Stern John

[Professor]

The OS quotes Poortvleit as saying that Stern could start against Birmingham. JP says Stern is 'back in the squad' from which we must conclude that up until this week, he was not.
So what has changed. Stern's commitment in training is quoted as a reason, and his performance as sub at Exeter, but the other change could be Rasiak's move to Watford. Maybe that has cleared up who will be the other main striker with DMG.

[Bailey]

If it is true that Rasiak is off then I have no doubt that we will keep hold of Stern.

Good move too as he fits into our new system much better than GR.

[NickG]

The OS quotes Poortvleit as saying that Stern could start against Birmingham. JP says Stern is 'back in the squad' from which we must conclude that up until this week, he was not.
So what has changed. Stern's commitment in training is quoted as a reason, and his performance as sub at Exeter, but the other change could be Rasiak's move to Watford. Maybe that has cleared up who will be the other main striker with DMG.


he wasn't -he was suspended

[TopGun]

Rasiak is near enough gone, so John is possibly back in the fold for the moment. They were both items for sale. It's less likely John is the next to be offloaded now.

Given that BWP wasn't involved at all at Exeter (so no cup-tied stuff) I'd assume he is the next forward to be offloaded now by choice.

[Window Cleaner]

Rasiak is near enough gone, so John is possibly back in the fold for the moment. They were both items for sale. It's less likely John is the next to be offloaded now.

Given that BWP wasn't involved at all at Exeter (so no cup-tied stuff) I'd assume he is the next forward to be offloaded now by choice.


It seems to me that all the high earners are "for sale" but some are more for sale than others. Sort of "fairplay all round but we know who we really want to leave" stunt.

[Hacienda]

The OS quotes Poortvleit as saying that Stern could start against Birmingham. JP says Stern is 'back in the squad' from which we must conclude that up until this week, he was not.
So what has changed. Stern's commitment in training is quoted as a reason, and his performance as sub at Exeter, but the other change could be Rasiak's move to Watford. Maybe that has cleared up who will be the other main striker with DMG.

Because he was suspended.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

It would seem that SJ is very much in Poortvleit's plans for Saturday - good job too IMO .

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/display.var.2426032.0.john_looking_to_fire_saints_ against_his_old_club.php

[alpine_saint]

This assumption SJ must be staying because Rasiak is going - bizarre..........

[Hacienda]

This assumption SJ must be staying because Rasiak is going - bizarre..........

An the assumption that SJ is going because GR has gone is bizarre.

[Professor]

he wasn't -he was suspended
Is a one game suspension, when there are two games a week, usually described as being 'out of the squad'? Maybe NickG is right, but I'm more inclined to think this means he and Rasiak were both available for sale on the basis that only one would be allowed to leave.

[alpine_saint]

An the assumption that SJ is going because GR has gone is bizarre.

Who is assuming that then ?

EVERYONE IS UP FOR SALE IF AN OFFER COMES IN.

[NickG]

where has it ever been said that John and Rasiak are going?

It seems most have always been saying that one of them should go, as most on here agreed we cannot play both or afford to have a player such as them on the bench.

One clearly needs to go, I will be surprised and disappointed if both go.

Remember the predictions for the max exodus over the close season and not one new player in?

Hardly any of the players people wanted to stay have gone and there have been a couple of decent signings.

There is no need to lean towards this total doom as it is proving not that bad.

[Hacienda]

Is a one game suspension, when there are two games a week, usually described as being 'out of the squad'? Maybe NickG is right, but I'm more inclined to think this means he and Rasiak were both available for sale on the basis that only one would be allowed to leave.

It's been obvious all pre-season that SJ is the preferred choice in the loan striker role.

GR has always been the square peg.

[Hacienda]

Who is assuming that then ?

You are, unless your addled brain has blown a fuse.

[alpine_saint]

You are, unless your addled brain has blown a fuse.

LOL. I think you need to read that little exchange again, mate...

[itchen]

Who is assuming that then ?

EVERYONE IS UP FOR SALE IF AN OFFER COMES IN.


For once, Alpine is right in that this has always been true. But it depends on the size of the offer.

[dubai_phil]

This assumption SJ must be staying because Rasiak is going - bizarre..........

It may be a bzarre assumption, but equally it may be that we can breathe a sigh of relief. With the JP formation (which most of the PL play these days) we had 4 players for one position of "lone striker". Now two have gone and it APPEARS to be SJ with DMG to fight for the one place.

