Saints Greatest XI - The Subs Bench

[St Landrew]

The final two weeks of Saints Greatest XI start with the Subs bench. I want 5 named substitutes for each team. For the purposes of having two full teams including a subs bench, they can't be players that are already in either team, but they can have been nominated before. So you need to nominate 10 players in total. It's an opportunity for those players who have missed it by a whisker, to come back into contention and be recognised. Please place out your lists like this:

A-Team
GK -
DF -
MF -
ST -
UP -

B-Team
GK -
DF -
MF -
ST -
UP -

So that's one goalkeeper, one defender, one midfielder, one striker, and one utility player for each team. Importantly, the utility player can be from any position on the pitch, if you like. He doesn't have to be, or have been, recognised as a utility player while playing for Saints. Geddit..?

As this is quite a lot of players to give a fair amount of thought to, this thread will close on friday night, next week. Please make the effort to name all players. I will not include partial efforts. I will count the players as individuals afterwards and we'll have two benches. Those players who have been named most times will end up on one of the benches. Of those that have been named most times, their destinations will be decided on whether they have been nominated for the A-Team or B-Team mostly.

I think you know the standard we are making our choices from by now, but I'll just reiterate. It's excellence, and nothing else. Not because they're an old mate of yours, or because you used to walk your dog with theirs, or they are some cult hero. If they are the best player, you can think of first, and a cult hero, and someone you used to walk your dog with, then OK. ;)

BTW, These threads and polls are not rigged and never have been, despite the odd lazy poster suggesting otherwise, but never directly asking me in a PM. Perhaps they might, and I'll give them some work to do.

[Thedelldays]

NICKY BANGER - super sub

[derry]

Tim Flowers Chris Nicholl Nick Holmes George O'Brien Jimmy Gabriel

Ian Black Alf Ramsey Cliff Huxford Charlie Wayman Peter Osgood

[jim_bergerac]

A-Team
GK - Tim Flowers
DF - Kevin Moore
MF - Jimmy Case
ST - David Puckett
UP - Andy Townsend

B-Team
GK - John Burridge
DF - Micky Adams
MF - Graeme Baker
ST - Paul Rideout
UP - James Beattie

[DarrenLeTiss]

A Team
GK Tim Flowers
DF Dean Richards
MF Anders Svensson
ST James BeattiE
UP Ronnie Ekelund

B
GK Kelvin Davis
DF Richard Hall
MF Glenn ****erill
ST Peter Crouch
UP Fabrice Fernandes

[St Landrew]

No thanks to TDD. As I said in the original post, a contribution such as his will be ignored [so why bother doing it TDD..?]. Thank you Derry. Thank you very much for reading, the two last posters. All future contributors, please lay out your player selections as the two posters immediately above have done. Just copy and paste my guide, and fill in your selections. Thanks.

DarrenLeTiss, I hope this agrees with what you had in mind.

[VectisSaint]

Serious question, where is the A and B team listed, so I can think about who to add? Sorry if its obvious, but its not to me.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

NICKY BANGER - super sub
but usually offside.

[St Landrew]

Serious question, where is the A and B team listed, so I can think about who to add? Sorry if its obvious, but its not to me.

Sorry Vectis. Good question. Here they are both:

A-Team

-------------------Shilton---------------------

Golac-------Wright--------Svensson-----Bridge

Paine---------Ball---------Le Tissier---Armstrong

------------Channon--------Davies-------------


B-Team

----------------------Niemi----------------------

Dodd------Lundekvam------Watson---------Dennis

D.Wallace----Williams---------Case--------Marsden

-------------Keegan--------Pahars---------------

Good teams, aren't they..?

