Saganowski goes on loan

[Nexstar]

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/?page_id=10414

Hardly suprising really.

[Um Bongo]

Odd time to annouce it, 11.30 on a thursday evening. I think there is even bigger news to be annoucned tomorrow. ;)

[saint_stevo]

good luck to him

[Dannyboy_Saint]

Gets him off our wage bill and him a chance to play 1st team football for half a season at least. Shame really as i would have liked to have seen him prove how good he can be but with the other strikers ahead of him he was unlikely to get the run in the side required to get his confidence back. Good luck to him.

[EFM]

Personally I am absolutely gutted at this news whether expected or not. He's potentially a class above anyone else we've got up front IMO.

[Saint Charlie]

As Jan said tonight, his heart and head arent at Saints, we need committed players! Plus the guy only scored 3 goals lasyt season. If we keep John and let Rasiak (plus Saga) go then thats fine by me, all te better if we buy a cheap striker with potential from somewhere.

[TopGun]

Inevitable. Guys like Lallana to do a cheaper job.

[Saints foreva]

Shame. :(

Good luck Saga!

[Ludwig]

Odd time to annouce it, 11.30 on a thursday evening. I think there is even bigger news to be annoucned tomorrow. ;)

It's hardly bigger news, but I heard a rumour Rasiak may sign for Watford tomorrow.

[Um Bongo]

LOL at anyone who got him on their new shirts.

So did i Buzzin, from you i think.

[saint_stevo]

It's hardly bigger news, but I heard a rumour Rasiak may sign for Watford tomorrow.

Thats funny, i heard Watford were on the brink of Administration?

[Saint Charlie]

Thats funny, i heard Watford were on the brink of Administration?


Yeah they seem in just as bad if not worse a financial position as us. I think Ras will go soon but I wouldnt have thought to Watford

[Ludwig]

Thats funny, i heard Watford were on the brink of Administration?

You heard slightly wrong. Overblown stuff. They've sold Henderson and ****tu for £4M combined recently. They'll need to spend to have any chance of a decent finish. I reckon they'll get a striker on loan for a small-ish fee with a view to a permanent in January. Rumour around here is that it could well be Rasiak.

[TopGun]

Get back to your Watford corner Buzz. And I'm impressed with the mods that they speeded through your £5 miscellany of postal orders, stamps and milk top bottles.

[St Landrew]

Sad. Despite his lack of goals last season, I still think Saga is class. But if he wants to go then it's probably best for him and us.

[Ludwig]

Get back to your Watford corner Buzz. And I'm impressed with the mods that they speeded through your £5 miscellany of postal orders, stamps and milk top bottles.

Merely stating a rumour that's Saints related that's spreading around Watford.

[CB Fry]

Amazing really. Anyone remember this time last year when this forum was going into meltdown when it looked like we might not sign Saga?

Absolute uproar about how much of a disgrace it would be if we didn't etc etc etc.

Saga is a classic example of a player that if we didn't sign him permanently people would be going on about him forever more as the person that could have taken us to the next level etc etc.

Now? On your bike son.

[TopGun]

He's not Marian Pahars really is he?

[wojtop]

Just read an opinion by Saga about this transfer. He says he was very frustrated with the way he was treated after Euro in FC Saints. He was literally forced out of the club - the chairman decided that the coach should not even consider Saga as the first team player due to his high contract. The reason why the agreement was signed today in the evening is a deadline for Aalborg to submit the list of players entitled to play in the last round of Champions League qualifications against FBK Kaunas - set to midnight.

[Papa Shango]

A shame IMO. Good luck to him in Denmark. Will never forget his hatrick at Wolves, one of the best away games ever.

[Stu Man Do]

Disappointing really would have prefered to see Rasiak got shot off looked like he couldnt be arsed tuesday evening vs Stoke. Personally I think Saga would provide better value and is a more likely straight swap with Dave Mcgoldrick when he "scores" the general lack of goals I still think he will score. Hopefully he'll prove me wrong though!

[Saint Matty 76]

LOL at anyone who got him on their new shirts.

So did i Buzzin, from you i think.

I got Schneirderlin. :D

[westofshannonsaint]

Personally I am absolutely gutted at this news whether expected or not. He's potentially a class above anyone else we've got up front IMO.

agreed, although I thought he would have done better with us after his brilliant start, even if he did spend alot of time last year on the bench.

That said, when he came to Saints first there were mummers on here that he plays well to get a contract & then gets lazy.

[Matthew Le God]

I got Schneirderlin. :D

thats just as bad because it is spelt Schneiderlin ;) :D

[AwaySaint1]

Just visited the link above and noticed the pic.

Does or has in the past bwp have or had a girlfriend?

I realise that he lives with Dyer but this picture on the front page of the main site seems subliminal>

http://c.imagehost.org/0360/player-05.jpg

[LaptopSaint]

Why the Indian flag?

[alpine_saint]

Very depressing. I would have kept him and got rid of Rasiak or John, since they are similar. Especially as again we've got no money for him, and wonder how much of his wages we are still paying...

What's even more depressing is the accusation further up that this is Lowe's decision and not Portvilet's....

I wonder if worse is to come. I suppose anybody who didnt play the first half against Stoke (except Killer) is up for grabs.

I have a genuine issue with going into a fresh camapign with McGoldrick as first-choice forward. I dont think he's up to it, or will be gone at Xmas if he demonstrates that he is....

My mid-table optimism of yesterday has somewhat evaporated.......

[saintwarwick]

Very depressing. I would have kept him and got rid of Rasiak or John, since they are similar. Especially as again we've got no money for him, and wonder how much of his wages we are still paying...

What's even more depressing is the accusation further up that this is Lowe's decision and not Portvilet's....

I wonder if worse is to come. I suppose anybody who didnt play the first half against Stoke (except Killer) is up for grabs.

I have a genuine issue with going into a fresh camapign with McGoldrick as first-choice forward. I dont think he's up to it, or will be gone at Xmas if he demonstrates that he is....

My mid-table optimism of yesterday has somewhat evaporated.......

You mean you didn't know about the cull that was to happen? Get real, the teams we have set out to play speak for themselves, the bit part players are the ones that are going whether you, me or others like it. We need to lower the wage bill. Gathered from a lot of opinions from pre season at least we are playing footy so at least there is a bit of optimism, something you know nothing about.

[Andy Durman]

I'm not unhappy. I feel that our new style does not suit him.

Good luck and I hope you play the best football of your life

[alpine_saint]

You mean you didn't know about the cull that was to happen? Get real, the teams we have set out to play speak for themselves, the bit part players are the ones that are going whether you, me or others like it. We need to lower the wage bill. Gathered from a lot of opinions from pre season at least we are playing footy so at least there is a bit of optimism, something you know nothing about.

Whatever. I didnt think Saganowski would be one of those sold because he offers something different and I am not convinced by the great McG experiment.

What's with the aggression ?
Why cant you hack someone not agreeing with you ?
Why should everyone embrace the new set-up without question ?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

This move will make it 11 different clubs before the age of 30 for Saganowski , that should tell you something . If you look at this players record he's really only managed to be consistently successful when playing in his home country - trust Southampton Football Club to employ the only Pole who doesn't work well abroad !

[peacey]

Ok so i understand we are going to depend on the younger members of the squad this season, but surley this doesnt mean getting rid of every player over the age of 28 apart from Svennson and perry of does it???!!!! [Lowe you f*cking mug]
This is just stupid and i feel if we continue to do this and go down this road we will struggle badly this season. You carnt rely onh a team full of youngsters for the whole season, and i feel the likes of S.John, Euell, Thomas, Rasiak and co have to be used during the season if we are to have any chance of staying up.
I bet Rupert Lowe has told Jan to do this and that it has nothing to do with the manager wot so ever. It seems if your over a certain age you just wont play for Southampton no matter how good you are.

What can i say? I am a trully gutted Saints fan [Rupert die!]

[alpine_saint]

Lowe wants maximum shop-front exposure for the youngsters just in case a couple shape up and become decent players...

Still not convinced bringing back the good times at SFC is high priority for him....

[saintwarwick]

1) whatever. I didnt think saganowski would be one of those sold because he offers something different and i am not convinced by the great mcg experiment.

2) what's with the aggression ?
3) why cant you hack someone not agreeing with you ?
4) why should everyone embrace the new set-up without question ?

1) I agree Saggy offers something different and would like him to stay but we all know the financial circumstances surrounding us.

2) Didn't see any aggression in my post, only counter arguments.
3) Pot, kettle, black.
4) You have to see this through the eyes at the game, without that there is no question.

[Red and White Army]

What can i say? I am a trully gutted Saints fan [Rupert die!]

Sigh.

[BARCELONASAINT]

Ok so i understand we are going to depend on the younger members of the squad this season, but surley this doesnt mean getting rid of every player over the age of 28 apart from Svennson and perry of does it???!!!! [Lowe you f*cking mug]
This is just stupid and i feel if we continue to do this and go down this road we will struggle badly this season. You carnt rely onh a team full of youngsters for the whole season, and i feel the likes of S.John, Euell, Thomas, Rasiak and co have to be used during the season if we are to have any chance of staying up.
I bet Rupert Lowe has told Jan to do this and that it has nothing to do with the manager wot so ever. It seems if your over a certain age you just wont play for Southampton no matter how good you are.