The trick will still be to keep both of them high on confidence and in form and fit. Playing both in the same side if DMG suddenly becomes a "winger" as in the second half at Exeter may mess up those plans though.

I don't LIKE it but I still expect that we need to reduce the costs and sell Skacel and hopefully Euell but if we can't then Thomas and KD would likely HAVE to be sold to keep us in business, and if THEY can't be sold that leaves us losing Surman, Davies and basically ANY hope for the future.

Saturday will be a better marker for how bad things could be without the old pros. If we get blown away by Brum then panic buttons time. If we give them a good game then this whole thing could work.

Surman is a kid but he has played over 100 games for us, and Gillett & Lallana should have played 20+ games for us last year.

[VectisSaint]

Who is assuming that then ?

EVERYONE IS UP FOR SALE IF AN OFFER COMES IN.
Whilst your statement is true, it is not the same thing as EVERYONE WILL BE SOLD. The plan was to get some of the high earners off of the books, once some have gone that can be reassessed. With Rasiak gone (good) John is almost certain to stay, thats why he's in the squad and playing, while Ras wasn't. Actually I'm really happy about this because SJ is better than GR and we did not need both. Just a shame Greg is going to a rival.

[alpine_saint]

Whilst your statement is true, it is not the same thing as EVERYONE WILL BE SOLD. The plan was to get some of the high earners off of the books, once some have gone that can be reassessed. With Rasiak gone (good) John is almost certain to stay, thats why he's in the squad and playing, while Ras wasn't. Actually I'm really happy about this because SJ is better than GR and we did not need both. Just a shame Greg is going to a rival.

So Rasiak goes to Watford.

Next week some team tables an offer for Stern.

Tell me, what do you think Lowe would do ?

[stevegrant]

So Rasiak goes to Watford.

Next week some team tables an offer for Stern.

Tell me, what do you think Lowe would do ?
Consider it on its merits, like the club should be doing on all offers.

Rasiak and Saganowski clearly don't fit into the intended system (Rasiak particularly) so it makes sense for them to be sent out on loan to relieve a bit of the wage bill for a few months. If someone came in with a ridiculous offer (£1m+) for SJ (which they won't... clearly), it would probably be accepted. However, I would expect that to be subject to us finding a suitable replacement. Whether Rasiak could be moulded to fit into the system at this stage of his career, I'm not convinced, which would probably leave us looking at the loan market for a season-long loan if possible from a lower to mid-table Premier League club. Not ideal, but that's the situation we find ourselves in.

[alpine_saint]

Consider it on its merits, like the club should be doing on all offers.

Rasiak and Saganowski clearly don't fit into the intended system (Rasiak particularly) so it makes sense for them to be sent out on loan to relieve a bit of the wage bill for a few months. If someone came in with a ridiculous offer (£1m+) for SJ (which they won't... clearly), it would probably be accepted. However, I would expect that to be subject to us finding a suitable replacement. Whether Rasiak could be moulded to fit into the system at this stage of his career, I'm not convinced, which would probably leave us looking at the loan market for a season-long loan if possible from a lower to mid-table Premier League club. Not ideal, but that's the situation we find ourselves in.

As I said steve, Saga's move annoyed me more, Rasiak coming on top of that so quickly is just the thin end of the wedge.

[adriansfc]

This assumption SJ must be staying because Rasiak is going - bizarre..........

It is assumed it is more likely he'll stay if Rasiak goes yes. Fairly straightforward logic. John has been involved more than Rasiak, Poortvliet has praised him more, and John wasn't on the list of names mentioned as for sale was he?

[stevegrant]

As I said steve, Saga's move annoyed me more, Rasiak coming on top of that so quickly is just the thin end of the wedge.
I suspect a number of factors have come into the decision to let Saga move to Denmark.

It's probably been a straight choice between him and BWP, and the following have been taken into account:

1. Wages - MS probably slightly higher than BWP
2. Last season's record - 8 goals for BWP, only 3 for MS
3. Willingness to leave - MS has changed clubs quite frequently throughout his career, so he's probably not too bothered about a change

[up and away]

The OS quotes Poortvleit as saying that Stern could start against Birmingham. JP says Stern is 'back in the squad' from which we must conclude that up until this week, he was not.
So what has changed. Stern's commitment in training is quoted as a reason, and his performance as sub at Exeter, but the other change could be Rasiak's move to Watford. Maybe that has cleared up who will be the other main striker with DMG.

