you out and face the baying mob shouldn't they, stood back and let they get on with it, rather than keeping you in Fratton Park when they knew full well there was a good chance of serious disorder outside the ground.

I can't remember if it was raining to be honest. In fact both the away games blur into one. I know for one of them it hailed.

[70's Mike]

And if the delinquents can't find some rival yobs, but see some innocent rival fans, they'll attack them. That is why it was sensible to allow the Pompey fans out at the same time as us.

You had a good case until that point

[BallBoy]

I could not be bothered to read all of the comments on this thread but the first couple of pages gave a pretty good idea of the general attitude. I rather suspect that if these sentences had been handed out to Pompey fans for the same offences then some of these comments would have been totally different. Pompey fans would probably have deserved such harsh sentences because........well they are Pompey fans.

I personally think that some of these sentences were probably on the harsh side but none of these people had to be there and none of them had to get involved. They could have walked away. The fact is that they wanted to be there and they wanted to make trouble and they knew that other innocent fans would be terrorised.

It is difficult to feel too much sympathy.

[CanadaSaint]

The point is Mr Ponty ( I will call you Mr, because you are a Moderator ) , it is pretty obvious by simply keeping them in, as happens with every single other hostile game in the country, that trouble could have been prevented.

Do you agree or not?

The police where either stupid, or it was a sting ( which also went wrong ).

Which one do you think it was?

I'm shocked and somewhat disgusted that this angle has not been pursued more relentlessly by the public or the media.

This isn't about some relatively minor offenders (this time, anyway) being harshly treated; as far as I'm concerned, every clear signal that this kind of behaviour won't be tolerated is welcome. It makes the message to the idiots very simple - stay the hell away from trouble.

What it IS about, in my view, is the fact that police irresponsibility could have endangered innocents. A lot of normal people, including kids, could have been hurt by the ridiculous decision to release the fans simultaneously, and someone needs to account for it.

[Turkish]

I can't remember if it was raining to be honest. In fact both the away games blur into one. I know for one of them it hailed.

I dont see how they could have really as one was a 0-1 defeat played out in awful conditions and the other was probably the most gutless performance by a saints side in my lifetime. Regardless of the team and the weather though, you must have been furious at being kept in for an hour or more, surely? But that aside, bearing in mind what happened after the 2004 game though, do you think keeping the saints fans in after the game was right or wrong? Should they have been kept in the ground, or should they have been let out into the riot that was going on in the streets outside?

[Turkish]

And if the delinquents can't find some rival yobs, but see some innocent rival fans, they'll attack them. That is why it was sensible to allow the Pompey fans out at the same time as us.

Sensible to let them out so rival innocent fans can be attacked? That is very senisble. Much more sensible than keeping innocents and 'yobs' in the ground until there is no one in the area to attack them.

[aintforever]

Releasing the fans at the same time was dumb. It's standard practice for away fans to be locked in at hostile grounds.

My guess is that it's something to do with the traffic because Northam rd is always closed after the game so I expect they want to get the away coaches back to the park and ride as quickly as possible.

[dune]

I dont see how they could have really as one was a 0-1 defeat played out in awful conditions and the other was probably the most gutless performance by a saints side in my lifetime. Regardless of the team and the weather though, you must have been furious at being kept in for an hour or more, surely? But that aside, bearing in mind what happened after the 2004 game though, do you think keeping the saints fans in after the game was right or wrong? Should they have been kept in the ground, or should they have been let out into the riot that was going on in the streets outside?

I believe the police took the right course of action at Portsmouth and the right course of action at Southampton. Both situations were different because of the locations. At St Marys the police sucessfully created exit routes for both sets of fans, at Fratton this was clearly not a logistical possibility.

[Turkish]

I believe the police took the right course of action at Portsmouth and the right course of action at Southampton. Both situations were different because of the locations. At St Marys the police sucessfully created exit routes for both sets of fans, at Fratton this was clearly not a logistical possibility.

Its nothing to do with exit routes though is it Dune. You said earlier why should yobs dictate when people leave matches. Regardless of the way they would leave the ground you said you think fans should be mingle together. In your view, it was not right to let them mingle together in 2004 when the police knew there could be trouble and there was, however, it was right to let them do it in 2010, when the police knew there could be trouble, and there was.

[View From The Top]

Its nothing to do with exit routes though is it Dune. You said earlier why should yobs dictate when people leave matches. Regardless of the way they would leave the ground you said you think fans should be mingle together. In your view, it was not right to let them mingle together in 2004 when the police knew there could be trouble and there was, however, it was right to let them do it in 2010, when the police knew there could be trouble, and there was.

He's not too bright, on a wind up and clearly wasn't at Fratton Park.

[dune]

Its nothing to do with exit routes though is it Dune. You said earlier why should yobs dictate when people leave matches. Regardless of the way they would leave the ground you said you think fans should be mingle together. In your view, it was not right to let them mingle together in 2004 when the police knew there could be trouble and there was, however, it was right to let them do it in 2010, when the police knew there could be trouble, and there was.

It has everything to do with safe exit routes. Those leaving the Itchen North (where most of the yobs were located) had to exit the stadium to the right and to reach the walkway bridge they had to walk all the way around the stadium. This meant that the Porstmouth fans had a clear exit route and a head start over the yobs. Compare that to Goldsmiths Avenue and due to the layout of Fratton park this route was required by both home and away fans.

[dune]

He's not too bright, on a wind up and clearly wasn't at Fratton Park.

I most certainly was at fratton park for both games.

[Turkish]

He's not too bright, on a wind up and clearly wasn't at Fratton Park.

and probably never been to a derby in his life despite claims not have missed one since 1996 and probably hardly ever goes to games, no one that goes regularly can be that clueless.

[Turkish]

It has everything to do with safe exit routes. Those leaving the Itchen North (where most of the yobs were located) had to exit the stadium to the right and to reach the walkway bridge they had to walk all the way around the stadium. This meant that the Porstmouth fans had a clear exit route and a head start over the yobs. Compare that to Goldsmiths Avenue and due to the layout of Fratton park this route was required by both home and away fans.

well no it doesn't because according to you, 'Yobs' should not dicatate when people leave football grounds. They should be allowed to mingle with other fans freely, although not it would seem in 2004. I dont see why 'yobs' should dictate at when people leave Fratton Park but they shouldn't dictate when they leave St Marys, regardless of exit routes, having head starts etc. By having exit routes in place sure this is allowing 'yobs' to dictate? And obviously with regard to your comment about where most of the 'yobs' sit, you know this do you? Where do you sit?

[dune]

and probably never been to a derby in his life despite claims not have missed one since 1996.

Well for the second game at fratton park (the relegation season) i moaned enough about the club charging me £1 to park at St Marys.

[saintjay77]

Releasing the fans at the same time was dumb. It's standard practice for away fans to be locked in at hostile grounds.

My guess is that it's something to do with the traffic because Northam rd is always closed after the game so I expect they want to get the away coaches back to the park and ride as quickly as possible.

Is it also standard practice to errect a friggin big fence/wall to keep rival fans apart?

Could it be that the OB thought they put the fence up so they could get the fans the hell outa there ASAP rather than anyone paying extra for the OB to hang around for the next hour getting rid of saints fans so the Poopy lot could get home saftly?

It would have probably been better to stagger the exits of fans but then there would have been no need for the fence.

[dune]

well no it doesn't because according to you, 'Yobs' should not dicatate when people leave football grounds. They should be allowed to mingle with other fans freely, although not it would seem in 2004. I dont see why 'yobs' should dictate at when people leave Fratton Park but they shouldn't dictate when they leave St Marys, regardless of exit routes, having head starts etc. By having exit routes in place sure this is allowing 'yobs' to dictate? And obviously with regard to your comment about where most of the 'yobs' sit, you know this do you? Where do you sit?

Yobs shouldn't dictate when normal fans leave a stadium, but at Fratton Park due to the exit routes and the fact that the yobs weren't sufficiently worried about custodial sentences, they did dictate. With the sentences given to the 12 Saints "fans" it sends out a message to the yobs and we shall see if it makes a difference.

[Turkish]

Yobs shouldn't dictate when normal fans leave a stadium, but at Fratton Park due to the exit routes and the fact that the yobs weren't sufficiently worried about custodial sentences, they did dictate. With the sentences given to the 12 Saints "fans" it sends out a message to the yobs and we shall see if it makes a difference.

That is an arguement for the future. At that time, at that place Feb 2010, you think Pompey fans should have been let out as you put it, 'to blend in with the dispersing crowd' also if saints fans looking for a ruck cant find any pompey 'yobs' then they can attack innocent fans, they were your words. At the time of 2004 no custodials had been handed out to Pompey fans, that came in the months after the game. The OB had no idea what might happen, so with no custodials to be aware of for the 'yobs' to worry about just the police to make the call on when to let the saints fans out they chose to keep them in, which in your view was the right decision. Which i agree with. So why, was it the right decison to let them out at the same time at St Marys? same circumstances.

[View From The Top]

That is an arguement for the future. At that time, at that place Feb 2010, you think Pompey fans should have been let out as you put it, 'to blend in with the dispersing crowd' also if saints fans looking for a ruck cant find any pompey 'yobs' then they can attack innocent fans, they were your words. At the time of 2004 no custodials had been handed out to Pompey fans, that came in the months after the game. The OB had no idea what might happen, so with no custodials to be aware of for the 'yobs' to worry about just the police to make the call on when to let the saints fans out they chose to keep them in, which in your view was the right decision. Which i agree with. So why, was it the right decison to let them out at the same time at St Marys? same circumstances.

Using his logic regarding sentencing acting as a deterrent the raft of custodials handed out to the skates after our 0-1 loss should have meant that we should have been let straight out after the later drubbing as we would have all rubbed along merrily.

I wonder why then we were kept if for ages? I wonder whether it could be to do with Dune talking out of his @rse again.

[saintjay77]

Using his logic regarding sentencing acting as a deterrent the raft of custodials handed out to the skates after our 0-1 loss should have meant that we should have been let straight out after the later drubbing as we would have all rubbed along merrily.

I wonder why then we were kept if for ages? I wonder whether it could be to do with Dune talking out of his @rse again.

Did they errect a frigging big fence/wall at Nottarf Krap?

[Turkish]

Did they errect a frigging big fence/wall at Nottarf Krap?

That doesn't matter, Dune thinks we should all mingle together merrily, holding hands and swapping shirts and scarves. Putting up fences is allowing yobs to dictate.

[View From The Top]

Did they errect a frigging big fence/wall at Nottarf Krap?

According to our resident nazi sympathiser's logic a wall was not necessary at pompey as the 30 odd jail sentences dished out after the 1-0 meant that we could have and should have all been let out at the same time as those sentences would have meant that at skates wouldn't want to get involved in any trouble.

Us scummers would have just melted into the crowd and there would have been not an iota of trouble, according to Stanley, oops, I mean Dune.

[dune]

That doesn't matter, Dune thinks we should all mingle together merrily, holding hands and swapping shirts and scarves. Putting up fences is allowing yobs to dictate.

Correct. You seem to be under the impression that football yobs are a part of football culture. In my old mans day him and his brothers used to watch Saints and Pompey.

[dune]

According to our resident nazi sympathiser's logic a wall was not necessary at pompey as the 30 odd jail sentences dished out after the 1-0 meant that we could have and should have all been let out at the same time as those sentences would have meant that at skates wouldn't want to get involved in any trouble.

Us scummers would have just melted into the crowd and there would have been not an iota of trouble, according to Stanley, oops, I mean Dune.

No. A wall or any other barricade was not possible at fratton park due to the exit locations and geography of the area.

[saintjay77]

That doesn't matter, Dune thinks we should all mingle together merrily, holding hands and swapping shirts and scarves. Putting up fences is allowing yobs to dictate.

Im not trying to get involved in the arguement between you and Dune as I think that has side tracked from the original debate.

The wall does matter in that the OB probably would have kept the poopy lot in had there not been the fence.

Will be interesting to see if they put a fence up next time (if there is a next time) we play poopy at SMS. I would have thought they think it was a success although blocking off the garage might be an added extra next time?

[Turkish]

Correct. You seem to be under the impression that football yobs are a part of football culture. In my old mans day him and his brothers used to watch Saints and Pompey.

i Dont think they are part of the culture but every club has an element, like it or not. Convincing yourself that rival fans will walk home together from local derbies as best mates doens't mean it is going to go away.

[Turkish]

Im not trying to get involved in the arguement between you and Dune as I think that has side tracked from the original debate.

The wall does matter in that the OB probably would have kept the poopy lot in had there not been the fence.

Will be interesting to see if they put a fence up next time (if there is a next time) we play poopy at SMS. I would have thought they think it was a success although blocking off the garage might be an added extra next time?

In that case thye'd also need to block off the side roads by the industral estates as fans were running up there to get at Pompey fans too. Or alternatively just use a bit of common sense and keep them in the ground until the areas directly surrounding SMS were clear.

[saintjay77]

In that case thye'd also need to block off the side roads by the industral estates as fans were running up there to get at Pompey fans too. Or alternatively just use a bit of common sense and keep them in the ground until the areas directly surrounding SMS were clear.

If they want to employ the fence strategy again they will no doubt have to improve it. Or like you say, scrap it and keep the blue few in.

It seems a bit daft that this element only really attaches its self to football though and surly in this day and age people need to grow up a bit and not behave like thugs to support a team. If harsh sentancing means rival crowds can mix more fluedly in years to come then we will probably look back and say its a good thing. If however the sentancing carrys on changing with the weather we will probably still be cursing the OB and the fact they dont have a clue.

[dune]

In that case thye'd also need to block off the side roads by the industral estates as fans were running up there to get at Pompey fans too. Or alternatively just use a bit of common sense and keep them in the ground until the areas directly surrounding SMS were clear.

As you are arguing in favour of segregation i.e holding fans in, would you be in favour of only allowing away fans to use supporters coaches? I'm not in favour of this personally as it would mean that the thugs are dictating how normal fans attend games.

[Turkish]

As you are arguing in favour of segregation i.e holding fans in, would you be in favour of only allowing away fans to use supporters coaches? I'm not in favour of this personally as it would mean that the thugs are dictating how normal fans attend games.

