The Echo on Surman, Davies & Pulis

[Master Bates]

http://www.thisishampshire.net/sport/saints/display.var.2427446.0.saints_may_cash_in_on_young_ stars.php

[N/West Saint]

Dear oh dear.

Svensson will not last a full season or Perry come to think about it

[alpine_saint]

We're well-and-truly fuuucked.

[thefuriousb]

We're well-and-truly fuuucked.

The statement from the club a few weeks back advising that latest losses would be c£17m before player trading told you that.

Did that bit of news go in one ear and straight out the other side?

No one is happy about this situation. However, I sense you like to be melodramatic about it all.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

It's total sh1te but what can we do about it ? The bank are demanding their money back and we're caught between a rock and a hard place . The Failure to achieve decent transfer fees for Rasiak , Skacel , Saganowski ...etc is screwing this club to the wall .

Don't understand why we're interested in this Pulis lad , he's 24 yet has made no impact on the game whatsoever . We need replacement quality defenders ( CB or FB ) not more questionable midfielders surly :confused:

[INFLUENCED.COM]

4m in under 2 weeks, thats a big ask based on what we have to sell, or moreover the demand for our product.

[adriansfc]

Why are there still comments suggesting this is all Lowe's choice? Or anyone at the club's choice for that matter?

Are fans that far removed from reality now?

Why do they need to ask - what if svensson gets injured, who will play left back..and so on?

It's irrelevent. We're not selling because we think we can cope, or do better without them. We're selling because we absolutely have to raise money. If you want to have any chance of keeping them, I suggest you give Saints a few million quid.

Just to cap it off, we get the most moronic fans suggesting boycotts etc. if certain players are sold. ie. necessary action met by detrimental moaning and a worsening of the situation. Brilliant. The club has to be sustainable, but that is largely dictated by crowd size anyway. If we get poor crowds because we're not doing that well, then I don't see how we can expect more. A big crowd behind their team no matter what will have far more chance of being rewarded.

[Saint Martini]

If reading want a leftback they're better off buying Skacel in my opinion.... Besides that 4 million does seem like a lot but that number seems to have been put together but adding the rumoured price for Davies and Surman (1.5 + 2.5 = 4, so that must be what they need). The problem is that beggars can't be choosers, if we can't get rid of Skacel then we have a surplus leftback/leftmidfielder, if we can then get a decent price for Surman then selling him is something we have to do.

[Toomer]

The Bank is holding the ace card and if they tell Lowe that they want x amount of money by the end of August he has to let players go. As much as I don't like the man he has not got a lot of choice in the matter unless he can stump up the money himself.

[AlfredKo]

If reading want a leftback they're better off buying Skacel in my opinion.... Besides that 4 million does seem like a lot but that number seems to have been put together but adding the rumoured price for Davies and Surman (1.5 + 2.5 = 4, so that must be what they need). The problem is that beggars can't be choosers, if we can't get rid of Skacel then we have a surplus leftback/leftmidfielder, if we can then get a decent price for Surman then selling him is something we have to do.

I think Skacel is a better player, if we call sell Davies and Surman then we can stop selling our players that is never the end of the world. If we can keep Euell, Skacel and Saganowski then we still have lots of hope for this season given the players are motivated.

[saintwarwick]

The Bank is holding the ace card and if they tell Lowe that they want x amount of money by the end of August he has to let players go. As much as I don't like the man he has not got a lot of choice in the matter unless he can stump up the money himself.

This is absolutely true but several posters still believe that this is all down to Lowe. If they really took their hatred away and looked at the bigger picture they will realise we have no choice but to sell whoever is worth money to keep the bank happy.

[stanthemanfairoak]

The Bank is holding the ace card and if they tell Lowe that they want x amount of money by the end of August he has to let players go. As much as I don't like the man he has not got a lot of choice in the matter unless he can stump up the money himself.toomer me boy your dead right, the partys over.

[alpine_saint]

As much as I don't like the man he has not got a lot of choice in the matter unless he can stump up the money himself.

Do be serious mate. Protecting your investment is all about take, take, take in his book, rather than actually put some money in.

How about he work for nothing for 6 months, seeing as he expects the team to play for nothing.

[saintwarwick]

I think Skacel is a better player, if we call sell Davies and Surman then we can stop selling our players that is never the end of the world. If we can keep Euell, Skacel and Saganowski then we still have lots of hope for this season given the players are motivated.

He has gone out on loan to some Danish club.

[saintwarwick]

The Bank is holding the ace card and if they tell Lowe that they want x amount of money by the end of August he has to let players go. As much as I don't like the man he has not got a lot of choice in the matter unless he can stump up the money himself.


Do be serious mate. Protecting your investment is all about take, take, take in his book, rather than actually put some money in.