The reality is that he was preparing for games with what he knew he would have available. If offers came in for Saga, Rasiak and John, I am sure all would have gone. But it looks like we have not had a decent nibble for John so he will end up remaining by default, so now JP can make use of him. Same thing with Kelvin, but they all accepted pretty early we had no chance with that one. Rasiak wanted to stay and it was not a question of attitude, only of finance.

[PokingFun]

As I said steve, Saga's move annoyed me more, Rasiak coming on top of that so quickly is just the thin end of the wedge.

You do not seem to understand even now that we are skint and need to reduce our costs significantly and therefore Saga, Rasiak and Skacel all have to be moved on.

Whether this is down to mis-management by Wilde, Hone or Crouch who all seem to have sanctioned big money deals at various stages is largely irrelevant as blaming people does not turn back the clock. What Lowe is doing now is ensuring action is taken to stop our freefall toward administration. It is what i call essential maintenance and it makes sense because the only other option is gambling with our future and we have already tried and failed with that!

[DT]

So Rasiak goes to Watford.

Next week some team tables an offer for Stern.

Tell me, what do you think Lowe would do ?

I think he'd turn over in bed, and whisper across the pillow to Sir Clive Woodward: 'I've got rid of another one, pet.'
Sir Clive would then get on with some elite dreaming, aided by the best sport science known to man.

[TopGun]

I think he'd turn over in bed, and whisper across the pillow to Sir Clive Woodward: 'I've got rid of another one, pet.'
Sir Clive would then get on with some elite dreaming, aided by the best sport science known to man.

lol :)

[alpine_saint]

i think he'd turn over in bed, and whisper across the pillow to sir clive woodward: 'i've got rid of another one, pet.'
sir clive would then get on with some elite dreaming, aided by the best sport science known to man.

lol.

[Wopper]

Must be difficult running an established football club into the ground.

[alpine_saint]

I suspect a number of factors have come into the decision to let Saga move to Denmark.

It's probably been a straight choice between him and BWP, and the following have been taken into account:

1. Wages - MS probably slightly higher than BWP
2. Last season's record - 8 goals for BWP, only 3 for MS
3. Willingness to leave - MS has changed clubs quite frequently throughout his career, so he's probably not too bothered about a change

For me, those reasons are all tenuous. They are too marginal to be real justifications. OK, point 2 is a fact, but I estimate that BWP had probably many more appearances.

I cannot forget how many times BWP choked in one-on-ones...

[alpine_saint]

You do not seem to understand even now that we are skint and need to reduce our costs significantly and therefore Saga, Rasiak and Skacel all have to be moved on.

Whether this is down to mis-management by Wilde, Hone or Crouch who all seem to have sanctioned big money deals at various stages is largely irrelevant as blaming people does not turn back the clock. What Lowe is doing now is ensuring action is taken to stop our freefall toward administration. It is what i call essential maintenance and it makes sense because the only other option is gambling with our future and we have already tried and failed with that!

I'll tell you what is gambling with our future :

- Trying a management system that has already FAILED at least twice before at your own hands.

- Relying on a bunch of teenagers to make the grade whilst giving away any established experienced players you have, with little attempt to integrate their talents

- Employing a management team with little feel for the English CCC game

To me, THOSE are real risks.

[PokingFun]

I'll tell you what is gambling with our future :

- Trying a management system that has already FAILED at least twice before at your own hands.

- Relying on a bunch of teenagers to make the grade whilst giving away any established experienced players you have, with little attempt to integrate their talents

- Employing a management team with little feel for the English CCC game

To me, THOSE are real risks.

Agree they are risks but we should wait and see how we go now as there is nowt we can do to influence matters.

[VectisSaint]

So Rasiak goes to Watford.

Next week some team tables an offer for Stern.

Tell me, what do you think Lowe would do ?
Perhaps, just perhaps Lowe would have already checked with his head coach and said something like, so now that I have got rid of the lazy **** Rasiak for a decent loan fee and saved about 1 mill GBP in wages as well I guess that means I should keep the other not quite so lazy **** Stern John. Agreed? And JP would say, yes that would be a good idea, John is part of the squad and looks up for the fight. Even Lowe is not so stupid (?) as to sell both main strikers (at least I hope he isn't).

Have you considered also that maybe, just maybe getting rid of Saga and Ras may free up enough funds so that we could bring someone already identified as a loan target to fill one of the FB gaps, which would be a good idea. Last season you harped on about no CBs, quite rightly, but for some reason you are missing the important point this season, no FBs.