What can i say? I am a trully gutted Saints fan [Rupert die!]

Oh dear oh dear, have you gone the whole pre-season with your eyes shut or what, or do you just choose to ignore what everyone else knows because of your blind hatred of one man.
Like it or not SFC are still in a position where they desperately need to cut the wage bill. Have you not seen what has happened again to Bournemouth?
You seem to think RL does this just to **** fans off. He doesnt give a stuff about your opinion or mine, he is a money man and his priority is getting SFC back on an even keel even if that means some unpopular decisions.

I am disappointed Saga has gone, i too expected great things from him but i would rather still have a football club than it suffer the same fate as Bournemouth.

[Greenridge]

You mean you didn't know about the cull that was to happen? Get real, the teams we have set out to play speak for themselves, the bit part players are the ones that are going whether you, me or others like it. We need to lower the wage bill. Gathered from a lot of opinions from pre season at least we are playing footy so at least there is a bit of optimism, something you know nothing about.

I don't always see eye to eye with Alpine but on this one I do. And why the attitude with the post? Saga is / was a 'bit part' player due to mismanagement by Burley during the course of last year however he really seems the best option we have to fit in with the new formation. As with many, I have massive doubts of DMG being our number one striker and a few pre-season goals won't change that opinion.

Saga's amount of clubs is worrying there is no doubt but I still see him as the best option. The whole scenario, as confirmed by JP, doesn't have a lot to do with ability but solely costs (wages). If you believe anything else you are in cloud cuckoo land. If we can get the equivalent for less then absolutely that is sound business sense. However if it results in a team that is unable to maintain it's CCC status then it is quite clearly not.

[Professor]

Isn't Saga a case of someone who looked good for the first few games and then never reached that level again? Or maybe was never so committed once he had a contract and a regular payslip. Rasiak next but hopefully keep Stern as second choice to DMG.

[NickG]

Ok so i understand we are going to depend on the younger members of the squad this season, but surley this doesnt mean getting rid of every player over the age of 28 apart from Svennson and perry of does it???!!!! [Lowe you f*cking mug]
This is just stupid and i feel if we continue to do this and go down this road we will struggle badly this season. You carnt rely onh a team full of youngsters for the whole season, and i feel the likes of S.John, Euell, Thomas, Rasiak and co have to be used during the season if we are to have any chance of staying up.
I bet Rupert Lowe has told Jan to do this and that it has nothing to do with the manager wot so ever. It seems if your over a certain age you just wont play for Southampton no matter how good you are.

What can i say? I am a trully gutted Saints fan [Rupert die!]

sure they could be used but could they have been paid? Get realistic not personal, its not complicated -we have no money!

[NickG]

Lowe wants maximum shop-front exposure for the youngsters just in case a couple shape up and become decent players...

Still not convinced bringing back the good times at SFC is high priority for him....

no solvency is

[tiger]

Personally I am absolutely gutted at this news whether expected or not. He's potentially a class above anyone else we've got up front IMO.


I agree entirely. Burley treated him badly last year and as a result he lost confidence but mark my words he is twice the player McGoldrick is and by November we will crying out for his return. Lowe has told David McG he is first choice and nothing else matters.

[alpine_saint]

no solvency is

Why dont some people realise the two things go hand-in-hand ?

He can achieve short-term solvency by flogging off our decent players, but when the poor results cause the early optimisim to evaporate and the attendances plummet, there will still be issues to answer for to the creditors.

[alpine_saint]

I agree entirely. Burley treated him badly last year and as a result he lost confidence but mark my words he is twice the player McGoldrick is and by November we will crying out for his return. Lowe has told David McG he is first choice and nothing else matters.

Yep. Watch the panic set in when the goals dont come..

[SNSUN]

Who knows - if we can sort out the finances by next summer, I did say if!, he could stay. Dependant on what division we're in of course...

[Wes Tender]

Just read an opinion by Saga about this transfer. He says he was very frustrated with the way he was treated after Euro in FC Saints. He was literally forced out of the club - the chairman decided that the coach should not even consider Saga as the first team player due to his high contract. The reason why the agreement was signed today in the evening is a deadline for Aalborg to submit the list of players entitled to play in the last round of Champions League qualifications against FBK Kaunas - set to midnight.

Which chairman was this? The football chairman or the PLC chairman? The organ grinder, or the monkey?

Anyway, there's goes some more quality out of the squad. Now let's watch him show his worth in the Champions league.

[musesaint]

Personally I am absolutely gutted at this news whether expected or not. He's potentially a class above anyone else we've got up front IMO.

And ideal for his movement if we are going to play most of the season with kids

FFS!

[um pahars]

Amazing really. Anyone remember this time last year when this forum was going into meltdown when it looked like we might not sign Saga?

Absolute uproar about how much of a disgrace it would be if we didn't etc etc etc.

Saga is a classic example of a player that if we didn't sign him permanently people would be going on about him forever more as the person that could have taken us to the next level etc etc.

Now? On your bike son.

Absolutely spot on.

The fickleness of football fans knows no bounds.

I would love to be able to have a look at the sign Saga thread from last summer when people were thumping the keyboard.

The only consolation is that exactly the same thing has happened with a number of players over the years.

As for Saga himself, we really should be asking why having spent a million on him the manager never really played him.

And like some of the other players, I would imagine your motivation might be affected having been clearly told that you will be shipped out.

[musesaint]

Very depressing. I would have kept him and got rid of Rasiak or John, since they are similar. Especially as again we've got no money for him, and wonder how much of his wages we are still paying...

What's even more depressing is the accusation further up that this is Lowe's decision and not Portvilet's....

I wonder if worse is to come. I suppose anybody who didnt play the first half against Stoke (except Killer) is up for grabs.

I have a genuine issue with going into a fresh camapign with McGoldrick as first-choice forward. I dont think he's up to it, or will be gone at Xmas if he demonstrates that he is....

My mid-table optimism of yesterday has somewhat evaporated.......

Feeling very worried this morning ...not just because of Saga's loan .....but mainly because I find myself in the disturbing position of agreeing with Alpine!! FFS!

[alpine_saint]

Absolutely spot on.

The fickleness of football fans knows no bounds.

I would love to be able to have a look at the sign Saga thread from last summer when people were thumping the keyboard.

The only consolation is that exactly the same thing has happened with a number of players over the years.

As for Saga himself, we really should be asking why having spent a million on him the manager never really played him.

And like some of the other players, I would imagine your motivation might be affected having been clearly told that you will be shipped out.

Yep, but those of us who rate him, complained about the time it took to sign him and are complaining about his loan are accused of being the negative fickle ones....

[um pahars]

Yep, but those of us who rate him, complained about the time it took to sign him and are complaining about his loan are accused of being the negative fickle ones....

I don't think that's fickle, if anything that's being consistent.

Being fickle would be thumping the keyboard last summer saying,

"Why are they ****ing around, sign him up now etc etc etc?",

and then this summer saying,

"No great loss, he was only playing for the contract etc etc etc".

[alpine_saint]

I don't think that's fickle, if anything that's being consistent.

Being fickle would be thumping the keyboard last summer saying,

"Why are they ****ing around, sign him up now etc etc etc?",

and then this summer saying,

"No great loss, he was only playing for the contract etc etc etc".

Yep, completely agree. Some people should be ashamed.

Supporting the new regime is one thing, blithey accepting the Gopsel they send down from Mount Siani over every issue is ridiculous.

[70's Mike]

Yep, completely agree. Some people should be ashamed.

Supporting the new regime is one thing, blithey accepting the Gopsel they send down from Mount Siani over every issue is ridiculous.

Totally agree it is the blind allegiance which confounds me.
I really believe that youngsters should be given a chance but to have a chance they need experience around them on the pitch.
A few injuries/suspensions could lead to the whole starting 11 being untried youngsters

[NickG]

Why dont some people realise the two things go hand-in-hand ?

He can achieve short-term solvency by flogging off our decent players, but when the poor results cause the early optimisim to evaporate and the attendances plummet, there will still be issues to answer for to the creditors.

the books have to balance first, we can only have the players we can afford. Its not complicated. To make it easier to understand, would it make sense to sign top premiership players we can't afford on the basis that we may get better results, crowds and promotion but then go bust?

[um pahars]

the books have to balance first, we can only have the players we can afford. Its not complicated. To make it easier to understand, would it make sense to sign top premiership players we can't afford on the basis that we may get better results, crowds and promotion but then go bust?

I would like to think that most people now understand the perilous financial situation we now find ourselves in, but there also has to be a balance between slashing & burning and getting the mix right.

I could could get you a team with a wage bill of under £1m, which would solve the Club's financial problems (in the short term anyway), but their results would make Derby's Premiership points score look mammoth.

Any fool (or accountant) can cut costs, but those that are worth their corn will ensure that the company has enough not only to survive, but to propser going forward.

The big question is have the current lot got the nous to do the latter?

[NickG]

we do not know where the balance lies so unfortunately have to trust those who do

[John B]

the books have to balance first, we can only have the players we can afford. Its not complicated. To make it easier to understand, would it make sense to sign top premiership players we can't afford on the basis that we may get better results, crowds and promotion but then go bust?

NickG I too do not understand these posts regarding keeping expensive players.