[TijuanaTim]

Agboola-Mills-Holmes-Moran were all terrific players and lads that took us pretty close to an amazing double. They have to go in.
A-Team
GK - Kelvin (for what he's doing right now)
DF - Reuben Agboola
MF - Johnny Sydenham (legend)
ST - Martin Chivers
UP - Nick Holmes

B-Team
GK - Tim Flowers
DF - Mick Mills
MF - Jimmy Gabriel
ST - Steve Moran
UP - James Beattie

[rpb]

GK - Tim Flowers
DF - Chris Nichol
MF - Rod Wallace
ST - Martin Chivers
UP - Brian O'Neil

B-Team
GK - Ian Black
DF - John McGrath
MF - John Sydenham
ST - Alan Shearer
UP - Trevor Hebbard

So many players to choose from!

[saint_stevo]

A-Team
GK - Tim Flowers
DF - Jim Steele
MF - Glen ****erill
ST - Peter Osgood
UP - Ronnie Ekelund

B-Team
GK - Tim Flowers
DF - Ken Monkou
MF - Rod Wallace
ST - Alan Shearer
UP - Bobby Stokes

Harder than i thought!

[paulwantsapint]

A-Team
GK - Tim Flowers
DF - Super Kenny Monkou
MF -Nick Holmes
ST -Steve Moran
UP -Peter Osgood

Manager SIR EDRIC THORNTON ( TED ) BATES - Father ( GOD ) of Club - he built us

B-Team
GK - Paul Jones
DF -Fran Benali
MF -Matt Oakley
ST -James Beattie
UP -Ronnie Ekelund

Manager Lawrie Mac - God Father of club - made offers the players couldn't refuse

[St Landrew]

Managers next week mate, but I'll take the early booking. ;)

[krissyboy31]

I cant see how 5 players that couldn't get into the B team can be subs for the A team!

[teamsaint]

A-Team
GK - Flowers
DF - Mcgrath
MF -O'Neil
ST -Shearer
UP -Holmes

B-Team
GK - Martin
DF -Benali
MF - m Mills
ST -Rod Wallace
UP -Puckett) Just HAS to be on the bench!!

[mynameisthehulk]

A-Team
GK - Flowers
DF - Osman
MF - Horne
ST - Shearer
UP - Rod Wallace

B-Team
GK - Kelvin
DF - Ruddock
MF - Oakley
ST - Walcott
UP - Ekelund

[ExSt Peter Saint]

A Team
Flowers
Monkou
Rod Wallace
Shearer
Holmes

B Team
Davis
Agboola
****erill
Beattie
Ekelund

[VectisSaint]

A Team
Martin
McGrath
Peach
Holmes
Osgood

B Team
Flowers
Mills (Mick)
Steele
Stokes
Boyer

[Arizona]

A Team:
Flowers
Monkou
Ekelund
Moran
Beattie

B Team
Jones
Ruddock
Oakley
Shearer
Osgood

[Badger]

A-Team


Manager SIR EDRIC THORNTON ( TED ) BATES - Father ( GOD ) of Club - he built us

B-Team
Manager Lawrie Mac - God Father of club - made offers the players couldn't refuse

Good summary of the two of them.

[sandwichsaint]

Have to think the B team might struggle with corners!

Attacking and defending!

[St Landrew]

Have to think the B team might struggle with corners!

Attacking and defending!

I take it that was a jest..?

[Rational Rich]

David Puckett is the ultimate Saints sub. Always number 12.

Other than that, I remember a period in the late 80s when Shearer and Ruddock were always on the bench, both pretty useful, so I'll go with them.

[Rational Rich]

A Team:
Flowers
Monkou
Ekelund
Moran
Beattie

B Team
Jones
Ruddock
Oakley
Shearer
Osgood

Apart from Jones (surely you must mean another Jones other than Paul) I can't think of two better benches.

Paul Jones was an excellent shot stopper but the rest of his game was suspect. Dave Jones should've stuck with Maik Taylor (nice topical debate there).

How about Budgie instead, even if only for the gymnastic warm ups and excellent professional fouls (in the days when all you got was a yellow)

[Papa Shango]

A-Team

Flowers
Monkou
Ekelund
Beattie
Shearer

B-Team

Jones
Richards
Belmadi
Camara
Walcott

[sandwichsaint]

I take it that was a jest..?

Straight up, this team would struggle with attacking and defending corners.

