Surman to Reading?

[Wildgoose]

Came across this link just now

http://www.people.co.uk/sport/football/tm_headline=hotline-yes-sur-he-ll-do-for-cop%26method=full%26objectid=20701188%26siteid=934 63-name_page.html

I know it's The People, but there seem to be some indications that something may really be happening.....

If it does happen, is the bottom falling out or can we continue building?
What do you think?

[Master Bates]

There were ITK rumours of Reading's interest in Surman.

[alpine_saint]

Assuming for one moment its true (and almost every other transfer rumour seems to be coming true), this is final proof the club is in a free-fall that will only end with administration, sooner or later.

There is no way the team can withstand all these knock-backs - sooner or later they will cease to be a team.

What odds on Saints surviving the season ?

[Saint2Hotty]

Thats all we need. Do we actually have anyone else, other than skacel if he doesnt go that can play left back? If this is going to happen i would hope that we already have someone lined up to come in on loan to cover that position, or is that me being slightly optamistic?

[alpine_saint]

This also appears to affect one of JPs first-choice players for the first time.

The cuts are getting deeper...

[Faz]

Assuming for one moment its true (and almost every other transfer rumour seems to be coming true), this is final proof the club is in a free-fall that will only end with administration, sooner or later.

There is no way the team can withstand all these knock-backs - sooner or later they will cease to be a team.

What odds on Saints surviving the season ?

The only thing it proves, if true, is what we already knew. We are in the mire financially. Having failed to shift some of he higher earners - because they are higher earners in this league, others are open to offers.

It seems to me the point of this is to avoid administration.

[alpine_saint]

The only thing it proves, if true, is what we already knew. We are in the mire financially. Having failed to shift some of he higher earners - because they are higher earners in this league, others are open to offers.

It seems to me the point of this is to avoid administration.

But cant you see ?

Because we havent got rid of the likes of Euell and Skacel (but bizarrely, arent playing them either), Lowe is having to go further down the list, and for each player he disposes of down that list, he is making lesss and less contribution to the overall saving agreed with the bank, meaning MORE of those lower-list players have to go.

This is going to tear the team apart.

[obelisk]

Surman didn't seem motivated to me and his performance as a left back was worse than useless. If we can't play him where his best talents lie then I wouldn't blame him for moving on. At this rate it looks like I might get a game if I turn up with my boots.

[Bourno]

Seems strange that he would leave us for another Championship team.

Whilst I don't want him to go I would accept him moving to the Premiership because we may not be back there during his playing career.

[dubai_phil]

But cant you see ?

Because we havent got rid of the likes of Euell and Skacel (but bizarrely, arent playing them either), Lowe is having to go further down the list, and for each player he disposes of down that list, he is making lesss and less contribution to the overall saving agreed with the bank, meaning MORE of those lower-list players have to go.

This is going to tear the team apart.

Posted similar train of thought before. If we don't lose Skacel & Euell we would have to lose Davis Davies and or Surman.

Drew is a good player, think he is more suited at left midfield, but with the formation we now have that position seems to be more suited to a pacy winger. Central midfield has better cover. So we haven't got rid of the deadwood and we are left with the family silver having to go.

Nobody on here would pick Euell over Surman even allowing Euell's last performances under NP. They may be more evenly split over Drew vs Skacel.

The bread on the sh*t sandwich seems to be getting thinner each passing day. About the only positive anyone could see is we get an exprienced International Footballer coming in at left back...
hmmm

Poortvliet clearly said before the season that he feels a first team squad of 24 players is the level for us with (my words) the "younger youngsters" adding the cover. It will be interesting to see what we have left at the end of the window. Moves into the loan market become more and more important now once 31st Aug has been and gone.

(And I guess will depend on getting rid of Thomas if we can't move Euell or Skacel)

Great work in securing these PL quality players on long contracts guys

And good to know the likes of Sheff U & Watford will have similar issues once their parachute payments run out

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

But cant you see ?

Because we havent got rid of the likes of Euell and Skacel (but bizarrely, arent playing them either), Lowe is having to go further down the list, and for each player he disposes of down that list, he is making lesss and less contribution to the overall saving agreed with the bank, meaning MORE of those lower-list players have to go.

This is going to tear the team apart.

This strikes me as true .
Neither Skacel or Euell seem wanted (or affordable anyway) at the club but you can't really blame them for sitting on their contracts in the absence of a better offer - we all have to look after our own interests at the end of the day. I suspect that Skacel will leave soon , but we may have to virtually give away a £750k player and just take a loss on the deal .

The failure to achieve a decent income from the players that have left this summer has forced us into disposing of players we'd much rather keep (Davies / Surman ?) this can only have a damaging effect on an already desperately 'thin' squad .

I just can't wait for midnight August 31st and get this awful business over with , at least then we will know where we stand .

[dubai_phil]

FWIW I expect we will still be able to get Skacel & Euell off the books during the loan window.
We'd just probably have to pay about half of their wages. So we get a reduction in costs but the continued sales reflect it won't be enough AND it would damage the ability to afford loans.

[Chez]

FWIW I expect we will still be able to get Skacel & Euell off the books during the loan window.
We'd just probably have to pay about half of their wages. So we get a reduction in costs but the continued sales reflect it won't be enough AND it would damage the ability to afford loans.

we could have paid Skacel the £4k a week he would have been losing if he joined Ipswich

[Hacienda]

Don't sell players, go into administration and get relegated due to points loss.

Sell our players, don't go into administration but get relegated due to not having enough points.

To conclude. We're fooooooked.

[Weston Saint]

Drew will be gutted if he has to leave Saints. They are all he wants to play for.

The only way he will go is if Saints say they want to sell him and as of yesterday afternoon he and his family were unaware of any such plans.

His agent was in the crowd watching him play.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Don't sell players, go into administration and get relegated due to points loss.

Sell our players, don't go into administration but get relegated due to not having enough points.

To conclude. We're fooooooked.

"That's catch-22 Yossarian"

[John B]

It is a really difficult situation the board now has.

If we do not get income in for transfer fees we go into Administration.


So we want to sell players like Rasiak Euell Skacel etc there wages are too high but nobody wants them which I probably agree with( I could ask why we were paying so much in wages for these players over relatively long contracts but that wont help anybody)

We are then left with the only option which is to sell our better young players which will probably lead to worse results and less income from gate receipts which may lead to relegation and administration.

Not an easy call

[Whitey Grandad]

Don't sell players, go into administration and get relegated due to points loss.

Sell our players, don't go into administration but get relegated due to not having enough points.

To conclude. We're fooooooked.

That's the long and the short of it. I once saw a cartoon that said 'I feel so much better now that I've given up hope'

[John B]

Drew will be gutted if he has to leave Saints. They are all he wants to play for.

The only way he will go is if Saints say they want to sell him and as of yesterday afternoon he and his family were unaware of any such plans.

His agent was in the crowd watching him play.


That maybe true but I would have thought his agent would like to move him on

[Weston Saint]

That maybe true but I would have thought his agent would like to move him on


Not maybe, I spoke to them at half time. And no his agent is not looking for a move for him.

Drew would rather play in midfield but is happy as left back as long as he is "in the game" and able to get forward.

[Snowballs2]

The only thing it proves, if true, is what we already knew. We are in the mire financially. Having failed to shift some of he higher earners - because they are higher earners in this league, others are open to offers.

It seems to me the point of this is to avoid administration.

I am one of those who feel that the owners who have mismanaged for years deserve to lose their money, for that vindictive reason I would not worry about Administration. As a club we are ****ed.
Let the phoenix rise from the ashes without Wilde ,Lowe et al.

[Hacienda]

I am one of those who feel that the owners who have mismanaged for years deserve to lose their money, for that vindictive reason I would not worry about Administration. As a club we are ****ed.
Let the phoenix rise from the ashes without Wilde ,Lowe et al.

Now I dislike Lowe with a passion and have no time for his quisling. However, only an idiot thinks administration is the way forward.