We are indeed in serious financial trouble and we are not going to get promoted for some time so as long as we remain in the Championship I do not see there is a real problem.

[John B]

I would like to think that most people now understand the perilous financial situation we now find ourselves in, but there also has to be a balance between slashing & burning and getting the mix right.

I could could get you a team with a wage bill of under £1m, which would solve the Club's financial problems (in the short term anyway), but their results would make Derby's Premiership points score look mammoth.

Any fool (or accountant) can cut costs, but those that are worth their corn will ensure that the company has enough not only to survive, but to propser going forward.

The big question is have the current lot got the nous to do the latter?

That could be said about most clubs

[um pahars]

we do not know where the balance lies so unfortunately have to trust those who do

And therein lies the crux of the problem for me, in that I find it very difficult to trust individuals who between them so spectacularly fkuced it up last time around.

The manager, players and Club will get my support, that's always comes without any reservations, but that doesn't mean that I don't have massive doubts over those in control (and for very good reasons IMHO).

[s0108787]

I would like to think that most people now understand the perilous financial situation we now find ourselves in, but there also has to be a balance between slashing & burning and getting the mix right.

I could could get you a team with a wage bill of under £1m, which would solve the Club's financial problems (in the short term anyway), but their results would make Derby's Premiership points score look mammoth.

Any fool (or accountant) can cut costs, but those that are worth their corn will ensure that the company has enough not only to survive, but to propser going forward.

The big question is have the current lot got the nous to do the latter?

Have none of you lot been to see our youngsters play, or are you actually blind?

We are in NO danger of going down. We WILL to better than last season FACT.

I will go to the bookies and put money on us making the playoffs this season.

And before anyone starts, i'm not following the "new regime" blindly, i'm judging on what i've seen with my own eyes.

[eurosaint]

Have none of you lot been to see our youngsters play, or are you actually blind?

We are in NO danger of going down. We WILL to better than last season FACT.

I will go to the bookies and put money on us making the playoffs this season.

And before anyone starts, i'm not following the "new regime" blindly, i'm judging on what i've seen with my own eyes.
:)
Reasons to be cheerful, part 1 !
:)

[s0108787]

:)
Reasons to be cheerful, part 1 !
:)

Damn right! ;)

[toofarnorth]

We all know where we are financially and the need to trim wages. Hopefully this will get him some exposure so a larger fee will be forthcoming in January. Same with Rasiak as far as i'm concerned.

I still think John should be the first choice lone striker and I hope we see this happen after the Cardiff game as he did well for us last season. Obviously if McG does well on Saturday I may have to change my mind.

[70's Mike]

We all know where we are financially and the need to trim wages. Hopefully this will get him some exposure so a larger fee will be forthcoming in January. Same with Rasiak as far as i'm concerned.

I still think John should be the first choice lone striker and I hope we see this happen after the Cardiff game as he did well for us last season. Obviously if McG does well on Saturday I may have to change my mind.


Problem with Stern is he is not mobile enough for the style we are trying to play, his control is not brilliant and players making runs past him will be exposed if he cannot control and pass

[alpine_saint]

the books have to balance first, we can only have the players we can afford. Its not complicated. To make it easier to understand, would it make sense to sign top premiership players we can't afford on the basis that we may get better results, crowds and promotion but then go bust?

Jesus, why is it so difficult to understand that low costs with low revenue is no better than higher costs with higher revenue ??

There is a colossally arrogant assumption doing the rounds that Lowe can slash and burn yet still rely on the same revenue whatever the results. Where this comes from, heaven knows, but its ridiculous..

[Saint Charlie]

We will miss his three goals...(in about 30 games).

[alpine_saint]

we do not know where the balance lies so unfortunately have to trust those who do

Wow, trust Lowe who managed to turn a silk purse into a sow's ear, and trust Wilde who is away with the fairies.

I'm convinced...

[70's Mike]

Jesus, why is it so difficult to understand that low costs with low revenue is no better than higher costs with higher revenue ??

There is a colossally arrogant assumption doing the rounds that Lowe can slash and burn yet still rely on the same revenue whatever the results. Where this comes from, heaven knows, but its ridiculous..

a very true statement

[alpine_saint]

We will miss his three goals...(in about 30 games).

Maybe we will miss his 10-odd goals in 11 games more....

[Saint Charlie]

Maybe we will miss his 10-odd goals in 11 games more....


That was two years ago, get real he was ****e last season and is one of our biggest earners. Since he signed permanently he showed absolutely no signs of reaching the form of that small spell, and JP pretty much said he doesnt seem to bothered to try and do so, but I'm sure he was happy picking up his decent wage...

[alpine_saint]

That was two years ago, get real he was ****e last season and is one of our biggest earners. Since he signed permanently he showed absolutely no signs of reaching the form of that small spell, and JP pretty much said he doesnt seem to bothered to try and do so, but I'm sure he was happy picking up his decent wage...

He was cack last season (one amongst many) due to ****-poor man-management demotivating him.

Step forward, Mr. Burley..

[tiger]

That was two years ago, get real he was ****e last season and is one of our biggest earners. Since he signed permanently he showed absolutely no signs of reaching the form of that small spell, and JP pretty much said he doesnt seem to bothered to try and do so, but I'm sure he was happy picking up his decent wage...

Burley isolated him, didn't pick him and his confidence suffered as a result. His form at the end of the previous year proves he had it in him.

[tiger]

Yep, completely agree. Some people should be ashamed.

Supporting the new regime is one thing, blithey accepting the Gopsel they send down from Mount Siani over every issue is ridiculous.

Spelling aside :) I am very much in accord with these sentiments.
It seems sometimes on this forum unless you shower the club with oodles of support amid a barrage of tub thumping "get behind the lads ffs" you have no right being on here.

[Dicko]

I'm not too upset to see Saga go.

He's one of our highest earners, and with only 3 goals last season, he can be easily replaced

[Hacienda]

He's one of our highest earners, and with only 3 goals last season, he can be easily replaced

I await to be convinced on that front.

[s0108787]

Jesus, why is it so difficult to understand that low costs with low revenue is no better than higher costs with higher revenue ??

There is a colossally arrogant assumption doing the rounds that Lowe can slash and burn yet still rely on the same revenue whatever the results. Where this comes from, heaven knows, but its ridiculous..

That is a given...

...we'd all best get along and start supporting the youngsters that play fast, attractive, passing football with the enthusiam and desire that we have been missing for so long then!

[Wes Tender]

I'm not too upset to see Saga go.

He's one of our highest earners, and with only 3 goals last season, he can be easily replaced

Yes, dead easy to replace a player who was picked to play for his National team at the European finals. We've got any number of youngsters better than him already at the club. Most of our youth are better than most of the Polish national team.

[thesaint sfc]

F*ck sake :( I have to change my avatar now.

[70's Mike]

I'm not too upset to see Saga go.

He's one of our highest earners, and with only 3 goals last season, he can be easily replaced

Easily ?

[s0108787]

Yes, dead easy to replace a player who was picked to play for his National team at the European finals. We've got any number of youngsters better than him already at the club. Most of our youth are better than most of the Polish national team.

The ONLY point of reference when comparing saga with others is his performance for us.

His ability is not necessarily in question, his performances for Poland are not in question. His performance for us ARE.

We wont miss something we didn't have (last season he did sod all - this season we will not miss him doing sod all).

[Ekelund24]

He was cack last season (one amongst many) due to ****-poor man-management demotivating him.

Step forward, Mr. Burley..

Last season his performances were poor, although I do take your point that he barely played and that was down to the random selection policy of GB, however, a decent player would gut it out train harder and force his way into the team. An example of this would be the James Beattie that came back into the team after a poor start to the 2002-03 season and scored 24 league goals by working his ass off and improving to become the top scoring English striker in the league

[Wes Tender]

The ONLY point of reference when comparing saga with others is his performance for us.

His ability is not necessarily in question, his performances for Poland are not in question. His performance for us ARE.

We wont miss something we didn't have (last season he did sod all - this season we will not miss him doing sod all).

I disagree. The fact that he is selected by his country demonstrates that he does have the quality to play at the top level. As has been argued by others, there may be several factors as to why he did not produce the goods for us last season. For a start, he only made 14 starts and 16 appearances from the bench. During last season, Burley made many switches between the strikers, trying to find the best combination. I don't think that he had made that decision even at the time that he left. A settled partnership develops an understanding, whereas Burley's constant tinkering never allowed any of our strikers to settle into a rhythm and sapped their confidence.

It isn't clear whether Poortvliet didn't consider him as an itegral part of his plans because he could not play his new system, or whether it had more to do with the fact that we needed to get somebody else to either buy him or pay his wages. I suspect the latter has much to do with any decision currently.

[s0108787]

I disagree. The fact that he is selected by his country demonstrates that he does have the quality to play at the top level. As has been argued by others, there may be several factors as to why he did not produce the goods for us last season. For a start, he only made 14 starts and 16 appearances from the bench. During last season, Burley made many switches between the strikers, trying to find the best combination. I don't think that he had made that decision even at the time that he left. A settled partnership develops an understanding, whereas Burley's constant tinkering never allowed any of our strikers to settle into a rhythm and sapped their confidence.