The Blackburn v Burnley game was ridiculous situation where a Blackurn fan who lived 2 miles from the Burnley ground would only be allowed in if he travelled on official club transport so he had to travel to Blackburn then back to Burnley on the club buses. I think the trains with a police escort worked well enough so far, there was minimal trouble before the game. It would limit the amount of flash points though as 1000 away fans being escorted through a city centre is alwasy going to be an invitation for some to cause trouble. Its not a question of thugs dictating, its a question of what is safest for the majority of fans, letting them all out together to mingle with each other is not it.

[hamster]

I just wonder if the police HAD kept the pompey fans in, whether some saints may have decided to go on the pitch to taunt them. Seeing them leave in a way gave the green light for everybody intent on causing (or even innocently watching) the flash points to head for Brittannia road where the police could better control the situation.

In the past there have been one or two occasions when the stewards etc have not been able to contain fans on the pitch. I really do think that letting all out together could have been the lesser of the two risk-wise, added to the fact that people from the Northam End could not get involved initially whereas within the stadium it would have been carnage with many more innocent people getting involved.

[Turkish]

I just wonder if the police HAD kept the pompey fans in, whether some saints may have decided to go on the pitch to taunt them. Seeing them leave in a way gave the green light for everybody intent on causing (or even innocently watching) the flash points to head for Brittannia road where the police could better control the situation.

In the past there have been one or two occasions when the stewards etc have not been able to contain fans on the pitch. I really do think that letting all out together could have been the lesser of the two risk-wise, added to the fact that people from the Northam End could not get involved initially whereas within the stadium it would have been carnage with many more innocent people getting involved.
wouldn't have happened, i am sure of that, in all the Saints v Pompey games when they have kept fans in they have never tried to get at them on the pitch. Unlike the other games, Burnley for example, there were a lot more police on duty. There was never a hint of trouble inside the ground anyway.

[harvey]

At the end of the day, no matter what anyone says, the punishment doesn't fit the crime........and that's it.

[Fan The Flames]

Are you implying that they were innocent?

No.

[bristolsaint29]

Tough titties they shouldn't be breaking the law, the end!

[Rowan Gorilla 5]

If all these simple folk that wish to indulge in violence at football games actually had some self-respect, respect for others, respect for property and respect for authority then this wouldn't have happened. Don't even begin to say that respect has to be earned, some does yes, but not all. Had these people actually had respect and responsibility instilled in them then they would not have done what they did. Unfortunately for the majority they did not and this is the problem with so many today. Society is at fault as are the individuals concerned and for people to blame the police, the courts or the poor little urchins' upbringing and to question the tactics used and the sentences given is totally off the mark. Are the police meant to involve themselves in every aspect of the lives of people like these so as to ensure that order is preserved? Don't be absurd.

[harvey]

If all these simple folk that wish to indulge in violence at football games actually had some self-respect, respect for others, respect for property and respect for authority then this wouldn't have happened. Don't even begin to say that respect has to be earned, some does yes, but not all. Had these people actually had respect and responsibility instilled in them then they would not have done what they did. Unfortunately for the majority they did not and this is the problem with so many today. Society is at fault as are the individuals concerned and for people to blame the police, the courts or the poor little urchins' upbringing and to question the tactics used and the sentences given is totally off the mark. Are the police meant to involve themselves in every aspect of the lives of people like these so as to ensure that order is preserved? Don't be absurd.

But the point is, which you and many others do not seem to understand, the sentences do not reflect the crimes in todays society.

[hamster]

wouldn't have happened, i am sure of that,

I'm not so sure Turkish, I am pretty confident in saying that it would have been considered and had it been, would have strenthened the argument for having a more controlled hot-spot which was already in situ and evidently kept violent disorder to a minimum. I think that whichever side of the fence (intentional pun) one sits, we have to admit that there was relatively minimal trouble.

Having said that I do personally think that the crime does not fit the punishment and have some if not a lot of sympathy for the convicted but quite a lot of sympathy for their families who are (let's face it) innocent but will suffer disproportionately as an effect.

How many times have we had fans invade the pitch since we moved to SMS I wonder? And can you imagine the scenes if saints and Pompey started exchanging flares and punches on the pitch?

[Micky]

But the point is, which you and many others do not seem to understand, the sentences do not reflect the crimes in todays society.

Actually I think that most of the posters do recognise this point, but the fact of the matter is, we don't care.

The punishment may indeed seem disproportionate to the crime when viewed alongside 'the norm', but if this acts as any sort of a deterrent to future perpetrators, then I welcome such a stance for all crime.

Yes the police could have done things differently, perhaps if you want to know why they didn't, a polite letter to Hampshire Chief Constable might unearth a more informed reason than the speculation contained here.

[harvey]

Actually I think that most of the posters do recognise this point, but the fact of the matter is, we don't care.

The punishment may indeed seem disproportionate to the crime when viewed alongside 'the norm', but if this acts as any sort of a deterrent to future perpetrators, then I welcome such a stance for all crime.

Yes the police could have done things differently, perhaps if you want to know why they didn't, a polite letter to Hampshire Chief Constable might unearth a more informed reason than the speculation contained here.

That's a shame, but then I suppose that it's indicative of people like you.

[hamster]

I really can't see how the police could be accused of causing the trouble for sinister reasons otherwise why have that fence erected?

Over the top custodials perhaps but if they had really wanted to create a situation then they would have let the northam exiting the stadium get involved but they didn't, they actually made it nigh on impossible with the exception of people choosing to run all the way around the stadium by which time they would quite likely be too cream crackered to piuck up a chair let alone throw one.

[harvey]

I really can't see how the police could be accused of causing the trouble for sinister reasons otherwise why have that fence erected?

Over the top custodials perhaps but if they had really wanted to create a situation then they would have let the northam exiting the stadium get involved but they didn't, they actually made it nigh on impossible with the exception of people choosing to run all the way around the stadium by which time they would quite likely be too cream crackered to piuck up a chair let alone throw one.

So why didn't they keep them in for 30 mins after the game?..........it's not ******* rocket science.

[1576]

I really can't see how the police could be accused of causing the trouble for sinister reasons otherwise why have that fence erected?

Over the top custodials perhaps but if they had really wanted to create a situation then they would have let the northam exiting the stadium get involved but they didn't, they actually made it nigh on impossible with the exception of people choosing to run all the way around the stadium by which time they would quite likely be too cream crackered to piuck up a chair let alone throw one.

I would imagine that most of the people they would have been interested in arresting do not sit in the Northam.

[Micky]

That's a shame, but then I suppose that it's indicative of people like you.

Sorry, please explain. Do we know each other?

[CanadaSaint]

But the point is, which you and many others do not seem to understand, the sentences do not reflect the crimes in todays society.

Surely, though, the point is that this doesn't matter when there's a broader societal point to be made. That enables the authorities to be inconsistent and even unfair in their efforts to make that point.

Every so often the pressure to punish severely - as a clear deterrent - will crop up in a new area, and apparently harsh punishments will be meted out.

Tough on those found guilty but - after all these years of enforcement - they can't claim that they weren't aware of the risks.

[harvey]

Sorry, please explain. Do we know each other?

Not at all, my opinion is just based on reading your posts................don't mean to be personal, but in general, I disagree with most things that you comment on.

[hamster]

So why didn't they keep them in for 30 mins after the game?..........it's not ******* rocket science.

Harvey, when your view is so intrenched you are liable to not be able to discuss alternatives.

You are correct that it is not rocket surgery but what it is, is a subject where there are many different opinions, I have mine and you have yours...please try to accept that otherwise I will have to come around to your gaff and throw my lighter in your garden. ;-)

From where I was stood quite a number in the northam end were quite 'up for it' and have in the past proven just how easy it can be to get on the pitch. Crikey we even havea couple of little kids, now infamous, for getting onto more football league pitches than Antony Pulis.

[saint boggy]

i can't believe this bloody thread is STILL going!!
FFS, get over it......people went to prison for behaving like neanderthals, others will think twice before copying their antics now........ simple as that......the desired effect has been reached.
harsh on the people that were sent down, but meh!

[harvey]

Surely, though, the point is that this doesn't matter when there's a broader societal point to be made. That enables the authorities to be inconsistent and even unfair in their efforts to make that point.

Every so often the pressure to punish severely - as a clear deterrent - will crop up in a new area, and apparently harsh punishments will be meted out.

Tough on those found guilty but - after all these years of enforcement - they can't claim that they weren't aware of the risks.

But it's nothing!!!!!!!! compared to todays warped society........ok, give them a hefty fine if you want to be 'seen' to be doing the right thing.......but FFS, what these people did was nothing compared to what some people do.

[harvey]

i can't believe this bloody thread is STILL going!!
FFS, get over it......people went to prison for behaving like neanderthals, others will think twice before copying their antics now........ simple as that......the desired effect has been reached.
harsh on the people that were sent down, but meh!

Don't comment on it then!.....................and btw, it's more than harsh, it's bloody ridiculous.

[CanadaSaint]

But it's nothing!!!!!!!! compared to todays warped society........ok, give them a hefty fine if you want to be 'seen' to be doing the right thing.......but FFS, what these people did was nothing compared to what some people do.

But when you think about it, the harsh approach is working, isn't it?

After all, here we are, still discussing it 560 posts after it was first raised.

Now there's even more reason for people to realize that even minor public order offences at games will not be tolerated.

[saint boggy]

Don't comment on it then!.....................and btw, it's more than harsh, it's bloody ridiculous.

not if it stops 200 youngsters thinking these d1cks are the 'sh1t' and joining in with it next time..........

[harvey]

But when you think about it, the harsh approach is working, isn't it?

After all, here we are, still discussing it 560 posts after it was first raised.

Now there's even more reason for people to realize that even minor public order offences at games will not be tolerated.

So in that context I assume we're gonna start castrating peadophiles tomorrow?

[Micky]

Not at all, my opinion is just based on reading your posts................don't mean to be personal, but in general, I disagree with most things that you comment on.

Oh right, thanks. So your opinion of me is formed totally on what you have read here, on an internet forum. Your opinion is relevant and valid.

Those people who don't care about the sentences handed down to these hooligans, how do you think thier opinions were formed?

[CanadaSaint]

So in that context I assume we're gonna start castrating peadophiles tomorrow?

If it's allowed under the pen(is)al code, I'm all for it.

And if it's not, I'm all for changing the penal code.

You might be on a loser with that example.

[harvey]

not if it stops 200 youngsters thinking these d1cks are the 'sh1t' and joining in with it next time..........

THAT IS NOT THE POINT.......................arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

[St Steve]

Did the lads who just got banged up learn from past mistakes and the sentances the Maze Hill lads got? No. There will always be dancing at football games like this and all rational thoughts by some go out the window. Fact is someone gives someone a slap on a saturday night in a pub they get a telling off, but if that slap gets classed as football related the punishment is x100.

[saint boggy]

THAT IS NOT THE POINT.......................arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

how is that NOT the point?????????
surely a potential punishment is only there as a means of a deterrent.....ie, you do 'this' and you could get 'x' amount of years etc!

[harvey]

If it's allowed under the pen(is)al code, I'm all for it.

And if it's not, I'm all for changing the penal code.

You might be on a loser with that example.

You're right..............I'm lost ;-)

[harvey]

how is that NOT the point?????????
surely a potential punishment is only there as a means of a deterrent.....ie, you do 'this' and you could get 'x' amount of years etc!

Ok, I'll try and make this simple...........

Purse snatcher..........community service
Charity box theif..........community service
DSS fraud.....communty discharge, coz she's got a couple of kids (boo hoo)

do you see where I'm coming from?

[saint boggy]

Ok, I'll try and make this simple...........

Purse snatcher..........community service
Charity box theif..........community service
DSS fraud.....communty discharge, coz she's got a couple of kids (boo hoo)

do you see where I'm coming from?

no not really.....do enlighten me

[harvey]

no not really.....do enlighten me

Things that are reported in the 'Echo' every day........all the loosers are given a chance for twenty third time (coz they've got issues)............Jeremy Kyle fodder. And decent fellas who just 'shook' a fence are being treated like Ronnie Biggs.

[saint boggy]

Things that are reported in the 'Echo' every day........all the loosers are given a chance for twenty third time (coz they've got issues)............Jeremy Kyle fodder. And decent fellas who just 'shook' a fence are being treated like Ronnie Biggs.
you SURE about that?...next time you walk past a group of 50-60 'men' all baying for blood, lets see if your opinion changes, shall we

....(and i think Ronnie Biggs got a slightly longer sentence than 14 months , don't you!)

[harvey]

Harvey, when your view is so intrenched you are liable to not be able to discuss alternatives.

You are correct that it is not rocket surgery but what it is, is a subject where there are many different opinions, I have mine and you have yours...please try to accept that otherwise I will have to come around to your gaff and throw my lighter in your garden. ;-)

From where I was stood quite a number in the northam end were quite 'up for it' and have in the past proven just how easy it can be to get on the pitch. Crikey we even havea couple of little kids, now infamous, for getting onto more football league pitches than Antony Pulis.

Sorry Hamster, only just seen your post.............I know that I'm entrenched, but I've been bought up to know right from wrong. But I've also been bought up to know that punishment should fit the crime.

They were out of order and should be punished, but at the end of the day, it was nothing.

[CanadaSaint]

....(and i think Ronnie Biggs got a slightly longer sentence than 14 months , don't you!)

As I recall it, he served 36 years with Brazilian football on his doorstep.

That'll teach him not to rob trains! ;)

[saint boggy]

As I recall it, he served 36 years with Brazilian football on his doorstep.

That'll teach him not to rob trains! ;)

hence why i did not say "he served more than 14 months"LOL
but, for the record,
he spent 2 years inside before he escaped and then 8 years when he returned to the UK...... considerably MORE than 14 months!;)

[harvey]

you SURE about that?...next time you walk past a group of 50-60 'men' all baying for blood, lets see if your opinion changes, shall we

....(and i think Ronnie Biggs got a slightly longer sentence than 14 months , don't you!)

I don't really think that they were 'baying for blood' St Boggy......is that what you think?

[hamster]

Sorry Hamster, only just seen your post.............I know that I'm entrenched, but I've been bought up to know right from wrong. But I've also been bought up to know that punishment should fit the crime.

They were out of order and should be punished, but at the end of the day, it was nothing.

If I had been born to Irish parents in Belfast I would quite possibly be lying in a grave for believing that I 'knew' what was right. We all need to remember to put 'iMho' at the end of our posts maybe? I am of the opinion that had these people taken a different route home, we would not even be having this conversation had they done that.