How about he work for nothing for 6 months, seeing as he expects the team to play for nothing.

Typical of alpine to miss the first part of someones (Toomer) post to argue their cause. How about reacting to the highlighted part of the original post, something you consistently ignore on all threads.

[Crab Lungs]

Can't wait for the arrival of Pulis' son. :-S

http://www.clubfanzine.com/stoke_city/v2.showNews.php?id=3410

[Toomer]

toomer me boy your dead right, the partys over.

The party was on its last knockings 2003/04 with the lack of investment when we were on a high.

[Legod Second Coming]

How about the 15k fans who thought it was appropriate to come and watch us beat survival, come back and SUPPORT the team that is now predominantly made up of OUR YOUTH. That might help raise some of the £4m needed...

[Master Bates]

Can't wait for the arrival of Pulis' son. :-S

http://www.clubfanzine.com/stoke_city/v2.showNews.php?id=3410

Ah balls!!!

[Toomer]

Can't wait for the arrival of Pulis' son. :-S

http://www.clubfanzine.com/stoke_city/v2.showNews.php?id=3410
They don't rate him then.:)

[Wes Tender]

From what I've read about Pulis' kid, we must be total mugs if we are taking him as a makeweight in any deal, especially when he is not only not as good as what we already have, but considerably worse. Here is a player who if he came on, would actually weaken the team. Stoke must be laughing their heads off that they could offload this cruddy player onto some idiot Club so desperate for lolly that they might have to accept him in order to get the money for Davies. If we ever have to play him because we are so short of cover that there is no alternative, that will be the time that we have scraped the bottom of the barrel and might as well give up all hope.

[OldNick]

Do be serious mate. Protecting your investment is all about take, take, take in his book, rather than actually put some money in.

How about he work for nothing for 6 months, seeing as he expects the team to play for nothing.Talk about a hypocrite. You want others to put in but shy away from doing so yourself.
The chairman and all the staff receive their salaries for work done.It strikes me you are just an envious person.
Keep banging your drum, you cant understand the basics of being up s### creek without a paddle.

[Granadino]

If we are so deep in the financial mire, and in such desperate need to get players off the wage bill, why are we bothering to get a really poor player like Pulis in as part of the deal? How does that make any financial sense? Surely we should be asking for anything we can extra in cash on the deal (even if it is only 50k) and avoiding having what will undoubtedly end up as more "dead wood" on the books. It's hardly like we are desperate for a defensive CM with the number of players we've got who can play there - Spiderman, Gillet, Wotton, Euell.

[LostBoys]

As I understand it from the reports of the Forum held recently both Davies and Surman were firmly part of Poortvliet's plans. Now clear they are not and the self/club effacing statement Poortvliet was forced into over the weekend will not fool anyone as it is clear his 'agreed' squad is being sold from underneath him. Still this has happened before with previous managers - the sale of Bridge without Strachan's knowledge. Surely he must have been aware that any 'agreements' regarding players were not going to be honoured by a man only interested in retaining his share value.

Without investment it is very difficult to predict anything now but eventual administration as we will be bottom after the Derby game or shortly thereafter, crowds will fall to around 10,000 or less comprising the die-hards only (like me) and away fans. From a fan viewpoint this is a tough further series of events to have to endure to get rid of all the characters who have been masquerading as directors having any idea of how to run a football club and hold the position only by virtue of worthless retirement homes.

I have supported the club and I do not deserve this. However I travel around the country for my business and what really hurts is explaining to genuinely interested people how you can be in the Premiership and Cup Final one minute and then bust the next. You have to work very hard at being useless to achieve the position we are in.

[rooney]

The truth is probably somewhere betwwen RL & MW wishing to protect their stake in the business and the bank saying "ok, but continued support will mean selling assets". The Bank will not stipulate who they sell as otherwise would become "interested directors" under the terms of the Companies Act and thus illegal.

It seems to me that as nobody wishes to buy Kelvin Davies, Euell and Skajel we are forced to sell others who can raise reasonable sums, not by design but simply circumstances. That is the fact of the case surely? We can all help in a small way by ensuring that the 18K fans who were their on Saturday each bring and ex-supporter back to SMS for the rest of the season.

[labibs]

The only possible reason I can see for taking Pulis is that it will allow Wotton or Schneiderlin to play as a centre back, if cover is needed.

If they do both go, it will be a big blow to the team, particularly with rumours of Killer feeling his knee. However if (and obviously no-one really knows) the bank have set an amount that we need to raise by the end of August, it would seem we have no choice.

With regards to Davies, it pretty much seems that he wants to go back to the prem and frankly who can blame him? Jan seems big on player loyalty and team spirit, happy to drop / get rid of players who will hurt the team so he may not want Davies there anyway if he's not focused on playing for Southampton.

