Premier League Academy - Elite Player Performance Plan - Category One Status

Four months ago...

League One Southampton hope to achieve Category 1

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/can-barcelona-model-solve-englands-talent-drought-2215097.html

I have heard from someone connected to Newcastle United's academy in the last few days that Saints, along with Chelsea and Man City are likely to be the only academies in the English leagues to get category one status should the proposed changes to the academy system come into force (based on checks by the governing bodies). Newcastle would currently be getting a category 3, I don't know any others.

This is based on the rankings from 1 - 4 for all youth systems, taking into account infrastructure/coaching etc and should be finalised later in the summer (possibly the end of June) ready to be implemented for the 2012/13 season.

A real sign of intent that Saints are getting category one when clubs like Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham and Man Utd aren't as things stand. Although I'm sure they will want to get category one asap.

It also brings a number of significant benefits for Saints, Man City and Chelsea over academies ranked 2, 3 or 4 as you can see in the articles below. Significantly higher ranked academies can work with under 9's to under 12's before the other categories and thus have the pick of the bunch. They are also getting rid of the 90 minute rule and there will be a new system of compensation for when youngsters move.

Background on the proposed changes...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulfletcher/2011/02/football_league_fears_over_pla.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/8324495/Henry-Winter-Premier-Leagues-elite-plan-radical-overhaul-of-academy-system-to-help-top-schoolboy-talent.html

This is how Cortese is aiming to compete with the "big boys" and Saints have already been making significant strides in this area. The upgrade to Staplewood and hiring of full time academy staff with UEFA badges (a lot of clubs have a lot of part time staff in the academy) and educational facilities onsite meaning more coaching time being the key ones.

Planning permission was granted in February 2011 for the temporary training buildings Saints will use during the construction phase.

http://web3.newforest.gov.uk/images/planningimages/169247_1.pdf

On the 5th May 2011 you can see that the temporary buildings are now in place...

The new academy system comes in for 2012/13, so they need to get it built by then. So things are moving along nicely towards this...

great stuff

Nice one. Sure I remember hearing at the time that when this was announced that no club would currently achieve cat.1 status.

Which goes to show you the sort of level you need to reach to get it.

Great for the club to have a world-class academy without relying on selling those players as well. This is a large part of the solid foundation that Cortese et al. are going to be building on.

Is there any change planned for the number of hours a year that an Academy can coach kids in England?

I can't find the article but did read this week that in Barca the kids get more than double the hours of coaching compared to English kids who then go back to their "other coaches" who tend to stand there and scream "GET RID OF IT" Think the Uk rule was 3,700 hours or something. It was put forward as a reason that the Sapnish midfield simply were so much more comfortable on the ball and with passing than an English player

Something, something, sign of intent, something...

Nice one. Sure I remember hearing at the time that when this was announced that no club would currently achieve cat.1 status.

 

Which goes to show you the sort of level you need to reach to get it.

Cortese has had this in mind for a while. I remember him outlining the provision for schooling and accommodation at Staplewood to give the youth players far more effective time for various aspects of football. It also allows youth players who travel a distance to stay for extended periods and keep up with their education over the web. A lot of parents are going to be persuaded by the educational aspects more than the football side, combine the two and you really have given yourself the best chance of scooping the best talent.

Is there any change planned for the number of hours a year that an Academy can coach kids in England?

 

I can't find the article but did read this week that in Barca the kids get more than double the hours of coaching compared to English kids who then go back to their "other coaches" who tend to stand there and scream "GET RID OF IT" Think the Uk rule was 3,700 hours or something. It was put forward as a reason that the Sapnish midfield simply were so much more comfortable on the ball and with passing than an English player

This one Phil?

On average, a young player in Spain will have enjoyed 4,880 hours contact time with an elite club such as Barcelona from the ages of nine to 21. Holland and France pour even more time into coaching youngsters, 5,940 hours and 5,740 hours respectively. An English tyro will have only 3,760.

 

Under the FA’s Charter for Quality introduced in 1997, Premier League clubs are permitted three hours’ contact time a week with nine to 11 year-olds, those progressing through what Dennis Bergkamp calls the “golden years of learning”.

In the 12-16 age group, English contenders are limited to five hours a week while those at Bergkamp’s Ajax have 10-12. Wonder why England struggle? Do the maths.

Is there any change planned for the number of hours a year that an Academy can coach kids in England?