B-Team

----------------------Niemi----------------------

Dodd------Lundekvam------Watson---------Dennis

D.Wallace----Williams---------Case--------Marsden

-------------Keegan--------Pahars---------------

Defensively Watson and Lundekvam are well up for it, who is there after that?

Attacking-wise this must be the shortest front six (according to their heights on Wiki) ever assembled in top-flight fantasy football?

Keegan at 5'8'' was more than decent in the air.
Pahars at 5'9'', can't remember him scoring too many headers?
Wallace at 5'5'', size isn't everything.
Williams at 5'11' but not known for his heading.
Case was another at 5'9'' great tackling, great engine, great passing and shooting.
That leaves CMFG at c5'11'; I can't remember ever seeing him head a ball anywhere on the pitch, let alone head one into the goal?

Watson was a useful option attacking-wise but for all the literally '00's of corners he lumbered upfield for how many did Santa score, and how many assists did he provide?

A great footballing side f'sure but I'm not sure how practical that selection would be in the modern game?

IMO a Keegan/Beattie combo would probably outscore a Keegan/Pahars pairing over a range of situations and oppositions.

[St Landrew]

Straight up, this team would struggle with attacking and defending corners.

B-Team

----------------------Niemi----------------------

Dodd------Lundekvam------Watson---------Dennis

D.Wallace----Williams---------Case--------Marsden

-------------Keegan--------Pahars---------------

Defensively Watson and Lundekvam are well up for it, who is there after that?

Attacking-wise this must be the shortest front six (according to their heights on Wiki) ever assembled in top-flight fantasy football?

Keegan at 5'8'' was more than decent in the air.
Pahars at 5'9'', can't remember him scoring too many headers?
Wallace at 5'5'', size isn't everything.
Williams at 5'11' but not known for his heading.
Case was another at 5'9'' great tackling, great engine, great passing and shooting.
That leaves CMFG at c5'11'; I can't remember ever seeing him head a ball anywhere on the pitch, let alone head one into the goal?

Watson was a useful option attacking-wise but for all the literally '00's of corners he lumbered upfield for how many did Santa score, and how many assists did he provide?

A great footballing side f'sure but I'm not sure how practical that selection would be in the modern game?

IMO a Keegan/Beattie combo would probably outscore a Keegan/Pahars pairing over a range of situations and oppositions.

Well perhaps you'll change your mind when you see the B-Team's subs bench. BTW, I see you haven't made your sub's bench selections yet..? You could help bolster the height of the forward line..! Perhaps Paul Rideout ought to be a selection for you..?

P.S. Height never seemed to bother Keegan and Steve Moran in the early 80s. They went together like bread and butter, and scored for fun.

[St Landrew]

I've been trying to decide my subs since early today, what with nothing else to do but look at the snow. Every time I think I've settled on my selections, I think of another player, and it upsets the whole applecart.

Who thought of this stupid selection method anyway..? ;)

[teamsaint]

I've been trying to decide my subs since early today, what with nothing else to do but look at the snow. Every time I think I've settled on my selections, I think of another player, and it upsets the whole applecart.

Who thought of this stupid selection method anyway..? ;)

you are george Burley or jan poortvliet , and I claim my £5.

[alexdawkins]

the strikers for A team pretty much picked themselves, but i can't believe keegan and pahars(!) got into the B team ahead of the likes of martin chivers, derek reeves and george o'brien. keegan was only here for 2 years but did score 37 goals, and pahars only 43 in 7 years. chivers scored 106 in 190 games, reeves 173 in 311, and o'brien 180 in 281.

[St Landrew]

the strikers for A team pretty much picked themselves, but i can't believe keegan and pahars(!) got into the B team ahead of the likes of martin chivers, derek reeves and george o'brien. keegan was only here for 2 years but did score 37 goals, and pahars only 43 in 7 years. chivers scored 106 in 190 games, reeves 173 in 311, and o'brien 180 in 281.