It isn't clear whether Poortvliet didn't consider him as an itegral part of his plans because he could not play his new system, or whether it had more to do with the fact that we needed to get somebody else to either buy him or pay his wages. I suspect the latter has much to do with any decision currently.

This is something Lallana and McGoldrick already have - we do not need Saga

[crouchi]

I thought Saga was a premiership quality player when he arrived, but he lost all confidence and the goalscoring threat last season, and now finds himself in a similar position to the one he was in at his last French club before we came in.

I have seen the youngsters play ONCE in the academy play off a few years back, when their play was astonishing, zipping the ball around in groups of 3 before delivering to the goal machine DMG.

Whether they can produce this consistently against CCC opposition is the big question. We continue to get rid of reasonable players who might be effective, and this is only because of the money.

All very high risk, but it's almost as exciting as buying 6 or 7 new players and seeing how they do. It's got to be worth a try, there will still be plenty of journeymen out there if it has gone pear-shaped by Christmas!

[PokingFun]

Lowe wants maximum shop-front exposure for the youngsters just in case a couple shape up and become decent players...

Still not convinced bringing back the good times at SFC is high priority for him....

Correct it is probably not but making sure we can regain financial stability is and the facts are that we were discussing Saga's terms last season for ages which normally means we had to pay big bucks. No great loss IMO and I would definitely keep Stern John over Saga as John is more effective even if he does not run around quite as much.

[PokingFun]

Why dont some people realise the two things go hand-in-hand ?

He can achieve short-term solvency by flogging off our decent players, but when the poor results cause the early optimisim to evaporate and the attendances plummet, there will still be issues to answer for to the creditors.

Why can't you understand that the bank will require short and long term solvency and will not give a **** about out ability to compete on the football field.

Anyway, who is to say our results will be so bad that relegation is a formality. I think there will be worse teams than us in the CCC from what we have seen in the last couple of games. We won't achieve the play offs but equally it is not certain that we will be relegation fodder either.

Time to wait and see..

[Hacienda]

This is something Lallana and McGoldrick already have - we do not need Saga

I wouldn't be so sure.

[OldNick]

Burley isolated him, didn't pick him and his confidence suffered as a result. His form at the end of the previous year proves he had it in him. I was one of the few who questioned his ability even when he first came.He missed a couple of sitters in the first leg of the play offs. When he was playing for his contract he showed a lot more, as soon as the contract was signed he lost his zest.

[Wes Tender]

This is something Lallana and McGoldrick already have - we do not need Saga

Agreed that Lallana and McGoldrick have an understanding; that was developed through playing together in the youth teams. But it is not as easy as stating that and saying QED. An understanding in the youth teams does not necessarily translate into the senior ranks. McGoldrick was scoring for fun with the youngsters, but seemed to be firing blanks last season most of the time and his confidence dried up as a result. Notice any similarity with the problem most likely associated with Saganowski? Lallana scored an incredible goal at the end of last season when Pearson gave him an outing, but hasn't exactly set the World on fire so far since. Perhaps he is the main one to provide the amunition for McGoldrick, but many believe that is precisely the role that might have suited Saga, with his good lively runs into and around the box. What happens if McGoldrick or Lallana are injured, or their goals dry up?

[offix]

....We WILL to better than last season FACT.

I love it when opinion is confused with "fact"

[s0108787]

Agreed that Lallana and McGoldrick have an understanding; that was developed through playing together in the youth teams. But it is not as easy as stating that and saying QED. An understanding in the youth teams does not necessarily translate into the senior ranks. McGoldrick was scoring for fun with the youngsters, but seemed to be firing blanks last season most of the time and his confidence dried up as a result. Notice any similarity with the problem most likely associated with Saganowski? Lallana scored an incredible goal at the end of last season when Pearson gave him an outing, but hasn't exactly set the World on fire so far since. Perhaps he is the main one to provide the amunition for McGoldrick, but many believe that is precisely the role that might have suited Saga, with his good lively runs into and around the box. What happens if McGoldrick or Lallana are injured, or their goals dry up?

Then we rely on Davies and Svensson to help us keep clean sheets and grind out results! ;)

[alpine_saint]

Why can't you understand that the bank will require short and long term solvency and will not give a **** about out ability to compete on the football field.

Anyway, who is to say our results will be so bad that relegation is a formality. I think there will be worse teams than us in the CCC from what we have seen in the last couple of games. We won't achieve the play offs but equally it is not certain that we will be relegation fodder either.

Time to wait and see..

So you reckon the status quo from last season's acheivements basically, with our cost base, is enough to keep our heads above water long-term and satisfy both banks and supporters ?

Riiighttt.......

[Doctoroncall]

I disagree. The fact that he is selected by his country demonstrates that he does have the quality to play at the top level. As has been argued by others, there may be several factors as to why he did not produce the goods for us last season. For a start, he only made 14 starts and 16 appearances from the bench. During last season, Burley made many switches between the strikers, trying to find the best combination. I don't think that he had made that decision even at the time that he left. A settled partnership develops an understanding, whereas Burley's constant tinkering never allowed any of our strikers to settle into a rhythm and sapped their confidence.

It isn't clear whether Poortvliet didn't consider him as an itegral part of his plans because he could not play his new system, or whether it had more to do with the fact that we needed to get somebody else to either buy him or pay his wages. I suspect the latter has much to do with any decision currently.

Have to agree with your analysis Wes, and I suspect certain players are as fickle as some us fans! I'm sure he found it hard to deal with the situation when out of the first team, selected occassional, played with a different strike partner or played a different role last season.

I would imagine the exit plan of players was set by the plc and given to JP based solely on financial aspects, although it would be nice to think he had some input on what players could not fit into the system and be sold. What is at risk is if plan A of McGoldrick fails or is injured only John is available when Rasiak has left unless we try another youngster to fire in the goals. How do you balance cost against results on the pitch when in the financial mire?

With regard to "low costs with low revenue is no better than higher costs with higher revenue", the differential is likely to be greater the higher the turnover so I wouldn't say it's the same financial position.

[s0108787]

So you reckon the status quo from last season's acheivements basically, with our cost base, is enough to keep our heads above water long-term and satisfy both banks and supporters ?

Riiighttt.......


I think he's saying the youngsters might suprise you, time will tell.

[PokingFun]

Jesus, why is it so difficult to understand that low costs with low revenue is no better than higher costs with higher revenue ??

There is a colossally arrogant assumption doing the rounds that Lowe can slash and burn yet still rely on the same revenue whatever the results. Where this comes from, heaven knows, but its ridiculous..

Apparently 21,000 tickets had been sold last week for the Brum game so that seems to suggest revenue might hold even though we are playing our non 'superstars' cough cough.

[PokingFun]

Wow, trust Lowe who managed to turn a silk purse into a sow's ear, and trust Wilde who is away with the fairies.

I'm convinced...

But who created the silk purse in the first place?

Others were responsible for ****ing the money away not RL in fairness to him. Financially I think he has always managed the club pretty well. Football decisions in the relegation season were his downfall.

So far, he seems to be going in the right direction again financially and I will see about the football after the first 5-10 results.

[PokingFun]

He was cack last season (one amongst many) due to ****-poor man-management demotivating him.

Step forward, Mr. Burley..

Professionals should be able to motivate themselves as well Alpine. Saga was not played by Burley as BWP and John were in good form for a while. When he did get a chance he ran around a lot but created little and scored even less. Get your blinkers off FFS.

[70's Mike]

Apparently 21,000 tickets had been sold last week for the Brum game so that seems to suggest revenue might hold even though we are playing our non 'superstars' cough cough.

Brum 3800

[PokingFun]

So you reckon the status quo from last season's acheivements basically, with our cost base, is enough to keep our heads above water long-term and satisfy both banks and supporters ?

Riiighttt.......

Where did I say that Alpine?

What I am saying is that Lowe will be working to a financial plan agreed with the bank and it will very likely factor in a further drop in revenue. That will satisfy the bank.

At the moment most supporters seem to be satisfied enough with our progress under JP and are willing to keep an open mind regarding how well this young team can do. If the 21000 sold for Brum is actually correct then it strongly suggests that the support is holding up and may continue to do so.

[Greenridge]

Professionals should be able to motivate themselves as well Alpine. Saga was not played by Burley as BWP and John were in good form for a while. When he did get a chance he ran around a lot but created little and scored even less. Get your blinkers off FFS.

I take it you're referring to BWP. Maybe it is you with blinkers.

[PokingFun]

Brum 3800

OK, apologies if I have misread something but my sentiments remain that lowe will manage the financials assuming a further drop in revenue i expect to satisfy the bank.

[PokingFun]

I take it you're referring to BWP. Maybe it is you with blinkers.

I think you might find that BWP's record is as good as Saga's and for the record I was not talking about BWP so your point is kind of redundant. This is a thread about Saga and his wages effect on the club finances.

[Leicestersaint]

Sorry to be a bit blunt, but i think this is good news.

[Greenridge]

I think you might find that BWP's record is as good as Saga's and for the record I was not talking about BWP so your point is kind of redundant. This is a thread about Saga and his wages effect on the club finances.

Not suggesting it wasn't however you were stating Saga ran around alot and basically didn't achieve a great deal. This is BWPs forte is it not, so my point is not redundant. Thanks for reminding of the thrust of this thread, it was actually started to highlight he had gone on loan. No more, no less, but thanks.