[Cabrone]

I absolutely refuse to fund Lowe et al and if that means the club goes through serious pain then so be it. I will not fund a wrecking crew of a board.

Selling a good player like Davies for a paltry 1.5 M is typical for Lowe. Has he got any contingency plan if Killer's knee packs up? Nope, didn't think so.

The man is a slash and burn merchant, sure we save initial costs but all it gets us is implosion after implosion.

Weaker squads - losing games - less fans - less revenue - weaker squads and on and on we go until the bank pulls the plug on the whole operation.

We are where we are in large part because of his useless meddling.

If he was any good he'd have been offered work elsewhere but I didn't see a stampede of clubs banging down his door when we gave him the boot last time. Shame.

Lowe, do the decent thing and walk away. You are not welcome by the majority of the fans at SFC.

[lordswoodsaints]

other than a takeover there is only one way that the club can stop the cutbacks and that is for all the missing fans that filled the stadium when we were in the prem to return...............where the **** are they?
surely they cant all be 'working different hours','have other commitments' or 'cant afford it'.

[Hacienda]

other than a takeover there is only one way that the club can stop the cutbacks and that is for all the missing fans that filled the stadium when we were in the prem to return...............where the **** are they?
surely they cant all be 'working different hours','have other commitments' or 'cant afford it'.

Some won't go because of money. Some won't go because of last seasons cr@p football. Some won't go because of Lowe.

SFC is haemorrhaging fans at the same rate as players.

[miserableoldgit]

Seems strange that he would leave us for another Championship team.

Whilst I don't want him to go I would accept him moving to the Premiership because we may not be back there during his playing career.
Which club has the better chance of a quick return to the Prem? Surman is not Prem class at the moment.

[John B]

I am one of those who feel that the owners who have mismanaged for years deserve to lose their money, for that vindictive reason I would not worry about Administration. As a club we are ****ed.
Let the phoenix rise from the ashes without Wilde ,Lowe et al.


Administration is rather extreme

Lots of other people other than Lowe etc will lose their money too

But whatever happens things are not going to look good for sometime and we have to accept it.

[John B]

Which club has the better chance of a quick return to the Prem? Surman is not Prem class at the moment.



Yes I agree with you

Also what I do not understand is why he is rated £2.5 M whilst Davies is only £1.5 Mill


I think we should let him go for £2.5 M most fans think he is not a fullback and I cannot see where else he will play regularly.

He could then be replaced by a Lonee or Transfered player

[Snowballs2]

other than a takeover there is only one way that the club can stop the cutbacks and that is for all the missing fans that filled the stadium when we were in the prem to return...............where the **** are they?
surely they cant all be 'working different hours','have other commitments' or 'cant afford it'.

No many will no longer fund Lowes / Wildes mistakes

[Snowballs2]

Administration is rather extreme

Lots of other people other than Lowe etc will lose their money too

But whatever happens things are not going to look good for sometime and we have to accept it.


I will NOT accept it.

[John B]

I will NOT accept it.

Why not ?

I think Wilde's decisions are more questionable than Lowe's


Everbody makes mistakes I certainly do but one has to accept them one cannot live in the past

[Faz]

But cant you see ?

Because we havent got rid of the likes of Euell and Skacel (but bizarrely, arent playing them either), Lowe is having to go further down the list, and for each player he disposes of down that list, he is making lesss and less contribution to the overall saving agreed with the bank, meaning MORE of those lower-list players have to go.

This is going to tear the team apart.


Of course I can see that. You're not the only one with a degree in stating the bleedin' obvious.

The point is, what is the alternative? It might be, as you have stated elsewhere in your continual capaign of negativity, a choice between Administartion now or Admnistartion later, but there is no doubt we need to raise funds. Personally I would prefer to avoid Adminstration now, and hope we can garner sufficient points this season and build from there. We are where we are, and I see little point in contiually sniping. Is your only alternative strategy Administration now????

[John B]

Of course I can see that. You're not the only one with a degree in stating the bleedin' obvious.

The point is, what is the alternative? It might be, as you have stated elsewhere in your continual capaign of negativity, a choice between Administartion now or Admnistartion later, but there is no doubt we need to raise funds. Personally I would prefer to avoid Adminstration now, and hope we can garner sufficient points this season and build from there. We are where we are, and I see little point in contiually sniping. Is your only alternative strategy Administration now????

Extremely Well Put

We need to support the Club not continually whinge because eventually things will turn for the better

[Weston Saint]

If we were to go into Administration the Administrator will sell off (give away) all our high earners to manage the debt going forward.

Customs and Excise will not agree CVA so we will not only be docked 10 points meaning inevitable relegation but starting the next season with a penalty of approximately 17 points with a weak squad meaning further relegation an almost certainty.

All the club are trying to do is manage the wage bill to avoid the other penalties.

How many hard working small businesses will fail because Saints cannot pay off what is owed to them?

Surman is not a high earner so I doubt he will be offered for sale. The strategy is to get rid of the high earners hence Davies going. Same for all the others.

So to sum up, like them or loath them, Lowe and Wilde have no alternative.

[Bailey]

I was feeling reasonably confident during pre-season with the squad we have and with the prospect of Davies returning to fitness. However, if we were to lose Davies AND Surman, then I think we will be struggling. Our squad is hardly huge as it is and we're in a difficult situation. I just hope we can offload the likes of Skacel and Euell to avoid us having to lose more important first team players.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

If we were to go into Administration the Administrator will sell off (give away) all our high earners to manage the debt going forward.

Customs and Excise will not agree CVA so we will not only be docked 10 points meaning inevitable relegation but starting the next season with a penalty of approximately 17 points with a weak squad meaning further relegation an almost certainty.

All the club are trying to do is manage the wage bill to avoid the other penalties.

How many hard working small businesses will fail because Saints cannot pay off what is owed to them?

Surman is not a high earner so I doubt he will be offered for sale. The strategy is to get rid of the high earners hence Davies going. Same for all the others.

So to sum up, like them or loath them, Lowe and Wilde have no alternative.

Think we all understand this but can you or anyone explain why we bought
Schniderlien if we are trying to cut costs?????

[Pokerchampion]

hence the poor display from surman yesterday , was a shadow of himself , not fluent coming foward , thought something was a miss from him , ENOUGH SAID BYE Surman ,
Freefall with no emergency parachute ?????

[ottery st mary]

Surman didn't seem motivated to me and his performance as a left back was worse than useless. If we can't play him where his best talents lie then I wouldn't blame him for moving on. At this rate it looks like I might get a game if I turn up with my boots.

Be at Derby next week and your in.

[Weston Super Saint]

Excellent news.

How young does a player need to be to get an FA registration?

Some of our youth team must be getting excited about getting their chance now : roll :

[up and away]

If we were to go into Administration the Administrator will sell off (give away) all our high earners to manage the debt going forward.

Customs and Excise will not agree CVA so we will not only be docked 10 points meaning inevitable relegation but starting the next season with a penalty of approximately 17 points with a weak squad meaning further relegation an almost certainty.

All the club are trying to do is manage the wage bill to avoid the other penalties.

How many hard working small businesses will fail because Saints cannot pay off what is owed to them?

Surman is not a high earner so I doubt he will be offered for sale. The strategy is to get rid of the high earners hence Davies going. Same for all the others.

So to sum up, like them or loath them, Lowe and Wilde have no alternative.

This is the choice we have to make, administration or attempt to avoid it with no guarantee we will be successful. With most businesses the plug would already have been pulled and we would be floating don the river, but for some reason football clubs are the equivalent of the cat with nine lives in this respect. Every high earner we have on our books has been available for sale since the end of last season, but we have just not been able to shift enough to plug the hole that is leaking the finances. In addition to getting parity on the wage bill we are still amassing/ed debt from these losses that have to be squared in some manner. If the debt can be restructured then the likes of Surman can remain, otherwise anything that can command a transfer fee will have to be sold to alleviate this problem. The only thing that Saints have on their side is to give the belief to their creditors that by developing our only assets (the youth), they have a far better chance of a return then placing us in administration. This is the position we find ourselves in and we have no one to blame but ourselves. If anyone believes adminstration is the better option then think again. All of the above will still happen, but sold off cheaper and quicker than imagineable and with a 17 point deduction as a going away present.