Having said that, the sentences ARE iMho harsh, I am agreeing with your argument. I wish that I had kept my opinion to myself, sorry. I shall not be posting any more of my opinions on this thread....though I may well study it's progress (lol).

[saint boggy]

I don't really think that they were 'baying for blood' St Boggy......is that what you think?
really?? so the guy who said to the copper that he "wants to go toe-to-toe with them and wants to die" was acting calmly and rationally,was he???...........yeh, right!!...he sounds like a right "decent fella" to me!

[hamster]

As I recall it, he served 36 years with Brazilian football on his doorstep.

That'll teach him not to rob trains! ;)

One finl word to offer a bit of a breather to anyone who's ****ing interested (added to add weight to my seriousness and ergo making me right).

The scene of the Great Train Robbery is only yards from a pub called The Globe on the Grand Union Canal, near to Milton Keynes, wher you can sit outside supping a lovely warm pint of 'Matron's Knickers' pondering life, the universe and football. It is rumoured that the (then) landlord retired very soon aftrewards, rumoured to be because (at just 48) he had had a little windfall. Was he involved?

Anyway, you can sit there looking at the very spot that it all took place. It's pretty boring tbh but it is the one thing on this thread that can be said to be a FACT.












FACT.

[harvey]

really?? so the guy who said to the copper that he "wants to go toe-to-toe with them and wants to die" was acting calmly and rationally,was he???...........yeh, right!!...he sounds like a right "decent fella" to me!

Well he was quite obviously an imbecile and I don't factor him in to my arguement.......infact he quite possibly destroys it :-).............my point still stands that the punishment should fit the crime.

[westofshannonsaint]

I am supprised to see this thread is still going, but do people realise that England is bidding to Host the world cup in 2018?

Football related violence is a huge mark against you in the hope of wining that bet and it has to be shown that you are stamping it out/have it under control. It has been said that the cops should have done more to prevent the crime, but imo football violence is on the rise & has been glamorised, the cops needed convictions to stop it getting out of hand (perhaps someone can advise if this is being repeated across the UK). from what i've read the cops had the situation pretty much under control -no one hurt/fans kept a god distance apart. They stood back and took pictures of people they fancied making examples of & people aged 28, 34, 46 (old enough to know better) seems like a good place to start.

Sentances like this will make people think twice before they throw a hub cap or coin at a child/woman/oap/anyone wearing colouts anywhere near a football stadium/wearing colours.

[harvey]

really?? so the guy who said to the copper that he "wants to go toe-to-toe with them and wants to die" was acting calmly and rationally,was he???...........yeh, right!!...he sounds like a right "decent fella" to me!

Look, I'm guessing that you're probably a mum........if one of your sons (or daughters) got the crap kicked out of them by 3 or 4 blokes, I assume that you'd expect that they'd recieve quite a hefty sentence for their henious crime?

[westofshannonsaint]

If I had been born to Irish parents in Belfast I would quite possibly be lying in a grave for believing that I 'knew' what was right...

Sorry Hamster that is WAYYY off topic & I know it was probably tongue in cheek but is pretty offensive. there is quite a difference in the right and wrongs of the republican "struggle" and local football rivalry.

[harvey]

I am supprised to see this thread is still going, but do people realise that England is bidding to Host the world cup in 2018?

Football related violence is a huge mark against you in the hope of wining that bet and it has to be shown that you are stamping it out/have it under control. It has been said that the cops should have done more to prevent the crime, but imo football violence is on the rise & has been glamorised, the cops needed convictions to stop it getting out of hand (perhaps someone can advise if this is being repeated across the UK). from what i've read the cops had the situation pretty much under control -no one hurt/fans kept a god distance apart. They stood back and took pictures of people they fancied making examples of & people aged 28, 34, 46 (old enough to know better) seems like a good place to start.

Sentances like this will make people think twice before they throw a hub cap or coin at a child/woman/oap/anyone wearing colouts anywhere near a football stadium/wearing colours.

Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!, so lets start doing it for the shoplifters, granny muggers, doorstep scumbags and druggies............that is the point.

[saint boggy]

Well he was quite obviously an imbecile and I don't factor him in to my arguement.......infact he quite possibly destroys it :-).............my point still stands that the punishment should fit the crime.
but if the punishment disuades others from copying the crime in the future,then surely that can only be a good thing.....the trouble in this country is that we are so used to the courts handing out namby-pamby sentences/punishments that when they do come down hard on certain elements of society, we are shocked (sometimes a good shock, sometimes not-so-good).
i stand by my theory though that this will send shockwaves through ,at least, the younger element of troublemakers, who, up to now, it has all been fun n games for.....intimidate a few people as you walk to a game,get in a few people's faces, give someone a little slap etc,.......push a fence??........
can we PLEASE end this f**kin' thread now.......it's just tedious......:smug:

[harvey]

but if the punishment disuades others from copying the crime in the future,then surely that can only be a good thing.....the trouble in this country is that we are so used to the courts handing out namby-pamby sentences/punishments that when they do come down hard on certain elements of society, we are shocked (sometimes a good shock, sometimes not-so-good).
i stand by my theory though that this will send shockwaves through ,at least, the younger element of troublemakers, who, up to now, it has all been fun n games for.....intimidate a few people as you walk to a game,get in a few people's faces, give someone a little slap etc,.......push a fence??........
can we PLEASE end this f**kin' thread now.......it's just tedious......:smug:

That's fine............but do the same for more serious crimes.

Tbh, granny bashers and charity box thieves I'd have shot on the spot.

[saint boggy]

Look, I'm guessing that you're probably a mum........if one of your sons (or daughters) got the crap kicked out of them by 3 or 4 blokes, I assume that you'd expect that they'd recieve quite a hefty sentence for their henious crime?

Harvey, don't be a ****!!

and you're damn right i would........and that is EXACTLY what is going to happen to those convicted of that cyclists assualt, and rightly so.....violence ,of ANY sort, should not be tolerated and should be punished HEAVILY.....

[harvey]

Harvey, don't be a ****!!

and you're damn right i would........and that is EXACTLY what is going to happen to those convicted of that cyclists assualt, and rightly so.....violence ,of ANY sort, should not be tolerated and should be punished HEAVILY.....

So how would you feel if they got a 6 month suspended sentence compared to someone who got 12 months in prison for shaking a fence?

[hamster]

Sorry Hamster that is WAYYY off topic & I know it was probably tongue in cheek but is pretty offensive. there is quite a difference in the right and wrongs of the republican "struggle" and local football rivalry.

I can't leave it there westofshannonsaint. I feel like a right pillock now, I apologise. That came out all wrong, I shall try to explain why I said that.

I have always had an opinion on 'the troubles' personally. Many is the time that I could not sleep because I wanted my 'Dad to come home. I never however quite got the Irish/IRA thing, Irish people were treated abysmally by my (wtf?) government. They have done bad things throughout history and will continue to do so. And unfortunately it means that they also write the history books. We have never fought a war that was 'right', only wars that we think were 'right'.

I was genuinely trying to say that one or two people on here should take a breather and calm down. This debate is not a war it is just a friendly discussion. When I am at meetings that are going this way, we always have a fag break, now where's my fags.

A terrible example given earlier, but not meant to cause offence to anyone.

[saint boggy]

That's fine............but do the same for more serious crimes.

Tbh, granny bashers and charity box thieves I'd have shot on the spot.

but what you fail to realise is that most of these youngsters are following in the footsteps of the 'older' football thug. They think they are cool, worldly, people to 'look up to' , to be revered.....how many granny bashers have other granny bashers to look up to , to egg them on,do they have meetings in the pub to arrange the next bashing event??...NO.they are 'stand alone' criminals....if someone is sent down for 2 years for hitting an OAP ,is there shockwaves throughout the whole bashing fraternity?????NO.......hence ,no real deterrent .....

[saint boggy]

So how would you feel if they got a 6 month suspended sentence compared to someone who got 12 months in prison for shaking a fence?

they're presumably being charged with attempted murder....its highly improbable that they'lll get a suspended sentence

[harvey]

but what you fail to realise is that most of these youngsters are following in the footsteps of the 'older' football thug. They think they are cool, worldly, people to 'look up to' , to be revered.....how many granny bashers have other granny bashers to look up to , to egg them on,do they have meetings in the pub to arrange the next bashing event??...NO.they are 'stand alone' criminals....if someone is sent down for 2 years for hitting an OAP ,is there shockwaves throughout the whole bashing fraternity?????NO.......hence ,no real deterrent .....

Crikey, I'd like to argue with you there, but what your saying is quite.............mmmmmmm' liberal (frightening).

[harvey]

they're presumably being charged with attempted murder....its highly improbable that they'lll get a suspended sentence

Would you put money on that?

[saint boggy]

Would you put money on that?
yep

[harvey]

yep

You must be minted.

Don't forget, one of these lads has got ADAH, had a bad upbringing and been on Trisha (all agedley)...........I'm crying as I type.........are you sure?

[westofshannonsaint]

Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!, so lets start doing it for the shoplifters, granny muggers, doorstep scumbags and druggies............that is the point.

In Irish courts (& I presume the UK is similar) examples are often made, a judge will often say "an example needs to be made and people need to realise that x/y/z behaviour is unnaceptable, admittedly the stance may be as a result of a political agenda be it a war on drugs or on football hooligans. this is a "zero policy" stance against football violence but it's nothing new really.

Also (again in Ireland) many of the above sentences are reduced upon appeal, which raises the question; How long are these people likely to serve?

[westofshannonsaint]

I can't leave it there westofshannonsaint. I feel like a right pillock now, I apologise. That came out all wrong

It was just exaggeration to prove a point, no need to apologise/feel like a pillock I often do the same :)

[harvey]

In Irish courts (& I presume the UK is similar) examples are often made, a judge will often say "an example needs to be made and people need to realise that x/y/z behaviour is unnaceptable, admittedly the stance may be as a result of a political agenda be it a war on drugs or on football hooligans. this is a "zero policy" stance against football violence but it's nothing new really.

Also (again in Ireland) many of the above sentences are reduced upon appeal, which raises the question; How long are these people likely to serve?

I appreciate your contribution my friend, but It's all so political now..............they were all stiched up on that day and the police(stazi) won't be held to account.

[hamster]

It was just exaggeration to prove a point, no need to apologise/feel like a pillock I often do the same :)

I'm gonna use that one next time I'm hauled before the boss.

I sometimes go through phases of apologising, I even say sorry when I'm not really sorry. Hope you aren't a ABE?

[westofshannonsaint]

.... Hope you aren't a ABE?

I don't know what that is, so I don't think I am.:?

[hamster]

Anyone But England

It's all the rage apparently, all over the world people hate us.

[westofshannonsaint]

Anyone But England


Oh, then sorry, I am:lol: & my prediction of ye being knocked out to Germany/Argentina on Penalties might come true :lol:. but what's football without rivalry & friendly banter.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I can't believe how the police did it, it's a cunning honey-trap. First, they fix the FA Cup draw so that Southampton play Portsmouth at home. Then for days beforehand they warn against violence and communicate that it will be punished. Then, they put up a massive ****ing fence to segregate fans. Lastly, they force a load of grown men to chuck stuff over a fence and damage cars in a garage forecourt, in public, with children around, and hey presto, they've honeytrapped 12 idiots.

They must be geniuses.

By the way, I still can't believe we've got 13 pages of people trying to argue that criminals shouldn't go to prison.

[mehball]

lol@this thread.

Do you really think these 12 people are jailed for shaking a fence? haha Id love to see that go through court. They obviously all did something wrong. Let lem rot.

[Turkish]

I can't believe how the police did it, it's a cunning honey-trap. First, they fix the FA Cup draw so that Southampton play Portsmouth at home. Then for days beforehand they warn against violence and communicate that it will be punished. Then, they put up a massive ****ing fence to segregate fans. Lastly, they force a load of grown men to chuck stuff over a fence and damage cars in a garage forecourt, in public, with children around, and hey presto, they've honeytrapped 12 idiots.

They must be geniuses.

By the way, I still can't believe we've got 13 pages of people trying to argue that criminals shouldn't go to prison.

Who has said that? Yet another one who hasn't got a clue. No one, for probably the 50th time says that they shouldn't be punished, no one says the police forced anyone to do anything. What people are saying, if you bother to read the thread properly, is that the police could have avoided the whole thing by doing what every police force in the country does at hostile game. Hold the away fans in.

By the way i cant believe we've got 13 pages of people still claiming that everyone who thinks 12 months in prision for shouting aggesively is harsh is saying its totally the polices fault and the offenders shouldn't be punished

[mehball]

Who has said that? Yet another one who hasn't got a clue. No one, for probably the 50th time says that they shouldn't be punished, no one says the police forced anyone to do anything. What people are saying, if you bother to read the thread properly, is that the police could have avoided the whole thing by doing what every police force in the country does at hostile game. Hold the away fans in.

By the way i cant believe we've got 13 pages of people still claiming that everyone who thinks 12 months in prision for shouting aggesively is harsh is saying its totally the polices fault and the offenders shouldn't be punished

He was joking you saints forum mong!

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Who has said that? Yet another one who hasn't got a clue. No one, for probably the 50th time says that they shouldn't be punished, no one says the police forced anyone to do anything. What people are saying, if you bother to read the thread properly, is that the police could have avoided the whole thing by doing what every police force in the country does at hostile game. Hold the away fans in.

By the way i cant believe we've got 13 pages of people still claiming that everyone who thinks 12 months in prision for shouting aggesively is harsh is saying its totally the polices fault and the offenders shouldn't be punished

What they should have done is not allowed any fans, from either side to watch it and it should have been played behind closed doors.

And people are saying they don't deserve a custodia sentence.

[mickn]

As some sort of comparison let me tell you about my nephew who was in court this week. He was in town a while ago and got into some sort of disagreement with a barman which ended with him throwing a bottle over the bar and smashing an optic. Whether it was aimed at the barman I don't know. He was in court this week and received a 12 week suspended sentance, 12 months probation, £100 fine and has to attend an alchohol awareness course. He has been in prison twice before for violence issues so has history. Now, I do not condone in anyway what the 12 Saints fans did and in fact they deserve punishment obviously but it has to be said that the severity of the sentancing is way over the top compared to my nephew's.

