How much longer do we have to wait and see.
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is dyer ever going be any good
How much longer do we have to wait and see.
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Thought he was very poor last night. I wish we had cashed in on him but know one else seems interested in him.
His game is so easy to read, the number of times he tries to cut inside and runs into two players waiting for him. The one and only time he took his man on on the outside and crossed the ball, we created a chance. But he doesn't have the intelligence to try it again. His shot into row Z at the start of the second half just about sums him up.
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Is that the shot that just went over the bas on OS?Originally Posted by slickmick
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Q: Is dyer ever going be any good?
A: No
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No mental tenacity and no intelligence either. Not a good combination.
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A bit harsh, but probably spot on.
Cant help but think that when he does something right its that odd decision that he's bound to make occasionally on the law of averages.
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He frustrated the hell out of me in the QPR and Ipswich games.
He seems physically scared of taking on a defender, so he cuts inside - usually into trouble. This costs us the width we have to maintain in order to play to our strengths. If he took guys on he'd certainly get hacked, but when was the last time he got whacked and his marker got booked? That says everything, really.
I was livid that the two-on-one down the Ipswich right that lead to the equalizer came because Dyer, with all his pace, didn't track back quickly enough.
He lacks balls and I fear he lacks brains. I'm not sure what coaching can do about that.
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You spotted that then, he races back, then doesn't get goal side of Surman, so no cover. The so called coaching really hasn't happened for me. These are things that should have been ingrained from the beginning of their time here.
It's the dribbling thing that is forcing him inside on his good foot, he needs to belt the ball past the defender and run wide. His pace would then drag defenders out to try and cover. A bit like Syddy trying to play like Terry, which of course he didnt do, just belted it 20 yds and ran for the corner, of course the defenders will try and get across, but it causes
chaos when it works.
McGoldrick was the same, played allegedly wide, wandered inside and all over, everywhere except wide. So our passing options were reduced and our shape was lobsided.
Last edited by derry; 20-09-2008 at 09:58 AM.
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Awful last night. Ok he was playing on the left & not on his favored side but he didn't even attempt to take the ball to the by line, everytime cutting inside. Their right back was having a field day.
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This is not an easy question, which requires a full in-depth and well reasoned answer. So here is my attempt...
Q: Is Dyer ever going to be any good.
A: Dyer is sh1t
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what have we seen to suggest he is getting any better? If he was going to be that special should it be showing by now?
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The "shot" at the start of the second half, right in the middle of goal and under very little pressure summed him up for me.
Will he be any good ?
No.
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He's got ability but no brains. He needs a coach to teach him a lot of very basic things.
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Not enough coaches at Southampton then?
For me he does not have the footballers brain for wing play and should be used as an impact player near the end of games. Maybe it is too late to turn his game around. Loaning out to lower league team might help but in very few cases other than for confidence.
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I don't know about the coaches at Southampton. They've gotten some good results with other players but Dyer seems to play like a 12-year old at times. Maybe the coaches just didn't get to him, maybe he didn't want to learn because it was all to easy for him in the youth leagues. I really don't know. He just makes a lot of basic mistakes and doesn't seem to know what to do when running at players. Against blackpool he must have ran straight at the defender about 5 times without even trying to pass they guy.
I agree about the impact player, he can really cause damage when the game is stretched.
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Time for JP or another to make some hard decisions.
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Leave a woman's bag on the byeline, and point him in that direction.
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He's like Kieron Dyer or McMananman was.
All well and good running 22 yards and looking quick. But if you do F*** all with it what, really, is the point?
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Both England internationals with Mcmanaman gettin a motm award after winning the Champions League?
Dyer is alot of things but nothing like the two players you have just mentioned
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When did McManaman win the Champs Lge? With Madrid? He was never in their first team was he?
The standard may have been a touch better but the principle applys. What do they do? I remember McManaman scoring a goal v Celtic once for Liverpool when he ran from the half way line (thou no tackles were made). But he was toss for England and Liverpool were poor when he played, the odd fa cup final appearnace was about it.
If you want an example of a decent winger, someone that does something productive, look at Giggs.
It grates me that players like McMananman get praised cos i rarely saw what they bought to a football match. The odd jink past someone means nothing if they can't pass, can't cross, can't tackle and don't score.