We are screwed financially, we just need to batten down the hatches, make the necessary cuts and get behind the team that is left on the pitch after the end of August. I fully expect us to lose away at Derby (they haven't won a league game in a year, so you just know we will be the ones to set them on their way) and probably be bottom of the table. The Blackpool game at home will be absolutely massive.

[alpine_saint]

As I understand it from the reports of the Forum held recently both Davies and Surman were firmly part of Poortvliet's plans. Now clear they are not and the self/club effacing statement Poortvliet was forced into over the weekend will not fool anyone as it is clear his 'agreed' squad is being sold from underneath him. Still this has happened before with previous managers - the sale of Bridge without Strachan's knowledge. Surely he must have been aware that any 'agreements' regarding players were not going to be honoured by a man only interested in retaining his share value.



Yep, its crystal clear that Lowe's vision of "building for the future" and "putting the club on a sound financial basis with prudent planning" has gone completely, utterly and irredemably tittus-verticus within 3 months of taking over and within 2 weeks of the season starting.

The players being offloaded are now the young ones which we were supposed to be basing our entire strategy on.

This clown is going to screw this club up once-and-for-all this time.

The boat is sinking and the bailing out bucket has got a whopping hole in it.

[JustMike]

time for this so called investment to stop ****ing about and do something NOW, before its too late, if its not already.

[alpine_saint]

time for this so called investment to stop ****ing about and do something NOW, before its too late, if its not already.

This investment rumour is now our only hope to avoid administration and relegation this season, I reckon.

[JustMike]

This investment rumour is now our only hope to avoid administration and relegation this season, I reckon.

yes i 100% agree, without it we are shafted

[OldNick]

So Saints fans are now down on a player they havent seen but take notice of a load of goons on a football forum.
Imagine how rival teams would get reports from here on a load of players.
You cant take notice of them until you yourselves have seen the player.I agreee with the sentiments that he doesnt inspire but I doubt he is costing anything Pulis is trying to get his son to a new surrounding where he will not be seen as 'only plays because of his father'

[SaintRichmond]

4m in under 2 weeks, thats a big ask based on what we have to sell, or moreover the demand for our product.



It's a bit like beeing in a boat with a leak ......... you are continually baling out to stop it sinking ........ but overall GETTING ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE

And that is what Saints are doing .. Getting Absolutely Nowheres

All that Mr Lowe is doing is a "Del Boy" ... SEL SELL SELL

THAT Strategy will NOT solve our overall problem, which is, in short, being continually very close to going into ADMINISTRATION

Ther will be a limit to how much Meat Lowe can sell per month, just to make Barclays happy, but that is NOT going to do anything to the Football Team

Only two matches in I know, but , to many, the writing is already on the wall.

Yes, we play Pretty, Pretty Football ... but it is NOT a recipe for success in the CCC. A few more defeats, and you will soon see the Confidence drain from our very very good youngsters

And, even Poortvliet cannot now be happy knowing that from one week to the next, he may lose another of his young guns to the Barclays Debt

Prior to Lowe and Quisling Wilde coming back, I personally was opting for Administration, to allow us to get rid of all the "cancer" that is STILL holding the Club back .... Nothing ha shappened to change my mind on that fact

For those that say Admin is not an option I say this. I would rather have the points deducted now, and start afresh, than see, through the course of the season, MY TEAM slowly disintegrating before my eyes, as they slide down into Division ! ..... WAKE UP Folks !!! because that is very very possible

Without a "fresh start" we have no hope of any Investment being ALLOWED into what should be, a BIG Club

Lowe & Wilde did NOT come back for SAINTS Football, they came back for thier own ends

ANY ADMINISTRATOR would be doing what Lowe is doing, but, if it were an Administrator doing it, it would be on a clean slate, not with all the Parasites still associated with SFC

We have nothing else to lose, but, Long Term, everything to gain

[alpine_saint]

ANY ADMINISTRATOR would be doing what Lowe is doing, but, if it were an Administrator doing it, it would be on a clean slate, not with all the Parasites still associated with SFC



Yep, 100% agree. And we might even be bought with a couple of decent players still at the club.

F**k the points, this season is a busted flush already.

[JustMike]

So Saints fans are now down on a player they havent seen but take notice of a load of goons on a football forum.
Imagine how rival teams would get reports from here on a load of players.
You cant take notice of them until you yourselves have seen the player.I agreee with the sentiments that he doesnt inspire but I doubt he is costing anything Pulis is trying to get his son to a new surrounding where he will not be seen as 'only plays because of his father'

to be fair i dont think that people (some) on here meant that about Pulis. We are short of fullback and strikers so why on earth do we want another midfielder? We may as well just demand a higher fee for Davies and not take Pulis at all.