[Turkish]

He was joking you saints forum mong!

:blush:

[Surman4no7shirt]

This thread is pointless, anyone who has an opinion that is different to Turkish's or Sour Mash's is just told they "haven’t got a clue" or don't know what they are talking about. It's not a discussion or a debate anymore. "If you bother to read the thread properly," It's just 13 pages of people being told their opinion is wrong because they agree with the sentencing or the way the police acted.

So to summarise, everyone agrees what they did is wrong. Some people think the police should be held accountable because they disagree with the way they handled it, others think the police hold no blame. Some people think the sentence is fair, others think it is over the top. The majority agree there is some problem with consistency in sentencing in UK courts, whether this opinion is in the favour of the accused in this case or against the sentencing of other culprits in other cases is however, disputed.

Does anyone know who we are going to sign next?

[Scottydog67]

I think there are more to appear in court, the 12 sentenced this week were the first set of cctv pics in the echo, more to face court as the 2nd set of people caught on cctv images have yet to be sentenced.

[Turkish]

This thread is pointless, anyone who has an opinion that is different to Turkish's or Sour Mash's is just told they "haven’t got a clue" or don't know what they are talking about. It's not a discussion or a debate anymore. "If you bother to read the thread properly," It's just 13 pages of people being told their opinion is wrong because they agree with the sentencing or the way the police acted.

So to summarise, everyone agrees what they did is wrong. Some people think the police should be held accountable because they disagree with the way they handled it, others think the police hold no blame. Some people think the sentence is fair, others think it is over the top. The majority agree there is some problem with consistency in sentencing in UK courts, whether this opinion is in the favour of the accused in this case or against the sentencing of other culprits in other cases is however, disputed.

Does anyone know who we are going to sign next?

The problem is the thread just goes round and round because people dont read the posts above and assumes everyone who thinks the sentances are over top and chimes in with 'i dont see how anyone can say its the fault of the police, they had a choice to do what that'

My stances in summary is this
1/ They were idiots for getting involved
2/ They deserve to be punished
3/ In view of what they did, especially the one who got 12 months for shouting aggressively, i dont think any deserve prison, bans, fines etc but not prision
4/ The police do need to be questioned and accountable as to why they allowed both sets of fan leave the ground at the same time as i have never heard of this happening at any other derby anywhere when such animosity exists between the fans. It is asking for trouble.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

As some sort of comparison let me tell you about my nephew who was in court this week. He was in town a while ago and got into some sort of disagreement with a barman which ended with him throwing a bottle over the bar and smashing an optic. Whether it was aimed at the barman I don't know. He was in court this week and received a 12 week suspended sentance, 12 months probation, £100 fine and has to attend an alchohol awareness course. He has been in prison twice before for violence issues so has history. Now, I do not condone in anyway what the 12 Saints fans did and in fact they deserve punishment obviously but it has to be said that the severity of the sentancing is way over the top compared to my nephew's.

Was he at a football match? If not, then it's not really a comparison. Football violence has be dealt with more harshly. And people were warned.

[saintjay77]

The problem is the thread just goes round and round because people dont read the posts above and assumes everyone who thinks the sentances are over top and chimes in with 'i dont see how anyone can say its the fault of the police, they had a choice to do what that'

My stances in summary is this
1/ They were idiots for getting involved
2/ They deserve to be punished
3/ In view of what they did, especially the one who got 12 months for shouting aggressively, i dont think any deserve prison, bans, fines etc but not prision
4/ The police do need to be questioned and accountable as to why they allowed both sets of fan leave the ground at the same time as i have never heard of this happening at any other derby anywhere when such animosity exists between the fans. It is asking for trouble.

I can honestly see your point and like I have said a number of times, compared to sentances elsewhere away from football these sentances seem as mad as a box of frogs.

But, there are countless opinions given as to why they let them out at the same time and why the sentances are so tough. They will also probably appeal and have there sentances reduced.

The press building up the game before hand and the publicity on the fence and police before hand and the dramatisation from the press after meant that Football related trouble had to be stamped on quick and hard. Joe blogs from skegness probably couldnt give a rats arse but Like someone else suggested, FIFA would be watching out for all football related trouble and would no doubt consider it when deciding who gets the World Cup or any other footballing events.

They would have probably seen the inital trouble and how it was dealt with and no doubt heard about the sentancing. Will any appeal be as public?

All IMO of course but its quite possible the above has had something to do with it.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Me: By the way, I still can't believe we've got 13 pages of people trying to argue that criminals shouldn't go to prison.

Turkish: Who has said that? Yet another one who hasn't got a clue.



3/ In view of what they did, especially the one who got 12 months for shouting aggressively, i dont think any deserve prison, bans, fines etc but not prision


See above. I suggest you're just trying to cause an argument looking at this. Oh and by the way, as a Law graduate, I suggest I have more of an idea than you.

[Wiltshire Saint]

What people are saying, if you bother to read the thread properly, is that the police could have avoided the whole thing by doing what every police force in the country does at hostile game. Hold the away fans in.

And what other people are saying, if you manage to understand it, is that these hooligans CHOSE to act in an aggressive manner and are being punished. Good. Why are these criminals unable to control themselves because they happen to have attended a match where the away fans were not kept in? What is it about them that means that they HAVE to act in the way they did? The answer is because they are a bunch of mindless c*nts and getting them off the streets for even a short time is a positive thing for society, so law-abiding citizens, who can control themselves, regardless of whether away fans are about, can live peaceful lives, free from the fear of violence.

[Sour Mash]

but if the punishment disuades others from copying the crime in the future,then surely that can only be a good thing.....the trouble in this country is that we are so used to the courts handing out namby-pamby sentences/punishments that when they do come down hard on certain elements of society, we are shocked (sometimes a good shock, sometimes not-so-good).
i stand by my theory though that this will send shockwaves through ,at least, the younger element of troublemakers, who, up to now, it has all been fun n games for.....intimidate a few people as you walk to a game,get in a few people's faces, give someone a little slap etc,.......push a fence??........
can we PLEASE end this f**kin' thread now.......it's just tedious......:smug:

Hanging them from the gallows would dissuade others from misbehaving in the future, doesn't mean that it would be in anyway the right or fair thing to do.

As I've asked on here before, how many people really EVER feel unsafe going to football? There are no major problems. I know loads of families and old people that go and don't feel remotely unsafe at any time, so what are these really major issues that you're going on about that you feel need this excessive sentencing? (And before you say anything, I'm sure there is the odd incident here and there and there'll bound to be someone with an example, but as a whole, there is no problem in football at the moment).

[Turkish]

Me: By the way, I still can't believe we've got 13 pages of people trying to argue that criminals shouldn't go to prison.

Turkish: Who has said that? Yet another one who hasn't got a clue.



See above. I suggest you're just trying to cause an argument looking at this. Oh and by the way, as a Law graduate, I suggest I have more of an idea than you.

Oh look what we have here,yet another arrogant graduate who spent the whole of their early twenties getting ****ed on grants and loans and now thinks they are a cut above everyone else and the world owes them a living.

And no not EVERY criminal should go to prison.

[once_bitterne]

Is this thread still rumbling on.... I think that we can summarise by saying there are two camps, one for people who actually like football who are capable of going home after a match without getting into any trouble and feel that anyone who does deserves exactly what they get, and those who care little for football and who's matchday experience centres around having a ruck with opposing fans.....

[mickn]

Was he at a football match? If not, then it's not really a comparison. Football violence has be dealt with more harshly. And people were warned.

No, it was a night out

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Oh look what we have here,yet another arrogant graduate who spent the whole of their early twenties getting ****ed on grants and loans and now thinks they are a cut above everyone else and the world owes them a living.

And no not EVERY criminal should go to prison.

Oh, look what we have here, another mindless thug who believes that just because they left school at 16 believes that anyone who wants to better themselves and not spend their life screwing the systems for benefits obviously did so by getting grants and government funding. You're so out of ****ing touch it's embarrassing. And world owes them a living, what are you on about. I have a decent job because I worked hard, not because it's been handed to me. People who criticise those who go to University tend to be cash in hand, **** the state, disability allowance grabbing, benefits cheating scum.

And no, every criminal does not deserve to go to prison, but I for one am happy these idiots are off the street. Let's hope they find your picture on the next load of CCTV shots eh?

[Noodles34]

Was he at a football match? If not, then it's not really a comparison. Football violence has be dealt with more harshly. And people were warned.

so if i am NOT warned to murder a child then i should be alright?

[Turkish]

Oh, look what we have here, another mindless thug who believes that just because they left school at 16 believes that anyone who wants to better themselves and not spend their life screwing the systems for benefits obviously did so by getting grants and government funding. You're so out of ****ing touch it's embarrassing. And world owes them a living, what are you on about. I have a decent job because I worked hard, not because it's been handed to me. People who criticise those who go to University tend to be cash in hand, **** the state, disability allowance grabbing, benefits cheating scum.

And no, every criminal does not deserve to go to prison, but I for one am happy these idiots are off the street. Let's hope they find your picture on the next load of CCTV shots eh?

Yep, thats me, unemployed, lazing around, on here all day as no job to worry about and living off benefits. Lucky for me amazing people like you who like to talk themselves up about their education and fanstatic job wil pay for me to do this. Who is the bigger mug?

Just so you know pal, I dont feel the need to prove myself with quips about my education and work and how much better idea i have than someone else because, guess what, i am graduate, whoop whoop for me!!!

Oh and as for your cheap shot about seeing me on CCTV, they wont, i walked that way from the ground, i saw what went on from about 20 foot away, i chose not to get involved, that makes me an eye witness, not someone who read the paper, saw the youtube clippings and made an opinion based on media frenzy and internet posts. As an eyewitness to a 'crime' scene, i think that give me more idea than any book you may have read in a class room. And in any case, why are you on here, should someone as self righteous as you not be stealing time from their employer by using the internet for none work related purposes during working hours? Got to go, i need to pop down the offy for some more cans of cider and fags to watch todays games on my 50 inch plazma hard working mugs like you paid for.

[View From The Top]

Is this thread still rumbling on.... I think that we can summarise by saying there are two camps, one for people who actually like football who are capable of going home after a match without getting into any trouble and feel that anyone who does deserves exactly what they get, and those who care little for football and who's matchday experience centres around having a ruck with opposing fans.....

Here fishy fishy. It's a nice juicy worm.

[saintjay77]

so if i am NOT warned to murder a child then i should be alright?

But if you were warned not to murder a child at a specific time and place and then the police turned out in numbers, errected a huge fence to keep you apart from said child and stood around filming you trying to get at it looking like you wanted to murder it.

Would you not expect the Police to come down hard on you?

[exit2]

Basically again these guys are being made an example of and the sooner people relise that when they got caught up in trouble at football this is what happens .

Football + Violence = Custodial Sentence, right or wrong this is what happens and nowt is going to change it. The british goverment and courts have a big bee in their bonnet about football violence which I dont think will go away for years to come. You only have to look at some of the sentences handed out to non related football issues.

[View From The Top]

Basically again these guys are being made an example of and the sooner people relise that when they got caught up in trouble at football this is what happens .

Football + Violence = Custodial Sentence, right or wrong this is what happens and nowt is going to change it. The british goverment and courts have a big bee in their bonnet about football violence which I dont think will go away for years to come. You only have to look at some of the sentences handed out to non related football issues.

But that simply isn't true is it or the fellas who laid into the Yeovil fans that were on the deck would have (and should have IMHO) been sent down as well.

However, you are correct, IMHO, the they are being made an example of.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Yep, thats me, unemployed, lazing around, on here all day as no job to worry about and living off benefits. Lucky for me amazing people like you who like to talk themselves up about their education and fanstatic job wil pay for me to do this. Who is the bigger mug?

Just so you know pal, I dont feel the need to prove myself with quips about my education and work and how much better idea i have than someone else because, guess what, i am graduate, whoop whoop for me!!!

Oh and as for your cheap shot about seeing me on CCTV, they wont, i walked that way from the ground, i saw what went on from about 20 foot away, i chose not to get involved, that makes me an eye witness, not someone who read the paper, saw the youtube clippings and made an opinion based on media frenzy and internet posts. As an eyewitness to a 'crime' scene, i think that give me more idea than any book you may have read in a class room. And in any case, why are you on here, should someone as self righteous as you not be stealing time from their employer by using the internet for none work related purposes during working hours? Got to go, i need to pop down the offy for some more cans of cider and fags to watch todays games on my 50 inch plazma hard working mugs like you paid for.

So what your saying is that I am not more qualified to judge a legal situation than you, even though I have studied Law for a number of years? Unless you have done the same or served at her majesties pleasure, I don't think you are. I suppose you realise that aggresive shouting, for instance 'I'm gonna kill you Pompey scum' is actually seen as an assault as well then?

I'm not self righteous, I'm just reacting to you acting like a prat and judging me on the back of the fact that you blatantly know sweet fa about the law, if you could be at the crimescene and not realise that kind of behaviour can lead to custodials. Lets put it this way. They're in prison. Which means your opinion is null and void.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Basically again these guys are being made an example of and the sooner people relise that when they got caught up in trouble at football this is what happens .

Football + Violence = Custodial Sentence, right or wrong this is what happens and nowt is going to change it. The british goverment and courts have a big bee in their bonnet about football violence which I dont think will go away for years to come. You only have to look at some of the sentences handed out to non related football issues.

'Bee in their bonnet', lol. Heysel was pretty serious y'know.

[Sour Mash]

So what your saying is that I am not more qualified to judge a legal situation than you, even though I have studied Law for a number of years? Unless you have done the same or served at her majesties pleasure, I don't think you are. I suppose you realise that aggresive shouting, for instance 'I'm gonna kill you Pompey scum' is actually seen as an assault as well then?

I'm not self righteous, I'm just reacting to you acting like a prat and judging me on the back of the fact that you blatantly know sweet fa about the law, if you could be at the crimescene and not realise that kind of behaviour can lead to custodials. Lets put it this way. They're in prison. Which means your opinion is null and void.

You haven't in any of your posts on this subject demonstrated a greater knowledge or understanding of any of this compared to any of us lesser mortals without a law degree. Most on here have an understanding of what the law is and understand roughly the definition of violent disorder and that it can carry with it a custodial sentence. What exactly is your point?