 

I can't find the article but did read this week that in Barca the kids get more than double the hours of coaching compared to English kids who then go back to their "other coaches" who tend to stand there and scream "GET RID OF IT" Think the Uk rule was 3,700 hours or something. It was put forward as a reason that the Sapnish midfield simply were so much more comfortable on the ball and with passing than an English player

From listening to Cortese, youth players have to have a set amount of school hours, relaxation and sleep. By removing the travelling and other duties kids may be asked to perform, you maximise the possible coaching time. The younger the player it becomes inevitable they will be living at home where travelling can rule out Saints as an option. Attending the Academy in blocks with the ability to keep up with your education would be a big plus for the younger players.

Has the Staplewood building started now?

TBH, another big part of this would be to break the stranglehold that domestic football teams have over international tournaments, the amount of players that have pulled out of U19's and U21's is rediculous. These are competitions that most of europe holds in high regards and our players seem to treat it with disdain.

We've always had a decent reputation (and a decent success rate) since the early 80's and it makes sense to try and ensure this legacy continues. We obviously can't compete with the big clubs with regards wonga, so need to be loooking for every opportunity to punch above our weight.

My only concern would be with regards the "stories" you hear of even the young lads being offered large envelopes just to sign for some of the "bigger club's academies", but that doesn't mean we shouldn't look to create a niche reputation of being the best Academy south of line from London to Birmingham.

We've always had a decent reputation (and a decent success rate) since the early 80's and it makes sense to try and ensure this legacy continues. We obviously can't compete with the big clubs with regards wonga, so need to be loooking for every opportunity to punch above our weight.

 

My only concern would be with regards the "stories" you hear of even the young lads being offered large envelopes just to sign for some of the "bigger club's academies", but that doesn't mean we shouldn't look to create a niche reputation of being the best Academy south of line from London to Birmingham.

We don't actually know that just yet.

I think the aim is to be better.

Yes gents both Chelsea and Southampton have been confirmed.

Just for banter, Portsmouths is 2 categories below!

This one Phil?

Yep that was it

Is MLG Jordan Sibley? I think we should be told.

Hopefully that means or nippers can play at the highest level, instead of having to play pit pony teams, thanks to the elitist Premier league mentality.

Has the Staplewood building started now?

I asked the same question on another thread but did not get a response. Is there anyone out there who lives nearby that an tell those of us that live a long way from Southampton?

A category 1 academy certainly does cost a fair bit, but its well worth it if it brings good players through.

We just need to make sure we don't end up like Chelsea whose best products play for someone else and then leave for a fraction of what they're actually worth. We're in a better position to actually use our products and we will get a decent fee if we are forced to sell them.

This is excellent news and all part of the building block approach to getting this club into the very top tier of UK football at least. I am convinced this club will be in the Champions League within 10 years.

Honestly, I think this new Academy categorisation is going to mean nothing but bad things for any side outside the Premier League's top 6 within the next 5 or 6 years, so we'd either better get up there or expect to get shafted as soon as the "big clubs" realise we're still churning out decent players despite their attempts to monopolise the system and skew it for their own benefit.

In the short term, great news.

I have heard from someone connected to Newcastle United's academy, that Saints, along with Chelsea and Man City are likely to be the only academies in the English leagues to get category one status should the proposed changes to the academy system come into force (based on checks by the governing bodies). Newcastle would currently be getting a category 3, I don't know any others.

 

This is based on the rankings from 1 - 4 for all youth systems, taking into account infrastructure/coaching etc and should be finalised later in the summer (possibly the end of June) ready to be implemented for the 2012/13 season.

 

A real sign of intent that Saints are getting category one when clubs like Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham and Man Utd aren't as things stand. Although I'm sure they will want to get category one asap.

 

It also brings a number of significant benefits for Saints, Man City and Chelsea over academies ranked 2, 3 or 4 as you can see in the articles below. Significantly higher ranked academies can work with under 9's to under 12's before the other categories and thus have the pick of the bunch. They are also getting rid of the 90 minute rule and there will be a new system of compensation for when youngsters move.

 

Background on the proposed changes...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulfletcher/2011/02/football_league_fears_over_pla.html

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/8324495/Henry-Winter-Premier-Leagues-elite-plan-radical-overhaul-of-academy-system-to-help-top-schoolboy-talent.html

 

This is how Cortese is aiming to compete with the "big boys" and Saints have already been making significant strides in this area. The upgrade to Staplewood and hiring of full time academy staff with UEFA badges (a lot of clubs have a lot of part time staff in the academy) and educational facilities onsite meaning more coaching time being the key ones.