[Nexstar]

Would be terrible if he went, but maybe lowe is thinking if we managed to get enough out of reading for him the 'uncertain' furutres of skacel and euell may be at southampton.

[saintkiptanui]

Seems we can't get rid of Skacel so instead we will off load Surman, if we get 2.5 million that is a lot of money for a half decent player who most think isn't a left back but thats where he will be played this season so we are getting a lot of cash for an average left back, I'd snap there hand off and bring Skacel back in.

[Nexstar]

Seems we can't get rid of Skacel so instead we will off load Surman, if we get 2.5 million that is a lot of money for a half decent player who most think isn't a left back but thats where he will be played this season so we are getting a lot of cash for an average left back, I'd snap there hand off and bring Skacel back in.

Would hopefully 'steady the ship' abit more.

[Weston Super Saint]

This is the choice we have to make,

Conversely every other business I have ever worked for that relies on customers for its income, when facing 'bad times', they try to attract more customers, and try to get the existing customers to 'visit' more often, and spend more money to increase revenue / turnover, thus affecting profits......

So can someone please explain to me why the ONLY option available to SFC is to slash its costs and hope for the best???

[Window Cleaner]

Think we all understand this but can you or anyone explain why we bought
Schniderlien if we are trying to cut costs?????



i expect we counted on actually selling, Saga?Rasiak and Skacel amongst others. The fact that they are either still here dragging us down or gone with nothing but a measly loan fee to show for it explains everything.We bought or
engaged players we couldn't afford, to please most of the fans and "get our club back". Collectively they didn't deliver and now everybody has to pay for it. That means a lot of novice players, a cheap coach,staff cuts and whatever.
If you're looking for someone to blame there is only one direction to look in. The playing staff who took the club for about 12 million quid in salaries last season and just about avoided relegation.That's where the buck stops, all the rest is just sour grapes in various directions. Barnsley stayed up and got to
the later stage of the FA Cup, I bet their wage bill was about 3 million quid
at most.These players(you all know who they are) have brought our proud club to it's knees, whether they were mismanaged,should or shouldn't have
been bought is neither here or there, they were paid top dollar,the job they did was pitiful.So pitiful in fact that we had to get in loan players every five minutes to do the job THEY were being paid millions of pounds to do.
I'd clear out every damn one of them and start with the youth team if necessary,trouble is they have contracts so we're stuck with them.

[up and away]

Think we all understand this but can you or anyone explain why we bought
Schniderlien if we are trying to cut costs?????

This is a valid question which goes against this whole event and I can only assume we have had help from some source related to the club. When we signed the likes of Wotton, Holmes and Perry early doors, a lot thought this as a good sign that things were not so bad. But as was explained to me at the time it was an even worse indicator, in that we were fooked anyway if we could not move on the high earners and in getting in the frees early at least gave us a chance of putting a team on the pitch, than if we left it to the last minute.

When we signed Saga we used the logic that even if we could not afford to keep him, we could readily sell him on, possibly at a good profit. Well the bank has seen where that one got us, so I really doubt they would have bought into that scenario. The only thing that makes any sense there is that we had financial help from outside the plc.

[OldNick]

All this questions why the last board santioned the signings and wages of Davies Thomas Euell etc last season while we obviously heading for dire financial troubles.

[saintkiptanui]

Conversely every other business I have ever worked for that relies on customers for its income, when facing 'bad times', they try to attract more customers, and try to get the existing customers to 'visit' more often, and spend more money to increase revenue / turnover, thus affecting profits......

So can someone please explain to me why the ONLY option available to SFC is to slash its costs and hope for the best???If more people had truned up yesterday and seen how good the football was they would keep coming, why is evryone so desperate to keep the utter sh*t that played for us last year, we are miles better now.

[Weston Super Saint]

If more people had truned up yesterday and seen how good the football was they would keep coming, why is evryone so desperate to keep the utter sh*t that played for us last year, we are miles better now.

And still lost....

[saintkiptanui]

And still lost....against probably the best team in the league after giving them a lesson in football in the first half, FFS FFS FFS last year we would of lost by 5 or 6.

[adriansfc]

Would have thought he'd get a lower Premiership club. Suppose Reading would tempt him though.

No matter how much we might want to keep him, or how vital he is to us, if a bid of 2m or so comes in I don't see how the club can turn it down in the current state. Same with any player we have.

[Whitey Grandad]

against probably the best team in the league after giving them a lesson in football in the first half, FFS FFS FFS last year we would of lost by 5 or 6.

Let's not get carried away. With a motivating manager last year's squad would beat this one 7 times out of 10

[adriansfc]

And still lost....

To Birmingham, who will win the league, and to Cardiff, who got to the cup final, and who beat us more easily last year, IMO. We weren't outclassed by either, yet many people said we'd be miles behind such teams in terms of quality. Personally, I think we'll lose to Derby too, and 3 games 0 points will look terrible, but I still think we'll have a good season given the lack of finances. That's what the fixture list can do to you. We could have started with Blackpool at home, Barnsley away etc, won a couple, had all the optimism, but still finish the season in the same place. It's 2 games, get over it. I'll judge it nearer Christmas.

[adriansfc]

Let's not get carried away. With a motivating manager last year's squad would beat this one 7 times out of 10


I saw last seasons team a lot. I don't think they'd have beaten anyone 7 games out of 10. They were a disorganised, unfit lazy mess.

Is Wright or Ostlund better than James?

Powell better than Killer?

Safri better than Schneiderlin?

I can't think of one player we've lost that I'd want. Davies will be one, but he wasn't even playing most of last season so won't be noticed as much as people think.

[Whitey Grandad]

I saw last seasons team a lot. I don't think they'd have beaten anyone 7 games out of 10. They were a disorganised, unfit lazy mess.

Skacel / Holmes?
Rasiak / McGoldrick?
Saganowski / Thomson?

There was a proviso about motivation at the beginning of my post. I think that disorganzed and unfit apply to most of the second half yesterday. The marking for their two goals was non-existent.

[Weston Super Saint]

If more people had truned up yesterday and seen how good the football was they would keep coming, why is evryone so desperate to keep the utter sh*t that played for us last year, we are miles better now.

So we need to HOPE that an unproven mangement duo, in charge of an unproven squad of youngsters and by all accounts overpaid journeymen that can't even get on the bench, will HOPEFULLY start to perform and attract more people to pay to watch.

And all this HOPING has been signed off by the bank manager....

I wish I had the same bank manager, I reckon I could get a mortgage at about 2% fixed for life :shock:

[alpine_saint]

Don't sell players, go into administration and get relegated due to points loss.

Sell our players, don't go into administration but get relegated due to not having enough points.

To conclude. We're fooooooked.

The penny drops. Can we be friends now ?

[dubai_phil]

28 players in the first team squad on the OS.

JP said 24 in one of his early interviews (wish I could find it been googling all day!).

4 still to go then

Davies Surman, hopefully Euell & Skacel, if not.... crikes

[Faz]

Don't sell players, go into administration and get relegated due to points loss.

Sell our players, don't go into administration but get relegated due to not having enough points.

To conclude. We're fooooooked


The penny drops. Can we be friends now ?

One event is a certainty (almost), the other is not. Unless you choose to tint your realism with an unhealhy does of pessimism.

[Le Goddard]

Its now i would like to point out.

1.5mill is the rumoured price for davies.
Surmans agent has had no contact from reading
Mills is a far better player than surman.
You can be sure lowe wont do a ****e deal for davies.
A lot of people still havent accepted the mess we are in.
We play with passion and entertain (more than we did last season)
2 games in lost by 1 goal in each against 2 top 6 sides.
Birmingham will win the league.
Chill out yoooo.