If we can replace Saga (if required) with a similar standard of player at lower cost then fantastic, if we can't and find ourselves relying on DMG or BWP and it doesn't happen for them then it's a false economy.

[offix]

average performer (if we're being kind), high wages- so this is good news. As critical as I am about what's going on with the club/team, I don't think that he brought anything of value that can't be offered by our remaining players.

[scooby]

Three goals last season. Couldn't cut it under the Golden Duo's new total football regime.

Better off without.

[Chez]

I fully agree with letting him go, but I certainly don't think that what's left behind will see us clear.

[Chez]

I fully agree with letting him go, but I certainly don't think that what's left behind will see us clear.


I should point out that I never wanted us to sign him even with his goals, before Jones left we had more than enough, once Jones had gone we needed pace and power not Saga. Wrong perhaps, but certainly consistent.

[offix]

I fully agree with letting him go, but I certainly don't think that what's left behind will see us clear.

Agreed, but neither could Saga

[Wes Tender]

Three goals last season. Couldn't cut it under the Golden Duo's new total football regime.

Better off without.

This Golden Duo you talk about. Not Dodd and Gorman, surely?

[team-saint]

surprisingly there is no mention of an option to buy at the end of the loan on the OS article, i would have thought there would have been if we are trying to offload him

[derry]

The players you keep on about lack pace, can't pass, don't compete, and more importantly can't cope with the sheer pace of the football being played.

These young players are used to winning. They have played in winning teams for the last few seasons and it shows. They play with a swagger that we haven't seen for years.

If you aren't going to the games it doesn't make any sense to pass hard and fast opinions on the basis of historical memory. We have moved on.

[s0108787]

So am I. The players you keep on about lack pace, can't pass, don't compete, and more importantly can't cope with the sheer pace of the football being played.

These young players are used to winning. They have played in winning teams for the last few seasons and it shows. They play with a swagger that we haven't seen for years.

If you aren't going to the games it doesn't make any sense to pass hard and fast opinions on the basis of historical memory. We have moved on.


think you've got your wires crossed somewhere sweetheart! :rolleyes:

[derry]

think you've got your wires crossed somewhere sweetheart! :rolleyes:

The "you" wasn't your post but all those negative posters who obviously haven't see the team play. The answer to your post was "So am I". A bit ambiguous though, I see where you are coming from. Is that better?

[NickG]

Jesus, why is it so difficult to understand that low costs with low revenue is no better than higher costs with higher revenue ??

There is a colossally arrogant assumption doing the rounds that Lowe can slash and burn yet still rely on the same revenue whatever the results. Where this comes from, heaven knows, but its ridiculous..

jesus why is it so difficult to see high cost and low revenue is a problem!

you are clearly on a wind up and not serious so will smile and move on!

[NickG]

Wow, trust Lowe who managed to turn a silk purse into a sow's ear, and trust Wilde who is away with the fairies.

I'm convinced...

or trust your better informed opinion of made up facts? not hard to decide. You may not like them but they know what is going on and can understand it unlike you.

[s0108787]

The "you" wasn't your post but all those negative posters who obviously haven't see the team play. The answer to your post was "So am I". A bit ambiguous though, I see where you are coming from. Is that better?

Are we both alluding to the fact that we now play better football than last season and have a good chance of doing much better than the "experienced pros" that almost dropped us in the proverbial last year?

If so, then yes that is better.

:)

[s0108787]

jesus why is it so difficult to see high cost and low revenue is a problem!
you are clearly on a wind up and not serious so will smile and move on!

Post of the decade IMO.

THAT hit the nail right on the head.

These youngsters will also be far more likely to bring the fans (and revenue) back than the "experienced pros" due to the slick style of play they have grown up playing.

So maybe, just maybe, it will be a case of Higher revenue and lower costs!:p

God forbid that should ever happen though... ;)

[alpine_saint]

jesus why is it so difficult to see high cost and low revenue is a problem!

you are clearly on a wind up and not serious so will smile and move on!

QED. Thanks for proving my point....

[lordswoodsaints]

how come polish workers in southampton do a good job for little money except for polish southampton footballers who do a crap job for big bucks?

[saintwarwick]

Jesus, why is it so difficult to understand that low costs with low revenue is no better than higher costs with higher revenue ??

There is a colossally arrogant assumption doing the rounds that Lowe can slash and burn yet still rely on the same revenue whatever the results. Where this comes from, heaven knows, but its ridiculous..

Maybe the bank is calling the shots, Lowe and Wilde have probably been told to slash the wage bill meaning getting rid of the high earners.

[alpine_saint]

Maybe the bank is calling the shots, Lowe and Wilde have probably been told to slash the wage bill meaning getting rid of the high earners.

So we are supposed to think the bank are that stupid that customer base allienation is an alien notion to them ? Right.

Also, that means Lowe is making sod all difference, despite the worship in certain parts, since the bank would have forced the same actions if Crouch were still in charge.

[70's Mike]

So we are supposed to think the bank are that stupid that customer base allienation is an alien notion to them ? Right.

Also, that means Lowe is making sod all difference, despite the worship in certain parts, since the bank would have forced the same actions if Crouch were still in charge.

Fair comment , you will have them all after you now Alps.

[saintwarwick]

So we are supposed to think the bank are that stupid that customer base allienation is an alien notion to them ? Right.

Also, that means Lowe is making sod all difference, despite the worship in certain parts, since the bank would have forced the same actions if Crouch were still in charge.

Exactly, the same would of happened had Crouch still been in charge, that Lowe is in charge now makes no difference to the fact we are in debt and need to reduce the wage bill. Whoever is in charge without the money to put in will be in the same position.

[NickG]

QED. Thanks for proving my point....

glad we agree, so revenue is still low -which higher paid players should leave?

[egreog]

good news........ now get rid of Rasiak and lets move on!!

[alpine_saint]

Exactly, the same would of happened had Crouch still been in charge, that Lowe is in charge now makes no difference to the fact we are in debt and need to reduce the wage bill. Whoever is in charge without the money to put in will be in the same position.

Ok, so let's stop this nonsense that Lowe is weaving some kind of magic then.

[PokingFun]

Ok, so let's stop this nonsense that Lowe is weaving some kind of magic then.

I have seen no-one at all suggest that Lowe is waving a magic wand. The fact that some fans have been impressed by the team that have put out is nothing to do with bigging up lowe or not as the case often is. It is about giving some credit where it seems due.

The fact is that Lowe is taking tough decisions that need to be made and actually making them but trying to balance that with the purchase of young players that may have potential or giving our better youngsters a try.

Whats your solution? You only ever criticise, but I have never seen you put forward an alternative. Come on lets hear your way of reducing the costs and still competing genius?

Welcome back to the forum Alpine...

[alpine_saint]

I have seen no-one at all suggest that Lowe is waving a magic wand. The fact that some fans have been impressed by the team that have put out is nothing to do with bigging up lowe or not as the case often is. It is about giving some credit where it seems due.

The fact is that Lowe is taking tough decisions that need to be made and actually making them but trying to balance that with the purchase of young players that may have potential or giving our better youngsters a try.

Whats your solution? You only ever criticise, but I have never seen you put forward an alternative. Come on lets hear your way of reducing the costs and still competing genius?

Welcome back to the forum Alpine...

Oh, come off it. Lowe has been able to hide behind the summer break to take his unpopular decisions, Crouch had to take his (Rasiak and Skacel) full-on in the middle of the season with fans braying down his neck.

In the same way as certain people argued that the transfer activity planned for the 2006-2007 season was set in motion by Lowe, the cost cutting was already planned by the old board (there has been clear evidence cited about the corner issues), yet some people have been banging on about Lowe's financial expertise.

By-the-way, we may have cut costs, but until 1700 tomorrow afternoon the argument that we are still competing is complete opinion on your behalf and not fact.

[scooby]

Ok, so let's stop this nonsense that Lowe is weaving some kind of magic then.

I don't see any nonsense.

I see Lord Lowe cutting our wage bill dramatically.

I see him clearing out the dross and dead wood.

I see him the regime introducing exciting, innovative total football to the mickey mouse.

I see us with a real opportunity to win this league thanks to his actions.

[alpine_saint]

I don't see any nonsense.

I see Lord Lowe cutting our wage bill dramatically.

I see him clearing out the dross and dead wood.

I see him the regime introducing exciting, innovative total football to the mickey mouse.

I see us with a real opportunity to win this league thanks to his actions.

I'm very pleased for you..

[Totton Red]

I don't see any nonsense.

I see Lord Lowe cutting our wage bill dramatically.

I see him clearing out the dross and dead wood.

I see him the regime introducing exciting, innovative total football to the mickey mouse.

I see us with a real opportunity to win this league thanks to his actions.

We must repent!

[Mr X]

Lowe wants maximum shop-front exposure for the youngsters just in case a couple shape up and become decent players...

Still not convinced bringing back the good times at SFC is high priority for him....

And that my friend is what it all comes down to, Lowes mentality is that as long as there's a game of football on every week and we finish above the relegation zone that is all that matters, along with him lining his own pockets of course! Lowe is in it for himself always has been always will be. You are just a seat number in his salary.

