Frank's cousin

Er NO. you are getting a little confused in your old age - On that particular stadium debate, my only point was that cheaper tickets = higher attendance, and that it would be possible to have more flexibility on pricing if capacity were higher.. for some odd reason some took issue and made up a load of ******... but tehn that is pretty typical of this place at times.

From what I have read on BBC site and VWs, its not CO2 that is the issue - CO2 emissions are lower with diesels and are not influenced by this software. The software looks to run the engine to minimize Nitrogen oxide (not to be confused with Nitrogen dioxide) emissions which are not an issue in the EU, but are in the US (despite their clean air act ingnoring any ****e that diesel trucks spew out as its only applicable to cars). Its likely that those in the EU fitted with this software had not even had it activated. Seems to be the 2 ltr TDI that is most affected... my V6 3ltr is fine apparently! I don't really have any info on how bad/harmful NO is to atmosphere, but also read that many EU manufacturers are struggling to meet latest EU wide emissions levels for diesels.

Sorry, but when will this be finally put to bed. Yes it would be hideous to have an injury wreck a career, no argument there. BUT why are footballers different form anybody else? This whole 'its a short career' rubbish really gets me wound up, as what is to stop a footballer getting ANOTHER job/career when football is over? most below the prem will have to and the top players used to... why is it that they are all of a sudden work shy after 35? Many folk have to change careers through no fault of their own, relearn/train/ go back to college etc. Why not footballers? Its not like they don't have to complete normal education, so if football no longer becomes an option, they should look at something else.. The 'its a short career' should be replaced by the truth which is ''I don't want to have to work after I retire from football so want to urn as much cash as I can now'' - at least it would be more honest. I have every sympathy for any player that has his playing career cut short through injury. BUT I have no sympathy with the attitude that don't expect to work again...

True he is good at what he does... but its the fact we play a system that includes 'what he does' or even 'needs what he does' is why IMHO we wont get close to winning a thing. In a way the fact that for the last few qualifying groups have been relatively straight forward, just masks the true level we are at. Yet the media/nation will act surprised when/if we don't do so well in the actual tournament. I predict we win a couple of the friendlies against Spain, France and Germany and we become self proclaimed favourites (despite those sides probably fielding younger probables)..only to then get beat when its for real. We don't even have the passion of a side like the Scots, who despite being so clearly outclassed by the Germans the other night, gave it a good go... Looked to me like the Germans could have upped it even more, yet some of their pass and move up front was scarily good... As for Rooney? Cant take away he has scored 50 goals, but given our early tournament exists and so many score in qualifying against lesser teams, I cant see him as the best by long shot. He is just such an unpleasent a character who loves grannies, so easy to dislike which does not help, but think you need to score more in tournaments and at top end to be considered the best.

Is its just me or could young VVD be Khal Drogo's younger brother? I think we should be told!

This has always been a challenge when trying to debate these issues... for some unknown reason, grown men who should really know better become bitter and twisted and filled with a rather irrational hatred for folks who 'mess with their club'...'perspective' seems lost on some folks. There is a complete lack of self awareness (or any hint of seeing the irony) in some who love to ridicule those down the road for their 'portsmyths', yet feel totally justified in pedaling equally spurious urban myth about Lowe... with a passionate vitriol that is more appropriate for child murderers... perspective... The club is struggling to hold on to and attract the quality of player that will see us maintain and potentially build on what we achieved last season. Some of reasons for this are beyond the club control, others are probably in error, but worst would be if its some sort of strategy - a belief that its possible to build and grow each year by making profits on player sales in the hope that cheaper 'undiscovered' talent + our 'amazing conveyor belt' of youth will overcome the annual disruption and a rebuild will be an effective way forward to challenge for top 6/8 and eventually be in the CL.... afterall that is what Ralph has said is our aim... 'it has not changed'. The parallel to Lowe's time is that he said the same thing, then as now there was a real disconnect between what is said, and the actions that simply wont be able to support it. All we expect as fans is a bit of honesty, and maybe if very lucky a little transparency as to what the real strategy is and why - most (well I live in hope) are mature enough to accept that. The fact that the conditions created by the Premier League have in effect now prevented or reduced the level of competition is not the club's fault, but they should at least be able to give us a truthful view of our real ambitions, no matter that it will probably just add to the feeling that its no longer really that interesting participating in a league where there is 0% chance of ever winning the thing...ever.