Has the upgrade to Staplewood even started yet?

Has the upgrade to Staplewood even started yet?

Planning permission was granted in February 2011 for the temporary training buildings Saints will use during the construction phase.

http://web3.newforest.gov.uk/images/planningimages/169247_1.pdf

On the 5th May 2011 you can see that the temporary buildings are now in place...

Yes gents both Chelsea and Southampton have been confirmed.

 

 

Just for banter, Portsmouths is 2 categories below!

Confirmed where??

Honestly, I think this new Academy categorisation is going to mean nothing but bad things for any side outside the Premier League's top 6 within the next 5 or 6 years, so we'd either better get up there or expect to get shafted as soon as the "big clubs" realise we're still churning out decent players despite their attempts to monopolise the system and skew it for their own benefit.

 

In the short term, great news.

Short term and long term, this is great news. The sole purpose of the Academy is to produce quality players. The better the quality we get in through the door, the better the quality we will be able to produce. By seeing that category prospective talent will know there is nothing better out there, they will not be receiving a second rate chance by coming to a Championship club. They will see the likes of Walcott and Bale and realise their chances were done no harm by being at Saints and the most important part of the learning process, to be able to go into the first team and compete for a place.

I would not underestimate this achievement and part of the master plan. When you look at everything logically, there will be kids and parents who will make Saints their #1 choice of Academy, because of it's excellent record and first class standing. For some players it takes a lot longer to break through, defenders for example like Matt Mills. The higher up you are, the less chance of being brought into the first team. I understand the financial implications of keeping it all up in the air, but it can be run at a break even in the Championship. Crewe showed for many years that the right set up would produce the goods and in some aspects their lowly position actually aided the system they had.

Yes gents both Chelsea and Southampton have been confirmed.

 

Just for banter, Portsmouths is 2 categories below!

Confirmed where??

Well, I've had it confirmed, seems like Tac-tics has aswell. Depends if you trust us or not. It also correlates to the quote in The Independent.

Four months ago...

League One Southampton hope to achieve Category 1

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/can-barcelona-model-solve-englands-talent-drought-2215097.html

Now they have met those aims.

Well, I've had it confirmed, seems like Tac-tics has aswell. Depends if you trust us or not. It also correlates to the quote in The Independent.

 

Four months ago...

 

 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/can-barcelona-model-solve-englands-talent-drought-2215097.html

 

Now they have met those aims.

So, although very likely and it seems we'll meet the required conditions, not actually confirmed... I've no reason to doubt either you or Tac-tics but to say it's confirmed is a little mis-leading to those of us without the same kind of contacts... Just looking for some official confirmation from either the club or the FA.

So, although very likely and it seems we'll meet the required conditions, not actually confirmed... I've no reason to doubt either you or Tac-tics but to say it's confirmed is a little mis-leading to those of us without the same kind of contacts... Just looking for some official confirmation from either the club or the FA.

Thats the thing with itk information, it isn't itk information if it is already in the public domain. I started the thread to inform people of what I had heard from a source and thought it would interest Saints fans. It will reach the public domain in the coming months once the new academy system has been fully sorted out.

Thats the thing with itk information, it isn't itk information if it is already in the public domain. I started the thread to inform people of what I had heard from a source. It will reach the public domain in the coming months once the new academy system has been fully sorted out.

Absolutely, but to say it's confirmed suggests that there has been some sort of official announcement... And to say Saints and Chelsea have been confirmed as cat 1 centres and Portsmouth as a cat 3 suggests that some sort of list has been released.

Nice one. Sure I remember hearing at the time that when this was announced that no club would currently achieve cat.1 status.

 

Which goes to show you the sort of level you need to reach to get it.

Absolutely inspiring as long as we have the courage to stop all those other lesser equipped greedy bastards from stealing our best graduates. Cortese must tell the "BIG Four" to Eff Off and build their own systems if they want good players in the future.

Absolutely inspiring as long as we have the courage to stop all those other lesser equipped greedy bastards from stealing our best graduates. Cortese must tell the "BIG Four" to Eff Off and build their own systems if they want good players in the future.

Pretty much what he did he january then?

All sounds like good news. It would be nice to think that our academy players want to grow up and actually play for us. That's where Barca do so well, they have the set up and attract/produce top talent. But not many want to break through and leave for another club. Might take a while for us to ingrain that mentality into our youth.