[OldNick]

It's a bit like beeing in a boat with a leak ......... you are continually baling out to stop it sinking ........ but overall GETTING ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE

And that is what Saints are doing .. Getting Absolutely Nowheres

All that Mr Lowe is doing is a "Del Boy" ... SEL SELL SELL

THAT Strategy will NOT solve our overall problem, which is, in short, being continually very close to going into ADMINISTRATION

Ther will be a limit to how much Meat Lowe can sell per month, just to make Barclays happy, but that is NOT going to do anything to the Football Team

Only two matches in I know, but , to many, the writing is already on the wall.

Yes, we play Pretty, Pretty Football ... but it is NOT a recipe for success in the CCC. A few more defeats, and you will soon see the Confidence drain from our very very good youngsters

And, even Poortvliet cannot now be happy knowing that from one week to the next, he may lose another of his young guns to the Barclays Debt

Prior to Lowe and Quisling Wilde coming back, I personally was opting for Administration, to allow us to get rid of all the "cancer" that is STILL holding the Club back .... Nothing ha shappened to change my mind on that fact

For those that say Admin is not an option I say this. I would rather have the points deducted now, and start afresh, than see, through the course of the season, MY TEAM slowly disintegrating before my eyes, as they slide down into Division ! ..... WAKE UP Folks !!! because that is very very possible

Without a "fresh start" we have no hope of any Investment being ALLOWED into what should be, a BIG Club

Lowe & Wilde did NOT come back for SAINTS Football, they came back for thier own ends

ANY ADMINISTRATOR would be doing what Lowe is doing, but, if it were an Administrator doing it, it would be on a clean slate, not with all the Parasites still associated with SFC

We have nothing else to lose, but, Long Term, everything to gain So this team -10 to -17 points would stay up would it? The players would not be sold by the administrator then? who takes massive fees and stays in the best hotels drinks the best wines and champagnes on us.
LA LA land St Richmond.

[OldNick]

F**k the points, this season is a busted flush already.Run away , throw in the towel, panic Mr Manwaring. Boy, would I not want to go into battle with people like you.

[JustMike]

Run away , throw in the towel, panic Mr Manwaring. Boy, would I not want to go into battle with people like you.

maybe not but I can see where he is coming from. When we lose davies and / or surman..who do we put in the team then? The kit man? oh no, i forgot, he's gone too.

[alpine_saint]

Run away , throw in the towel, panic Mr Manwaring. Boy, would I not want to go into battle with people like you.

If you are going to start calling names, maybe you go and bury your head in the sand again, Mr. Ostrich.

This club will not go forward until it has once-and-for-all confronted its demons and past face-on.

[saint1977]

Lowe hasn't got much choice on the sales - we all know the bank run the show now, but we do need 4 loans this week if that's the case to have any hope of getting any more than 30 points this season. If we go the big 4, we might be able to limit our wage contributions. If we do not bring in loans to replace Surman and Davies - WE WILL GO DOWN AND FINISH BOTTOM. WE WILL THEN GO INTO ADMINISTRATION ON -17 IN LEAGUE ONE. I don't agree with those that say "go into administration now" but I can see where they are coming from.
Investment now has to be the board's top priority just to keep the academy and survive.

[Granadino]

So Saints fans are now down on a player they havent seen but take notice of a load of goons on a football forum.
Imagine how rival teams would get reports from here on a load of players.
You cant take notice of them until you yourselves have seen the player.I agreee with the sentiments that he doesnt inspire but I doubt he is costing anything Pulis is trying to get his son to a new surrounding where he will not be seen as 'only plays because of his father'

Not trying to be overly down about a player I've seen little of, but given our financial position and that we are meant to be giving our academy players a go this season, I find it hard to believe we are using up precious funds on bringing in a player to play in a position which we are fairly well off in (considering how we are struggling for defenders) - especially one with a record like this by the age of 24. He has little more experience than one of our academy players, let's face it.

Years Club App (Gls)*
2003-2004 Portsmouth 0 (0)
2004- Stoke City 2 (0)
2004-2005 Torquay United (loan) 3 (0)
2006 Plymouth Argyle (loan) 5 (0)
2006-2007 Grimsby Town (loan) 9 (0)
2008 Bristol Rovers (loan) 1 (0)

[Legod Second Coming]

If you are going to start calling names, maybe you go and bury your head in the sand again, Mr. Ostrich.

This club will not go forward until it has once-and-for-all confronted its demons and past face-on.

What are these demons and what is your proposal for confronting them, out of interest??

[Wade Garrett]

I think the supposed interest from Reading for Surman is a load of ********. It's just a smokescreen to cushion the blow of losing Davies.

'Oh well, not too bad. We're keeping Surman'.