And Dyer, albeit in the CCC, is the same.
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Marseilles?
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certainly not at Marseille,never played there (Chris Waddle did) CL winner Madrid 2000+2002 don't know if he played both finals though.
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Yep, in the final against Valencia. He ran the show that match and scored a goal (was in the opener or the second?). Anyway, he really ran the show for Madrid that day. I'm not sure you can compare him to Dyer at all.
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He has one thing the rest of our team do not - raw pace. If you watch a game, even if he plays poorly, opposing defenses drop back or double up on him which should give the rest of the team more room to play. The actual issue is that we are not good enough to take advantage of this. He changed the game when he came on against QPR because of this. If our coaches cannot get the most out of him then they arn't very good - we've been here before when we all slagged him off, he went to Burnley who used him properly and he was one of their best players, and we all moaned, then he came back and was used inappropriatly again.
What's more interesting is that with Schneiderlin and Holmes not playing we lose our only effective weapon - which is the long ball from the half way line to the left touchline where Holmes sits. Need a plan B
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I've been saying this season, after season about Dyer. There are plenty of footballers around who are skilled with their feet, but not between the ears. The Kieron Dyer/Steve McManaman analogy is very good. Both these players are/were very skilled, yet they never really rise/rose above the mundane due to their inabilty to be unpredictable, and deliver the simple move at the right time. Nathan needs a chat with Matt Le Tiss on how to do the right thing when required. If MLT's advice could be assimilated by the lad, it could be pure gold.
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i can t believe some are comparing him to macmanaman..lol
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Nobody is comparing Dyer to Steve McManaman. The latter was far and away the better player. But they share some of the same characteristics that stop[ped] them from being better players. Be careful to fully understand what you are reading before you quickly step in to mock.
Banned
macmanaman better?
sure he never won the ballon d'or but, he did win honours in england, spain and won (and starred with a goal) in a CL final with the biggest and most succesful club on the planet...
thanks for the patronising last bit
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it's just because he looks like him...
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dyer's ok but needs to be stronger on the ball and better passer
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I'm not one for slating players in general but he was really poor last night...
Makes me appreciate Holmes all the more...Skacel would be a much better replacement on that side...
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Dyer will become an excellent player.
All we have to do is sell him [or give him away?].
Then when they play us, he should be in the starting line up.
Guarantee he'll get a hattrick then
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He has improved since he started. Still remember him giving the ball away to allow Reading to score a couple of years ago. At that time he was a rabbit in the headlights. But now at least he has some "presence". I just don't think he's good enough for the first team yet... perhaps in time?
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I just dont get what he is being coached???? Does he train to run with the ball at his feet? If so then surly someone has realised he cant do it that well????
With bags of pace a simple 1-2 would put him through running onto the ball at the by-line. Or being fouled off the ball which would leave there defender with a yellow card.
Its not rocket science yet week in week out he runs over the ball/into players/puts the ball out/cuts inside to no-where and so on. rarly do we see him get past his man with the ball and when we do he doesnt have allot of time to do anything with it which just ends up in another chance wasted.
A simple pass and timed run would turn the opo defence and create a hatfull of chances for us. If he just started doing that I would be singing his praises but instead he has got a place in the team because he has played more matches than some of the yourth and therefor is one of our experienced heads!!!
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He is not that quick if he dribbles and can be caught. There were times last night before the full back got cover, if he had just knocked it 10 yds past the defender and run him, he would have drawn the defenders across and opened Ipswich up.
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That is pretty much what I am tying to say. Simple ball for him to run onto weather it be by him or someone else would turn there defence and cause them problems. They would either have to foul him, concede a corner or defend deeper. All of which is not what they would have been told pre game and it would put our team into the positions where we can hurt them.
And all of this is from 1 player playing smart FFS. Im sure we could pick a few holes in many of the other players but for me this is the 1 area that could make a huge difference to how each game is played. Them on the back foot means less attacks which means the less Surman and James get exposed. Its a huge chain reaction that just needs someone to tell the idiot what to do to start it all off!
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Dyer clearly relied on his pace in the youth team but that is not enough at this level. I'm not going to write him off just yet. Playing a totally one footed player on the wrong wing is always going to force him inside. I doubt he could kick the ball 50 yards with his left foot if he tried. I don't think there is a player in the league with less strength.