[phatangsaint]

true ... but still dont like the sounds of all our better players being sold esp two as i see as at the heart of saints

[Dicko]

Seems we can't get rid of Skacel so instead we will off load Surman, if we get 2.5 million that is a lot of money for a half decent player who most think isn't a left back but thats where he will be played this season so we are getting a lot of cash for an average left back, I'd snap there hand off and bring Skacel back in.

I tend to agree.

Clearly, the board are having trouble getting shot of Skacel

If his mind is right, I think he's a better player at left-back than Surman anyway, so this might not be a total disaster

[Hacienda]

The penny drops. Can we be friends now ?

The penny dropped along time ago Thrush. I, however, will get behind the nippers because they are making a fist of it.

[musesaint]

We are fcu*k'd

For god's sake ...selling Drew is heresy ....does Lowe have no decency??

[Matthew Le God]

You can be sure lowe wont do a ****e deal for davies.


What if there in a min release clause in Andrew Davies contract saying if a Premiership club comes in at 1.3m then he can go? It wouldn't be Ruperts fault but there wouldn't be anything he could do to make it a good deal for Saints as 1.3m is far far below Davies value.

[Snowballs2]

Why not ?

I think Wilde's decisions are more questionable than Lowe's


Everbody makes mistakes I certainly do but one has to accept them one cannot live in the past


Continuous mistakes is what has got us into this mess. Its time for those in positions of management to stop making them.

[saintkiptanui]

So we need to HOPE that an unproven mangement duo, in charge of an unproven squad of youngsters and by all accounts overpaid journeymen that can't even get on the bench, will HOPEFULLY start to perform and attract more people to pay to watch.

And all this HOPING has been signed off by the bank manager....

I wish I had the same bank manager, I reckon I could get a mortgage at about 2% fixed for life :shock:they did perform.

[alpine_saint]

they did perform.

For a third of the match, in one formation only.

[John B]

Continuous mistakes is what has got us into this mess. Its time for those in positions of management to stop making them.

What mistakes are you talking about

The mistake in kicking out Lowe in the first place.

Or buying second rate players on high wages to please the fans.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

What mistakes are you talking about

The mistake in kicking out Lowe in the first place.

Or buying second rate players on high wages to please the fans.

What about the lack of investment in the team when we had all the riches
of the premiership?

[John B]

What about the lack of investment in the team when we had all the riches
of the premiership?

What Riches?

If there was money to invest and it was not invested surely it would be still around somewhere

[ALWAYS_SFC]

What Riches?

Are you serious?

[alpine_saint]

What Riches?

If there was money to invest and it was not invested surely it would be still around somewhere

It went on paying off managers, engaging with PR companies, and taking EGMs to the 11th hour so all costs had to be paid for.

[John B]

It went on paying off managers, engaging with PR companies, and taking EGMs to the 11th hour so all costs had to be paid for.

Not much then

[ALWAYS_SFC]

It went on paying off managers, engaging with PR companies, and taking EGMs to the 11th hour so all costs had to be paid for.

Don`t forget the dividends..

[alpine_saint]

Don`t forget the dividends..

Silly me.

[John B]

Are you serious?

Yes I am deadly serious I never thought we had sufficient funds to invest heavily in new players.


I thought our problem was that no home grown players were coming through so the whole team had to be bought in , instead of having a few players home grown players like we used to have and then buying a couple of reall quality players.

I felt players like Telfer Jacobson McCann and Crainey were not that good

[John B]

Silly me.

How much were the dividends I wonder

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Yes I am deadly serious I never thought we had sufficient funds to invest heavily in new players.


I thought our problem was that no home grown players were coming through so the whole team had to be bought in , instead of having a few players home grown players like we used to have and then buying a couple of reall quality players.

I felt players like Telfer Jacobson McCann and Crainey were not that good

We had all the trappings of Sky money,high season ticket sales, stadium sellouts, corporate boxes being sold,higher level sponsorship..shall i go on?

We could have borrowed a fair bit fo a decemt player or two but no
Mr Lowe only sanctioned enough for players of the quality you mentioned and therefore we went backwards.

[Thedelldays]

We had all the trappings of Sky money,high season ticket sales, stadium sellouts, corporate boxes being sold,higher level sponsorship..shall i go on?

We could have borrowed a fair bit fo a decemt player or two but no
Mr Lowe only sanctioned enough for players of the quality you mentioned and therefore we went backwards.
oh i see...do a leeds/leicester/bradford

[Weston Super Saint]

they did perform.

And we still lost, to a [by most accounts] very under par Birmingham team.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

oh i see...do a leeds/leicester/bradford

I think you no what i mean.

A bit of debt in the premier league with money coming to all clubs and
increasing year on year would be nothing compared to our highly mentioned large debt in the ccc with little money coming back in.

[Wildgoose]

And we still lost, to a [by most accounts] very under par Birmingham team.

Just maybe, and according to those at the match, we caused Brum to underperform for much of the time.....

[Snowballs2]

What mistakes are you talking about

The mistake in kicking out Lowe in the first place.

Or buying second rate players on high wages to please the fans.

Lo9we, Wilde, and Crouch have ALL screwed us up big time. I don't propose to go through Lowes again, they are many and well documented on here already. You know those mistakes as well as I do

[ottery st mary]

I still need to know who started this Surman to Reading lie as they will have my daughter to answer to.

I hope I don't have to start driving to Reading so she can watch him play. Then again I might just put my foot down. But then again I will have to ask the good wife to give me permission first to put my foot down.

[Weston Super Saint]

I still need to know who started this Surman to Reading lie as they will have my daughter to answer to.

I hope I don't have to start driving to Reading so she can watch him play. Then again I might just put my foot down. But then again I will have to ask the good wife to give me permission first to put my foot down.

You'll get there quicker....

[ottery st mary]

You'll get there quicker....

Then again I would not be able to stop and tell my daughter how we built Stonehenge and used the lumps of rock as goals during our lunch hour and stop at Salisbury and try to talk Nick Holmes into a comeback.

Bloody M5 AND M4.

[Weston Super Saint]

Then again I would not be able to stop and tell my daughter how we built Stonehenge and used the lumps of rock as goals during our lunch hour and stop at Salisbury and try to talk Nick Holmes into a comeback.

Bloody M5 AND M4.

You could build these wondrous events into your scheduled 'pit stops'.

[saintkiptanui]

For a third of the match, in one formation only.were you there?

[Chez]

Conversely every other business I have ever worked for that relies on customers for its income, when facing 'bad times', they try to attract more customers, and try to get the existing customers to 'visit' more often, and spend more money to increase revenue / turnover, thus affecting profits......

So can someone please explain to me why the ONLY option available to SFC is to slash its costs and hope for the best???


if you are going bust you lay staff off as soon as possible as they are your biggest costs, besides tell me how we get more fans back to the stadium?

[Wes Tender]

against probably the best team in the league after giving them a lesson in football in the first half, FFS FFS FFS last year we would of lost by 5 or 6.

The usual broad sweeping statement that can have holes picked in it left right and centre. Last season we were the usual Jekyll and Hyde team, beating the best teams and losing against the poor ones. For example, We beat West Brom 3-2, Cardiff 1-0, Hull 4-0, Bristol City 2-0 and Sheffield United 3-2. Of those teams, Hull and West Brom were promoted and Sheffield Utd and Bristol City were very close to the top at the death. The season before, we beat Birmingham 4-3, Wolves 6-0 and West Brom couldn't beat us over either leg.

So there are absolutely no grounds whatsoever for predicting that we would have been hammered by Birmingham last season with the team we had then, even if Birmingham were in the Fizzy Pop league.

[Weston Super Saint]

if you are going bust you lay staff off as soon as possible as they are your biggest costs, besides tell me how we get more fans back to the stadium?

Cheaper tickets?

[Nexstar]

Cheaper tickets?

Hopefully that will happen with the well priced carling cup tickets.

[Weston Super Saint]

Hopefully that will happen with the well priced carling cup tickets.

That's just one game though...