[100%Red&White]

So what your saying is that I am not more qualified to judge a legal situation than you, even though I have studied Law for a number of years?

I suppose you realise that aggresive shouting, for instance 'I'm gonna kill you Pompey scum' is actually seen as an assault as well then?.

You should have studied grammar a little more closely tbf ;)

And how many Saints fans will find themselves banged-up by the end of next season if "When I was just a little boy.........." continues inside SMS. :scared:

[Dark Sotonic Mills]

You should have studied grammar a little more closely tbf ;)

And how many Saints fans will find themselves banged-up by the end of next season if "When I was just a little boy.........." continues inside SMS. :scared:

Every single one of them, I hope. Cringeworthy song just like Pompey fan on a string...:x

[Turkish]

So what your saying is that I am not more qualified to judge a legal situation than you, even though I have studied Law for a number of years? Unless you have done the same or served at her majesties pleasure, I don't think you are. I suppose you realise that aggresive shouting, for instance 'I'm gonna kill you Pompey scum' is actually seen as an assault as well then?

I'm not self righteous, I'm just reacting to you acting like a prat and judging me on the back of the fact that you blatantly know sweet fa about the law, if you could be at the crimescene and not realise that kind of behaviour can lead to custodials. Lets put it this way. They're in prison. Which means your opinion is null and void.

As is your opinion, your houour. As i have already stated i dont need to talk myself up with what i do for a job, what i did for education as its not important. I would beg to differ on your stance of being self righteous, 'i've studied law' 'i'm got a degree' 'i'm more qualified than you' 'i've got a good job because i work hard' and believes that everyone that leaves school at 16 is a noone and screwing the system for benifits, (you might want to ask Alan Sugar about that theory?) are self righteous comments in the extreme.

And what do you base your view that i know sweet FA on the law on then? That i dont agree with your view that they should be banged up? I do know that sort of behaviour CAN lead to custodials, but in these circumstances IMO it should not have. As 'a person of reasonable firmness' as the law would put it, i never felt in fear of my saftey, from 20 foot away and saw pretty much all of it. I did know that shouting 'i am gonna kill you Pompey fan' could be seen as assualt, (you can be guilty of assault just be touching someone without their consent) but they weren't charged with assault so dont see what your point is. It could also be seen as threats to kill, which carries up to 10 years, or if he'd shouted it and two other people had heard and agreed they too were 'going to kill' Pompey fans, it could be considered consipracy to murder which would carry life. I know this because i do and through life experience, not because i read it in a book. But then what would i know? I clearly know FA about the law and am not quailified.

[100%Red&White]

Cringeworthy song just like Pompey fan on a string...:x

True.

[Rowan Gorilla 5]

How is it wrong that law-breakers are being made an example of? It's just a shame that more law-breakers are not made an example of.

[ericofarabia]

After ages of trawling thru You Tube etc I've given up searching for it, but if somebody finds it could they please please pretty please post a link to The Not The Nine O Clock News sketch with the debate on Football Hooliganism.

OFF WITH THEIR GOOLIES .... that would work as a pretty good detterent i reckon :lol:

[PhilB]

Are you saying that them losing their jobs, having their lives turned upside down, children having their parents taken away is an acceptable punishment for throwing a fookin coin?

You seriously are retarded.

The only retard on here is you. They should of thought about their mindless action first. Christ some Shiite comes out of your gob

[Block 5]

Oh, look what we have here, another mindless thug who believes that just because they left school at 16 believes that anyone who wants to better themselves and not spend their life screwing the systems for benefits obviously did so by getting grants and government funding. You're so out of ****ing touch it's embarrassing. And world owes them a living, what are you on about. I have a decent job because I worked hard, not because it's been handed to me. People who criticise those who go to University tend to be cash in hand, **** the state, disability allowance grabbing, benefits cheating scum.

And no, every criminal does not deserve to go to prison, but I for one am happy these idiots are off the street. Let's hope they find your picture on the next load of CCTV shots eh?

I shan't get involved in this thread other than to say that this is one of the most arrogant posts I've ever seen on this forum.

Priceless!

[Turkish]

I shan't get involved in this thread other than to say that this is one of the most arrogant posts I've ever seen on this forum.

Priceless!

No, no, he is right, he studied law, he is a superior being to anyone that didn't.

[Smirking_Saint]

Lol at this thread getting to 13 pages worth of pointless boll*cks.

Anyone that actually believes these guys got 12 months for shaking a fence and perhaps throwing a coin is almost as f*cking moronic as the goons that have gone down for acting like tw*ts in full view of the police and cameras.

Everyone knows that football violence carries harsher sentancing, and saying 'think about the people and their families etc' Boll*cks, i feel sorry for their families for being related to such a bunch of idiots, i don't feel sorry for someone that goes out and commits a crime, i wouldn't feel sorry for someone that lost their driving licence for being over the limit, i wouldn't feel sorry for someone that went down for throwing a punch in town when 'he is not normally like that' and i certainly don't feel for these guys.

Hopefully a stint inside will make them actually THINK about their families, jobs etc themselves.

[Sour Mash]

Lol at this thread getting to 13 pages worth of pointless boll*cks.

Anyone that actually believes these guys got 12 months for shaking a fence and perhaps throwing a coin is almost as f*cking moronic as the goons that have gone down for acting like tw*ts in full view of the police and cameras.


Whys that then?

[Smirking_Saint]

Whys that then?

If you really can't understand what i am implying is there any point in trying to explain ?

[Turkish]

Lol at this thread getting to 13 pages worth of pointless boll*cks.

Anyone that actually believes these guys got 12 months for shaking a fence and perhaps throwing a coin is almost as f*cking moronic as the goons that have gone down for acting like tw*ts in full view of the police and cameras.

Everyone knows that football violence carries harsher sentancing, and saying 'think about the people and their families etc' Boll*cks, i feel sorry for their families for being related to such a bunch of idiots, i don't feel sorry for someone that goes out and commits a crime, i wouldn't feel sorry for someone that lost their driving licence for being over the limit, i wouldn't feel sorry for someone that went down for throwing a punch in town when 'he is not normally like that' and i certainly don't feel for these guys.

Hopefully a stint inside will make them actually THINK about their families, jobs etc themselves.

here it is in black and white, from the echo website. Shaking a fence, shouting aggresively, throwing a coin, confirms what i saw on the day, not a lot and not enough to warrrant prison. Obviously makes me f****** moronic.
Builder and former Royal Navy marine engineer Christopher Stevens, 46, of Stagbrake Close, Southampton, was jailed for 12 months. He was seen to shake the barrier fence and throw two missiles after drinking eight pints of lager. Defence barrister James Horder said he had attended more than 500 Southampton matches and was “deeply ashamed” at his behaviour after getting “caught up” in events. The judge said: “You are a family man and devoted Southampton fan and this drunken violence was plainly out of character.”


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

■ Scaffolder and father of one James Smith, 34, of Brentwood Crescent, Southampton, was jailed for 12 months.

Richard Tutt, defending, said the Saints ticket holder was “ashamed and remorseful.” He admitted throwing one stone towards Portsmouth fans.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

■ Michael Byles, 24, of Aldermoor Road, Southampton, handed himself after seeing his picture in the Daily Echo. He had been filmed grabbing the fence and shouting aggressively. Said to have previous convictions for public order offences in 2006, 2007 and 2009, he admitted he was drunk and ashamed. He was jailed for 16 months.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

■ Marcus Bevan, a 23-year-old plumber, of Warburton Road, Southampton, hurled five or six missiles and tried to climb over a fence at get out at Portsmouth fans. As a football coach and player for Brockenhurst, the judge said his actions were “particularly disgraceful”. Admitting he was now ashamed, he was locked up for 16 months.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

■ Cameron Jordan, 23, of Middle Road, Sholing, Southampton, was filmed pulling on the fence and launching a substantial piece of plastic at Portsmouth fans. At the time he was on bail for a similar offence when he drove a group of Thornhill youths to an armed fight with a gang from Townhill in which he was stabbed in the buttock. He was jailed for a total of 34 months.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

■ His father, Stephen Jordan, 49, of the same address, who pushed and pulled at the fencing, told police it seemed the good opportunity for “a toe to toe” fight. It was feared his business, which employed 14 people, would go under with a prison sentence.

The judge said he was “sceptical” that Jordan was remorseful and jailed him for 12 months.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

■ Xavier White, 22, of Wilton Road, Southampton, had his hopes of an Army career with the Parachute Regiment shattered after he was seen to throw missiles.

He was sentenced to 12 months


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

■ Carpenter Matthew Hinton, 19, of Hillside Avenue, Southampton, handed himself in to the police after seeing his picture in the Daily Echo. He admitted he had drunk too much and described his behaviour as “ridiculous.”

He was jailed for 12 months.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

■ James Koral, 20, of Haddon Drive, Eastleigh, who had a previous conviction for battery, threw four objects at Portsmouth fans after getting caught up with things in “the heat of the moment”. He also handed himself in after seeing his picture in the Daily Echo and his participation had cost him his job as a British Gas call centre advisor.

He also got 12 months.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

■ Lewis Buckley, 24, of The Millburns, Romsey, admitted throwing two coins in anger after being struck on the leg by an object thrown by a rival fan. He also surrendered himself to the police and claimed he had “no desire” to watch another football match again. He received 12 months.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

■ Recently married Kevin Medway, 28, of Grenville Court, Townhill Park, had knocked back ten pints before he was seen throwing something, pushing at a fence and being aggressive. He also received 12 months.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

■ Allan Taylor, 30, of Wilton Road, Southampton, who was said to have a personality disorder, specifically went to the match knowing there would be trouble and hoped he would get hurt.

Taylor, who had previous convictions for violent disorder and assault, had a 15-month sentence imposed.

[Sour Mash]

If you really can't understand what i am implying is there any point in trying to explain ?

Go on, give it a try.

[View From The Top]

Lol at this thread getting to 13 pages worth of pointless boll*cks.

Anyone that actually believes these guys got 12 months for shaking a fence and perhaps throwing a coin is almost as f*cking moronic as the goons that have gone down for acting like tw*ts in full view of the police and cameras.

Everyone knows that football violence carries harsher sentancing, and saying 'think about the people and their families etc' Boll*cks, i feel sorry for their families for being related to such a bunch of idiots, i don't feel sorry for someone that goes out and commits a crime, i wouldn't feel sorry for someone that lost their driving licence for being over the limit, i wouldn't feel sorry for someone that went down for throwing a punch in town when 'he is not normally like that' and i certainly don't feel for these guys.

Hopefully a stint inside will make them actually THINK about their families, jobs etc themselves.

Think of it this way. What disorder was there apart from some idiots lobbing stuff and shaking a fence?

If there had been any other serious disorder in and around the garage surely it would of A) Been included in the charges. B) Been mentioned in court. C) Been included in the press releases put together at Bitterne nick by the CID team investigating events.

The OB set out to catch a genuine hooligan element and ended up bagging a bunch of barmies, all of course, IMHO.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

That is sickening that someone can be jailed for shaking a fence, costing them their business, not just that but the knock on effect of putting 14 people out of work.

Seriously sickening and yes they all deserved to be punished, but to lose your business and livelyhood over shaking a fence? Really?

[Smirking_Saint]

Think of it this way. What disorder was there apart from some idiots lobbing stuff and shaking a fence?

If there had been any other serious disorder in and around the garage surely it would of A) Been included in the charges. B) Been mentioned in court. C) Been included in the press releases put together at Bitterne nick by the CID team investigating events.

The OB set out to catch a genuine hooligan element and ended up bagging a bunch of barmies, all of course, IMHO.

But that problem with this form of 'violent disorder' is that in can also looked at as incitement, the police IMO failed to adequately control it and could have easily avoided it, however they also managed to stop it escalating into something far far more serious. This is what was obviously taken into account when handing out the sentancing and rightly so.

A fight in a street between two people for example is just more or less going to be contained.

The problem when the same happens between two groups of people that share a common bond (football teams) is that more and more will be dragged into the ensuing violence.

As much as the Echo have clearly watered down the charges you can see the sort of people that you are dealing with, as well as a couple which obviously got carried away and drawn into it (see above). Add to this the fact that they caused 30k of damage to the car dealership.

I really can't see how anyone can defend these thugs.

[Smirking_Saint]

That is sickening that someone can be jailed for shaking a fence, costing them their business, not just that but the knock on effect of putting 14 people out of work.

Seriously sickening and yes they all deserved to be punished, but to lose your business and livelyhood over shaking a fence? Really?

The man in questioned said he looked forward to going toe to toe with the rival fans !!

As much as i feel sorry for the 14 that may lose their jobs i don't feel sorry for him, or his son that also went down and has previous.

[View From The Top]

But that problem with this form of 'violent disorder' is that in can also looked at as incitement, the police IMO failed to adequately control it and could have easily avoided it, however they also managed to stop it escalating into something far far more serious. This is what was obviously taken into account when handing out the sentancing and rightly so.

A fight in a street between two people for example is just more or less going to be contained.

The problem when the same happens between two groups of people that share a common bond (football teams) is that more and more will be dragged into the ensuing violence.

As much as the Echo have clearly watered down the charges you can see the sort of people that you are dealing with, as well as a couple which obviously got carried away and drawn into it (see above). Add to this the fact that they caused 30k of damage to the car dealership.

I really can't see how anyone can defend these thugs.

Fair enough and I can see where you're coming from but for some, and definitely not all, the time certainly, IMHO, doesn't fit the crime.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

But that problem with this form of 'violent disorder' is that in can also looked at as incitement, the police IMO failed to adequately control it and could have easily avoided it, however they also managed to stop it escalating into something far far more serious. This is what was obviously taken into account when handing out the sentancing and rightly so.

A fight in a street between two people for example is just more or less going to be contained.

The problem when the same happens between two groups of people that share a common bond (football teams) is that more and more will be dragged into the ensuing violence.

As much as the Echo have clearly watered down the charges you can see the sort of people that you are dealing with, as well as a couple which obviously got carried away and drawn into it (see above). Add to this the fact that they caused 30k of damage to the car dealership.

I really can't see how anyone can defend these thugs.

Why on earth would a newspaper water down the charges? Papers make money on sensationalist stories. Both the Echo and News reported it exactly the same way.

And as for the 30k of damage, if any of them were involved in any criminal damage then they would have been charged with that too, or it would at the very least have been in the evidence and documented by the the Echo and News.