We are being run by a pair of weasels.

[alpine_saint]

What are these demons and what is your proposal for confronting them, out of interest??


how many times do I need to repeat it ?

The club needs to be made as attractive as possible to a buyer with money as quickly as possible, whilst still owning a few decent players and assets from which to build.

That means as cheap as possible.

That means going into administration. Lowe, Wilde and their mis-management will take what they can and f**k off forever then.

And we can start again.

Who gives a shiit about the 10 or 17 points ? These two idiots ahve no money - WE HAVE NO FUTURE UNDER THEIR OWNERSHIP

[SaintRichmond]

So this team -10 to -17 points would stay up would it? The players would not be sold by the administrator then? who takes massive fees and stays in the best hotels drinks the best wines and champagnes on us.
LA LA land St Richmond.

We would stand MORE of a chance in staying up starting from -10 to -17, than we do now, under a completly NEW regime. Administration WOULD unlock the door to serious Investment being allowed to come in

Are you trying to tell me that, under the present Board, we are even going to survive financially, let alone on the pitch.

Are you trying to tell me that, on the pitch, we are going to retain our CCC status ??.... Good football to watch, I agree, but NOT the sort of football that survives in the CCC

Players are ALREADY being sold ..... or have you not noticed, but their Sale is NOT rectifying the problem. The "leaks" are still there. All Lowe is doing is "treading water"


It is YOU who are in LA LA Land my friend

Under Lowe & Wilde, we are only going ONE WAY, and it is NOT upwards

[Saint Martini]

If you are going to start calling names, maybe you go and bury your head in the sand again, Mr. Ostrich.

This club will not go forward until it has once-and-for-all confronted its demons and past face-on.

Indeed, so we should deal with the debt and the losses we are making as quickly and thoroughly. Now I'm not happy that we're selling players that could be important to the first team but if there's no takes for Euell, Skacel, etc. then this is the only way.

[Mr X]

Roll up roll up come and get your saints players, everything must go in our closing down sale buy one get one free!

Joking aside the club preaching that we can be competitive in this league is absolute crap Sell many more and we really will have the worst team in the league

[Master Bates]

Roll up roll up come and get your saints players, everything must go in our closing down sale buy one get one free!


I'll buy one of the laydees from Southampton Saints if the team still exists.

[Mr X]

I'll buy one of the laydees from Southampton Saints if the team still exists.

Lowe sold them to a pimp long ago :D

[OldNick]

We would stand MORE of a chance in staying up starting from -10 to -17, than we do now, under a completly NEW regime. Administration WOULD unlock the door to serious Investment being allowed to come in

Are you trying to tell me that, under the present Board, we are even going to survive financially, let alone on the pitch.

Are you trying to tell me that, on the pitch, we are going to retain our CCC status ??.... Good football to watch, I agree, but NOT the sort of football that survives in the CCC

Players are ALREADY being sold ..... or have you not noticed, but their Sale is NOT rectifying the problem. The "leaks" are still there. All Lowe is doing is "treading water"


It is YOU who are in LA LA Land my friend

Under Lowe & Wilde, we are only going ONE WAY, and it is NOT upwards After 2 games!!!!
What investment is going to take a club that is relegated as a -10 would definately do that.
Andrew Davies has not played for months.We dont know how much difference he would make.I rate him but he will be like Baird and be found out in the quicker PL. Somebody please let us know how many goals let in and points gained when he was in the team.We liked him for his bravery and commitment.
If we finish mid table we will be on the way up. The thing that worries me most is that the team we had saturday will have to be sold, then we are in the mire.As our football gets noted by the big clubs some will come sniffing to take them away.That is why the end of august cannot come quick enough.

[Torres]

Do be serious mate. Protecting your investment is all about take, take, take in his book, rather than actually put some money in.

How about he work for nothing for 6 months, seeing as he expects the team to play for nothing.


Yep, its crystal clear that Lowe's vision of "building for the future" and "putting the club on a sound financial basis with prudent planning" has gone completely, utterly and irredemably tittus-verticus within 3 months of taking over and within 2 weeks of the season starting.

The players being offloaded are now the young ones which we were supposed to be basing our entire strategy on.

This clown is going to screw this club up once-and-for-all this time.

The boat is sinking and the bailing out bucket has got a whopping hole in it.


Yep, 100% agree. And we might even be bought with a couple of decent players still at the club.

F**k the points, this season is a busted flush already.

Toomer is no fan of Lowe, that's for sure, but even he understands the reality of the situation.


The Bank is holding the ace card and if they tell Lowe that they want x amount of money by the end of August he has to let players go.

Why the hell can't you?