[saintkiptanui]

The usual broad sweeping statement that can have holes picked in it left right and centre. Last season we were the usual Jekyll and Hyde team, beating the best teams and losing against the poor ones. For example, We beat West Brom 3-2, Cardiff 1-0, Hull 4-0, Bristol City 2-0 and Sheffield United 3-2. Of those teams, Hull and West Brom were promoted and Sheffield Utd and Bristol City were very close to the top at the death. The season before, we beat Birmingham 4-3, Wolves 6-0 and West Brom couldn't beat us over either leg.

So there are absolutely no grounds whatsoever for predicting that we would have been hammered by Birmingham last season with the team we had then, even if Birmingham were in the Fizzy Pop league.What a load of balls, I watched a lot of games last season and can't remember us playing well, certainly not in the 2nd half of the season.

[Professor]

Now I dislike Lowe with a passion and have no time for his quisling. However, only an idiot thinks administration is the way forward.
This is true, but there are a few of these who post on here, as we all know! It is mildly amusing to see how rapidly some of them grasp at the most wild rumour to support their rather boring predictions of total disaster. Who will be first to jump off the Itchen Bridge if the rescue plan succeeds and the team have a good season?

[Saint_clark]

If we're planning on using him at LB from now on, i'd rather we sold him - then we might actually get off our arses and sign a proper LB.
He was awful V Birmingham. He is a midfielder, not a f*cking defender. He got outrun 9 times out of 10.

[Charlie Wayman]

If he is disaffected it'll be because he is never allowed to play in his preferred mid-field position. The guy is talented so why are we so determined to extinguish his talent by assigning him a role that he is neither suited to nor enjoys. If he leaves it will be the end of our dreams - think global act local? My RRrse!

[Wes Tender]

What a load of balls, I watched a lot of games last season and can't remember us playing well, certainly not in the 2nd half of the season.

You're obviously suffering from selective memory loss subconsciously in an attempt by your brain to support your argument. Do you remember the match against Norwich, when we played similar football to yesterdays, all over them, scintillating stuff and they won 1-0. Nobody could believe we could play so well and get nothing.

And both our matches against Bristol City and Sheffield Utd were very much at the tail end of the season. Presumably you didn't go to those two matches then.:rolleyes:

[saintkiptanui]

You're obviously suffering from selective memory loss subconsciously in an attempt by your brain to support your argument. Do you remember the match against Norwich, when we played similar football to yesterdays, all over them, scintillating stuff and they won 1-0. Nobody could believe we could play so well and get nothing.

And both our matches against Bristol City and Sheffield Utd were very much at the tail end of the season. Presumably you didn't go to those two matches then.:rolleyes:er yep I did, against sheff .utd it was a must win, wouldn't say we played great football just had more desire than the previous 45 games.

[St_Tel49]

And we still lost, to a [by most accounts] very under par Birmingham team.
And of the course the fact that they were under par had nothing to do with us in any way.

[St_Tel49]

You're obviously suffering from selective memory loss subconsciously in an attempt by your brain to support your argument. Do you remember the match against Norwich, when we played similar football to yesterdays, all over them, scintillating stuff and they won 1-0. Nobody could believe we could play so well and get nothing.

And both our matches against Bristol City and Sheffield Utd were very much at the tail end of the season. Presumably you didn't go to those two matches then.:rolleyes:
So what you are saying is that a much more experienced team on much higher wages played as well as yesterday's young inexperienced team and lost by a similar margin, therefore we are heading for disaster this year?

[Wes Tender]

er yep I did, against sheff .utd it was a must win, wouldn't say we played great football just had more desire than the previous 45 games.

Well, if I give you examples of where your argument is shot full of holes and you won't acknowledge it, then I'll just have to leave it to others to make up their own minds that you're talking rubbish, that is if they agree with my assessment that not all of the matches we played last season were crap.

[saintkiptanui]

Well, if I give you examples of where your argument is shot full of holes and you won't acknowledge it, then I'll just have to leave it to others to make up their own minds that you're talking rubbish, that is if they agree with my assessment that not all of the matches we played last season were crap.We played better yesterday in the 1st half than we did all last season, proper football.

[Wes Tender]

So what you are saying is that a much more experienced team on much higher wages played as well as yesterday's young inexperienced team and lost by a similar margin, therefore we are heading for disaster this year?

No. That is what you are saying.

I was replying to saintkiptanui's assertion that had we somehow played Birmingham last season, (although they were then a Premiership team), they would have put five or six past our team. I'm assuming that he was talking about a hypothetical situation whereby our last season's team played this current Brum team. Please keep up.

[Highfield Saint]

With most businesses the plug would already have been pulled and we would be floating don the river.

That's an interesting perspective. There are or will be thousands of businesses out there which will be scrapping for survival. They do not have the luxury of being able to rely on customers to turn up even though the product is worse than it was a few years ago instead they have to put together a business plan and (what???) invest in this in order to deliver for them as shareholders.

The board are looking to deliver a miracle for themselves by seeking to close the gap between outgoings and income without any investment or commitment. For almost all businesses outside of football this would, as you say, be untenable. Our decline in revenues even for a football club is likley to continue whilst the results do not deliver and surely the selling of our best players is only like to exacerbate the situation.

Part of the difference on Saturday for me was the bench and changes. Brum brought on Campbell, Bent and Philips. We brought on Thompson (who??? - no disrespect)

I went on Sat but havent renewed my season ticket as yet. If the board want me (any perhaps many like me) to renew then they should be clear about how they see the situation and what their strategy is (apart from the short term "balance the books").

[Wes Tender]

We played better yesterday in the 1st half than we did all last season, proper football.

Football is a game of 90 minutes duration. We played brilliant football against Leeds for 45 minutes and were three goals up. We played brilliant football against Tranmere and were three goals up after 45 minutes there too.
As I recall, on both occasions we lost 4-3.

[saintkiptanui]

No. That is what you are saying.

I was replying to saintkiptanui's assertion that had we somehow played Birmingham last season, (although they were then a Premiership team), they would have put five or six past our team. I'm assuming that he was talking about a hypothetical situation whereby our last season's team played this current Brum team. Please keep up.
When did i say we played Birmingham, you've lost me now. Go to bed wesley, I've had enough of this clap trap.

we played well viva le youth.

[Totton Red]

We played better yesterday in the 1st half than we did all last season, proper football.

Must have been a long season for you watching all 46 games....Respect to the top SFC fan!

[Wes Tender]

Originally Posted by saintkiptanui

against probably the best team in the league after giving them a lesson in football in the first half, FFS FFS FFS last year we would of lost by 5 or 6.

I think it is you who should go to bed. I'm off to watch Pompey getting thrashed by Chelski.

It is you who are apparently not able to express yourself well, as I suspect that most would have concluded that you had meant that our team last season would have lost by 5 or 6 playing against this Birmingham team.

[saintkiptanui]

Must have been a long season for you watching all 46 games....Respect to the top SFC fan!
I only saw 20 but I listened to 26 on the radio so like Alpine I know exactly how we played in those games:smt109

[saintkiptanui]

Originally Posted by saintkiptanui


I think it is you who should go to bed. I'm off to watch Pompey getting thrashed by Chelski.

It is you who are apparently not able to express yourself well, as I suspect that most would have concluded that you had meant that our team last season would have lost by 5 or 6 playing against this Birmingham team.most people would of known what i meant but you being a pedantic old woman turned it into something else.

[Totton Red]

I only saw 20 but I listened to 26 on the radio so like Alpine I know exactly how we played in those games:smt109

Two peas in a pod then? Interesting to see that your based the Birmingham performance on radio commentators!

[saintkiptanui]

Two peas in a pod then? Interesting to see that your based the Birmingham performance on radio commentators!what? I went to the game, I was being sarcastic, lighten up.

[Wes Tender]

most people would of known what i meant but you being a pedantic old woman turned it into something else.

Back from Match of the Day and I see that you are still not able to accept that what you said was misleading and now make it worse by claiming that most others would have known what you meant.

So here is what he said:

against probably the best team in the league after giving them a lesson in football in the first half, FFS FFS FFS last year we would of lost by 5 or 6.

Anybody got any clearer idea what he meant? I took it that he was talking about Birmingham. So who do you think that he was talking about that we would have lost to last year? Any takers?