Everything is not quite so black and white as you make out Alps. You make some valid points with your remarks many of which I agree with, but other times your remarks are just inane. I dislike Lowe intensely but I do give him some credit, albeit begrudgingly most of the time.

[dubai_phil]

I'll tell you what is gambling with our future :

- Trying a management system that has already FAILED at least twice before at your own hands.

- Relying on a bunch of teenagers to make the grade whilst giving away any established experienced players you have, with little attempt to integrate their talents

- Employing a management team with little feel for the English CCC game

To me, THOSE are real risks.

Yes they are. The PROBLEM is I haven't seen an alternative.

We are broke, the expenditure vs income is horrific for last year.

The alternative "boards" appear to have made the mess Lowe left us with worse.

Nobody has bought us or given us 10mil and I and many on here are struggling to find an alternative which is why although we are REALLY p*ssed that Lowe came back we have a grudging acceptance that there isn't really any choice. If we don't stem the losses we bleed to death. We undergo nasty radical surgery and we may survive.

The only alternatives we have seen so far have been "should have kept NP", "shouldn't sell players" or simple "abuse" at Lowe for only wanting to protect his investment. Nothing actually creative that gets us out the sh*t.

I like you hate it, but I see it as the only hope as I honestly do not believe that we would ever recover from administration. Getting out of it is NOT easy as others have found out.

Other than backing Platini or lobbying for changes to the way TV money is allocated I just don't see an alternative..

[Saint_clark]

It'd be a shame if John was frozen out. He's just had one of the best seasons of his career, so if he then was left out in favour of someone who had never played regularly in competitive games that would probably be it for him.

[saintrich]

He definitely deserves to start tomorrow - his substitute appearance at Exeter changed the game.

I'd like to see an attacking line up of:

Lallana - CM/AM

McGoldrick - RW
Holmes - LW

John - CF

[ottery st mary]

It'd be a shame if John was frozen out. He's just had one of the best seasons of his career, so if he then was left out in favour of someone who had never played regularly in competitive games that would probably be it for him.

Watching the Exeter game it is quite clear that John is required to play a major part in our game plan.

[derry]

He definitely deserves to start tomorrow - his substitute appearance at Exeter changed the game.

I'd like to see an attacking line up of:

Lallana - CM/AM

McGoldrick - RW
Holmes - LW

John - CF

I think you will get your wish.

[31cc]

Remember the 'rule' that ex-players always score against their old clubs... he has to play! (I won't mention Kevin Philips :D)

[ypbl]

Surman is a kid but he has played over 100 games for us, and Gillett & Lallana should have played 20+ games for us last year.

I make it that Surman has played 91 times for the first team

[dubai_phil]

I make it that Surman has played 91 times for the first team

Sorry read the figure in an interview with AS on the OS....

[saintjinksie]

The OS quotes Poortvleit as saying that Stern could start against Birmingham. JP says Stern is 'back in the squad' from which we must conclude that up until this week, he was not.
So what has changed. Stern's commitment in training is quoted as a reason, and his performance as sub at Exeter, but the other change could be Rasiak's move to Watford. Maybe that has cleared up who will be the other main striker with DMG.

we were a totally different team when he came on

[hypochondriac]

Davis

James Perry Svennson Surman


McGoldrick Schneiderlin Gillet Lallana Holmes

John


Would perform really well IMO. Muscle at the back and up front with the option to bring Wotton in if needed.

[Chez]

I'll tell you what is gambling with our future :

- Trying a management system that has already FAILED at least twice before at your own hands.

- Relying on a bunch of teenagers to make the grade whilst giving away any established experienced players you have, with little attempt to integrate their talents

- Employing a management team with little feel for the English CCC game

To me, THOSE are real risks.

I agree with you but does Lowe actually have any choice but to offload the top earners if we are to not go bankrupt.

[Dicko]

Rasiak is near enough gone, so John is possibly back in the fold for the moment. They were both items for sale. It's less likely John is the next to be offloaded now.

Given that BWP wasn't involved at all at Exeter (so no cup-tied stuff) I'd assume he is the next forward to be offloaded now by choice.

10 mins before the Exeter game was due to kick-off, BWP was in Tesco Ocean Village buying cakes and Grolsch!!

I didn't bother speaking to him though

[Rod Le Shearer]

If it is true that Rasiak is off then I have no doubt that we will keep hold of Stern.