Nobody is defending them, but to put them in prison for a year is completely wrong, 14 people will lose their jobs, someone has lost their whole livelyhood, a mother has lost her son and husband for at least 4 months, what for? Shaking a fence.

Community Service, house arrest, massive fine, banned from St Marys for life - any of these sentences would have been acceptable punishment.

Just because people don't agree with the sentences, doesn't mean they don't agree that they don't think the offenders should have been punished.

[Turkish]

But that problem with this form of 'violent disorder' is that in can also looked at as incitement, the police IMO failed to adequately control it and could have easily avoided it, however they also managed to stop it escalating into something far far more serious. This is what was obviously taken into account when handing out the sentancing and rightly so.

A fight in a street between two people for example is just more or less going to be contained.

The problem when the same happens between two groups of people that share a common bond (football teams) is that more and more will be dragged into the ensuing violence.

As much as the Echo have clearly watered down the charges you can see the sort of people that you are dealing with, as well as a couple which obviously got carried away and drawn into it (see above). Add to this the fact that they caused 30k of damage to the car dealership.

I really can't see how anyone can defend these thugs.

God i nearly fell off my chair when i read that comment. This is the same echo that printed thier faces on the front page, that descirbed it as a 'war zone' and massivly exagerated what happened in the weeks after, that carried the incident as their lead story SEVEN times, that brag that some of them handed themselves in after seeing themselves in the echo and that were salivating at story from the moment it happened right through to the convictions and sentance and that basically lapped it up from day one and couldn't print enough words about it are now watering down the story!!! Not that legally that cant lie anymore and say people did things they didn't then?

[Smirking_Saint]

Why on earth would a newspaper water down the charges? Papers make money on sensationalist stories. Both the Echo and News reported it exactly the same way.

And as for the 30k of damage, if any of them were involved in any criminal damage then they would have been charged with that too, or it would at the very least have been in the evidence and documented by the the Echo and News.

Nobody is defending them, but to put them in prison for a year is completely wrong, 14 people will lose their jobs, someone has lost their whole livelyhood, a mother has lost her son and husband for at least 4 months, what for? Shaking a fence.

Community Service, house arrest, massive fine, banned from St Marys for life - any of these sentences would have been acceptable punishment.

Just because people don't agree with the sentences, doesn't mean they don't agree that they don't think the offenders should have been punished.

Yeah ok, the paper bit was a bit of a misguided comment really.

As for the 12 months, in all honestly yeah it is a little harsh IMO. But these people will be out in under that time. Hopefully the time away allows them to rethink their direction and those at home them have let down.

Do i feel sorry for their children and wives etc ? Yeah of course but TBH they walked past and made a conscious choice TO get involved, they could have walked away, could have walked past, but they didn't. How did the 30k odd others manage to do it ?

Unfortunately football violence tends to draw higher sentances, and so it should. Was 12 months a tad harsh ? Yes, but then it was their choice to commit a crime and tbf the crime will carry a maximum sentance (5 years), the law cannot hand out higher sentances than that so it's not like they have not been warned.

Unfortunately for every over sentancing there will always will a few slack sentances, look at the yoevil incident. It is what it is.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

As for the 12 months, in all honestly yeah it is a little harsh IMO. But these people will be out in under that time. Hopefully the time away allows them to rethink their direction and those at home them have let down.

Do i feel sorry for their children and wives etc ? Yeah of course but TBH they walked past and made a conscious choice TO get involved, they could have walked away, could have walked past, but they didn't. How did the 30k odd others manage to do it ?

Is losing their whole livelyhood, business they have spent all their life building, house etc a worthy punishment for someone who shook a fence in ONE moment of drunkeness?

Yes or no?

[Smirking_Saint]

Is losing their whole livelyhood, business they have spent all their life building, house etc a worthy punishment for someone who shook a fence in ONE moment of drunkeness?

Yes or no?

But that is not THE punishment is it, that is a consequence to the punishment, the punishment is the consequence to the action. Should the action have happened ? No, but it did. If i was in their situation i would be p*ssed off but it is what it is, the maximum sentance is 5 years. They were warned, they were WATCHED by the OB and filmed. There is no excuse.

Is it harsh that someone that drinks 2 pints gets in his car and gets done for drink driving loses his licence and livelihood ? Yes, its harsh, but it is the punishment to the crime. Everyone is aware of that.

[Surman4no7shirt]

Does anyone know if they will appeal against the sentences?

[Dave Benson Phillips]

But that is not THE punishment is it, that is a consequence to the punishment, the punishment is the consequence to the action. Should the action have happened ? No, but it did. If i was in their situation i would be p*ssed off but it is what it is, the maximum sentance is 5 years. They were warned, they were WATCHED by the OB and filmed. There is no excuse.

Is it harsh that someone that drinks 2 pints gets in his car and gets done for drink driving loses his licence and livelihood ? Yes, its harsh, but it is the punishment to the crime. Everyone is aware of that.

Answer the question.

Is losing your whole livelyhood an acceptable punishment for shaking a fence in the heat of the moment?

Do you think that a custodial sentence for shaking a fence is proportionate in relation to other crimes? ( don't come back with "we all know the punishments are more in football" because everyone doesn't, only us sad muppets who trawl the internet and live,eat,breath football do )

Simple yes or no... does the punishment fit the crime?

[Dave Benson Phillips]

Does anyone know if they will appeal against the sentences?

There is no point, they will be out by the time their appeal is heard, unless they wanted to go for compensation.

[Smirking_Saint]

Answer the question.

Is losing your whole livelyhood an acceptable punishment for shaking a fence in the heat of the moment?

Do you think that a custodial sentence for shaking a fence is proportionate in relation to other crimes? ( don't come back with "we all know the punishments are more in football" because everyone doesn't, only us sad muppets who trawl the internet and live,eat,breath football do )

Simple yes or no... does the punishment fit the crime?

Shaking a fence and so IMO causing threatening behaviour towards a group of already aggrivated people is in essance incitement to violence.

So yes, the punishment is fitting.

The consequences that are loosing livelihood etc are a not entity really.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

Shaking a fence and so IMO causing threatening behaviour towards a group of already aggrivated people is in essance incitement to violence.

So yes, the punishment is fitting.

The consequences that are loosing livelihood etc are a not entity really.

Let's hope you don't have too many beers and shake a fence or swear at someone at the football then shan't we? Otherwise prison it is for you.

Losing your whole livelyhood because of shaking a fence is not significant? Are you nuts?

[Smirking_Saint]

Let's hope you don't have too many beers and shake a fence or swear at someone at the football then shan't we? Otherwise prison it is for you.

Losing your whole livelyhood because of shaking a fence is not significant? Are you nuts?

But it depends in what context though doesn't it ??

And it depends how you describe the action and what other factors you choose to include or exclude.

If i go to football, have a skinfull and cause incitement then yes, i am going to face the consequences.

Don't get me wrong, i am no angel, and have been involved in enough scrapes etc, but esentially a public violent order offence will count against you for merely being involved with others throwing missiles etc and so you will essentially be getting similar sentances to standing next to someone.

It looked ugly, it could have gotten more ugly, if they were really worried about their livelihoods then they would have thought twice.

[CanadaSaint]

Let's hope you don't have too many beers and shake a fence or swear at someone at the football then shan't we? Otherwise prison it is for you.

How about having too many beers and driving a car? If you're caught, that will result in a driving ban and - depending on your work arrangements - the loss of your job.

You caused no damage and didn't hurt anyone, but you were punished for what MIGHT have happened, given your stupidity and contempt for the law. The level of your punishment is based on society's revulsion for that particular offence.

I can see the parallels.

And I have no problem at all with any of that - even if, on the barest of facts - it might seem harsh.

[Gordon Mockles]

Serves the tossers right. So they may be harsh sentences but they need to send a message. Don't want to do time, don't incite violence on our streets your chavvy, hood wearing wastes of space!!

[Smirking_Saint]

How about having too many beers and driving a car? If you're caught, that will result in a driving ban and - depending on your work arrangements - the loss of your job.

You caused no damage and didn't hurt anyone, but you were punished for what MIGHT have happened, given your stupidity and contempt for the law. The level of your punishment is based on society's revulsion for that particular offence.

I can see the parallels.

And I have no problem at all with any of that - even if, on the barest of facts - it might seem harsh.

Nice to see someone else sees my point of view

[JustMike]

not harsh at all really in the light of things. I dont want my kids seeing that sort of behaviour anywhere, let alone at football. They all knew what they were doing, an must have known, if caught would be punished. That said, they can't have too many brain cells between them to get involved with it in the 1st place.

[aintforever]

Anyone who thinks a year in jail for shaking a fence is not harsh is a nob.

[Kingsland Nick]

Some of the sentences do seem excessive, on the information provided, given that last week the (Tory) justice secretary said too many people were being sent to prison.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/jun/14/ken-clarke-prison-sentencing

[aintforever]

You can break somones jaw in 3 places and not even go to jail...

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/8181029.Man_avoids_jail_for_GBH_pub_attack/

But shake a fence you get a year because you just watched a football game.

[aintforever]

Or you can mug someone and not go down...

http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/5076201.Teenager_avoids_jail_over_mugging/

If you're a football fan just be carefull not to shake any fences on your getaway.

[aintforever]

Then there's 5 years for RAPING A 13-MONTH-OLD BABY.

Thats right, if your a football fan and you shake 5 fences and you are as bad as this guy....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3078216.stm

[CanadaSaint]

Then there's 5 years for RAPING A 13-MONTH-OLD BABY.

Thats right, if your a football fan and you shake 5 fences and you are as bad as this guy....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3078216.stm

Instead of sneering at people who don't share your view, and posting examples that - in your view - make your point, could you respond to the question I posed in Post 662?

I'm interested to see how your viewpoint stands up in a drunk driving case.

[Smirking_Saint]

Nice to see Aintforever sticking up for all the thugs.

Ye of little braincells stick together an all that.

If you can't tell the difference between incitement and 2 guys having a punch up you are a nob.

As for your 'evidence' like i said before, you are always going to get cases that are sentanced very very lenientely, but you can't use it as..... 'he got off why can't I'

[brmbrm]

Well, we're on page 14, so that just proves the judge was 100% right: this is a "wake up" message and hopefully a deterrent. If the sentence had been £20 fine then no doubt these hooligans would see it as encouraging even more antisocial behaviour.

Its about time some of these so-called "grown-ups" actually matured a bit, developed some minimal sense of responsibiltuy for their actins and get their ****ing act together.

It Is Illegal. Break The law and go to gaol. Get the point? grow the Fark up FFS

[Turkish]

Nice to see Aintforever sticking up for all the thugs.

Ye of little braincells stick together an all that.

If you can't tell the difference between incitement and 2 guys having a punch up you are a nob.

As for your 'evidence' like i said before, you are always going to get cases that are sentanced very very lenientely, but you can't use it as..... 'he got off why can't I'

but they weren't charged with incitement, they were charged with violent disorder. Nowhere in the charges or press releases are the words incitement mentioned.

[St. Jason]

Nice to see Aintforever sticking up for all the thugs.

Ye of little braincells stick together an all that.

If you can't tell the difference between incitement and 2 guys having a punch up you are a nob.

As for your 'evidence' like i said before, you are always going to get cases that are sentanced very very lenientely, but you can't use it as..... 'he got off why can't I'

I don't think he's "sticking up for all the fug's" but simply saying the sentences are harsh, which they are.

He is also right to use examples of other violent crime and the sentences handed out for said crime. This was not a Saints mob, this was not organised football violence, this was simply fans leaving the stadium and walking home up Belvidere Road only to be greeted by gloating cheering Portsmouth fans the other side of the road. Yes fans ran to the fence, yes there was shouting and fence rattling and things were thrown. Everyone that threw things should of been arrested and charged but even then I think community service or a tag would of sufficed, as for the fence rattling, come on, please!

Was it inciting rival fans or goading? If we are saying chanting and rattling a fence is incitement then surely fans in the Northam and Itchen North stand will be next up in court because i'm sure I heard a few choruses of "my old man" and "when I was just a little boy"!

[chi saint]

Got exactly what they deserved, if you can't do the time etc etc....

Im sure on the day it was a case of the big I am, now how many are sat in a 6x8 wetting themselves where some serious villans reside not wannabees like this sad little lot.

When they get out and if they act like responsible ADULTS then fair enough what's done is done, but learn their lesson they must and I suspect they will.

I wanna go to footie with my kids and not have to witness such idiotic behaviour from frankly men who should know better.

Still perhaps I have misjudged them, perhaps they don't care about being banged up, perhaps cos they can beat up a car or two they are hard and can adapt to their change in life style......nah I doubt it.

[Golden Balls]

Pretty sure nothing this bad happened...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMC1qSRR3yI

[St Steve]

They got it easy compared to these guys.
http://www.hooli-news.co.uk/researchitem.php?15

[aintforever]

Nice to see Aintforever sticking up for all the thugs.

Ye of little braincells stick together an all that.

If you can't tell the difference between incitement and 2 guys having a punch up you are a nob.

As for your 'evidence' like i said before, you are always going to get cases that are sentanced very very lenientely, but you can't use it as..... 'he got off why can't I'

LOL at being accused of having few braincells by someone who doesn't even know the meaning of incitement!

[chi saint]

They got it easy compared to these guys.
http://www.hooli-news.co.uk/researchitem.php?15

Blimey what a waste of pressing a key board that article is.

Whoever wrote it should be ashamed, biased is to kind a word....'I know him, he a good bloke, never seen him throw a punch'....oh yawn. I guess you have to try some sort of defence when your mates are found guilty but I certainly wouldn't want him as my character witness ha ha

[70's Mike]

thing is it will not deter the same sort of behaviour the next time the skates visit SMS, UNLESS you lock em in and move saints fans on , then the same thing will happen again.
the stiff penaltys given to the lads at Charlton a few years back made no difference to this instance

[dune]

thing is it will not deter the same sort of behaviour the next time the skates visit SMS, UNLESS you lock em in and move saints fans on , then the same thing will happen again.
the stiff penaltys given to the lads at Charlton a few years back made no difference to this instance

That's because the impact of those sentences diminished with time. These latest sentences are what we might call a refresher.

[itchen]

I'm amazed this thread is still running, Several pages ago somebody ridiculed the idea that rival fans could go off hand-in-hand and swapping scarves after the game. Well why not (OK maybe not the hand-in-hand bit)?