[Junior Mullet]

Not surprised Davies wants out. Indicative of the make-money while you can player mentality these days. let him go, he's not good enough for the Prem anyway and he's injury prone. Stoke will be relegated and Davies will not be bought by another prem club next season.

I wouldnt mind Surman going. He's lacked any real form since playing for the England U.21's last season. He's not a natural left-back IMO and gives the ball away far too often. £2.5m would be a great deal IMO. Skacel with Mills as cover is much more preferable to me.

Not seen Pullis play so can't really comment. Does seem odd though. Not sure we need anyone else who is average at best and remember we have Euell as CM cover.

[Leslie Charteris]

This quote from the forum underneath the article linked to above talks a lot more sense than many on here. This seems to be much closer to the reality of the situation than the "reality" described by some members...

"Davies was never going to stay so get used to the fact that he is moving on. He was signed and was given a contract for £10k per week. Within weeks, after Crouch took over as Chairman, he was asked to take a pay cut to £5k per week which he refused to accept so it was always on the cards he would leave. At Middlesborough he was never considered 'top drawer' but would cope in the Championship and therefore ended up at Saints. His 'style' suited the fans, who were looking for a hero, but will never be a class act and will continue to be a journeyman."

..but why miss an opportunity to have a go at Lowe. It must be immensely satisfying to be right all the time.

[Master Bates]

Lowe sold them to a pimp long ago :D

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7198/motz6vy7.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[Legod Second Coming]

how many times do I need to repeat it ?

The club needs to be made as attractive as possible to a buyer with money as quickly as possible, whilst still owning a few decent players and assets from which to build.

That means as cheap as possible.

That means going into administration. Lowe, Wilde and their mis-management will take what they can and f**k off forever then.

And we can start again.

Who gives a shiit about the 10 or 17 points ? These two idiots ahve no money - WE HAVE NO FUTURE UNDER THEIR OWNERSHIP

Who do you think will take us over when we got into administration?? Like most businesses it will be the INCUMBENT management.

Christ, are you genuinely this naive???

[alpine_saint]

Who do you think will take us over when we got into administration?? Like most businesses it will be the INCUMBENT management.

Christ, are you genuinely this naive???

why is it naiiveity ?

We've had a few nibbles over the past year. Maybe the club would be more attractive then.

[Wes Tender]

So Saints fans are now down on a player they havent seen but take notice of a load of goons on a football forum.
Imagine how rival teams would get reports from here on a load of players.
You cant take notice of them until you yourselves have seen the player.I agreee with the sentiments that he doesnt inspire but I doubt he is costing anything Pulis is trying to get his son to a new surrounding where he will not be seen as 'only plays because of his father'

And conversely of course it seems to be the case that unless Pulis selects his son he would not have played for Stoke or any other team that Pulis has managed except through nepotism.

I agree that an internet forum is not the place to use as a pointer as to a player's prowess, but if they looked at ours, they would notice the vast majority up in arms that we were selling Davies, but look at their forum and nobody has a good word to say about Pulis junior.

But the manager used to say that there is no point in bringing in a player unless he is better than what we have. Used correctly, that policy would entail a gradual improvement in a squad. Applied to us now, as we are getting rid of any quality and replacing it with youth, so the judgement of whether any replacement is better than what we have is clouded.

But on the face of it, it appears that we would be better off not having Pulis as part of the deal, unless of course JP had him in on trial and saw something in him that everybody else seems to have missed. ;)

[SaintRichmond]

Who do you think will take us over when we got into administration?? Like most businesses it will be the INCUMBENT management.

Christ, are you genuinely this naive???

If we are worth " peanuts ", then we will be more of an attractive proposition than we are at the moment

Al this selling off of what talent we have IS NOT REDUCING THE DEBT, purely paying the Interest to satisfy Barclays

The "Naivity " to which you refer, should be aimed at the Lowe ? Wilde ticket, because they have done NOTHING, nor will they do anything, for the furtherance of Saints Football

All their remit is .... do enough to keep us "legally solvent " ...... keep the PLC fraternity Happy, sell anything that can attract a fee, and everything from a "sound" business point of view will be fine ....... the fact that the Football Team will be heading for Div 1, or worse, does not figure in their litle minds

[Saint_clark]

Can't wait for the arrival of Pulis' son. :-S

http://www.clubfanzine.com/stoke_city/v2.showNews.php?id=3410

Oh, f*cking fantastic.

[OldNick]

If we are worth " peanuts ", then we will be more of an attractive proposition than we are at the moment

Al this selling off of what talent we have IS NOT REDUCING THE DEBT, purely paying the Interest to satisfy Barclays

The "Naivity " to which you refer, should be aimed at the Lowe ? Wilde ticket, because they have done NOTHING, nor will they do anything, for the furtherance of Saints Football

All their remit is .... do enough to keep us "legally solvent " ...... keep the PLC fraternity Happy, sell anything that can attract a fee, and everything from a "sound" business point of view will be fine ....... the fact that the Football Team will be heading for Div 1, or worse, does not figure in their litle mindsWould Saints stay up with a minus 10 point penalty?