Thing is, this is voting from people's memory. For me, although I rate the players, I find it astonishing that players like Chris Marsden and Marian Pahars get anywhere near the best teams. But this is a fan's vote. I have stipulated, time and time again, that quality is paramount in this vote. But some people don't trust the reputation of footballers they haven't seen, and perhaps rightly so. But if that is the case, how come Mick Channon and Ron Davies made it to the first team in a cakewalk. One would have to put Martin Chivers in with them, in terms of quality. Reeves and O'Brien, largely did their business in lower divisions, but their stats speak for themselves. If they had done them all in the first division, both would have been big contenders. As it stands, they were often nominated.

Just shows there have been no fix, unless voters have organised themselves, at times.

[saint_stevo]

Ekelund barely played for the saints, yet he is in a few selections!

what was it, a total of 15 games?

[St Landrew]

Ekelund barely played for the saints, yet he is in a few selections!

what was it, a total of 15 games?

Yes, but Ronnie was quality, in team that had a dearth of it, apart from Matty. Saying that, it would be odd if he made it into both best first elevens.

[teamsaint]

Thing is, this is voting from people's memory. For me, although I rate the players, I find it astonishing that players like Chris Marsden and Marian Pahars get anywhere near the best teams. But this is a fan's vote. I have stipulated, time and time again, that quality is paramount in this vote. But some people don't trust the reputation of footballers they haven't seen, and perhaps rightly so. But if that is the case, how come Mick Channon and Ron Davies made it to the first team in a cakewalk. One would have to put Martin Chivers in with them, in terms of quality. Reeves and O'Brien, largely did their business in lower divisions, but their stats speak for themselves. If they had done them all in the first division, both would have been big contenders. As it stands, they were often nominated.

Just shows there have been no fix, unless voters have organised themselves, at times.

reputation certainly counts for a lot. Even if you never saw Channon play, (and he possibly wasn't one of the two most talented strikers we have ever had) his record playing for us almost demands a vote. No other stiker has come near his goal tally or number of England caps while at the club.

[Leicestersaint]

Shouldn't Hugh Fisher be there somewhere?

[rpb]

Shouldn't Hugh Fisher be there somewhere?

Not really, he was often a substitute himself.

[Hatch]

Pele, Best , Moore and Charlton.

[Thedelldays]

frankie bennett

[Mustapha Fag]

GK - Flowers
D - McGrath
MF - O'Neil
F - Chivers
U - Rod. Wallace

Gk - Martin
D - Peach
MF - G. Baker
F - Boyer
U - Moran

[Leicestersaint]

Not really, he was often a substitute himself.

Yes but he was a very good sub - good tackler, good distribution, and scored a fair number of goals. Wasn't it because of Fisher's late equaliser against Villa at home that we won the Cup in 1976?

[rpb]

Yes but he was a very good sub - good tackler, good distribution, and scored a fair number of goals. Wasn't it because of Fisher's late equaliser against Villa at home that we won the Cup in 1976?

Hugh Fisher was a very good player - skillful and combative; I don't think that he figures as an all time great though as he wasn't necessarily an automatic selection for the team that he played in.

[Under Weststand]

A-Team Subs
GK:- Tim Flowers
DF:- Chris Nichol
MF:- Jimmy Case
F :- Steve Moran
UP:- Nick Holmes - Just has to be in, he was a great heart & soul player for us & a player you always missed when out.

B-Team Subs
GK:- Peter Wells
DF:- David Peach (He just has to be in somwhere)
MF:- Rod Wallace
FW:- Marian Pahars
UP :- Tony (super sub) Funnell

That was more dificult than I thought it would be, there are a lot of great players picked by everyone & still a load left out.