Oh, and by the way, as I'm so pedantic. It isn't we would of lost. It is we would have lost. But I'm sure that everybody realised what you meant to say.

[saintkiptanui]

Back from Match of the Day and I see that you are still not able to accept that what you said was misleading and now make it worse by claiming that most others would have known what you meant.

So here is what he said:

against probably the best team in the league after giving them a lesson in football in the first half, FFS FFS FFS last year we would of lost by 5 or 6.

Anybody got any clearer idea what he meant? I took it that he was talking about Birmingham. So who do you think that he was talking about that we would have lost to last year? Any takers?

Oh, and by the way, as I'm so pedantic. It isn't we would of lost. It is we would have lost. But I'm sure that everybody realised what you meant to say.I can't do this anymore, we're finished.

[benjii]

Back from Match of the Day and I see that you are still not able to accept that what you said was misleading and now make it worse by claiming that most others would have known what you meant.

So here is what he said:

against probably the best team in the league after giving them a lesson in football in the first half, FFS FFS FFS last year we would of lost by 5 or 6.

Anybody got any clearer idea what he meant? I took it that he was talking about Birmingham. So who do you think that he was talking about that we would have lost to last year? Any takers?

Oh, and by the way, as I'm so pedantic. It isn't we would of lost. It is we would have lost. But I'm sure that everybody realised what you meant to say.

*YAWN*

Either way it has nothing to do with Surman going to Reading so why don't you both wind it in?

As for the thread subject itself....

If we could get a good price for Drew (£2.5m ish - likely?) then this wouldn't actually be the worst thing in the world IMO.

Players like Kelvin, Stern and Svensson (and Andrew Davies, but I think we can forget that) are much more important.

[saintkiptanui]

*YAWN*

Either way it has nothing to do with Surman going to Reading so why don't you both wind it in?

As for the thread subject itself....

If we could get a good price for Drew (£2.5m ish - likely?) then this wouldn't actually be the worst thing in the world IMO.

Players like Kelvin, Stern and Svensson (and Andrew Davies, but I think we can forget that) are much more important.
YAWN

I said the same thing about 2038 posts back.

[scooby]

Selling a good player like Davies for a paltry 1.5 M is typical for Lowe. Has he got any contingency plan if Killer's knee packs up? Nope, didn't think so.

The man is a slash and burn merchant,

Actually, no. It's a good bit of business by Lowe. 50% profit on a player that we can well do without? I tip my hat to him on this one.

[Saint_clark]

Actually, no. It's a good bit of business by Lowe. 50% profit on a player that we can well do without? I tip my hat to him on this one.

:D You post some of the funniest, most ridiculous horse sh*te I have ever read.

[scooby]

:D You post some of the funniest, most ridiculous horse sh*te I have ever read.

Deny that a 50% profit on an asset is not a good bit of business, and take into account that we are a hair's breadth away from administration thanks to Crouch's reign of terror.

[Torrent Of Abuse]

Deny that a 50% profit on an asset is not a good bit of business, and take into account that we are a hair's breadth away from administration thanks to Crouch's reign of terror.
There's no point selling your home for 50% more than you bought it if it just means you end up sleeping on the street. Similarly, there is little point selling your best players for a profit today if it means you get relegated tomorrow.

That is slippery soap bar of knowledge which you were ham-fistedly scrambling around trying to grasp while you get repeatedly pummelled from behind in the prison shower block of ignorance.

[alpine_saint]

There's no point selling your home for 50% more than you bought it if it just means you end up sleeping on the street. Similarly, there is little point selling your best players for a profit today if it means you get relegated tomorrow.

That is slippery soap bar of knowledge which you were ham-fistedly scrambling around trying to grasp while you get repeatedly pummelled from behind in the prison shower block of ignorance.

LOL. Post of the day, and its not even 8:00am.

[Wes Tender]

Deny that a 50% profit on an asset is not a good bit of business, and take into account that we are a hair's breadth away from administration thanks to Crouch's reign of terror.

A reign of terror is Pol Pot in Cambodia, Hussein in Iraq, Hitler.

I don't recall anybody dying during Crouch's term in charge and if you were terrified by him, Scabby, then it is long overdue that you were locked away somewhere safe and given counselling.

[OldNick]

There's no point selling your home for 50% more than you bought it if it just means you end up sleeping on the street. Similarly, there is little point selling your best players for a profit today if it means you get relegated tomorrow.

That is slippery soap bar of knowledge which you were ham-fistedly scrambling around trying to grasp while you get repeatedly pummelled from behind in the prison shower block of ignorance.some sense in what you say but it is not the post of the day. In your analogy you keep your car instead of selling it and lose your house a lot quicker because you failed to pay the mortgage.

[Wilf]

That is slippery soap bar of knowledge which you were ham-fistedly scrambling around trying to grasp while you get repeatedly pummelled from behind in the prison shower block of ignorance.

Pure poetry!

Do you mind if I borrow that to use elsewhere?

[miserableoldgit]

Deny that a 50% profit on an asset is not a good bit of business, and take into account that we are a hair's breadth away from administration thanks to Crouch's reign of terror.
Do you know, with your vast knowledge of the workings of SFC ,whether there is a "sell on" clause that may mean that we have to pay Middlesborough part of that "50%" profit?

[scooby]

\Similarly, there is little point selling your best players for a profit today if it means you get relegated tomorrow.
.

Actually, there is.

Relegation > Administration and relegation

[aintforever]

Actually, there is.

Relegation > Administration and relegation

Relegation would mean administration regardless of wether we sell Surman now or not.

If we sell Surman and Davies it would be basically cutting our own throat, completely pointless. We would be way better of keeping the level of debt and hoping we stay up - at least then we have a chance.

[mitch01]

Actually, no. It's a good bit of business by Lowe. 50% profit on a player that we can well do without? I tip my hat to him on this one.

Its an appalling bit of business considering:

a) He's our best player
b) We desperately need him as we are short of quality at the back, and Killer may still break down.
c) We could get so much more than 1.5million for him.

[saintrich]

Its an appalling bit of business considering:

a) He's our best player
b) We desperately need him as we are short of quality at the back, and Killer may still break down.
c) We could get so much more than 1.5million for him.


This is the Surman thread, not the Davies one ;)

[John B]

Its an appalling bit of business considering:

a) He's our best player
b) We desperately need him as we are short of quality at the back, and Killer may still break down.
c) We could get so much more than 1.5million for him.

We only paid a million for him surely his value has not gone up that much

[OldNick]

Its an appalling bit of business considering:

a) He's our best player
b) We desperately need him as we are short of quality at the back, and Killer may still break down.
c) We could get so much more than 1.5million for him.This is the Drew thread but as much as I like him we have not had a host of clubs after him and we still dont know his overall fitness.If he gets through the medical when Jan has said he is still injured it will be a surprise.

[sotonist]

There's no point selling your home for 50% more than you bought it if it just means you end up sleeping on the street. Similarly, there is little point selling your best players for a profit today if it means you get relegated tomorrow.

to expand on the idea. yay my house went up in value by 50%. wait a minute, so did everyone elses. and now i'm in a higher stamp duty bracket.

[Chez]

Deny that a 50% profit on an asset is not a good bit of business, and take into account that we are a hair's breadth away from administration thanks to Crouch's reign of terror.

He is being undersold. That sir is not good business.

[Chez]

Relegation would mean administration regardless of wether we sell Surman now or not.


why? If the league 1 squad is on peanuts and the lower income could cover the lower wages and the same cost of our debt, then why would we go into administration?

[LGTL]

Surman is an awful left back, McFadden murdered him all game Saturday. If JP is only going to play him there, he had might aswell leave for a decent fee.

[mitch01]

Surman is an awful left back, McFadden murdered him all game Saturday. If JP is only going to play him there, he had might aswell leave for a decent fee.

I agree, anything over 2million would be good for us from Surman, hes far from a great left back based on saturdays performance.