[ottery st mary]

The truth is probably somewhere betwwen RL & MW wishing to protect their stake in the business and the bank saying "ok, but continued support will mean selling assets". The Bank will not stipulate who they sell as otherwise would become "interested directors" under the terms of the Companies Act and thus illegal.

It seems to me that as nobody wishes to buy Kelvin Davies, Euell and Skajel we are forced to sell others who can raise reasonable sums, not by design but simply circumstances. That is the fact of the case surely? We can all help in a small way by ensuring that the 18K fans who were their on Saturday each bring and ex-supporter back to SMS for the rest of the season.

So finances dictate but then we are supposed to be taking a player not good enough for Stoke reserves or any of the teams he has been loaned out to.
Surely he will need wages and reduces the fee for Davies. It does not make sense and if JP has a choice he was not watching the Stoke friendly or in any of his appearances in the past seasons. Just can't make sense of this.

[Legod Second Coming]

why is it naiiveity ?

We've had a few nibbles over the past year. Maybe the club would be more attractive then.

Firstly, most of these nibbles have been from people who do not have the clout to buy the club, lest it would have been sold. SISU was our only realistic purchaser.

Second, there is no guarantee that ANY buyer is any more likely to buy us out of adminsitration when the club is STILL loss-making. Few people buy loss-making businesses, fewer still when staring down the barrel of recession.

Third, the points loss would relegate us, making it EVEN more difficult to turn the business around and therefore even less saleable.

And finally, because the most likely buyer of ANY business that goes into administration is either the incumbent or former management. (That's what comes of being married to a bank manager, the son-in-law of an accountant and the brother-in-law of a receiver...)

Our ONLY hope of survival is to match out income to our outgoings. Frankly THAT is the only hope of ANY business to survive.

You don't like Lowe, I don't like him.

But to launch us into administration to try and oust him is a guarantee of relegation. At least his way offers us hope of survival.

[Saint Martini]

why is it naiiveity ?

We've had a few nibbles over the past year. Maybe the club would be more attractive then.

Maybe? You're willing to risk the future of the club on it maybe being more interesting to investors? What happens if we're not interesting anyway, then we're absolutely fooked beyond repair.

[alpine_saint]

Maybe? You're willing to risk the future of the club on it maybe being more interesting to investors? What happens if we're not interesting anyway, then we're absolutely fooked beyond repair.

We're f**ked anyway, mate..

[Saint Martini]

We're f**ked anyway, mate..

I'm not saying it will be easy but I still feel we have a chance if we just get some more of the high earners of our books. It won't be easy but at least we have a fighting chance. Going into administration just fooks us up more and doomes us to relegation straight away.

[OldNick]

We're f**ked anyway, mate.. You dont need to keep telling us of your lack of fibre and panic at the first dark cloud, its getting boring.
You dont know how close you weree to actually travelling to watch Saints.Had Stern put his chance away, you'd be booking tickets for the Blackpool game ,thereagain it on tv and so you could have said you went even if you stayed in your armchair.

[alpine_saint]

You dont need to keep telling us of your lack of fibre and panic at the first dark cloud, its getting boring.
You dont know how close you weree to actually travelling to watch Saints.Had Stern put his chance away, you'd be booking tickets for the Blackpool game ,thereagain it on tv and so you could have said you went even if you stayed in your armchair.

Hey nick, whatever makes you feel better......

[SaintDonkey]

Administration means a 10 point penalty, probably having to sell players anyway followed by almost certain relegation and further points penalties next season.

Selling players means it'll be tougher to avoid relegation - but a great deal less tough than dealing with a penalty.

Personally I'd be for selling the players and avoiding administration. Anyone who thinks otherwise seriously needs their heads examining.

[Mr X]

Administration means a 10 point penalty, probably having to sell players anyway followed by almost certain relegation and further points penalties next season.

Selling players means it'll be tougher to avoid relegation - but a great deal less tough than dealing with a penalty.

Personally I'd be for selling the players and avoiding administration. Anyone who thinks otherwise seriously needs their heads examining.

We have to keep enough players to be able to have a chance of staying in this league though. And I don't see us doing it if we continue to sell the players that might keep us up. It's a lose lose situation

[aintforever]

Didn't Michael Wilde say that he could easily find a couple of million if it was needed?

****ing judas scum lying tosser ****.

[InvictaSaint]

According to Michael Wilde in Saturday's match programme, the club is now "back on track for a more stable and successful future" [sic]. Doesn't exactly smack of somebody who knows that unless we raise £4M by the end of the month, then the administrators are on their way, does it? Unless of course he has been taking lessons from the White Star Line school of maritime management.......