Cue the abuse..... ;)

[saintwarwick]

And that my friend is what it all comes down to, Lowes mentality is that as long as there's a game of football on every week and we finish above the relegation zone that is all that matters, along with him lining his own pockets of course! Lowe is in it for himself always has been always will be. You are just a seat number in his salary.

Cue the abuse..... ;)

So don't you think it will be better for him to be in the premiership where he could line his pockets with with more money through higher wages and bonuses. You are really blinkered.

[alpine_saint]

So don't you think it will be better for him to be in the premiership where he could line his pockets with with more money through higher wages and bonuses.

Nope. Too much expenditure with too high risk for Lowe.

[scooby]

Nope. Too much expenditure with too high risk for Lowe.

Facile reasoning. Lowe, like any businessman, wants to be in the top flight for no reason other than there's no money to be had in the mickey mouse.

[Colinjb]

Facile reasoning. Lowe, like any businessman, wants to be in the top flight for no reason other than there's no money to be had in the mickey mouse.

If (when under your reasoning) we get promoted, what would you expect Lowe to do? How would we consolidate/push on?

[StubbSaint]

You mean you didn't know about the cull that was to happen? Get real, the teams we have set out to play speak for themselves, the bit part players are the ones that are going whether you, me or others like it. We need to lower the wage bill. Gathered from a lot of opinions from pre season at least we are playing footy so at least there is a bit of optimism, something you know nothing about.
what and course you do

[Billy Shite]

It amazes me that people wanted shot of him. Quality player who got ****ed about last year by drunken George who made a big play about him being a vital signing and then ****ed him about all season. We want forwards with movement for this season. We had two and one has just been sold. rasiak and John don't move at all and don't get me started on BWP.

[EFM]

And ideal for his movement if we are going to play most of the season with kids

FFS!

Do you have some idea that using mainly "kids" means we aren't allowed to play anyone with more talent who's over 25? What a strange attitude.

[EFM]

That was two years ago, get real he was ****e last season and is one of our biggest earners. Since he signed permanently he showed absolutely no signs of reaching the form of that small spell, and JP pretty much said he doesnt seem to bothered to try and do so, but I'm sure he was happy picking up his decent wage...

I thought he pretty much kept us in this division with his performance in the last game of the season. If he was good enough to start in that momentous game how come he isn't worth a place in the squad now?

[Arizona]

Gutted.

[saintwarwick]

what and course you do

Decipher mode on.

[WealdSaint]

My misses is Danish........reckons Saga will take a big pay cut even if Aalbourg do match our wages courtesy of the Danish Tax Man.

Aalbourg were in Europe last year.........not sure this year.

[stanthemanfairoak]

not in this year

[SaintRichmond]

Merely stating a rumour that's Saints related that's spreading around Watford.


With Henderson gone, Rasiak will be bought to fill the Watford Gap ...........

[alpine_saint]

If (when under your reasoning) we get promoted, what would you expect Lowe to do? How would we consolidate/push on?

Like after the 2003 FA cup Final and qualifying for Europe probably - flog someone as important to the team as Wayne Bridge...

[alpine_saint]

Burley selected the team based on pure spite sometimes, I think.

Rasiak peeed him off in 2006-2007, so he dropped him for Saga.

The very same player, regarded so highly only 3 months before, barely feature in 2007-2008, so I would contend that Saga dared to offend him somehow.

I dont know of a single Saints manager in history that harboured such petty grudges against certain of his players at certain times as much as Burley did. Even Branfoots obvious jealousy for MLT that caused him to drop him and make press comments for years after that MLT was holding us back and should be sold pales into comparison..

[NickG]

It amazes me that people wanted shot of him. Quality player who got ****ed about last year by drunken George who made a big play about him being a vital signing and then ****ed him about all season. We want forwards with movement for this season. We had two and one has just been sold. rasiak and John don't move at all and don't get me started on BWP.

don't think people are saying they want shot of him, more some are saying club are idiots for getting rid of him and others realising we are broke and perhaps can live without him.
He may come back a better player as last season he did need to build his confidence.

[Greenridge]

I see us with a real opportunity to win this league thanks to his actions.

Even by your own wildly distorted views Scooby I doubt even the most ardent of Lowe supporters will buy-in to this classic statement.

[jimmysaint7]

Even by your own wildly distorted views Scooby I doubt even the most ardent of Lowe supporters will buy-in to this classic statement.

i agree that is just the most ridiculous staetment i have ever heard/read

[Greenridge]

don't think people are saying they want shot of him, more some are saying club are idiots for getting rid of him and others realising we are broke and perhaps can live without him.
He may come back a better player as last season he did need to build his confidence.

Sorry Nick but that's exactly what many posters are implying if not stating in black and white. We are being continually fed information that a number of players aren't interested etc etc. They just happen to be the higher wage drawers in the Club. Coincidence? As with most things on this forum, the views are dictated by pro or anti-Lowe opinions and not on the reality of the situation at hand.

[sql]

Absolutely gutted :(

Saganowski wrote on his site, that club treated him unfair when he came back from Euro, he was send to reserves straight away and told that he is not wanted. Chairman told the coach that he is not allowed to use Saga in friendly games and he is out of the squad this season.

I thought that he was given more time after Euro to rest, but now everything is perfectly clear :(. Disappointing really.

[alpine_saint]

Absolutely gutted :(

Saganowski wrote on his site, that club treated him unfair when he came back from Euro, he was send to reserves straight away and told that he is not wanted. Chairman told the coach that he is not allowed to use Saga in friendly games and he is out of the squad this season.

I thought that he was given more time after Euro to rest, but now everything is perfectly clear :(. Disappointing really.

Sounds like Rupert Lowe's style..........

Leopards never change their spots. Looks like Saga was never given the chance to show he wanted to play for the shirt. So much for that boooolox about not keeping players who cant be bothered.

[ozzmeister]

I assume its confirmed on the OS that its a loan, i only say because telegraph write it as a 5mill transfer?

[buctootim]

telegraph write it as a 5mill transfer?

That would be fantastic news if accurate, which I massively doubt.

[ozzmeister]

That would be fantastic news if accurate, which I massively doubt.

Is what i thought and not like the telegraph to be inaccurate but very little of the media world care enough about saints to actually do their research. Maybe it is a 5mill future fee?

[saintwarwick]

Sounds like Rupert Lowe's style..........

Leopards never change their spots. Looks like Saga was never given the chance to show he wanted to play for the shirt. So much for that boooolox about not keeping players who cant be bothered.

More to do with offloading a player on high wages.

[alpine_saint]

More to do with offloading a player on high wages.

And its the blanket off-loading without thinking whether any one of them could turn a mediocre season into something special that is the most infuriating aspect of this activity.

Lowe looks at bank balance first, last, always.

And if I were Saga I'd be a bit ****ed at the spin coming out that all of these players have no hunger and are disinterested.

[sql]

One more thing about Saga: He also wrote on his site that he had many offers from other Championship clubs but he chose Denmark. Hope it will be seen as his commitement to Saints - not wanting to be Saints rival and not wanting to score against his former club. I dont believe we will ever see Saga again in a Saits shirt. Bye :(

gutted

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Absolutely gutted :(

Saganowski wrote on his site, that club treated him unfair when he came back from Euro, he was send to reserves straight away and told that he is not wanted. Chairman told the coach that he is not allowed to use Saga in friendly games and he is out of the squad this season.

I thought that he was given more time after Euro to rest, but now everything is perfectly clear :(. Disappointing really.

If this is true it is damming evidence that Lowe is calling the shots with the team and the dutch man doing as he is told.

[Wes Tender]

I have an inkling that a game like today's is one where Saga would have shone and added the necessary bite in the final third that we seemed to be missing. But we might never know now, as apparently Mr "Never mind the quality feel the width" Lowe seems to have made up his mind that Saga's wages are too much. If things continue in this vein and John doesn't make up for this deficiency, the penny might eventually drop. I wonder whether there will be enough time before the season's end to remedy the situation?

[saintwarwick]

And its the blanket off-loading without thinking whether any one of them could turn a mediocre season into something special that is the most infuriating aspect of this activity.

Lowe looks at bank balance first, last, always.

And if I were Saga I'd be a bit ****ed at the spin coming out that all of these players have no hunger and are disinterested.

And you can't seem to grasp that the bank has probably told us to cut costs meaning getting rid of our higher earners. I would of liked him to stay but unfortunately he along with others has to go.

[Arizona]

I have an inkling that a game like today's is one where Saga would have shone and added the necessary bite in the final third that we seemed to be missing. But we might never know now, as apparently Mr "Never mind the quality feel the width" Lowe seems to have made up his mind that Saga's wages are too much. If things continue in this vein and John doesn't make up for this deficiency, the penny might eventually drop. I wonder whether there will be enough time before the season's end to remedy the situation?

From what I've heard, i.e. having very little possesion, nothing sticking up front and being under the cosh for large parts, Saga was exactly what we needed up front today. Someone to work hard and put pressure on the defence. We never lost a game Saga started under Pearson.


And you can't seem to grasp that the bank has probably told us to cut costs meaning getting rid of our higher earners. I would of liked him to stay but unfortunately he along with others has to go.

I know we have to cut costs, but if we are still losing money now, something somewhere is seriously f*cked up. If we lose John, Rasiak, Skacel, Euell and Davis we are practically playing the youth team, plus a couple of old freebies who surely must be at the lower end of the CCC wage bill.

