Watch the panic to get Skacel and Euell involved unfold first-hand

[alpine_saint]

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/a...?page_id=10461

The change-in-tone is astounding. Makes it sound like they are coming back from injury...

Looks like "total football" is dying at birth on the South Coast...

[toofarnorth]

I think Skacel could play a useful part in our current team and also Euell for that fact. Dont think they weren't invloved because they couldn't play the new system just that Jan thought they'd be gone by now.

[Phil the Saint]

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/a...?page_id=10461

The change-in-tone is astounding. Makes it sound like they are coming back from injury...

Looks like "total football" is dying at birth on the South Coast...

Both are failures quite happy to see neither them in the 1st team again. Especially Euell who can't trap a bag of cement. Over paid and legends in their own minds.

[Give it to Ron]

Well what else are we meant to do with 2 players that we can't shift on?
They are decent players and if people cut out all this bullcrap about total football and see what actually is happening on the pitch just maybe we will get somewhere.
Euell had a pretty decent pre-season and could be a good addition to the squad up front as a sub - has height and can score goals - Wolves away last minute?
Why do people expect anything else but hype from the OS do they expect them to say....we can't sell them because they are crap and no-one else will be mug enough to pay them?

[alpine_saint]

I am happy for them to be re-integrated, dont get me wrong.

But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season...

Maybe it will turn out for the best, but I wonder how JP feels ?

[Weston Super Saint]

Well what else are we meant to do with 2 players that we can't shift on?
They are decent players and if people cut out all this bullcrap about total football and see what actually is happening on the pitch just maybe we will get somewhere.
Euell had a pretty decent pre-season and could be a good addition to the squad up front as a sub - has height and can score goals - Wolves away last minute?
Why do people expect anything else but hype from the OS do they expect them to say....we can't sell them because they are crap and no-one else will be mug enough to pay them?

Would make a refreshing change...

[Minty]

I am happy for them to be re-integrated, dont get me wrong.

But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season...

Maybe it will turn out for the best, but I wonder how JP feels ?

Two extra players in the squad is far from 'a complete waste of pre-season'... they will be expected to fit into the squad and the style of play accordingly... none of that will change.

I'd be interested to know how you came to that conclusion Alpine.

[Give it to Ron]

Would make a refreshing change...

Agreed but not great for team or player morale especially if you expect them to play again for you.

[Weston Super Saint]

Agreed but not great for team or player morale especially if you expect them to play again for you.

Unlike the manager / chairman stating publically that they had no place in the team??? :smt102

[toofarnorth]

I am happy for them to be re-integrated, dont get me wrong.

But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season...

Maybe it will turn out for the best, but I wonder how JP feels ?

He new we were pretty screwed financially before he came, but even he must be a bit crestfallen at seeing some of his youngsters now being touted for moves away. I dont think it marks the end of JP and Lowes plans but they are having to be hastily reworked and tweeked.

[ladysaint]

[quote=alpine_saint;19288]IBut for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season...

When did we last have a preseason that was of any significance, we always seem to waste the time and IMO this is the most crucial part of the season to get a settled squad together.

[66East]

On the one hand, it'll be good if they stay and are integrated into the team. On the other hand, we'll still be paying two high earners which we really could do with shifting. Don't be surprised if both are loaned out on the final day of the window, just to get them off the wage bill.

[Give it to Ron]

I am happy for them to be re-integrated, dont get me wrong.

But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season...

Maybe it will turn out for the best, but I wonder how JP feels ?

I don't understand why though ...some of the criticism on here from Saturday is that JP only has one plan....these 2 players will allow an alternative?
I think JP will be pleased to have 2 more players at his disposal.

[Killer]

interesting that their is no Dyer and i'm surprised that no scottish clubs have come in for rudi after his previous success up their.

[ottery st mary]

Two extra players in the squad is far from 'a complete waste of pre-season'... they will be expected to fit into the squad and the style of play accordingly... none of that will change.

I'd be interested to know how you came to that conclusion Alpine.

They are two very good pros at the top of their game and fitness who will kiss the badge and play for the club tonight because they are paid by Saints
and have loyalty......Wake up me...They will play out of their skin tonight because someone is watching with a good contract.Or play like they did most games last season because noone is interested at their price even with us offering some of the wages.

I can see why JP has sleepless nights with his team selection.
Bring on the yuf..

[Rebel]

I am happy for them to be re-integrated, dont get me wrong.

But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season...

Maybe it will turn out for the best, but I wonder how JP feels ?

can you just shoot yourself and get it over and done with

[Wes Tender]

That seems a half decent team with a blend of youth and experience. And just to think that they can be watched for free whilst playing at home, whereas their counterparts in the first team will cost £25 to watch;) And these are precisely the lads who will be introduced into the first team over the next few months as one by one the youngsters who show any promise at all will depart for pastures greener.

[alpine_saint]

On the one hand, it'll be good if they stay and are integrated into the team. On the other hand, we'll still be paying two high earners which we really could do with shifting. Don't be surprised if both are loaned out on the final day of the window, just to get them off the wage bill.

Always a possibility, of course. Though I reckon that the longer it takes, the more likely we will be paying part of the wages in such a deal. And there is always the chance fo them going to our opposition....