Good move too as he fits into our new system much better than GR.

excactly. we couldnt get any other striker from this league,with the same potential as Stern for our new formation IMO.
he holds the ball up,can score from distance and finish off crosses. I`d have him over Rasiak every day of the week !

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please pm with any questions

[St Chalet]

10 mins before the Exeter game was due to kick-off, BWP was in Tesco Ocean Village buying cakes and Grolsch!!

I didn't bother speaking to him though

Glad to see he is bonding with our new Dutch setup.

[wightman35]

Yes they are. The PROBLEM is I haven't seen an alternative.

We are broke, the expenditure vs income is horrific for last year.

The alternative "boards" appear to have made the mess Lowe left us with worse.

Nobody has bought us or given us 10mil and I and many on here are struggling to find an alternative which is why although we are REALLY p*ssed that Lowe came back we have a grudging acceptance that there isn't really any choice. If we don't stem the losses we bleed to death. We undergo nasty radical surgery and we may survive.

The only alternatives we have seen so far have been "should have kept NP", "shouldn't sell players" or simple "abuse" at Lowe for only wanting to protect his investment. Nothing actually creative that gets us out the sh*t.

I like you hate it, but I see it as the only hope as I honestly do not believe that we would ever recover from administration. Getting out of it is NOT easy as others have found out.

Other than backing Platini or lobbying for changes to the way TV money is allocated I just don't see an alternative..

Best Post of the week. Thanks Phil! A very good reality check for us all.

[saintwarwick]

You do not seem to understand even now that we are skint and need to reduce our costs significantly and therefore Saga, Rasiak and Skacel all have to be moved on.

Whether this is down to mis-management by Wilde, Hone or Crouch who all seem to have sanctioned big money deals at various stages is largely irrelevant as blaming people does not turn back the clock. What Lowe is doing now is ensuring action is taken to stop our freefall toward administration. It is what i call essential maintenance and it makes sense because the only other option is gambling with our future and we have already tried and failed with that!

Unfortunately as many times as you try to explain to Alpine about this it just seems to go through one ear and straight out of the other and according to him it's all nasty Lowes fault.

[saintwarwick]

Sorry read the figure in an interview with AS on the OS....

Before this season started he had played 80 times with another 18 sub appearances.

[dubai_phil]

Before this season started he had played 80 times with another 18 sub appearances.

Cheers, that seems pretty close to 100. Especially as he had quite a few first team games out on loan. Probably more than Davies??

[Wildgoose]

Yes they are. The PROBLEM is I haven't seen an alternative.

We are broke, the expenditure vs income is horrific for last year.

The alternative "boards" appear to have made the mess Lowe left us with worse.

Nobody has bought us or given us 10mil and I and many on here are struggling to find an alternative which is why although we are REALLY p*ssed that Lowe came back we have a grudging acceptance that there isn't really any choice. If we don't stem the losses we bleed to death. We undergo nasty radical surgery and we may survive.

The only alternatives we have seen so far have been "should have kept NP", "shouldn't sell players" or simple "abuse" at Lowe for only wanting to protect his investment. Nothing actually creative that gets us out the sh*t.

I like you hate it, but I see it as the only hope as I honestly do not believe that we would ever recover from administration. Getting out of it is NOT easy as others have found out.

Other than backing Platini or lobbying for changes to the way TV money is allocated I just don't see an alternative..

That's about it I think! Frustrating as it is.......good down to earth post.

[Professor]

Stern's name on the team sheet changes the whole look of the team and will give any opponents, including Birmingham today, cause to worry. But I do just wonder how a thread I started about Stern has turned into another Lowe debate... I do enjoy Lowe debates, but it is also nice to have football and player threads that are Lowe-free.
I feel Stern will score today, and I can see him having another 20 goal season.

[SaintRobbie]

The OS quotes Poortvleit as saying that Stern could start against Birmingham. JP says Stern is 'back in the squad' from which we must conclude that up until this week, he was not.
So what has changed. Stern's commitment in training is quoted as a reason, and his performance as sub at Exeter, but the other change could be Rasiak's move to Watford. Maybe that has cleared up who will be the other main striker with DMG.

Simple fact that Stern is our most ecperienced and best striker.

WE MUST NOT SELL HIM if we are to stand a slight chance at staying in this league.

[SaintRobbie]

... or are we keeping him because we now have the cash as at last we're about to be taken over?

[tawani]

John mcgold lalania then white patterson...seems reasonable if we cannot afford bwp as well

[saintsfannick]

stern john missed sitters today which in the end cost us