[Minsk]

A-Team
GK - Tim Flowers - I always preferred him to Shilton
DF - Mick Mills - Could, and did, play anywhere along the back 4
MF - Rod Wallace - Pace, skill and scored great goals
ST - Steve Moran - offers something different to Mick and Ron
UP - Nick Holmes - The 'original' utility player, and a true Saint

B-Team
GK - Ivan 'The Kat' Katalinic - this was my hardest place to fill
DF - David Peach - for when Mark Dennis is suspended (and penalties)
MF - Graham Baker - I was 'gutted' when he left Saints
ST - Alan Shearer - if only for debut hat-trick against the Arse
UP - Reuben Agboola - a very underated player

[krissyboy31]

A-Team
GK - Tim Flowers
DF - Mick Mills
MF - Theo Walcott
ST - Steve Moran
UP - Nick Holmes

B-Team
GK - Bruce Grobbelaar
DF - Chris Nicholl
MF - Jim Magilton
ST - Martin Chivers
UP - Steve Mills

[St Landrew]

Appreciate the effort people are making. It is hard to pick 5 outstanding players for each team. But one or two posters are selecting players who are already in the A and B team line-ups, and therefore can't be on the bench. Please check before you post.

Cheers.

[stknowle]

Straight up, this team would struggle with attacking and defending corners.

B-Team

----------------------Niemi----------------------

Dodd------Lundekvam------Watson---------Dennis

D.Wallace----Williams---------Case--------Marsden

-------------Keegan--------Pahars---------------

Defensively Watson and Lundekvam are well up for it, who is there after that?

Attacking-wise this must be the shortest front six (according to their heights on Wiki) ever assembled in top-flight fantasy football?

Keegan at 5'8'' was more than decent in the air.
Pahars at 5'9'', can't remember him scoring too many headers?
Wallace at 5'5'', size isn't everything.
Williams at 5'11' but not known for his heading.
Case was another at 5'9'' great tackling, great engine, great passing and shooting.
That leaves CMFG at c5'11'; I can't remember ever seeing him head a ball anywhere on the pitch, let alone head one into the goal?

Watson was a useful option attacking-wise but for all the literally '00's of corners he lumbered upfield for how many did Santa score, and how many assists did he provide?

A great footballing side f'sure but I'm not sure how practical that selection would be in the modern game?

IMO a Keegan/Beattie combo would probably outscore a Keegan/Pahars pairing over a range of situations and oppositions.

Sandwich Saint surely you don't carry data re the heights of former saints players in your head. Tell me you had to research that, please.
A question for you - I met a Saints fan in my local in Faversham the day we lost 4-0 to Chelsea (approx 5 years ago) who was on his way home from the match and described for me how Crainie scored a peach of an own goal (bullet header from corner) on what I think was his debut. That man told me he came from Sandwich. I can't believe Sandwich contains many Southampton fans. Was that man you Sandwich Saint?

[St Landrew]

This thread is now ended. I've finally added them all up [what a bloody struggle that turned out to be], and now I have sore neck and shoulders, and my eyes are like p!ssholes in the snow, because they got tired before I found my specs. As you know, there were loads of players chosen, and it was my task to sort them out. Luckily, there were very few problem with same numbers, and so there was in the way of counting back, so to speak, in order to get a result. So the Subs benches sit like this:

A-Team

GK: Tim Flowers
DF: Ken Monkou
MF: Rod Wallace
ST: Steve Moran
UP: Nick Holmes

B-Team

GK: Kelvin Davis
DF: Mick Mills
MF: Ronnie Ekelund
ST: Alan Shearer
UP: Peter Osgood

There's some quality here to compliment each starting XI, and I think they fit in quite well too. Some slight personal disappointments for me, in David Peach and Martin Chivers missing out. James Beattie came very close, and would have been worthy of a place. John Sydenham came in the middle of the pack, but he was surrounded by newer memories. Notable complete absentees include Kevin Phillips [surely you don't all hate him that much], FA Cup Final winning skipper Peter Rodrigues, Derek Reeves, Kevin Davies, Tom Jenkins, etc.. But it was nice to see players like Brian O'Neil, Glenn Co ckerill, and Paul Rideout getting a mention.

Overall It's been fun for me, and I hope it's been fun and entertaining for you. Coming up is the last week and now it's time to decide the manager for each team. I've a feeling this is going to be a close finish, and it might turn out to be the most controversial poll of the lot. Nominations in the next thread please.