Then we wont even have the booby prize from Davies's sale.......

[alpine_saint]

I don't understand why though ...some of the criticism on here from Saturday is that JP only has one plan....these 2 players will allow an alternative?
I think JP will be pleased to have 2 more players at his disposal.

Because we keep being told that they dont fit in and are the past as a point of principle, etc..

I hope that this was a case of JP not being allowed to work with them, they are coming back into contention as a sop to fans anger, and that now he can work with them, he might get them firing on all cylinders.

[The Godfather]

That seems a half decent team with a blend of youth and experience. And just to think that they can be watched for free whilst playing at home, whereas their counterparts in the first team will cost £25 to watch;) And these are precisely the lads who will be introduced into the first team over the next few months as one by one the youngsters who show any promise at all will depart for pastures greener.

They are better to watch I agree but the way things are going this season outcome is only going oneway, Relegation.

[AwaySaint1]

Presumably Dyer is still taking it in the gob for fives in Winchester public toilets

ouch that post stings,I have just told myself that there is no way that post would of been made by a full member.

I look under your usename and what did I see? "Registered member".

[Alanh]

So last week we had a thread started by the same poster asking why we aren't playing SKacel if only to put him in the shop window, and now we have a thread criticising JP and Lowe for Mark Wotte's decision to include him in a reserve match. I don't see how the management of the club can make a decision which will make the original poster happy.

FWIW I think JP expected Skacel and Euell to be gone by now so didn't include him in his plans. If it turns out that one or both of them stay then they add options to the squad. They may not e first choice immediately but I'm sure they'll be given the opportunity to prove themselves, and if they do, I'm sure they will get into the team.

[Give it to Ron]

Because we keep being told that they dont fit in and are the past as a point of principle, etc..

I hope that this was a case of JP not being allowed to work with them, they are coming back into contention as a sop to fans anger, and that now he can work with them, he might get them firing on all cylinders.

I am hopefully going tonite so will let you know!
The thing also about pre-season doesn't also matter too much for us a Ladysaint said..we always waste it, however, looking at the side Saturday McGoldrick, Llalana, Gillette, James, Thomson plus the other subs have played together for years so do know each others games far better than many of the sides we have had at the start of the season in recent years.

[Window Cleaner]

So last week we had a thread started by the same poster asking why we aren't playing SKacel if only to put him in the shop window, and now we have a thread criticising JP and Lowe for Mark Wotte's decision to include him in a reserve match. I don't see how the management of the club can make a decision which will make the original poster happy.

FWIW I think JP expected Skacel and Euell to be gone by now so didn't include him in his plans. If it turns out that one or both of them stay then they add options to the squad. They may not e first choice immediately but I'm sure they'll be given the opportunity to prove themselves, and if they do, I'm sure they will get into the team.

Well I would think that they might stay actually. Would think we've trimmed the wage bill by about 4.5 million a year so far (with Davies going ) and amassed about 4.5 million for the kitty (Bale add on, Davies,Safri, Crouch sell on and odds and ends). Doubt if we put much up front to get Schneiderlin. Probably not even half of "rising to 1.5 million euros" .We'll see if they have as yet learned the humility and selflessness needed to play in Jan's system,what he called 'getting his head right" when apparently referring to Skacel.

[OldNick]

can you just shoot yourself and get it over and done with
Unsurprisingly I LOL'd

[mynameisthehulk]

I am happy for them to be re-integrated, dont get me wrong.

But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season...

Maybe it will turn out for the best, but I wonder how JP feels ?


Why though Alps? Both players you have mentioned could easily play in a couple of positions in the new formation. Skacel can play on the left or as the amc, Euell can play amc or up top. If we are forced to keep them both, or sales of other players leave us in a position to keep them both, then they can become assests to the squad IMO.

[OldNick]

The relish Alpne takes in anything that might go wrong would be amusing if it wasn't every day.
A blunderbus approach.If he sprays out enough shot sooner of later he might hit the target and be right in an assessment.

[alpine_saint]

So last week we had a thread started by the same poster asking why we aren't playing SKacel if only to put him in the shop window, and now we have a thread criticising JP and Lowe for Mark Wotte's decision to include him in a reserve match. I don't see how the management of the club can make a decision which will make the original poster happy.



Wasnt aware I was criticizing. In fact, I am sure I commented that I am somewhat pleased. Therefore, I am consistent with last wek. Hell, dont let something as simple as reading the post get in the way though.

I do find it ironic that as soon as Lowe's best-laid plans fall apart at the seams, the squad takes a huge leap in direction.

Beginning to feel quite sorry for JP. After all, he's trying to build a team and a style of play.

[alpine_saint]

Unsurprisingly I LOL'd

Indeed, unsurprisingly, considering your intolerance to other perspectives.

[alpine_saint]

The relish Alpne takes in anything that might go wrong would be amusing if it wasn't every day.
A blunderbus approach.If he sprays out enough shot sooner of later he might hit the target and be right in an assessment.

Another one who failled his SATS reading test....

[Redondo Saint]

Always a possibility, of course. Though I reckon that the longer it takes, the more likely we will be paying part of the wages in such a deal. And there is always the chance fo them going to our opposition....