I know we could never afford a squad full of IIs, Powells, BWPs, Claus' etc filling up the wage bill without delivering on the pitch, but f*ck me surely having more than 5 players on more than a youth contract isn't going to bankrupt us.

[Greenridge]

And you can't seem to grasp that the bank has probably told us to cut costs meaning getting rid of our higher earners. I would of liked him to stay but unfortunately he along with others has to go.

And you can't seem to grasp that sliding down the league table(s) with associated diminishing income is a false economy.

[Rattlehead]

Amazing really. Anyone remember this time last year when this forum was going into meltdown when it looked like we might not sign Saga?

Absolute uproar about how much of a disgrace it would be if we didn't etc etc etc.

Saga is a classic example of a player that if we didn't sign him permanently people would be going on about him forever more as the person that could have taken us to the next level etc etc.

Now? On your bike son.

You are very tedious/tiresome, it has to be said. Yawn.

[alpine_saint]

And you can't seem to grasp that the bank has probably told us to cut costs meaning getting rid of our higher earners. I would of liked him to stay but unfortunately he along with others has to go.

So you think the bank are so utterly inflexible or knowledgeable that they told Lowe to get rid of certain players ?

Nonsense. They either told Lowe to find x amount per month in savings, or he offered them x amount per month in savings. The bank couldnt give a shiny one how Lowe finds it.

It's Lowe who decided Saga is surplus to requirements. And this one instance, all things considered, I reckon he has made a mistake as BIG as flogging Fitz Hall when Killer had fitness problems.

[saintwarwick]

So you think the bank are so utterly inflexible or knowledgeable that they told Lowe to get rid of certain players ?

Nonsense. They either told Lowe to find x amount per month in savings, or he offered them x amount per month in savings. The bank couldnt give a shiny one how Lowe finds it.

It's Lowe who decided Saga is surplus to requirements. And this one instance, all things considered, I reckon he has made a mistake as BIG as flogging Fitz Hall when Killer had fitness problems.

Please provide evidence of this, thanks.

[saintwarwick]

And you can't seem to grasp that sliding down the league table(s) with associated diminishing income is a false economy.

I don't work for the bank and fortunately can grasp the fact that sliding down the table will decrease our income, however the bank doesn't see it that way, they want to take a large slice of debt up front in case the inevitable happens.

[Wes Tender]

From what I've heard, i.e. having very little possesion, nothing sticking up front and being under the cosh for large parts, Saga was exactly what we needed up front today. Someone to work hard and put pressure on the defence. We never lost a game Saga started under Pearson.

I know we have to cut costs, but if we are still losing money now, something somewhere is seriously f*cked up. If we lose John, Rasiak, Skacel, Euell and Davis we are practically playing the youth team, plus a couple of old freebies who surely must be at the lower end of the CCC wage bill.

I know we could never afford a squad full of IIs, Powells, BWPs, Claus' etc filling up the wage bill without delivering on the pitch, but f*ck me surely having more than 5 players on more than a youth contract isn't going to bankrupt us.

Agree wholeheartedly. And as somebody else commented so pertinently, if we do require any of the oldies to step forward to cover for injuries to any of the youngsters, any who remain, that is, what is their mental attitude going to be? If they were to think, right, you want me now you're in the sh*t, it will be quite understandable.

[alpine_saint]

Please provide evidence of this, thanks.

It's obviously pointless discussing with you. You know this is the case, you are just being bloody-minded.

[Saint Martini]

So you think the bank are so utterly inflexible or knowledgeable that they told Lowe to get rid of certain players ?

Nonsense. They either told Lowe to find x amount per month in savings, or he offered them x amount per month in savings. The bank couldnt give a shiny one how Lowe finds it.

It's Lowe who decided Saga is surplus to requirements. And this one instance, all things considered, I reckon he has made a mistake as BIG as flogging Fitz Hall when Killer had fitness problems.

So where do you find this money then? It seems to me that pretty much any other way of cutting costs has already been implemented so there's not much left except letting highearners go. I'm sure if you have some other brilliant idea on how to cut costs Lowe will be all ears.

[NickG]

It's obviously pointless discussing with you. You know this is the case, you are just being bloody-minded.

think its more likely Lowe listed more expensive players and indicated how much was needed to save and JP decided where the prioroties lay.

[alpine_saint]

So where do you find this money then? It seems to me that pretty much any other way of cutting costs has already been implemented so there's not much left except letting highearners go. I'm sure if you have some other brilliant idea on how to cut costs Lowe will be all ears.

OK, for starters:

Why favour keeping BWP over Saga ? We've only loaned out Saga, not sold him for £10M. Are we supposed to believe BWP is more important to JPs plans than Saga ? Are we supposed to believe we couldnt get a team to take BWP on loan ? BWP is also rumoured to be earning a mint.

[alpine_saint]

think its more likely Lowe listed more expensive players and indicated how much was needed to save and JP decided where the prioroties lay.

So we are expected to believe JP is happy to see the entire strike force except McG and maybe Stern transfer listed ? Scoring goals is a low priority ?

[Colinjb]

Best of luck Saga. How the carrott is large enough to stir your interest.

[Saint Martini]

OK, for starters:

Why favour keeping BWP over Saga ? We've only loaned out Saga, not sold him for £10M. Are we supposed to believe BWP is more important to JPs plans than Saga ? Are we supposed to believe we couldnt get a team to take BWP on loan ? BWP is also rumoured to be earning a mint.


Well, maybe Poortvliet could choose and preferred BWP. If they are on the same amount then I'm sure Lowe would have said. Look Jan, we gotta save another 10k. Who do you want to keep from:

Davies
BWP
Skacel
Rasiak
John
Viafara

Also, BWP is more likely to improve and is younger so he is more of an asset to the club then Saga.


So we are expected to believe JP is happy to see the entire strike force except McG and maybe Stern transfer listed ? Scoring goals is a low priority ?

No, but wel only play with one striker. In Holland having two strikers when playing 4 3 3 is considered to be fine. Especially if you have some players that could play in the striker role if needed.

[saintwarwick]

OK, for starters:

Why favour keeping BWP over Saga ? We've only loaned out Saga, not sold him for £10M. Are we supposed to believe BWP is more important to JPs plans than Saga ? Are we supposed to believe we couldnt get a team to take BWP on loan ? BWP is also rumoured to be earning a mint.

Is he on more or less than Saga?

[farawaysaint]

OK, for starters:

Why favour keeping BWP over Saga ? We've only loaned out Saga, not sold him for £10M. Are we supposed to believe BWP is more important to JPs plans than Saga ? Are we supposed to believe we couldnt get a team to take BWP on loan ? BWP is also rumoured to be earning a mint.

BWP is being used as a winger where he can exploit his pace.

[NickG]

So we are expected to believe JP is happy to see the entire strike force except McG and maybe Stern transfer listed ? Scoring goals is a low priority ?

sure he would want to keep them all, but if it was a balancing act and meant keeping Davies, Surman, Svensson etc, what do you suggest?

[farawaysaint]

sure he would want to keep them all, but if it was a balancing act and meant keeping Davies, Surman, Svensson etc, what do you suggest?

I would suggest having no strike force and a good defence is comparably bad to having a great strike force and a cr@p defence.

[NickG]

Stern John
BWP
Rasiak
McGoldrick

[alpine_saint]

I would suggest having no strike force and a good defence is comparably bad to having a great strike force and a cr@p defence.

Completely agree. McG has had a great pre-season and first game, but will he keep it up ?

We have transfer-list almost every other forward at the club, and consequently have massively restricted our options.

My fear is that we will only play with one tactic and tempo like under Burley, and the opposition will quickly learn how to neutrallise us.

[Greenridge]

Well, maybe Poortvliet could choose and preferred BWP. If they are on the same amount then I'm sure Lowe would have said. Look Jan, we gotta save another 10k. Who do you want to keep from:

Davies
BWP
Skacel
Rasiak
John
Viafara

Also, BWP is more likely to improve and is younger so he is more of an asset to the club then Saga.



No, but wel only play with one striker. In Holland having two strikers when playing 4 3 3 is considered to be fine. Especially if you have some players that could play in the striker role if needed.

That of course is completely subjective, I don't think he's a patch of Saga.

[alpine_saint]

Is he on more or less than Saga?

I really do genuinely worry about the short-sightedness of some Saints fans.

If Saga managed to turn around a couple of results that BWP didnt our couldnt in a million years, the changes in or table position and outlook would probably put a couple more hundred bums on seats, thereby paying the difference between their wages.

Why oh why cant some fans (and maybe some chairmen) see that results will make a direct difference to finances ???

[Wes Tender]

Completely agree. McG has had a great season and first game, but will he keep it up ?

We have transfer-list almost every other forward at the club, and consequently have massively restricted our options.

My fear is that we will only play with one tactic and tempo like under Burley, and the opposition will quickly learn how to neutrallise us.

Just as the Dutch were neutralised in the European Championships after making a fantastic start. The difference between them and us was the undoubted quality that the Dutch team had at their disposal, whereas we have had to sell quite a lot of ours.

[No 2 to Maybush]

I really do genuinely worry about the short-sightedness of some Saints fans.