Fair and balance IMHO. It was not my intention to start a debate about Lowe v others, but to pose the question that historically, when money form transfers has not all been reinvested, this has led to a lot of negativity aimed at the board - and indeed many believed it was the main reason for relegation in 2005 and complained that we had failed to capitalize on the 8th place finish in 2003... with Lowe at the saying he wanted to compete in Europe - which sounds rather familiar when we hear Ralph speak. I have no problem if our financial woes and time in the lower leagues have tempered fans expectations, and that more are now happy with a 'living within our means' plan - its sad that this is not enough to be competitive, but is fair and sensible. My only issue is that at present we do not seem to be reinvesting the monies from sales - it would appear its being used to repay loans etc - fair enough, but that implies that apart form the initial 30 mil transfer that her father invested, there has been no more investment form the owner. Again I don't have a problem with that either as its not expected that someone 'donates' cash to the club, but fans then need to stop suggesting the current owners are investing anymore than the previous ones.... again we know nothing for sure because there is no need for full publication of accounts s there was under PLC status. ... what i would like to know is, that if the income from transfers is not being reinvested, is it needed to fund operations? If so it would suggest we are not self sustaining - in addition, Les needs to see that what happened last season was NOT without a huge dose of luck and without replacing quality with quality and stopping this annual wholesale, several things happen: we will stop progressing, we will erode the confidence of players in our ambition (more will want to leave), we wont be able to attract quality, we may well get relegated...This is not some bed wetting nonsense, but an observation/opinion. TBH, i am not sure I even care that much anymore as playing in a league where the result is a foregone conclusion and you are playing for scraps, without any chance of progression is not really that interesting anymore... never thought i would say that.

We were a stable self sustaining prem club for several years under his watch and whatever feck ups happened with Stoneham, we still moved to a new stadium under his watch... far form perfect, sure he was arrogant, but who cares... ML put in 30 mil - that was eventually converted to equity an investment that is now worth 100mil+ the more recent cash injections have been loans as far as I can tell, although no idea if they have been paid back or still remain as 'debts' so be careful when talking of 'putting in pennies' - Rupes never promised he was bringing any monies... again devils advocate, how is the current situation on a purely sporting/operational level, any different from back then? Especially given that by being a PLC the accounts were full published and it was clear the club was breaking even - in effect monies from sales were reinvested in higher wages and new players, albeit bloated journeymen...? Yes we MUST be grateful to Markus for all he did for the club, and yes we must be grateful to KL for her continued support of her fathers investment...BUT if we continue to follow this model of sales without similar quality or better coming back in, then we cant complain if we go down... its happened before to us and others. On a purely business/sporting perspective, forgetting the personalities involved... not sure we are in a good place right now.

To play devil's advocate a second... some of us remember the vocal majority calling a certain R Lowe all sorts of things for assuming we had done that - selling assets and not reinvesting the cash from players sales... when in the prem, in effect suggesting it was this lack of investment back in 2003/4 following the 8th place finish that led to our relegation 24 months later. Can someone far more enlightened, educated, visionary, whatever than me please explain how the current situation is any different, and why we don't have the screaming hoards demanding RK(ueger) and KL ''spend some f***ing money'' as we had back then? I am happy for the club to be self sustaining, and that annual revenues should covers wages, overheads and operating costs, with player sales cash being used for new players - If we are selling players and to balance books, that is NOT self sustaining, and given the current levels of prem TV revenue, if its costing more than 100 mil a year to run the club and pay wages, then someone is seriously fecking things up. Why no 'Duck off'? Or does that only apply to posh people?