Then we wont even have the booby prize from Davies's sale.......

There you go again! You just can't help it can you?

[Minty]

Wasnt aware I was criticizing. In fact, I am sure I commented that I am somewhat pleased. Therefore, I am consistent with last wek. Hell, dont let something as simple as reading the post get in the way though.

I do find it ironic that as soon as Lowe's best-laid plans fall apart at the seams, the squad takes a huge leap in direction.

Beginning to feel quite sorry for JP. After all, he's trying to build a team and a style of play.

I still don't see how anything related to the style of play will change? If they come in and play to JP's tactics and intended style, then great. They aren't going to be forced to play, and as JP has shown with Dyer and BWP, if they don't work hard or fit into how he wants the team to play, then they won't play.

[alpine_saint]

There you go again! You just can't help it can you?

We've just given Rasiak to Watford for the season. It's not like I am considering something totally unheard of in the anals of SFC recent history...

[alpine_saint]

I still don't see how anything related to the style of play will change? If they come in and play to JP's tactics and intended style, then great. They aren't going to be forced to play, and as JP has shown with Dyer and BWP, if they don't work hard or fit into how he wants the team to play, then they won't play.

I am not convinced by this argument of getting players to play to a system. I reckon teams should play to the strengths of the members.

[up and away]

I am happy for them to be re-integrated, dont get me wrong.

But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season...

Maybe it will turn out for the best, but I wonder how JP feels ?

This has been JP's position from the begining. He only wanted to rely upon players he knew had a good chance of actually being here at the start of the season and beyond the window. Makes a lot of sense to build the team around your known resources, rather to work hard on them with the system and fitness to find they are moving on, then trying to shoe someone else in. But this logic forgoes the standard whinge, so I can see why you would never take to it.

[broncoboy]

Rupert Lowes Total Football Revolution

Brilliant

[Giordano]

I think that good football management at SMS requires part financial management, part soccer coaching and part cold blooded pragmatism.

We all know the ££ situation is bad.
We all know we lost our first two league games.
We all know the big earners have to go.

BUT........being pragmatic i see no reason why the prospect of Euell and Skacel possibly returning to first team by playing a reserves match should contradict that early avowed intention to play the youth. Sometimes you need to take a step sideways, or backwards, in order to get to your goal. Maybe Skacel at LB would have helped on saturday, maybe Euell in MF would also.It does not mean the other young uns on the pitch/squad are not developing and presumably we are paying most of the salaries to those two even if they dont play, its just win and appearance bonusesw they are missing out on....

Its when its 11 old geezers and a kid on the bench that id get worried....

Its a subtlety which these pure action-reaction threads from posters totally miss. Jan HAS to use every trick he knows..........but the gist of it is that we need do it with the kids.....

[Alanh]

Wasnt aware I was criticizing. In fact, I am sure I commented that I am somewhat pleased. Therefore, I am consistent with last wek. Hell, dont let something as simple as reading the post get in the way though.

I do find it ironic that as soon as Lowe's best-laid plans fall apart at the seams, the squad takes a huge leap in direction.

Beginning to feel quite sorry for JP. After all, he's trying to build a team and a style of play.

I am happy for them to be re-integrated, dont get me wrong.

But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season...

Agreed, you said you were pleased, but it's difficult to read the second line of your quote in italics as anything other than criticism (at least implied) of Lowe certainly and arguably JP.

As said above, both players can play to the system and their own strengths - Skacel could replace any of Surman, Holmes or Lallana from Saturday's team and Euell could replace any of Lallana, Gillett, Schneiderlin or John, or even arguably McG or Holmes. The team can still play the same way with or without these players.

I'm sure JP would have preferred to have every player who is going to be in the squad on their game from day one of pre-season, but that simply doesn't happen at any club for a variety of reason. We'll find out how good a manager he is when he has to work to overcome issues thrown up along the way i.e. injuries, suspensions, unexpected departures, etc.

[Danny]

But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season...


Right. Two players who might or might not be leaving, playing in the reserves signifies the entire collapse of the new system?

And you wonder why no-one takes you seriously? Every single post of yours is laced with over-reactionary hyperbole.

[Glasgow_Saint]

two squad players play in reserves + Alpine in over analyzing shocker!

[Bon Call Night]

I am happy for them to be re-integrated, dont get me wrong.

But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season...

Maybe it will turn out for the best, but I wonder how JP feels ?

You happy.... you have never been happy! You just criticise from a distance, in fact to a point why I do not understand why you bother supporting Saints.

Why does this mean the end of the plan? We have THREE or FOUR players over the age of 23 in the team at the moment, are you saying that Skacel and Euell are not capable of playing the system?

We have been lucky to see one or two under the age of 23 in the past, yet now players are getting a chance. Players like Lallana, Thomson, James, Gillet and McGoldrick who have come through our youth system, plus the likes of Surman, Holmes and Schneiderlin who we have provided an opportunity to.

We have played last years Cup Finalists and probably the hottest favourites for promotion in the league yet you continue to snipe. Until you bring some value or analysis to the table you might as well support someone else.