[SaintDonkey]

According to Michael Wilde in Saturday's match programme, the club is now "back on track for a more stable and successful future" [sic]. Doesn't exactly smack of somebody who knows that unless we raise £4M by the end of the month, then the administrators are on their way, does it? Unless of course he has been taking lessons from the White Star Line school of maritime management.......

To be fair to him "On track for a more stable and successful future" doesn't mean the same thing as actually having a stable and successful future ;)

[GreenTreeFrog]

But the manager used to say that there is no point in bringing in a player unless he is better than what we have. Used correctly, that policy would entail a gradual improvement in a squad. Applied to us now, as we are getting rid of any quality and replacing it with youth, so the judgement of whether any replacement is better than what we have is clouded.




If he had said that then it would be a ridiculous comment to make as it would mean we would only ever sell weaker players and buy better ones. Our finances make that totally impossible; in fact for most clubs it would be impossible.

What he did say was our finances mean we are no longer be able to buy, or even get loan players, for any position where a young player is currently available in our youth team.

He claimed the youth players would need to 'prove themselves' once given the chance but of course reality means we will have little choice but to play squad players regardless.

[St Marco]

Be interesting to know where this £4m by end of transfer day comment came from that the echo printed. I cant believe it is true for 1 minute because what happens if they dont make the £4m? The bank go "we want our cash or we send the heavies round!!". The banks are not stupid, they know they have a better chance getting their money back by giving the club the best chance to survive. If we go down we will go into admin and the banks will lose everything. This just looks like classic Lowe selling off anything that has a value. If we are in the situation where we still need lots of cut backs after all the ones over the past 4 months then it raises the question where has the money gone from that? And here we are again back to where we were 2 years ago.

[Saint Martini]

Like I said it looks like the combined sum of 4 million from the Davies and Surman rumours and the alleged comment by Lowe before the Brum match that the bank forced him to accept the offer for Davies are being added up by the Echo to: The bank wants 4 million in player sales.

[OldNick]

I have researched our record with Davies in the side. This is not to put a downer on him as i like him as a player and of course no defeat/win is down to 1 player.CCC ONLY
He played 23 games

won 4

drew 10

lost 9

clean sheets 5

against 32
I wonder if those figures are a surprise.

[OldNick]

To be balanced i got the figures of before he came and after.
Before he joined was 11 games
LOST 5

DREW 1

WON 5

GOALS AGAINST 25

CLEAN SHEETS NONE

GAMES AFTER HE WAS INJURED (12)

LOST 4

DREW 4

WON 4

GOALS CONCEDED 20

CLEAN SHEETS 3


THE GOALS PER GAME RATIO WAS DEFINATELY BETTER WHEN HE PLAYED.

[saint_ed]

Despite me being totally gutted about the impending sale of Davies, but I can just about understand our desperate need for cash, but what I can't understand and what makes me furious is that we are signing Pulis. If we are trying to cut our wage bill, why sign such utter sh!te???

[Calvin]

We're well-and-truly fuuucked.
I have to agree.

who will Saints sell next...

[Fowllyd]

Despite me being totally gutted about the impending sale of Davies, but I can just about understand our desperate need for cash, but what I can't understand and what makes me furious is that we are signing Pulis. If we are trying to cut our wage bill, why sign such utter sh!te???

Are we? It's only the Echo saying that. If I were you I wouldn't take that as fact!

[Totton Red]

Be interesting to know where this £4m by end of transfer day comment came from that the echo printed. I cant believe it is true for 1 minute because what happens if they dont make the £4m? The bank go "we want our cash or we send the heavies round!!". The banks are not stupid, they know they have a better chance getting their money back by giving the club the best chance to survive. If we go down we will go into admin and the banks will lose everything. This just looks like classic Lowe selling off anything that has a value. If we are in the situation where we still need lots of cut backs after all the ones over the past 4 months then it raises the question where has the money gone from that? And here we are again back to where we were 2 years ago.


The Echo are printing the script written for them by SFC and the scaremongering is to appease as many fans as possible. It is obvious that we need to be financially prudent but the deadlines are invented to dilute the impact.

[Faz]

The Echo are printing the script written for them by SFC and the scaremongering is to appease as many fans as possible. It is obvious that we need to be financially prudent but the deadlines are invented to dilute the impact.

OMG, you mean it's a conspiracy?

[Viking Warrior]

I have thought about becoming a full member having been away for a while but when you get that total pric* alpine spouting such negative ****e all the time im not sure i want to pay just to read his ****e. why cant you and sfc stick to your own twosome site and allow those with some intellect to have reasoned debate on this web