Of all of this I can't help but think that Rupert Lowe will be looking on with a smug "i told you so" look on his face as we try to build a club with a top class academy being at the route if it all. Lol

Of all of this I can't help but think that Rupert Lowe will be looking on with a smug "i told you so" look on his face as we try to build a club with a top class academy being at the route if it all. Lol

Yeah, because building an academy and developing young talent is such a groundbreaking concept.

All sounds like good news. It would be nice to think that our academy players want to grow up and actually play for us. That's where Barca do so well, they have the set up and attract/produce top talent. But not many want to break through and leave for another club. Might take a while for us to ingrain that mentality into our youth.

 

Of all of this I can't help but think that Rupert Lowe will be looking on with a smug "i told you so" look on his face as we try to build a club with a top class academy being at the route if it all. Lol

Like we never produced good youth players before he came along with this concept!

All sounds like good news. It would be nice to think that our academy players want to grow up and actually play for us. That's where Barca do so well, they have the set up and attract/produce top talent. But not many want to break through and leave for another club. Might take a while for us to ingrain that mentality into our youth.

 

Of all of this I can't help but think that Rupert Lowe will be looking on with a smug "i told you so" look on his face as we try to build a club with a top class academy being at the route if it all. Lol

They also pay top top wages...

We have been doing this for generations. Only difference now is that we no longer have the need to sell to survive.

Thats the thing with itk information, it isn't itk information if it is already in the public domain. I started the thread to inform people of what I had heard from a source and thought it would interest Saints fans. It will reach the public domain in the coming months once the new academy system has been fully sorted out.

You're still on here? I thought you'd have been declared an honorary palace fan by now?

Yes gents both Chelsea and Southampton have been confirmed.

 

 

Just for banter, Portsmouths is 2 categories below!

How do they even register on the scale!!?

 

Originally Posted by saintjay77

All sounds like good news. It would be nice to think that our academy players want to grow up and actually play for us. That's where Barca do so well, they have the set up and attract/produce top talent. But not many want to break through and leave for another club. Might take a while for us to ingrain that mentality into our youth.

 

Of all of this I can't help but think that Rupert Lowe will be looking on with a smug "i told you so" look on his face as we try to build a club with a top class academy being at the route if it all. Lol

 

Like we never produced good youth players before he came along with this concept!

When Lowe came in the youth set up was in the worst condition it had been in recent times, I cannot remember it being that bad from that time we were in the 1st division. Lowe started from virtually ground zero for what was needed. Lawrie and Souness had no interest in developing the youth side. I don't know whether it was luck or how he managed to do it, but it was a remarkable achievement for a club such as Saints. All he did was to put the parts together, just it was all the right parts.

sorry gents been away, I found out through work as we have had our status confirmed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the proposals for this new academy structure are just that - proposals. Nothing has yet been agreed, as far as I'm aware.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the proposals for this new academy structure are just that - proposals. Nothing has yet been agreed, as far as I'm aware.

Although, as pointed out by Matt Le God earlier in this thread, the 'Temporary' buildings that are to be in place to keep the place running while the new facilities are built, are up.

This more then implies that work is underway.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the proposals for this new academy structure are just that - proposals. Nothing has yet been agreed, as far as I'm aware.

And yet we're one of only 2 "confirmed" category 1 academies apparently!!

Although, as pointed out by Matt Le God earlier in this thread, the 'Temporary' buildings that are to be in place to keep the place running while the new facilities are built, are up.

 

This more then implies that work is underway.

I meant the Premier League proposals, not the building work at the training ground.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the proposals for this new academy structure are just that - proposals. Nothing has yet been agreed, as far as I'm aware.

Steve, we all know what happens when the big boys and the FA want to do something.

They do it.

Which will suit us down to the ground.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the proposals for this new academy structure are just that - proposals. Nothing has yet been agreed, as far as I'm aware.

Yep, just proposals for the new structure atm. But it is a proposal that suits the Premier League teams, so they will be pushed through very soon. All that may happen is that the Football League clubs may get some of the tweaks to the revised compensation scheme they want as a compromise. The fundamentals will stay the same.

Have just seen this in the Mail , would be good to get in this particular tournament me thinks ...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2006488/Champions-League-style-tournament-launched-Under-19s.html

Southampton FC ‏@SouthamptonFC

#SaintsFC is delighted to announce it has retained its Category One Academy status for a further three years:

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/20160624-southampton-category-one-status-academy-announcement-3151733.aspx