You may be entitled to your opinion and it may just be your style of posting but people as negative as you continue to criticise any progress that is made. I expect we may lose next week too, but it represents our first chance of real points to me.... struggling team, manager under pressure, and a team in denial. We tried your Stern John approach and he missed a couple of sitters, what constructive ideas do you have for improvement?

[Bon Call Night]

I think that good football management at SMS requires part financial management, part soccer coaching and part cold blooded pragmatism.

We all know the ££ situation is bad.
We all know we lost our first two league games.
We all know the big earners have to go.

BUT........being pragmatic i see no reason why the prospect of Euell and Skacel possibly returning to first team by playing a reserves match should contradict that early avowed intention to play the youth. Sometimes you need to take a step sideways, or backwards, in order to get to your goal. Maybe Skacel at LB would have helped on saturday, maybe Euell in MF would also.It does not mean the other young uns on the pitch/squad are not developing and presumably we are paying most of the salaries to those two even if they dont play, its just win and appearance bonusesw they are missing out on....

Its when its 11 old geezers and a kid on the bench that id get worried....

Its a subtlety which these pure action-reaction threads from posters totally miss. Jan HAS to use every trick he knows..........but the gist of it is that we need do it with the kids.....


For me the start of the second half was all about naivity, a good team like Brum and probably a few crap ones going in 1 down will fly at you for the firt 10-15 minutes of the second half. If someone like Euell was playing where Lalana played (not necessarily dropping Lallana, move him wide right and play McGoldrick up front where he has scored goals!!!) then he may have had the nouse to sit in for the first few minutes and shut up shop.

JP is still learning too, he was up against a seasoned CL manager with infinitely more resources at his disposal - but right now we need to get the balance right so maybe Euell coming into midfield may address that.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Skacel could EASILY play a part.

[Saint Charlie]

Alpine spends way too much time on here for someone who never watches the team play. Unfortunately he posts excessively on every thread thereby spoling the majority of threads, perhaps a posting cap would be a good idea?

[S4INT]

Personally I think Euell could be very useful in midfield providing some experience. AND HE CAN PLAY UP FRONT AND SCORE GOALS :o From what I heard he had a great pre-season and I know he came good at the end of last so give the fellow a chance.
Skacel is also a decent player, now that we have them we may as well use them as best we can, as cover if nothing else...

[NickG]

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/a...?page_id=10461

The change-in-tone is astounding. Makes it sound like they are coming back from injury...

Looks like "total football" is dying at birth on the South Coast...

sorry don't want to start more bickering but don't understand why that link means total football is dying etc....?

[Professor]

sorry don't want to start more bickering but don't understand why that link means total football is dying etc....?
Nick, dont ask! You're not dealing with a balanced view. There's no point responding to something quite as ridiculous as the post that began this thread and personally, I haven't wasted any time reading all the other AS posts. This individual is in a fantasy world.

[Johnny Shearer]

You happy.... you have never been happy! You just criticise from a distance, in fact to a point why I do not understand why you bother supporting Saints.

Why does this mean the end of the plan? We have THREE or FOUR players over the age of 23 in the team at the moment, are you saying that Skacel and Euell are not capable of playing the system?

We have been lucky to see one or two under the age of 23 in the past, yet now players are getting a chance. Players like Lallana, Thomson, James, Gillet and McGoldrick who have come through our youth system, plus the likes of Surman, Holmes and Schneiderlin who we have provided an opportunity to.

We have played last years Cup Finalists and probably the hottest favourites for promotion in the league yet you continue to snipe. Until you bring some value or analysis to the table you might as well support someone else.

You may be entitled to your opinion and it may just be your style of posting but people as negative as you continue to criticise any progress that is made. I expect we may lose next week too, but it represents our first chance of real points to me.... struggling team, manager under pressure, and a team in denial. We tried your Stern John approach and he missed a couple of sitters, what constructive ideas do you have for improvement?

Funny that. As thats what Alpine said to me in another thread, only I mentioned that we Saints fans are a bunch of moaners when we should get behind the TEAM ala fans of Leeds, Weds, Forest etc! :cool:

[adriansfc]

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/a...?page_id=10461

The change-in-tone is astounding. Makes it sound like they are coming back from injury...

Looks like "total football" is dying at birth on the South Coast...

ffs will you please shut the **** up.

you sound worse than the most irritating of all pompey fans now, and that's from someone who defended you in the past. i've never heard you say a positive word, ever. you seem to revel in finding something to moan about every day. no, 10 times a day. please please please stop.

[boxosponge]

Alpine spends way too much time on here for someone who never watches the team play. Unfortunately he posts excessively on every thread thereby spoling the majority of threads, perhaps a posting cap would be a good idea?

I finally resorted to the Ignore function and it has made me even happier than I felt in watching a Saints TEAM play exciting football on Saturday for the first time in a considerable while.

Don't feed the troll

[offix]

I finally resorted to the Ignore function and it has made me even happier than I felt in watching a Saints TEAM play exciting football on Saturday for the first time in a considerable while.

Don't feed the troll

Shame you can't put the RESULTS of our exciting football on ignore, isn't it?

[alpine_saint]

Personally I think Euell could be very useful in midfield providing some experience. AND HE CAN PLAY UP FRONT AND SCORE GOALS :o From what I heard he had a great pre-season and I know he came good at the end of last so give the fellow a chance.
Skacel is also a decent player, now that we have them we may as well use them as best we can, as cover if nothing else...