Ultimately whatever the stated aims and ambitions, he old cliche always comes back 'its a results business' - and there will no doubt be plenty of pundits who were left with egg on face last season after predicting our demise as a result of selling 5 first teamers, who will now be be getting ready to retract and rewrite their personal histories and say 'I told you so' IMHO, logic does suggest that when you revamp a side so completely, we should have struggled last season - but through a bit of luck and perhaps a bit of extra fight + Ronald's astute style, we took many by surprise at the start of the season. Second half was acceptable, but no where near as good as we were sussed out, and injuries took their toll... Whether a club of our size can or should hold on to players is a separate debate. But for me its clear that we are probably not going to get as lucky this time with a policy that when it works is seen as a 'brilliant bit of business' and when it does not as 'the road to relegation'. What Ronald thinks or feels about not being able to build longer term, we do not know, but I do think its a little too easy for Ralph K and Les to state how we build using youth integration, when we have a decent crop, and a lot harder to implement if the cupboard is a little drier/we have sold them all (which will happen to the very best academies). All depends on what we expect/want. Personally, I would like to see a little more evolution and less what seems like revolution of the playing squad - and for me that is where Ralph and Les seem unable to make the reality match their more words. Knowing/planning a replacement for Koeman, may well be a necessary thing come the end of the season... whether we can again attract anyone of that calibre against a backdrop of annual sales is another matter... Think we are in for a tough season.

Agree we dont have a bad business model, but surely the point is that whilst its good business, its not great for the the sport.

So everyone wants to leave? ;-)

We don't particularly see eye to eye on most things, but would not wish that on anyone - was hit by a car in 2003 at 30mph... fractured elbow, fecked wheels and need for a new helmet... and arse hanging out of a rather expensive pair bib shorts which was interesting sat in casulty. Stay safe.

Cheers Whitey, interesting stuff. From my limited accounting knowledge, it would appear as if we are in great financial health right now and that despite Gareth Rogers talking of 'legacy' debt, surely if the value of the asset has increased to where we are now, its not a bad thing? As NET, KL mill be quids in. Its why it always surprised me when Mat Le Tiss IMHO rather disingenuously, criticized Cortese as 'being good at spending other peoples money' - if Cortese had spent 30 mil and not increased the value of the asset then fair enough, fire away, (as we have seen ther are many examples of spending millions and achieving nothing) but given how the spending 'worked' and increased the value of the Liebherr's asset by probably 300%, I am sure Matt wishes he had seen those kind of returns on his own business ventures?

Question to those that know about these things.... which if an, of our sales and purchases would have been full amount upfront versus spread over number of years? If spread over a number of years and each deal is different, how does this play out in the annual accounts? It would seem 'normal' that only receipts and payments due in that year would be included and NOT the full amount of the deals? This makes a big difference to what is read into the 'accounts' as I understand that its noraml to right off the cost of a player purchase over the years of his contract? This would also account for why club have stated that the additional 20 mil loaned by Kat during 2013/2014 was to aid 'cashflow', rather than an amount to cover additional overspend? Interested to know what is the correct accounting process here, rather than more speculation.... Its like the time the BBC made a headline out of us 'owing' 27mil in transfer fees, when this was the balances due over a subsequent years. As to whether Kat knew of the the Cortese loans... It would be just as easy to assume that his contract/role gave him that permission... If not, would have expected a 'gross misconduct charge or something? Its clear Kat wanted to change to a 'board' based decision making process and Corteses did not want this more democratic approach, a bit of fall out so he buggered off/resigned, but not sure there was anything 'wrong' in his taking out loans... even if courtesy may have suggested he offer a more open communication withe the owner. Interesting as well that NC was heavily criticised for the 'overspend' on Staplewood development, yet Kat and the new board committed to even further spending and development on top of this, expanding the facilities further. Again, from a more neutral perspective, it seems we probably payed more than we needed to because of design and additional changes to the plans after work had started, but I have no issue with that additional spend given the quality of the facilities we end up - 38mil may seem a lot, but its 8mil less than we received for Shaw and Chambers... so value is another thing. KL has been great, happy to state that for the record and I am pleased because it continues Markus' legacy. But we should at least acknowledge that her 'investment' has as far as we know only been the 30mil that was converted to equity and included Markus' original 12-13mil to pay off the debts and take the club on. The rest has been loans, and through the current and precious leadership that 30mil is probably worth over 100mil-130mil today. Not a bad return really for 7 years.