[slickmick]

Seems we can't get rid of Skacel so instead we will off load Surman, if we get 2.5 million that is a lot of money for a half decent player who most think isn't a left back but thats where he will be played this season so we are getting a lot of cash for an average left back, I'd snap there hand off and bring Skacel back in.


2.5m will only keep us going until New Year. Then we will still have to offload Skacel and Euell, other wise another youngster with any value will have to be sold.
Had Skacel agreed terms with Ipswich our position would have been a bit less desperate. Instead he would rather rot in the reserves and watch the club sink.
Can you imagine the frustration Lowe must have, working with the man who dealt out these ridiculous contracts.

[scooby]

.
Can you imagine the frustration Lowe must have, working with the man who dealt out these ridiculous contracts.

Agreed that Lowe is in a practically untenable position. The previous administration tied this club to a host of dross on ridiculous terms.

[alpine_saint]

Can you imagine the frustration Lowe must have, working with the man who dealt out these ridiculous contracts.

Probably something similar to what Crouch and Wilde experienced working with a useless disinterested manager - appointed by Lowe and given millions to spend - for most of last season....

[Matthew Le God]

McFadden murdered him all game Saturday.

there are not many £6m internationals at this level

[Chris Medway]

Back from Match of the Day and I see that you are still not able to accept that what you said was misleading and now make it worse by claiming that most others would have known what you meant.

So here is what he said:

against probably the best team in the league after giving them a lesson in football in the first half, FFS FFS FFS last year we would of lost by 5 or 6.

Anybody got any clearer idea what he meant? I took it that he was talking about Birmingham. So who do you think that he was talking about that we would have lost to last year? Any takers?

Oh, and by the way, as I'm so pedantic. It isn't we would of lost. It is we would have lost. But I'm sure that everybody realised what you meant to say.


Yep I can see exactly what he means! And yep you are being pedantic. I guess he was talking about the best team in the league last season - it ain't rocket science!

[slickmick]

Probably something similar to what Crouch and Wilde experienced working with a useless disinterested manager - appointed by Lowe and given millions to spend - for most of last season....

Don't think Lowe was here when Burley was spunking £7m. Would he have agreed to spending that much, plus the contracts issue.
Guilty of hiring Burley I admit. But I recall he was the fans choice when we first appointed him. So he was not the only one who was fooled.

[slickmick]

Yep I can see exactly what he means! And yep you are being pedantic. I guess he was talking about the best team in the league last season - it ain't rocket science!


I think most people can see what he meant except Wes.

[Matthew Le God]

Don't think Lowe was here when Burley was spunking £7m. Would he have agreed to spending that much, plus the contracts issue.
Guilty of hiring Burley I admit. But I recall he was the fans choice when we first appointed him. So he was not the only one who was fooled.

we did get to the playoff semi final the season Burley spent 7m ;)

[Whitey Grandad]

The previous administration tied this club to a host of dross on ridiculous terms.

Lowe was part of a previous administration.

[SuperMikey]

I'd be gutted to see Surman go, but if he is going i'd want at least £2m and Liam Rosenior.

[Bearsy]

Thank you all for your input, however I have chosen to believe that Surman will stay.

You may now consider the matter closed. Move along.

[alpine_saint]

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/article.php?page_id=10461

The change-in-tone is astounding. Makes it sound like they are coming back from injury...

Looks like "total football" is dying at birth on the South Coast...

[toofarnorth]

Bennet is still at reading (on loan at Brentford) and would be a welcome addition as part of the deal. Just a thought.

[derry]

Released by Reading, I believe now at Brentford permanently.

[ottery st mary]

Yes with contract I believe.

[Bearsy]

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/article.php?page_id=10461

The change-in-tone is astounding. Makes it sound like they are coming back from injury...

Looks like "total football" is dying at birth on the South Coast...

Actually, by OS standards that article is refreshingly devoid of spin.

Bordering on factual, FFS.

Lowe out, Lowe In, Lowe out, Lowe in ad nauseam...

[St Louis]

I have never once claimed to be an ITK'er on this site, but just thought I would share it that unless something drastic happens that causes the deal to collapse, then Surman will be a Reading player this month! I have this on VERY good authority!

Obviously any deal can fall through, but this one is at 99% at the moment! :(

[Master Bates]

His Aunty says he's staying, true story

[hypochondriac]

I have never once claimed to be an ITK'er on this site, but just thought I would share it that unless something drastic happens that causes the deal to collapse, then Surman will be a Reading player this month! I have this on VERY good authority!

Obviously any deal can fall through, but this one is at 99% at the moment! :(

Which would mean that the club have told him to leave and I will seriously be considering whether to bother anymore.

[saintkiptanui]

Which would mean that the club have told him to leave and I will seriously be considering whether to bother anymore.
drama queen.

[saintkiptanui]

oh noes we're going to lose an average left back for loads of money which will help keep the club afloat, sounds like a good idea to me.

[ottery st mary]

We all know he loves the club but he may be told he has to go because of the finances.
I believe the ball is already in motion and there is no doubt that Reading are already dealing but Stoke may come in with a better offer for Davies and Surman and like many others will be GUTTED.

[Whitey Grandad]

Out of interest, does anybody have this year's calendar? It's usually a guaranteed guide to who is leaving and when.

[ottery st mary]

Out of interest, does anybody have this year's calendar? It's usually a guaranteed guide to who is leaving and when.

Just looked at it and there is no one left.

[hypochondriac]

We all know he loves the club but he may be told he has to go because of the finances.
I believe the ball is already in motion and there is no doubt that Reading are already dealing but Stoke may come in with a better offer for Davies and Surman and like many others will be GUTTED.

Surman doesn't want to move too far from Southampton because his girlfriend is training to be a nurse I believe.

[Weston Saint]

Look, it is as simple as this. If Saints come to him and say they have had an acceptable bid and need to sell him he will go but will be very sad.

[saint lard]

£2.5 million is the touted offer from Reading,according to Meridian.

[Toadhall Saint]

Look, it is as simple as this. If Saints come to him and say they have had an acceptable bid and need to sell him he will go but will be very sad.

So will I TBH. Better grim reality than grim reaper I suppose. Bloody hurts though!

[madruss]

£2.5 million is the touted offer from Reading,according to Meridian.

Much as I hope he stays - if £2.5 million meant we could sign a specialist left-back, I'd bite their hands off!

[ottery st mary]

Much as I hope he stays - if £2.5 million meant we could sign a specialist left-back, I'd bite their hands off!

Mills is your man.

[saintjinksie]

against probably the best team in the league after giving them a lesson in football in the first half, FFS FFS FFS last year we would of lost by 5 or 6.

u r deluded if u think we have improved, we beat WBA at roughly the same time last year. Wake up and smell the coffee, we are turd.

[forever a red and white]

if we lose surman that would top it for me.

its bad enough losing davies.

surman has potential, and with the empahisi on the young etc etc.

we need players who are coomtied to this club and a player like surman.

cannot believe just how far down we are going

[Saints foreva]

Surman is the most overrated player ever.

No pace what so ever and can't play at left back.

[Professor]

if the Surman story is just that, a story manufactured by the press, of which there are hundreds every year, will those who immediately made comments as if it were true, agree not to post on here for at least a month? You know who you are.............

[alpine_saint]

if the Surman story is just that, a story manufactured by the press, of which there are hundreds every year, will those who immediately made comments as if it were true, agree not to post on here for at least a month? You know who you are.............

Why should we ?

I got a load of abuse from SOG on another site about how dare I assume the Davies gossip is correct.

Why is it difficult to understand that the responses are based on the assumption a story is true, and are therefore invalid if it is not ?

I'd like to know how even you can deny that this story does fit with the trend at SFC at the moment.

[Master Bates]

Look, it is as simple as this. If Saints come to him and say they have had an acceptable bid and need to sell him he will go but will be very sad.

I believe this has happened :(

[scooby]

Surman is the most overrated player ever.

No pace what so ever and can't play at left back.

Agreed. It would be a nice bit of business by Lowe if we got a few million for him.