Skacel sounds like a busted flush from comments about his performance for the ressies tonight.........:(

For all those of you who have a problem with my posts, use the ignore function.

Your moaning is starting to outweigh my comments about the team which you perceive as moaning.

[boxosponge]

Shame you can't put the RESULTS of our exciting football on ignore, isn't it?

But as I choose to support Saints, I have to put up with whatever they do and can't ignore them.
Being able to enjoy the football being played was such a delight even though we lost

[Rod Le Shearer]

ffs will you please shut the **** up.

you sound worse than the most irritating of all pompey fans now, and that's from someone who defended you in the past. i've never heard you say a positive word, ever. you seem to revel in finding something to moan about every day. no, 10 times a day. please please please stop.

well said. because the reoccurence of ***ts like the original poster on this new site,I have decided to wait and see,before signing up for the "full membership".

its just not worth getting sucked into a meaningless,frustrating "debate" with such a clueless manic-depressive moron,who isnt even a fan of Southampton FC.

[Micky]

I don't know - it could be a plan. Bring back the two of them, forget all the pre-season planning, change the system completely to accomodate them back into the team, never mind the other 9 guys on the pitch - they'll soon adapt back to last seasons system.

Yeah - it's a goer - instant success - let's do it...

[alpine_saint]

I don't know - it could be a plan. Bring back the two of them, forget all the pre-season planning, change the system completely to accomodate them back into the team, never mind the other 9 guys on the pitch - they'll soon adapt back to last seasons system.

Yeah - it's a goer - instant success - let's do it...

The current system isnt delivering results - apart from some people go home with their hearts all-a-flutter...

But not to worry. Word is that Skacel was so crap for the ressies tonight that he's probably not going to be let anywhere near the first team again.

[Micky]

The current system isnt delivering results - apart from some people go home with their hearts all-a-flutter...

But not to worry. Word is that Skacel was so crap for the ressies tonight that he's probably not going to be let anywhere near the first team again.

The current system has been tried over two games.... two.....!!! No it hasn't got results just yet but like all new inovations it will probably require some fine tuning. Give it (them) time.

A bit like the Belfast West Link underpass down the road - cost multi-millions to build, opened 3 months ago and 25 feet deep in water last night. Ohhh to be a fly on the wall of the contractors today.....

[alpine_saint]

The current system has been tried over two games.... two.....!!! No it hasn't got results just yet but like all new inovations it will probably require some fine tuning. Give it (them) time.



Rather than dismissing your optimism as misplaced, I'd like to hear why you think things will improve to such a degree as we wont get picked off in the second half of games.

[Micky]

Rather than dismissing your optimism as misplaced, I'd like to hear why you think things will improve to such a degree as we wont get picked off in the second half of games.

Who says that we have to improve. As the majority of those who have witnessed the first games - overall, we played well. No we didn't get the result, but also judging by some of the press reports that I read at the weekend - we were unlucky to come away with nothing on Saturday.

It isn't the first time that we have lost two in a row - it won't be the last, we have played 2 very good sides, not been overawed, been in the game and clapped off on both occassions.

I don't think we will get anything at Derby, (I think PJ will have shoved a rocket up their asses after the weekend) - but again, if we play well, don't let our heads go down, the lads will continue to learn & improve.

Results will come - we have to support the management and team. I'm of the same opinion as last year (where I was happy to give GB the full season) - no knee jerk reactions after a couple of games, I'm happy to give the manager and players time to put their plans into action.

I seem to remember that you, DD and WA2 all subscribed to giving any new management team 2 years to work some magic after you ousted GB - or have you changed your mandate after only 2 weeks? ;)

[offix]

But as I choose to support Saints, I have to put up with whatever they do and can't ignore them.
Being able to enjoy the football being played was such a delight even though we lost

Strange kind of support that is: You're accepting almost certain death for the club (due to severe mismanagement) because you saw some attractive yet losing football?

I support the club, which is why I won't accept the current crud running the club, and will resist them with everything I've got. Many will call that "Fighting windmills". and it may well be, but I love my Saints and will never just stand by while they kill our club.

[offix]

well said. because the reoccurence of ***ts like the original poster on this new site,I have decided to wait and see,before signing up for the "full membership".

its just not worth getting sucked into a meaningless,frustrating "debate" with such a clueless manic-depressive moron,who isnt even a fan of Southampton FC.

Awww, we'll miss you ........... NOT!

[alpine_saint]

Who says that we have to improve. As the majority of those who have witnessed the first games - overall, we played well. No we didn't get the result, but also judging by some of the press reports that I read at the weekend - we were unlucky to come away with nothing on Saturday.

It isn't the first time that we have lost two in a row - it won't be the last, we have played 2 very good sides, not been overawed, been in the game and clapped off on both occassions.

I don't think we will get anything at Derby, (I think PJ will have shoved a rocket up their asses after the weekend) - but again, if we play well, don't let our heads go down, the lads will continue to learn & improve.

Results will come - we have to support the management and team. I'm of the same opinion as last year (where I was happy to give GB the full season) - no knee jerk reactions after a couple of games, I'm happy to give the manager and players time to put their plans into action.