The formation (which I think causes us problems) is ideal for him and he florished at Burnley when asked to play as a winger. But he needs to be on the right. McGolrick and John are a total waste of space at right midfield so get Dyer in the right position.
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forever he's **** always has been, why did we even give him a new contract!?
No he hasn't
He was probably our best player last season until he got injured away at Leicester in December.
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Dyer:
- can't shoot
- can't cross
- falls over when he dribbles
- can't tackle
- can't pass
- is a burglar (not strictly relevant but....)
I'm hoping he'll come good soon.
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Methinks a simple NO would suffice here.
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Either Dyer is pretty poor or the coaches are!!!!!! I would like to ask the question which it is, or is it both. Looking at the coaches - yes we are playing attractive football almost every game for half an hour and then that's us bushed! We get bossed after that. We are not defensively minded enough, we are not squeezing the pitch, our midfield is to advanced time and time again - how many times before a coach realises that we need a player or even two to 'sit'. It is evident that Gillett will not make it at this level too which is not helping. His successfull pass rate is very poor and to be fair always has been having watched him many times playing for the reserves it's very familiar. I ask how it is that this has not been coached out of him over such a long period?
Evidence is starting to emerge that coaching is lacking. Attention to detail is just not not being focused on. It is critical to be certain that every player is coached and that positional play is adhered to.
We are now short on the left with Holmes injured so it's time move Surman up to midfield and bring some experience into the left back position with Skacel, this is the obvious time to revert to this combination. Whilst I love this style of football if it's not totally organised and cant last more than 30 minutes then management/coaching should start to take some blame..........
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He was our best player last season before he got injured. he has been out of the team a while and needs a run in the side.
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If you've only seen him in the first team then I can understand why everyone thinks he's fast and nothing else. But in the U18s he always looked like he had tons of skill and players often just couldn't get near him when he was on the ball.
Watching him at QPR his control was OK on receiving but almost every time he went to beat a man he looked like he had lost the ball - before somehow winning it back again, a weird player to watch.
Well he isn't great now, but
- Opposing teams obviously don't like playing against him
- As soon as he is on the pitch, they re-organise and have to double-up to try and cope with his speed
- Things just seem to happen wherever he is on the pitch
- His presence usually forces the game into a new phase - he is a great option as a sub
As frustrating as he is, I reckon there is a lot to him now. And still lots more to come but it's all down to self confidence, can he learn to just do the simple things most of the time, and can he learn to get to the line and cross the ball consistently.
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He was our best player last season until his injury at the start of December. Look how results deteriorated thereafter.
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It was Dyer's speed and bustling that was part of the energy that led to Surman's goal. During that time Saints were awesome. Dyer is an enigmatic player. He has only just returned to the team. I believe that PV can coach him to great things. Give him time. Soon enough he will score and he will be hero, not a villain.
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It was Dyer's speed and bustling that was part of the energy that led to Surman's goal. During that time Saints were awesome. Dyer is an enigmatic player. He has only just returned to the team. I believe that PV can coach him to great things. Give him time. Soon enough he will score and he will be hero, not a villain.
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Aye I'm with those who dont understand why he is so frustrating to watch.
Using Walcott as an example when he first came onto the scene he used the little trick of just knocking the ball past a player and then using his pace to run round them.
A simple trick like that by Dyer could and should be used but it isnt! Also agree with the 1-2s as mentioned above. Surely if we're playing a passing game this should be ideal for Dyer?
But instead he seems to get the ball and slows down/runs out of ideas. Frustrating to say the least.
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One of the players in a team I coached was approx 27 years old, a recent GB Olympic sprinter, faster than Walcott or Dyer. He was a pretty good footballer. It took me a while to convince him by demonstration that he was nowhere near as quick dribbling the ball. Once he had taken this on board, he read the defenders cover and hit the ball as far past the defender as needed, sometimes running three defenders with his pace.
By using one/twos and diagonal through balls he was almost unplayable.
Dyer has pace but it is not being used effectively, that is down to the coaches and the co-operation of his team mates.
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Also Dyer himself, another observation is that he doesn't make or run into space. Quite a few times a midfielder would have to play the ball square to him as he was reluctant to make a run into the corners.
In the short time BWP was on, he often found space in the corners and stretched their defence even though he ballsed up.
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