If Saga managed to turn around a couple of results that BWP didnt our couldnt in a million years, the changes in or table position and outlook would probably put a couple more hundred bums on seats, thereby paying the difference between their wages.

Why oh why cant some fans (and maybe some chairmen) see that results will make a direct difference to finances ???

Although I sympathise with your sentiment, the Chairman is still firefighting to keep the club afloat as a going concern. We have sold a few players, released a few players, signed some (cheaper) players, yet still have around half a dozen players on the books who we are having to pay top dollar to. I would guess the situation is still untenable and Rupert will be desperate to get rid of at least another 3 high wage earners before the end of August.

We are still broke Alpine. The last 3 months have seen the club desperately trying to reduce its overheads. JP has been given a brief to assemble a team for the season, and, as has been posted previously, been told which of the high wage earners we are looking to move on. It is unrealistic therefore, to expect JP to include these players in his plans. He will be looking at starting the season with as settled a squad as possible, in order to minimise dispruption and create a focus. As to results, we have played 1 competitive game. It is hypothesis on your part that playing any of the older pros on our books will provide improved results. Our current stats are 0/1. Let's wait a few more league games before we start the self immolation, eh? :cool:

[alpine_saint]

Although I sympathise with your sentiment, the Chairman is still firefighting to keep the club afloat as a going concern. We have sold a few players, released a few players, signed some (cheaper) players, yet still have around half a dozen players on the books who we are having to pay top dollar to. I would guess the situation is still untenable and Rupert will be desperate to get rid of at least another 3 high wage earners before the end of August.

We are still broke Alpine. The last 3 months have seen the club desperately trying to reduce its overheads. JP has been given a brief to assemble a team for the season, and, as has been posted previously, been told which of the high wage earners we are looking to move on. It is unrealistic therefore, to expect JP to include these players in his plans. He will be looking at starting the season with as settled a squad as possible, in order to minimise dispruption and create a focus. As to results, we have played 1 competitive game. It is hypothesis on your part that playing any of the older pros on our books will provide improved results. Our current stats are 0/1. Let's wait a few more league games before we start the self immolation, eh? :cool:

Hmmm..If the club is so completely f**ked financially that the mid-to-long-term results benefits - of keeping any one of, say, the top seven wager earners under any circumstances - were completely disregarded, then the whole club is f**ked and Lowe is just postponing the inveitable.

I refuse to believe that all of the top earners could provide zero impact on the success of our season whilst drawing those wages, and that Pootvilet didnt see any value at all in keeping any of them for the way he wants to play. He is a manager. I believe he would recognise strenghts and weaknesses in all his players, and would have relished the challenge of remotivating and getting the best out of a couple of them.

[saintwarwick]

I really do genuinely worry about the short-sightedness of some Saints fans.

If Saga managed to turn around a couple of results that BWP didnt our couldnt in a million years, the changes in or table position and outlook would probably put a couple more hundred bums on seats, thereby paying the difference between their wages.

Why oh why cant some fans (and maybe some chairmen) see that results will make a direct difference to finances ???

You didn't answer my question.

[alpine_saint]

You didn't answer my question.

I did. I answered that your question is irrelevant. Sorry you missed that.

[NickG]

as is seeing a player before you slag him off?

[CB Fry]

Have I missed something, or did Saga score three goals in thirty games last season?

How does that make him irreplaceable and how is it a disaster if we've shipped him out.

Last time I looked three in thirty for a striker on £8-10k per week is rubbish.

[alpine_saint]

Have I missed something, or did Saga score three goals in thirty games last season?

How does that make him irreplaceable and how is it a disaster if we've shipped him out.

Last time I looked three in thirty for a striker on £8-10k per week is rubbish.

The same player scored about 10 in 11 apperances the season before, when he was the apple of the managers eye.

He was treat like crap last season.

[alpine_saint]

as is seeing a player before you slag him off?

sorry, no idea what you are going on about.

[Saint Martini]

That of course is completely subjective, I don't think he's a patch of Saga.

Its not that subjective at all, taking into account Saga's age there's now way he going to be worth any significant money at any point in the future. BWP might be worth money because he has a large chunk of his footballing life left. That plus the fact that they are both deemed good enough for the Saints first team just means that BWP is a better investment then Saga. It is not a judgement of their respective football qualities, that would be subjective, but a judgement of their wage, age & stats (as in matches played & goals scored).

[saintwarwick]

I did. I answered that your question is irrelevant. [b/Sorry you missed that[/b].

What I did miss was your answer, something you have failed to provide.

[Saint Martini]

Just as the Dutch were neutralised in the European Championships after making a fantastic start. The difference between them and us was the undoubted quality that the Dutch team had at their disposal, whereas we have had to sell quite a lot of ours.

The other difference is that Holland were playing a team of undoubted quality and we won't really be playing those...

[alpine_saint]

What I did miss was your answer, something you have failed to provide.

Whatever. Suggest you troll someone else.

[CB Fry]

The same player scored about 10 in 11 apperances the season before, when he was the apple of the managers eye.

He was not playing for a lucrative contract last season therefore didn't need to perform at the level he achieved the previous season

.

Changed it for you.

Footballers on £8-£12k a week (just the half a million quid in his sky rocket) don't get "treated like crap". Diddums.

30 games is enough of a chance to score some bloody goals, isn't it?

[the_barmy_saints_army]

he is a prospect =, he got picked for poland over rasiak! u know wot he can do. i would say thats a bad move!

[Wes Tender]

The other difference is that Holland were playing a team of undoubted quality and we won't really be playing those...

But taking things down to our level, the fact is that the style of play was negated by the clever use of tactics to counter it. The clever managers in this division will watch how we play others and set out a strategy to negate our play or counter it. The Holland team's style was negated and countered and showed the way that it can be done.

[bungle]

Why oh why cant some fans (and maybe some chairmen) see that results will make a direct difference to finances ???

Is this in the way that Leeds focussed on results and got to CL semi-final but then went totally and utterly bankrupt and are now stuck in League One AND having to play David Prutton?!

[alpine_saint]

Is this in the way that Leeds focussed on results and got to CL semi-final but then went totally and utterly bankrupt and are now stuck in League One AND having to play David Prutton?!

Can someone tell me where I said "sod the finances, only results count" ??

I thought I was counselling AGAINST absolute black-and-white perspectives...

[Saint Martini]

But taking things down to our level, the fact is that the style of play was negated by the clever use of tactics to counter it. The clever managers in this division will watch how we play others and set out a strategy to negate our play or counter it. The Holland team's style was negated and countered and showed the way that it can be done.


I never expected us to be invincible, did you? There is no magic formation that concurs all. I do feel that the current system is best suited for our youngsters and it is those players we are forced to rely on because of our financial situation and besides that it is more exciting to watch so if we can get halfdecent results with exciting football then I'm sure more people will turn up then last season (which would better our finances).


Can someone tell me where I said "sod the finances, only results count" ??

I thought I was counselling AGAINST absolute black-and-white perspectives...

But we're not throwing everything out are we? Some of the senior pro's (Davies) will stay so it is no that absolutely black or white as you are making it out to be.

[NickG]

there still have not been the departures perdicted on here.
The list widely posted was
Davies
Surman
Dyer
Rasiak
John
Safri
Saga
Skacel

so far, safri and Saga -expect more but also expect several on that list to stay.

i appreciate the books need to balance, I would rather start the season with ony DMG and BWP up front than on minus 13 points

[Wes Tender]

I never expected us to be invincible, did you? There is no magic formation that concurs all. I do feel that the current system is best suited for our youngsters and it is those players we are forced to rely on because of our financial situation and besides that it is more exciting to watch so if we can get halfdecent results with exciting football then I'm sure more people will turn up then last season (which would better our finances).



I concur that there is no magic formation that conquers all ;) Although the traditional formation of 4-4-2 is what we can generally expect to come up against, we have dabbled ourselves with other formations as a Premiership club with varying degrees of success. Hoddle often employed two wing backs to switch between 5-3-2 in defence and 3-5-2 in attack. Ball had his Christmas tree formation of 4-3-2-1 which could quickly be switched to 4-5-1 or 4-3-3. Currently popular in the Premiership is the midfield diamond that is popular with some teams.

Is it the case that the formation we play suits our youngsters, or our manager? Certainly it is entertaining to watch as long as it is working, but will it become less so if other teams deploy a strategy to negate its effectiveness? The concept is great on paper, keeping possession by quick decisive passing, with player movement to keep the opposition chasing shadows. Presumably that did not happen after the half hour at Cardiff, or it would be a connundrum if we truly only had 34% possession during the match.

But as you say, no formation conquers all and it will be interesting to see how long it is before we are sussed out and our strategy negated.

[NickG]

as its so unusual it will be a bit of a dilema for other managers -so they stick to their formation, worry about ours, or see a weakness in ours.

think we will see all approaches this season -with varying degree of success

[Wes Tender]

as its so unusual it will be a bit of a dilema for other managers -so they stick to their formation, worry about ours, or see a weakness in ours.

think we will see all approaches this season -with varying degree of success

I think that you're right. But obviously if a manager devises a strategy that is devastatingly effective early on, then provided that the personnel are there with the same skills to exploit it, others will have seen the marker laid down and if they have half a brain, they will see the way forward.

The question then will be whether JP has other ways of varying play to keep them guessing, or whether we will be a one trick pony.