I seem to remember that you, DD and WA2 all subscribed to giving any new management team 2 years to work some magic after you ousted GB - or have you changed your mandate after only 2 weeks? ;)

Wow, are you serious ? You're putting it down to luck ???

And I dont recall Pearson being given 2 years - how bizarre that some on here claim 13 games was enough to decide he wasnt good enough (without having had the chance or time to shape a team like JP has been given), then have the nerve to lecture the likes of me about not giving JP enough time.

[alpine_saint]

awww, we'll miss you ........... Not!

lol

[EFM]

ouch that post stings,I have just told myself that there is no way that post would of been made by a full member.

I look under your usename and what did I see? "Registered member".

So if he hasn't paid his membership he's not a real fan like you? FFS! Even joining up as a full MEMBER to a fans' forum makes you a better fan now?

[Micky]

Wow, are you serious ? You're putting it down to luck ???

And I dont recall Pearson being given 2 years - how bizarre that some on here claim 13 games was enough to decide he wasnt good enough (without having had the chance or time to shape a team like JP has been given), then have the nerve to lecture the likes of me about not giving JP enough time.

Yeah sorry, should have thought - I've never heard anybody in football ever saying that 'you need a little luck' or similar quotes such as that - remiss of me, so sorry.

Also don't remember actually ever mentioning Pearson in my last post - but I would have been happy to see him stay on. You seem to have conveniently forgotten your claim to giving new management time - and now you call for change to the system after only two weeks. How many ways do you want it?

[alpine_saint]

Yeah sorry, should have thought - I've never heard anybody in football ever saying that 'you need a little luck' or similar quotes such as that - remiss of me, so sorry.

Also don't remember actually ever mentioning Pearson in my last post - but I would have been happy to see him stay on. You seem to have conveniently forgotten your claim to giving new management time - and now you call for change to the system after only two weeks. How many ways do you want it?

Luck is ******. Its used as a coverall for poor performance. We've had enough of this excuse over the past few years.

No, I mentioned him

Can you just remind me who was the first management team brought in after Burley's caretakers ? I was willing to give Pearson time. Seeing as Lowe wasnt, why should I indulge the latest round of his twice-already failed experiment ?

[Micky]

Luck is ******. Its used as a coverall for poor performance. We've had enough of this excuse over the past few years.

No, I mentioned him

Can you just remind me who was the first management team brought in after Burley's caretakers ? I was willing to give Pearson time. Seeing as Lowe wasnt, why should I indulge the latest round of his twice-already failed experiment ?

Then you were watching a different game in your armchair to those who attended SMS to view the 'performance'.

By all accounts it was anything but poor. Who knows, with a little luck we might have got something.

Not sure about your question, no idea what you are on about or what 'twice-already failed experiment' you are alluding to?

[alpine_saint]

Then you were watching a different game in your armchair to those who attended SMS to view the 'performance'.

By all accounts it was anything but poor. Who knows, with a little luck we might have got something.

Not sure about your question, no idea what you are on about or what 'twice-already failed experiment' you are alluding to?

Games last 90mins, not 30-35mins...

How long have you been a Saints fan for ?

Do the names "Wigley" and "Gray" mean nothing to you ?

[tawani]

they might be useful all purpose substitutes especially eueull

[NickG]

Rather than dismissing your optimism as misplaced, I'd like to hear why you think things will improve to such a degree as we wont get picked off in the second half of games.

my view is based on the Birmingham game -we were so easily on top for half the game but they were the better team in the second half -the reason I don;t think this will happen regularly is that no other team in the division will be able to bring on players such as they did -no-where near.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Rather than dismissing your optimism as misplaced, I'd like to hear why you think things will improve to such a degree as we wont get picked off in the second half of games.

That's a perfectly fair question .
From the games I've seen and from the match reports of those I haven't we seem to be consistently unable to maintain a good standard for the full 90+ minutes . The only explanation I can put forward is that inexperienced young players find it difficult to keep full concentration over an entire match - I don't believe the team is unfit this season BTW .

This must be a matter of some concern for all Saints fans .

[alpine_saint]

That's a perfectly fair question .
From the games I've seen and from the match reports of those I haven't we seem to be consistently unable to maintain a good standard for the full 90+ minutes . The only explanation I can put forward is that inexperienced young players find it difficult to keep full concentration over an entire match - I don't believe the team is unfit this season BTW .

This must be a matter of some concern for all Saints fans .

Hmmm. Apparently not, some feel its still an issue of "luck"

[AwaySaint1]

So if he hasn't paid his membership he's not a real fan like you? FFS! Even joining up as a full MEMBER to a fans' forum makes you a better fan now?

It was the comment that was in his post,no fool would pay £5 and then say something like that.
EFM I am not going to games this season because of the problems off the pitch,try and keep up.

[bungle]

alpine_saint is utterly pointless negative drivel non-shock.

I feel sorry for anyone that has ever had to talk to you in real life. Unless they punched you in the gob, then I'd buy them a pint.

[Micky]

Hmmm. Apparently not, some feel its still an issue of "luck"

Yep thats me - I think with a little more luck we may have got something out of the games. Of course I didn't say that was the only reason that we find ourselves with no points up to now, but if that is what you want to intimate in order to further your agenda - feel free to quote me.