[Master Bates]

Surman doesn't want to move too far from Southampton because his girlfriend is training to be a nurse I believe.

His girlfriend is expecting a wee baby. Reading is only an hour drive so doesn't need to move.

[jam]

Mills is your man.

No he aint.

[Hacienda]

I'm a totally gormless mong who really hasn't a clue but get my kicks pretending that I worship Lowe's rectum.

I've corrected it for you.

[alpine_saint]

i've corrected it for you.

lololololol

[Professor]

Why should we ?

I got a load of abuse from SOG on another site about how dare I assume the Davies gossip is correct. Why is it difficult to understand that the responses are based on the assumption a story is true, and are therefore invalid if it is not ?
I'd like to know how even you can deny that this story does fit with the trend at SFC at the moment.
Problem is that some people assume that every rumour that is to the club's discredit is true, and claim that everything to its credit is 'spin'. I have no idea whether the story is true or not, and apart from the people involved, no one else does either but some people immediately overreact as if they want it to be true, so that they can have something else to complain about. I really don't understand why people spend hours on a football club forum just to slag off the club concerned.

As for the football story, I would be more sorry to see Surman go if he was still first choice at LMF, but as a left back, I think we could do better. I accept that leaves open the question of how he would be replaced. I would like to see a specialist LB brought in and if that did not happen, I would be disappointed. The club is not just in selling mode, as the signings of Forecast, Perry, Schneiderlin and Wooton have confirmed, so the answer to the question is, no this story is not in line with a trend at the club and a signing cannot be ruled out.

[scotty]

Some won't go because of money. Some won't go because of last seasons cr@p football. Some won't go because of Lowe.

SFC is haemorrhaging fans at the same rate as players.


and some wont go because they lost their corner seats.

[Master Bates]

Some won't go because they are in a land far far away, with flowers, bright green grass, rabbits jumping about in colonies and a rainbow smiling, like icing on a christmas cake waiting to be eaten, tasting like fruit brandy.

[magie]

Surman got too big for his boots once England came knocking. Rupes is to blame for all this which is why the Brum game had a low attendance - (sad really but the joke is on Rupes and his cronies)......

[Weston Saint]

Surman got too big for his boots once England came knocking. Rupes is to blame for all this which is why the Brum game had a low attendance - (sad really but the joke is on Rupes and his cronies)......

What a load of rubbish. You do not know him, you do not understand him, you do not understand his families values or you would not have made such a rediculous statement.

[saintrich]

Some pis*ed up woman walked past me on Saturday and decided to tell me she knew Surman and he wasn't going.

Probably off then! :P

[dubai_phil]

Some won't go because they are in a land far far away, with flowers, bright green grass, rabbits jumping about in colonies and a rainbow smiling, like icing on a christmas cake waiting to be eaten, tasting like fruit brandy.

Sorry that is rubbish.

You missed out the 2,500 24-28 year old single air hostesses and the Bullfrogs

Almost as many air hostesses as posts per day of doom and gloom. Know which I'd rather wade through

[ottery st mary]

Problem is that some people assume that every rumour that is to the club's discredit is true, and claim that everything to its credit is 'spin'. I have no idea whether the story is true or not, and apart from the people involved, no one else does either but some people immediately overreact as if they want it to be true, so that they can have something else to complain about. I really don't understand why people spend hours on a football club forum just to slag off the club concerned.

As for the football story, I would be more sorry to see Surman go if he was still first choice at LMF, but as a left back, I think we could do better. I accept that leaves open the question of how he would be replaced. I would like to see a specialist LB brought in and if that did not happen, I would be disappointed. The club is not just in selling mode, as the signings of Forecast, Perry, Schneiderlin and Wooton have confirmed, so the answer to the question is, no this story is not in line with a trend at the club and a signing cannot be ruled out.

Not sure what your saying Proff or with your previous post on this one.
The press get to hear about Reading interest from say an agent for example after discussions have taken place and report same. Posters hear about it and post their opinions and feelings.
Is he going or not? I am sure we will know very soon. Personally I don't think he would make this decision very lightly and most of us would not want to see him go. By the way the press rumours make it more fun for us gossip posters and therefore please give us a bit of slack as yours is not always the best opinion on any matter, whether or not true.

[ottery st mary]

Some pis*ed up woman walked past me on Saturday and decided to tell me she knew Surman and he wasn't going.

Probably off then! :P

I think that was the NOTW reporter.

[hypochondriac]

His girlfriend is expecting a wee baby. Reading is only an hour drive so doesn't need to move.

I was really referring to the stoke bit. I didn't realise Laura was pregnant, will send my congrats.

[hypochondriac]

What a load of rubbish. You do not know him, you do not understand him, you do not understand his families values or you would not have made such a rediculous statement.

I nicer guy you couldn't wish to meet.

[cambsaint]

[QUOTE=.[/What they what to hear is that most of the £8.5m raised from the sale of David Kitson to Stoke and Nicky Shorey to Aston Villa will be reinvested in the transfer market.

It isn't going to happen.

Reading received a parachute payment of £11m but Madejski reckons relegation from the Premier League cost his club £22m. What's more, he has made it clear that plenty of funds have been used in extensive "remedial work" on the stadium. Add to that the large squad of players at the club and reduced season ticket sales of 14,000 and the owner has a strong case for suggesting that the club need to "cut our coat according to our cloth."

I've been told that the staff at the club took a substantial pay cut as a consequence of relegation, while the cash raised from the sale of players will be used to underpin the deficit incurred as a result of Reading dropping out of the Premier League.

I think there is a lot to admire in a chairman running his club with a very definite eye on the bottom line. Football is littered with tales of boom and bust, ridiculous overspending and chronic mismanagement. Fans want to hear about exciting new arrivals, though surely not as much as they don't want to hear about their club entering administration.=.[/QUOTE]

If you read Paul Fletcher's blog on BBC Sport part of which I have quoted above then any large spending on a highly paid Surman by Reading looks unlikely.


Cambsaint

[Luxemburg89]

If you saw him with the fans yesterday he certainly didn't look like he was going anywhere, if he is then it's so cruel on the kids that queued for about 40 mins to have their photo taken with him, he will stay.

[Chez]

If you read Paul Fletcher's blog on BBC Sport part of which I have quoted above then any large spending on a highly paid Surman by Reading looks unlikely.


Cambsaint

They have sold Kitson and Shorey and Harper will go as well. Money will be available for Surman if Coppell decides he is the left back they need.

[suspect everyone]

Out of interest, does anybody have this year's calendar? It's usually a guaranteed guide to who is leaving and when.

Don't know why I bother getting a Saints calendar each year. By mid-summer your wall is guaranteed to be adorned by players who no longer play for the club. August’s players are Makin and Safri, brilliant.

[OldNick]

Don't know why I bother getting a Saints calendar each year. By mid-summer your wall is guaranteed to be adorned by players who no longer play for the club. August’s players are Makin and Safri, brilliant.Soon the kids will be so young in the calendar you wont be able to display without being accused of being a peado.

[ottery st mary]

Soon the kids will be so young in the calendar you wont be able to display without being accused of being a peado.

Suggest you get a picture of new players and stick over old player.
ie Pulis over top of Makin.

PS Makin is a better player even if played in mid-field.

[saint lard]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/display.var.2430871.0.jan_confident_surman_will_st ay.php

[Master Bates]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/display.var.2430871.0.jan_confident_surman_will_st ay.php


The Royals were expected to make a £2.5m swoop for the 21-year-old but it appears the move was part of a chain of transfers which has collapsed.

Is Davis to Stoke one that's collapsed too?

[saint lard]

Is Davis to Stoke one that's collapsed too?

Quite possibly,but i suspect that Reading may have had to off load someone first,IMO.

[Long Shot]

So if JP wants to keep him and Surman wants to stay how come a 2.5m deal was arranged. Doesn't make sense or does it?

[saint lard]

So if JP wants to keep him and Surman wants to stay how come a 2.5m deal was arranged. Doesn't make sense or does it?

Two word answer possibly" Lowe,Bank ?" IMO.