Most of the time, I can go to Saint Mary's in complete safety and I am sure this is true of most grounds in the country. But, because a lot of people in the past, and a few people today, cannot enjoy friendly rivalry without it turning to violence, football supporters are treated badly by police, stewards, the press and others. We're herded into our own areas. We're forced to sit down (actually I prefer that but I know many people don't) and we can't be trusted to enjoy a pint while we're in sight of the pitch. And we risk fairly tough sentence if we're caught misbehaving. Given that all this has happened because of the actions of a small minority, how can any football supporter defend the actions of the tiny minority of yobs?

[SaintRobbie]

I dont think its extreme. It sends the right message. What's more I hope the Club ban them for life as well.

[70's Mike]

That's because the impact of those sentences diminished with time. These latest sentences are what we might call a refresher.

MAYBE but still do not think they will be a consideration next time we play the skates at SMS

[mack rill]

thing is it will not deter the same sort of behaviour the next time the skates visit SMS, UNLESS you lock em in and move saints fans on , then the same thing will happen again.
the stiff penaltys given to the lads at Charlton a few years back made no difference to this instance

I think it will Mike, How many of our knuckle dragger's were up before the beak this time?

Oh and i see Stupid Romsy and his side kick Delight, have thrown there wight on the side of the window licker's,,,,,Bravo,
Mods I am a Full Member to this site but there must be some restrictions for the blue Few, I cannot find the Fred where Stuey and his side Kick are standing up for the 90 odd nawty fools who rushed off down Fratton RD being very silly in front of Old Bill with his camcorder. They all got to exchange there Nicotine for Vasallin, Both Saints and Pompey supporters were warned (play up) and the punishment would be server.FFS the witnessed what happened to our lot on the last Derby, And they still had to give it Large,,,,,,With luck Derby's will soon be back on the menu, the severity of the sentencing could help make sure all the Aggro is on the pitch.

[benjii]

I haven't looked into what actually did or didn't happen in court as I don't really care. Based on some comments on here though it would seem that Violent Disorder is the charge the people were mostly found guilty of.

Here's the law on violent disorder:


2.-(1)

Where 3 or more persons who are present together

use or threaten unlawful violence and the conduct of them
(taken together) is such as would cause a person of reasonable
firmness present at the scene to fear for his personal safety,
each of the persons using or threatening unlawful violence
is guilty of violent disorder.


(2) It is immaterial whether or not the 3 or more use or
threaten unlawful violence simultaneously.


(3) No person of reasonable firmness need actually be, or be
likely to. be, present at the scene.


(4) Violent disorder may be committed in private as well as in
public places.


(5) A person guilty of violent disorder is liable on conviction
on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years
or a fine or both, or on summary conviction to imprisonment for
a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding the statutory
maximum or both.


So, clearly for anyone to have been convicted of this it would have been necessary for the Crown to show that they used or threatened unlawful violence. I don't think shaking a fence would suffice.


It's also interesting to note that the maximum sentence is 5 years and a fine. So they could have been given more.


As a final point, you cannot whinge about being banged up if you decide to go ape in the presence of most members of the county's police force and they are openly filming you.

[dune]

I think it will Mike, How many of our knuckle dragger's were up before the beak this time?

Oh and i see Stupid Romsy and his side kick Delight, have thrown there wight on the side of the window licker's,,,,,Bravo,
Mods I am a Full Member to this site but there must be some restrictions for the blue Few, I cannot find the Fred where Stuey and his side Kick are standing up for the 90 odd nawty fools who rushed off down Fratton RD being very silly in front of Old Bill with his camcorder. They all got to exchange there Nicotine for Vasallin, Both Saints and Pompey supporters were warned (play up) and the punishment would be server.FFS the witnessed what happened to our lot on the last Derby, And they still had to give it Large,,,,,,With luck Derby's will soon be back on the menu, the severity of the sentencing could help make sure all the Aggro is on the pitch.

Despite the illiteracy one would expect from a Skate i'm in total agreement.

[sotonjoe]

I haven't looked into what actually did or didn't happen in court as I don't really care. Based on some comments on here though it would seem that Violent Disorder is the charge the people were mostly found guilty of.

Here's the law on violent disorder:


2.-(1)

Where 3 or more persons who are present together

use or threaten unlawful violence and the conduct of them
(taken together) is such as would cause a person of reasonable
firmness present at the scene to fear for his personal safety,
each of the persons using or threatening unlawful violence
is guilty of violent disorder.

(2) It is immaterial whether or not the 3 or more use or
threaten unlawful violence simultaneously.

(3) No person of reasonable firmness need actually be, or be
likely to. be, present at the scene.

(4) Violent disorder may be committed in private as well as in
public places.

(5) A person guilty of violent disorder is liable on conviction
on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years
or a fine or both, or on summary conviction to imprisonment for
a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding the statutory
maximum or both.

So, clearly for anyone to have been convicted of this it would have been necessary for the Crown to show that they used or threatened unlawful violence. I don't think shaking a fence would suffice.

It's also interesting to note that the maximum sentence is 5 years and a fine. So they could have been given more.

As a final point, you cannot whinge about being banged up if you decide to go ape in the presence of most members of the county's police force and they are openly filming you.




I think the shaking of a fence fits the description of the law you have posted very well. The law has been carefully worded and suggests that violent disorder can be any act which, if performed within a certain context, could cause somebody fear. It also clearly states that the reasonable person who might be scared can be hypothetical; in other words, they don't actually need to be there. This negates those claims which say this was an unfair sentence because there was "nobody there", or "they weren't shaking a fence" at anybody. That is an irrelevent facor when trying somebody for violent disorder.

The police have clearly utilised the law to its potential here, even if they haven't actually handed out the maximum sentence. Now, debate the rights and wrongs of the violent disorder law if you will, but I don't think there's much to be said when it comes to debating whether or not this behaviour constituted violent disorder. It seems to fit your description very nicely indeed.

[benjii]

Yeah, I mean shaking a fence could be part of a threat to use violent behaviour.

If you are shouting, "come on you kaaaannntss let's ave it" then you might just be being gobby. If you are shouting that whilst apparently trying to circumvent blocades which exist for the express purpose of preventing violence then it is going to be somewhat easier to convince a court you were threatening violence.

The message is clear - if you are in a mob and being lairy in front of a big crowd of police, you're asking for trouble.

[Turkish]

I think it will Mike, How many of our knuckle dragger's were up before the beak this time?

Oh and i see Stupid Romsy and his side kick Delight, have thrown there wight on the side of the window licker's,,,,,Bravo,
Mods I am a Full Member to this site but there must be some restrictions for the blue Few, I cannot find the Fred where Stuey and his side Kick are standing up for the 90 odd nawty fools who rushed off down Fratton RD being very silly in front of Old Bill with his camcorder. They all got to exchange there Nicotine for Vasallin, Both Saints and Pompey supporters were warned (play up) and the punishment would be server.FFS the witnessed what happened to our lot on the last Derby, And they still had to give it Large,,,,,,With luck Derby's will soon be back on the menu, the severity of the sentencing could help make sure all the Aggro is on the pitch.

Hilarious twist on our user names, how long did it take you to think that up? I think you need to read my posts againpal, never once have i defended their actions. What i have said time and time again is that a year upwards in jail for shaking a fence is over the top. Anyway, i'm getting bored with this thread now as most seem to think that if you dont sit on the lock them up and throw away the key side you fully support their behaviour and are incapable of grasping that i dont but compared to other sentances given out, as posted on this forum, theirs were grossly excessive.

[alehouseboys]

It'll be interesting when Saints travel to Havant for the pre-season punch-up...uh, I mean match.

As this 'friendly' fixture has seen a little unrest amongst the locals in the past no doubt Hampshire Constabulary will be as equally intolerant of fence shaking and the like from those present.

[SaintRobbie]

When will we hear from the Club that they have been banned for life?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

It will be interesting to see how far the Police go with this case: Will they continue until all stone or chair throwers/ car smashers/ fence rattlers are convicted? Or will they not rest until all the above are convicted plus all those that were 'having a nose'? For example, I know that a mate of mine was in that melée that day looking for his twin to stop him doing the sorts of things that people have been sent down for: he found him and pulled him out: From what I've read on here, some of you would have him sent down for being 'guilty by association'!

[Wiltshire Saint]

When will we hear from the Club that they have been banned for life?

Knowing the clubs record in informing fans about things, I wouldn't surprised if it's not until the morning of the first day of the season.

Anyway, back on topic, in the first time in years all of my family have got season tickets because they all feel safe in attending the games now that they have seen that their is a detterent for behaving badly. My parents, grandparents, kids and neices and nephews have all got season tickets. A total 18 extra sales because these scum have been dealth with in the correct way. a big well done to the Police and hopefully the club will do the right thing, like Saintribbie says, and ban them for life. If I were the club I would focus in on the friends of these criminals and be looking to find a way of banning them as well, even if there has been no criminal act that the police can deal with.

[70's Mike]

I think it will Mike, How many of our knuckle dragger's were up before the beak this time?

Oh and i see Stupid Romsy and his side kick Delight, have thrown there wight on the side of the window licker's,,,,,Bravo,
Mods I am a Full Member to this site but there must be some restrictions for the blue Few, I cannot find the Fred where Stuey and his side Kick are standing up for the 90 odd nawty fools who rushed off down Fratton RD being very silly in front of Old Bill with his camcorder. They all got to exchange there Nicotine for Vasallin, Both Saints and Pompey supporters were warned (play up) and the punishment would be server.FFS the witnessed what happened to our lot on the last Derby, And they still had to give it Large,,,,,,With luck Derby's will soon be back on the menu, the severity of the sentencing could help make sure all the Aggro is on the pitch.

i would like to think you are right but people have been arrested at saints v skates games ever since i started watching some 50 years ago and i just cannot see it stopping , when we were top dogs your lot kicked off , now it is our lots turn.

[Turkish]

When will we hear from the Club that they have been banned for life?

would it make you feel better?

[100%Red&White]

I see the new Justice Secretary, Ken Clark, is today promising a shake-up for our overcrowded prisons blaming people being locked up with inappropriate sentenances for crimes when community service would be better served. Wonder what his views are on fence rattling. :)

[Dave Benson Phillips]

I wonder how many people that have said lock them up have ever chanted at an way support or flicked the birdie or ever shouted " c'mon then you fakkin cannnnnnnnnts!!!!! "

From my vantage in the Northam, I would say most of you.

[hamster]

I once pinched a Pompey fan in the stomach and then jumped on him, pulling his jumper over his head I then yanked out a handful of hair and stood over him asking if he had had enough.

I avoided a custodial sentence mainly due to me showing remorse and crying. My punishment? Made to say sorry by Mum and not allowed to borrow his Pink Floyd LP's.








I should point out that he started it.

[SaintRobbie]

would it make you feel better?

Yep. I don't want to take my kids to matches that have small minded idiots behaving like this associated with them. Would it bother you if these so called fans were not banned by the club?

I expect the Club to impose some sort of ban to set an example and demonstrate that they do not condone such behaviour.

[Fuengirola Saint]

He is a Tory, what do you expect?

[Denzil]

Yep. I don't want to take my kids to matches that have small minded idiots behaving like this associated with them. Would it bother you if these so called fans were not banned by the club?

I expect the Club to impose some sort of ban to set an example and demonstrate that they do not condone such behaviour.

I agree, shaking a fence and throwing a few bottle lids should carry a lifetime ban from every football stadium in the world.

[Turkish]

Yep. I don't want to take my kids to matches that have small minded idiots behaving like this associated with them. Would it bother you if these so called fans were not banned by the club?

I expect the Club to impose some sort of ban to set an example and demonstrate that they do not condone such behaviour.

They have already been banned by the courts, for 6 years. If the courts which were hell bent on making examples of this lot didn't see fit to impose bans longer than 6 years, 6 years being the minimum ban for a football realted offence when prison sentance is imposed, the maximum is 10, then why would the club? In any case the incident didn't happen inside the ground, or even on club land so why would they ban them for life?

[SaintRobbie]

They have already been banned by the courts, for 6 years. If the courts which were hell bent on making examples of this lot didn't see fit to impose bans longer than 6 years, 6 years being the minimum ban for a football realted offence when prison sentance is imposed, the maximum is 10, then why would the club? In any case the incident didn't happen inside the ground, or even on club land so why would they ban them for life?

I didnt say ban them for life. But I will take the 6 years that the courts have delivered.

[Turkish]

I didnt say ban them for life. But I will take the 6 years that the courts have delivered.


When will we hear from the Club that they have been banned for life?

yes you did.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

pwned

[NickG]

yes you did.

must have been in another post cos that's asking!

[Turkish]

I didnt say ban them for life. But I will take the 6 years that the courts have delivered.


must have been in another post cos that's asking!


I dont think its extreme. It sends the right message. What's more I hope the Club ban them for life as well.

How about this one then? 'Saintrobbie' appears to be desperate to see them banned for life.

[NickG]

ok!

[SaintRobbie]

lol - fair cop Turkish.

But, in reflection I think a 6 year banning order is fair. Given that no one was seriously injured. My point is that Clubs do not seem to be coming out and offering support to the authorities by taking independent action. Saints - Pompey is one of the best fixtures on the footballing calender, both Clubs know that it has potential for violent activitity and both Clubs should offer a zero-tolerance policy as a result.

We have seem fans banned in the past. I wonder if the Club has been given guidance not to act by the FA?

[Turkish]

lol - fair cop Turkish.

But, in reflection I think a 6 year banning order is fair. Given that no one was seriously injured. My point is that Clubs do not seem to be coming out and offering support to the authorities by taking independent action. Saints - Pompey is one of the best fixtures on the footballing calender, both Clubs know that it has potential for violent activitity and both Clubs should offer a zero-tolerance policy as a result.

We have seem fans banned in the past. I wonder if the Club has been given guidance not to act by the FA?

I think it is simply the case that as the incident wasn't on club property the club either aren't interested or feel that the courts have dealt with the issue enough with jail terms and 6 years bans from every ground in the country..

[SFKA South Woodford]

I don't agree with violent disorder of any kind, but do have sympathy for those punished in this instance as the punishment far outweighs the crime.