[Lowestoft-Saint]

I am happy for them to be re-integrated, dont get me wrong.

But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season...

Maybe it will turn out for the best, but I wonder how JP feels ?


Alpine i sort of understand what you are saying but i think, the general idea was to have a pre season mainly using the players JP expected to be left with once the season got going.

The older established players that we may have been prepared to sell do not really need to be playing in the first team or in the shop window as such, they have been around long enough for other clubs to know all about them.

Any player that for what ever reason we can not sell on should be capable of slotting into our first team if and when needed.

As supporters i think all we can do is support the club,team and not have a far to greater expectancy of them this season, other than to hold thier own in this league this season, which they are capable of doing.

Yes dream of a takeover, but dont bank on one, just get behind Lowe/Wilde etc whilst they try to avoid Administration.

Obviously there will be things we wont like happening but, with support and understanding this club can overcome it.... IMO of course

[Micky]

Games last 90mins, not 30-35mins...

How long have you been a Saints fan for ?

Do the names "Wigley" and "Gray" mean nothing to you ?

Would never have known that first stat had you not been kind enough to point it out for me - but they actually normally last anything between 92 - 94 minutes if you want to be pedantic.

Only been a fan since 1968, so I'm probably going to have to bow to your undoubted better knowledge and judgement.

Wigley and Gray - yes they were past managers that didn't work out - so are you now suggesting that the current managerial team are from the same mould as Steve and Stuart. Whilst we may not of liked what happened with those two, the fact remained that they were actually part of the club, effectively we trained and groomed them for their managerial roles. Yes they failed but I do not see the link between them and the current managerial set up.

[alpine_saint]

Would never have known that first stat had you not been kind enough to point it out for me - but they actually normally last anything between 92 - 94 minutes if you want to be pedantic.

Only been a fan since 1968, so I'm probably going to have to bow to your undoubted better knowledge and judgement.

Wigley and Gray - yes they were past managers that didn't work out - so are you now suggesting that the current managerial team are from the same mould as Steve and Stuart. Whilst we may not of liked what happened with those two, the fact remained that they were actually part of the club, effectively we trained and groomed them for their managerial roles. Yes they failed but I do not see the link between them and the current managerial set up.


Are you sure you knew ? See, you've been so gushing about 30-35mins spurts, and can tell SO much about how the seasons going to pan out because of it, its not very clear, I'm afraid.

And if you cannot tell the similarities in managerial set-up between when Gray and Wigley were here, and now, than perhaps you really do need to bow to my better judgement.....

[Micky]

Are you sure you knew ? See, you've been so gushing about 30-35mins spurts, and can tell SO much about how the seasons going to pan out because of it, its not very clear, I'm afraid.

And if you cannot tell the similarities in managerial set-up between when Gray and Wigley were here, and now, than perhaps you really do need to bow to my better judgement.....

I've gushed about nothing - simply pointed out that in the two games we have played to date we have played well and done anything but bombed.

As for similarities between the Gray and Wigley era and now, I see none. They worked with our 'older pro' players, playing conventional systems, whilst the new team have worked with the kids on a completely different system of play. Only similarities thus far is that they coached footballers.

I think your argument is with Lowe - but he is here whether we like it or not. Yes he is probably pulling strings that should be left to management. But at the end of the day, he sees the bank balance sheet daily and has to make judgement on how to get the club 'back into the black'. If you can find a 'sugar daddy' ready to stump up a lump of cash then bring him on, personally I can't see it happening.

However, we as fans should be supporting the team - the boardroom problems hold little interest for me.

[alpine_saint]

However, we as fans should be supporting the team - the boardroom problems hold little interest for me.

The are not mutually exclusive, and you will never see the team sorted out while the boardroom is a bloody mess run by self-interested clowns

[Micky]

The are not mutually exclusive, and you will never see the team sorted out while the boardroom is a bloody mess run by self-interested clowns

Agreed they are not - but as fans we can either continue to vent our fury at the boardroom and management, or support the team on the field who up to now appear to be trying their hardest to get results - I know which I prefer to put my efforts into.

[NickG]

Games last 90mins, not 30-35mins...

How long have you been a Saints fan for ?

Do the names "Wigley" and "Gray" mean nothing to you ?

comfortably the best side for about 50 mins against best side in division on Saturday -then even for a bit before they came through on top -this is not about a few minutes of flash football but real quality starting to show

[itchen]

Strange kind of support that is: You're accepting almost certain death for the club (due to severe mismanagement) because you saw some attractive yet losing football?

I support the club, which is why I won't accept the current crud running the club, and will resist them with everything I've got. Many will call that "Fighting windmills". and it may well be, but I love my Saints and will never just stand by while they kill our club.

So could you explain what you are doing then? In what way are you not standing by? Are you leading a consortium to buy us out? Are you getting behind the team to encourage them to play us out of trouble?

I'm trying not to be provocative but exactly what are you doing differently to the rest of us to be prevent our club from being "killed"?

[OldNick]

Agreed they are not - but as fans we can either continue to vent our fury at the boardroom and management, or support the team on the field who up to now appear to be trying their hardest to get results - I know which I prefer to put my efforts into.Micky I first went in 68. Leeds home first home game of the season.
As for Alpine, entertainment or good football is of no use as Teletext only gets exciting when it refreshes. He spends all day working out what angle to have a dig at the club.He's a Fifth columnist and to be taken in the same way as Scooby but without any humour.

[Oxford Saint]

Hmm, maybe some of you on here would like Alpine doing the PR on the OS?

[GreenTreeFrog]

Then you were watching a different game in your armchair to those who attended SMS to view the 'performance'.

By all accounts it was anything but poor. Who knows, with a little luck we might have got something.

Not sure about your question, no idea what you are on about or what 'twice-already failed experiment' you are alluding to?

Micky,

Your comments on this thread are perfectly valid and with a bit of 'luck' things could have worked out better for saints.

Alpine says using bad luck as an excuse is poor form, and he is right if it is used for a team that regularly repeats the same mistakes, but we have had only TWO games so far and did well overall so that its not a relevant argument here. We always do poorly at Ninian Park yet were only a minute away from a well fought point with a team including 5 'debutants.'

Any reasonable person will understand that it will take time for the players to adapt to each others strengths and weaknesses and gain a better understanding of exactly what is required of them. When that happens the team will obviously improve and I doubt anyone can argue against that - but maybe Alpine will give it a go. ;)

[TopGun]

alpine_saint is utterly pointless negative drivel non-shock.

I feel sorry for anyone that has ever had to talk to you in real life. Unless they punched you in the gob, then I'd buy them a pint.

I know Alps. He's quite refreshing offline. At least he's not a woolly liberal who doesn't like cars for environmental reasons but likes speedway ;)

[Bon Call Night]

Rather than dismissing your optimism as misplaced, I'd like to hear why you think things will improve to such a degree as we wont get picked off in the second half of games.

How about we will not always be playing teams as good as Birmingham in this league?

How about we give the manager and players time to adjust to each other in real competitive games?

How about we may learn from some of our mistakes and not repeat them in future games?

How about you being constructive rather than dismissing every decision as wrong and every act as a failure?

You are probably the sort of person who spends his entire life weasling out of making a decision and complaining that those who have the balls to do so are always wrong.

[Bon Call Night]

That's a perfectly fair question .
From the games I've seen and from the match reports of those I haven't we seem to be consistently unable to maintain a good standard for the full 90+ minutes . The only explanation I can put forward is that inexperienced young players find it difficult to keep full concentration over an entire match - I don't believe the team is unfit this season BTW .

This must be a matter of some concern for all Saints fans .

Quite possibly but they might learn that it is necessary. It may also be a stamina thing and the pace being higher and the intensity being greater than they are used to.

Most of us will accept there will be weaknesses but it is all about whtehr progress is made by the majority of those that play - we know they can compete they need to do it for longer. So it is not a concern yet, but I see your point.

[JustMike]

I am happy for them to be re-integrated, dont get me wrong.

But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season...

Maybe it will turn out for the best, but I wonder how JP feels ?

i dont think we can blame JP at all. RL probably told him who he was trying to offload so naturally JP used what he had left. If both Euell and Rudi become available i hope we use them in this set up. Rudi wide left and euell in the centre will be good imo, also add a bit more experience

[Saint Bones]

...and all this for a reserve match ?????

[Wes Tender]

Agreed they are not - but as fans we can either continue to vent our fury at the boardroom and management, or support the team on the field who up to now appear to be trying their hardest to get results - I know which I prefer to put my efforts into.

Either - or? We can either vent our fury at the board or support the players? I wonder if you'd care to have a little think about it and explain to me why we can't do both?

You obviously only have enough energy or indeed imagination to do the one thing, whereas there are others capable of doing both.

[Jimmy_C]

Well apparently Skacel was injured during the reserve match according to the Official report and on cruthes, so why was he training yesterday with the full team?

[Jimmy_C]

Ignore above post

[Saint Without a Halo]

I am happy for them to be re-integrated, dont get me wrong.

But for me, it marks an end of everything Lowe and Jp were supposed to be trying to achieve, and a complete waste of pre-season...

Maybe it will turn out for the best, but I wonder how JP feels ?

Two games gone and I am for one am pleased that we are playing attractive football. A team full of youngsters most of whom have hardly played in front of crowd above 1500 and we almost hold and indeed at times outplay the favourites for promotion and a team that almost stayed up in the premiership!

I believe we need a bit of patience and the lads need some encouragement before we throw in the towel!

Anbyway what choice do we have it is really the youngsters or administration and a 15 point minimum deduction!

[Micky]

Either - or? We can either vent our fury at the board or support the players? I wonder if you'd care to have a little think about it and explain to me why we can't do both?

You obviously only have enough energy or indeed imagination to do the one thing, whereas there are others capable of doing both.

Good point well made. Possibly I do only have the energy to take an interest in the 'on field' side of supporting the club. If I use my 'imagination' I could become embroiled in the endless boardroom threads - but then, like many on here, my views would be borne of 'imagination' and very little fact.

Capable of both yes, but prefer to live in the real world, accept the club is currently in a sorry state that dictates a transitional period to try to get it on an even keel.