To those of you that don't, I suggest that you stay away from games against teams where the atmosphere may get a bit heated especially against any of our local rivals, as by the letter or rather inference of the violent disorder law all of us in the ground are guilty by association and seeing as you are all whiter than white, you cannot have your good names besmirched by the actions of the rest of the crowd.

[saintjay77]

Christ on a bike is this still going?

People should be able to enjoy watching football without the threat of violence of any kind. If the authorities think its right to dish out stupid punishments compared to other crimes because they think this will result in less threat of violence then who can argue?

Im quite impressed that the world cup has gone on with no segragation and no issues and if South Africa can do it then it kinda take the P out of the home of football and all its rivalry doesnt it?

[tonibell]

Another 15 up in the Crown Court tomorrow 17 August so maybe more prison sentences handed out tomorrow

[JRM]

Another 15 up in the Crown Court tomorrow 17 August so maybe more prison sentences handed out tomorrow

how many will that make it? for a nothing incident, this country really is a joke, makes me sick that they get away treating football fans like this. And football bans are a restriction of libery that should be revoked by the government.

and on the same day you get stories like this in the echo http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/8333601.Child_porn_downloader_escapes_jail_sentenc e/

just lucky he didnt shake a fence in the direction of those kids

[Langleysaint]

how many will that make it? for a nothing incident, this country really is a joke, makes me sick that they get away treating football fans like this. And football bans are a restriction of libery that should be revoked by the government.

and on the same day you get stories like this in the echo http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/8333601.Child_porn_downloader_escapes_jail_sentenc e/

just lucky he didnt shake a fence in the direction of those kids

Totally agree with the above , so much for British Justice when football supporters who do deserve some kind of punishment get prison sentences while Kiddie fiddlers walk free , TOTAL DISGRACE.

[mack rill]

Both sets of supporters were warned by old bill (be Nawty, and the punishment would be Harsh.)
Nealy 100 of us the blue few exchanged our nicotine for Vaseline, after the little (kneesup muver brown) at our gaff,
You lot should expect the same.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

More were arrested against Reading and Plymouth in relation to the P*mpey game. As well as some arrested last week for invading the pitch at the Southend game.

OB are squeezing every last charge out possible it seems.

[ohwhenthesaints]

More were arrested against Reading and Plymouth in relation to the P*mpey game. As well as some arrested last week for invading the pitch at the Southend game.

OB are squeezing every last charge out possible it seems.

Ah so that's why they had the cameras out again is it? Did find the massive police presence at the Plymouth game odd.

[JRM]

There were also a couple of arrests at the bournemouth game for incredibly minor verbals between saints and their fans, guess which side got arrested? Someone has been targeted with getting the banning numbers up and trying every trick possible to do it.

[Junction 9]

Didn't the club/police state they were having a zero tolerance policy for Saints fans this season? It was in the Echo I'm sure, so they have pre-warned everyone.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

Didn't the club/police state they were having a zero tolerance policy for Saints fans this season? It was in the Echo I'm sure, so they have pre-warned everyone.

Banter and verbals between home and away fans are part and parcel of the game. They happen in every single ground in the world.

Next they will have us all stood outside giving the away fans a guard of honour and applause as they enter/leave the stadium. Pathetic.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

My guess is that Nicola Cortese has asked for the old bill to crack down on this type of behaviour.

[Junction 9]

Banter and verbals between home and away fans are part and parcel of the game. They happen in every single ground in the world.

Next they will have us all stood outside giving the away fans a guard of honour and applause as they enter/leave the stadium. Pathetic.

All I'm saying is that people shouldn't be surprised at a higher police presence or a change of tactics this season. They have stated they were going to do it and are doing so.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

All I'm saying is that people shouldn't be surprised at a higher police presence or a change of tactics this season. They have stated they were going to do it and are doing so.

For violent offences, yeah sure, no problem with that... but running on the pitch at the end of the season? Exchanging a few verbals? Really?

[Dalek2003]

Christ on a bike is this still going?

People should be able to enjoy watching football without the threat of violence of any kind. If the authorities think its right to dish out stupid punishments compared to other crimes because they think this will result in less threat of violence then who can argue?

Im quite impressed that the world cup has gone on with no segragation and no issues and if South Africa can do it then it kinda take the P out of the home of football and all its rivalry doesnt it?

totally agree with these sentiments.

[dune]

For violent offences, yeah sure, no problem with that... but running on the pitch at the end of the season? Exchanging a few verbals? Really?

If you were out shopping and a drunk was swearing at shoppers would you consider that acceptable behaviour?

[saint_bert]

Banter and verbals between home and away fans are part and parcel of the game. They happen in every single ground in the world.

Next they will have us all stood outside giving the away fans a guard of honour and applause as they enter/leave the stadium. Pathetic.

When Lallana scored my mate was giving the Bournemouth fans a bit of stick. Not silly, just what you would expect.

A copper stopped him, and said any more of that and your nicked.

Whats it coming too?

[dune]

When Lallana scored my mate was giving the Bournemouth fans a bit of stick. Not silly, just what you would expect.

A copper stopped him, and said any more of that and your nicked.

Whats it coming too?

That is bad. I can understand the police not accepting swearing and posturing outside the stadium, but inside it's just banter.

[brmbrm]

Banter and verbals between home and away fans are part and parcel of the game. .

But it wasn't just banter and verbals, was it?

[brmbrm]

how many will that make it? for a nothing incident, this country really is a joke, makes me sick that they get away treating football fans like this. And football bans are a restriction of libery that should be revoked by the government.
/

I assume you had sarcasm <on> here. Why on earth should football fans be above the law?

[rocknrollman no2]

I assume you had sarcasm <on> here. Why on earth should football fans be above the law?

I dont think anyone thinks footy fans should be above the law brmbrm,most would just settle for being treated fairly by it.

[The Cat]

I once got threatened with arrest while stood in the Archers singing "Eyal Berkovic what a ******, what a ******" when he came back to the Dell with West Ham.

Copper said "anymore of that language and you're nicked". I asked him why considering there were well over 500 people singing the song, to which he replied "but you're the nearest". Mental.

Seems like a change in policing policy recently. Let things get a bit heated and stand back, film the lot and make loads of arrests afterwards. Might it not be better to try and stop things getting out of hand in the first place.

[wessex saint]

totally agree with these sentiments.

Mmm .. me too sort of...
There's obviously an agenda going on to get shot of the little twits who have recently been causing grief at home and away games (I think they're called the Romsey Massive.. or sometimes Stu's mates--obviously he is NEVER involved in any incidents but unfortunately just happens to witness them all).
Anyhow the SA World Cup passed off without incident cos it was too faraway and too expensive for the orrible little chavs who would have caused grief.
BTW.. opening local news item last Monday was about how a load of Bristol City fans attacked a coach of Millwall after the game.. well away from the ground - smashing windows - a guy got dragged out and kicked to ****.. those ass holes are still out there and they're just waiting for the opportunity.
Ban the ****ers looking for trouble and I'll feel a lot safer taking my boy to games...

[La BoIS Saint]

There is a world of difference between a few verbals, part of the fun of going away, and actual physical violence.

[wessex saint]

There is a world of difference between a few verbals, part of the fun of going away, and actual physical violence.

i agree

[Arizona]

Mmm .. me too sort of...
There's obviously an agenda going on to get shot of the little twits who have recently been causing grief at home and away games (I think they're called the Romsey Massive.. or sometimes Stu's mates--obviously he is NEVER involved in any incidents but unfortunately just happens to witness them all).
Anyhow the SA World Cup passed off without incident cos it was too faraway and too expensive for the orrible little chavs who would have caused grief.
BTW.. opening local news item last Monday was about how a load of Bristol City fans attacked a coach of Millwall after the game.. well away from the ground - smashing windows - a guy got dragged out and kicked to ****.. those ass holes are still out there and they're just waiting for the opportunity.
Ban the ****ers looking for trouble and I'll feel a lot safer taking my boy to games...

Was out running through Bristol at the time they were kicking out the Millwall fans. Large herd being Shepherded through the centre of town. Didn't see any violence as such because there was a small army of Police lining the streets, but there was a nasty atmosphere. Somehow ended up in the middle of a group of Millwall fans, then suddenly one shouted, "City fans!" and they all legged it down the street after them. Nasty atmosphere.

[wessex saint]

Was out running through Bristol at the time they were kicking out the Millwall fans. Large herd being Shepherded through the centre of town. Didn't see any violence as such because there was a small army of Police lining the streets, but there was a nasty atmosphere. Somehow ended up in the middle of a group of Millwall fans, then suddenly one shouted, "City fans!" and they all legged it down the street after them. Nasty atmosphere.

thay showed cctv of the attack... all kicked off whilst 'scarfers' like me and my boy walked past.
Looked bloody nasty and bc FANS were guilty of being proper nasty. BIG 'sigh'.... hope the coppers have got a grip on our nasty little chavs...

[JRM]

1) for those of you who delight in labelling people 'little chavs' are just being snobs, football has always been a tribal game where young working class lads have gone along together, its not Rugby and if it becomes like that it will be a sad day. 2) you seem to be missing the fact the old bill are going after saints fans trying to issue bans all over the place, compared to most clubs are support is already sedate and boring there really isn't a problem that the echo story tried to portray. Football is an easy source of arrests for them.

[dune]

1) for those of you who delight in labelling people 'little chavs' are just being snobs, football has always been a tribal game where young working class lads have gone along together, its not Rugby and if it becomes like that it will be a sad day. 2) you seem to be missing the fact the old bill are going after saints fans trying to issue bans all over the place, compared to most clubs are support is already sedate and boring there really isn't a problem that the echo story tried to portray. Football is an easy source of arrests for them.

Why did you use the term "sedate and boring" instead of law abiding and civilised?

Also the vast majority of working class youngsters are not feral yobs.

[mehball]

The CPS would not prosecute unless there is sufficient evidence. These people have not just "rattled" a fence. They were probably picked up outside the ground on camera folding a brick or a stick. Whether they used it or not is not the case, the intention was there and that would be enough for prosecution.

[Turkish]

The CPS would not prosecute unless there is sufficient evidence. These people have not just "rattled" a fence. They were probably picked up outside the ground on camera folding a brick or a stick. Whether they used it or not is not the case, the intention was there and that would be enough for prosecution.

Stephen Jordan, 49, of the same address, who pushed and pulled at the fencing, told police it seemed the good opportunity for “a toe to toe” fight. It was feared his business, which employed 14 people, would go under with a prison sentence.

Michael Byles, 24, of Aldermoor Road, Southampton, handed himself after seeing his picture in the Daily Echo. He had been filmed grabbing the fence and shouting aggressively

From the echo website, two jailed for grabbing or shaking a fence. One of which has a business, unlike the child porn businessman he was not spared jail due to this though.

Although to be fair i would probably jail someone for 'folding a brick' they must be as strong as Sansom.

[mehball]

Stephen Jordan, 49, of the same address, who pushed and pulled at the fencing, told police it seemed the good opportunity for “a toe to toe” fight. It was feared his business, which employed 14 people, would go under with a prison sentence.

Michael Byles, 24, of Aldermoor Road, Southampton, handed himself after seeing his picture in the Daily Echo. He had been filmed grabbing the fence and shouting aggressively

From the echo website, two jailed for grabbing or shaking a fence. One of which has a business, unlike the child porn businessman he was not spared jail due to this though.

Although to be fair i would probably jail someone for 'folding a brick' they must be as strong as Sansom.

Well then they should have gone for a beer after the game instead of shouting aggressively. If the police weren't between the fans im sure they wouldn't have acted so "hard" They are grown men. Maybe they should grow up a little.

[Turkish]

Well then they should have gone for a beer after the game instead of shouting aggressively. If the police weren't between the fans im sure they wouldn't have acted so "hard" They are grown men. Maybe they should grow up a little.

They couldn't all the pubs were shut. In anycase regardless of what they should have done, do you agree or not, that jail for shaking a fence and shouting is ridiculous? Particularly in consideration that the child porn guy was spared jail due to the effect on his business and the guy here was not.

[dune]

Stephen Jordan, 49

This was the father of another yob arrested. I can unserstand how some immature youngsters might get carried away in the heat of the moment but this guy is almost a pensioner ffs.

[CB Saint]

Stephen Jordan, 49, of the same address, who pushed and pulled at the fencing, told police it seemed the good opportunity for “a toe to toe” fight. It was feared his business, which employed 14 people, would go under with a prison sentence.

Michael Byles, 24, of Aldermoor Road, Southampton, handed himself after seeing his picture in the Daily Echo. He had been filmed grabbing the fence and shouting aggressively

From the echo website, two jailed for grabbing or shaking a fence. One of which has a business, unlike the child porn businessman he was not spared jail due to this though.

Although to be fair i would probably jail someone for 'folding a brick' they must be as strong as Sansom.

You would like to think that he was old enough and, with a good size business, responsible enough to know better. -In his case it wasn't just the fence shaking, it was the intent to have a good "toe to toe" fight.

There are evidently issues with sentancing but everyone knows the score, if it's football related the penalties are magnified - so don't do it.

[KK the 2nd]

I do not condone violence or threatening behaviour in anyway, these people are adults and should be held accountable for their actions. However I believe justice and punishment should be fair and proportionate. This seems absurd. By all means prosecute but surely a fine or community service would be more appropriate.

[Turkish]

I do not condone violence or threatening behaviour in anyway, these people are adults and should be held accountable for their actions. However I believe justice and punishment should be fair and proportionate. This seems absurd. By all means prosecute but surely a fine or community service would be more appropriate.

My thoughts exactly, no one is saying there should be no punishment, but a fine, community services, maybe even just a three year football ban with the threat of something more severe if caught again would suffice. Most of these guys weren't know to the police as troublemakers, what it is is a good story for the echo, who absolutely loved it, headline news on 6 occasions now i believe and a few easy nickings and a bit redemptin for the police who IMO created a situation where this could have happened by letting both sets of fans out at the same time.

[dune]

I do not condone violence or threatening behaviour in anyway, these people are adults and should be held accountable for their actions. However I believe justice and punishment should be fair and proportionate. This seems absurd. By all means prosecute but surely a fine or community service would be more appropriate.

A fine or comunity service sends out the message to the yobs that they can misbehave and get a slap on the wrist. These sentences were all about issuing a detterent to others and imo they will serve the purpose and we will see a reduction in trouble at Saints games.