New Signings replacing established players
Something I've always wondered about.
A club make a new signing, Player A, who plays in a given position.
The established club players, B and C, who play in that position - how do they react ? Do they sulk, and tw*t Player A ? Do they immediately get on the phone to their agent and instruct him to find another club ? How many really buckle down and determine to make Player A second-choice, and how realistic is it to change a managers perspective on this when he has to justify having just spent several million quid on Player A ?
So far this window we have Clyne coming in with some sort of promise of first team football, J-Rod giving more competition for places up front, and hopefully Davis to put the cat-among-the-pigeons with the central midfielders. And Kelvin must be wondering what the f**k his standing will be come mid-August.
Anybody with interesting anecdotes about the dynamic at times like these ?
Yeah, lets just stick with the team we have.
That clearly is not what he is saying.
Originally Posted by Jones91
I guess a lot of it comes down to attitude, you would hope a player would take on the challenge and try to hold on to their starting place. Some i imagine just think f**k it, i'm off.
This happens at every club at every level, from world football to grassroots Sunday league. If the manager feels he can get a better player in, he will.
It's a long, hard season and I would expect the replaced player to still get a decent share of games, but also, competition for your place must not be underestimated. It can only be a good thing. If the replaced player isn't up for it, then they can move on. It's harsh, but that's the reality of it, as I say at every level. At least he won't have to run the line!
As you go through the leagues, established players will become squad players, squad players will become redundant. It's natural progression.
I think we've got the right idea, we're buying players who are decent now, with great potential and still improving. They'll be hungry and keen to impress, hopefully without the ego and wage demands of established premier league journeymen like our rivals are signing. We're building a squad that'll do ok in this league, but essentially building a team for the future, that'll do better than ok.
Nigel has bought to of the four I wanted at the start of the transfer window. He just needs to go and get Burke and Curtis Davies from Birmingham and we will be in good shape.
There won't be a hard and fast answer.
Originally Posted by alpine_saint
Depends completely on the player's mentality. As far as I can see, you'll get 3 types:
* Those that will buckle down and use it to spur them on to better performances
* Those that will seek a new club (e.g. Paddy Kenny as soon as Rob Green signed for QPR)
* Those that really, really won't give a sh1t (e.g. Wayne Bridge, whose on mega bucks and clearly doesn't care about his career beyond the expiry of his contract)
You'd hope the existing players would see it as a challenge and try to up there game.....
But I suspect that a fair few cases they go into sulk mode
Must be something they're used to though. It's the ones that play regularly in the Championship and then get replaced in the PL (or worse sold back to a Champ team) that I feel (a little) sorry for
I understand the strategy at club-level; I was more thinking about the emotion of the players being replaced. It must be tough, having helped a team to fulfill its dream of a return to the PL, only to discover that you may not be valued enough to play a major role in staying there.
My son is just stepping up from U12 (9-a-side playing full-width but only up to the penalty areas length-wise) to U14 (full game), and I am trying to gently prepare him that with him being officially U13 (but there is no U13 league) and not having played the full game before, he is going to spend a lot of time on the subs bench or worse this season, but that it will be his turn again next season when he is a real U14 player, and trying to keep him motivated for training.
Seems to me to be a similar set of emotions.
It's no different to any other club, any other organisation, in fact any other group of people in the world.
The nature of a community of any kind is that it is fluid. Members come and go, and establish a form of hierarchy or structure which is often constantly changing.
How any individual reacts to that is largely down to their personality and standing within the community.
In short: it depends.
This is why Adkins is always talking about getting players in who are not only good enough to improve the team, but who have the right attitude.
Originally Posted by alpine_saint
I don't think for a second that Sharp, Richardson or any of the CMs will begrudge the challenge of fighting against better players for a spot.
Nobody wants to be replaced by someone else (a better model!), whatever it is they're doing
It puts me in mind of the apocryphal story of the club chairman who, having just watched his team clinch promotion, joins the jubilant players in the dressing room, only to say: "Well done lads - now we're up we'll make sure we get some decent players in to keep us there!"
Originally Posted by alpine_saint
I guess it's all part of being a footballer (or a player in pretty much any team sport, come to that). Still and all, it must be hard to take. And it's in just these areas that the manager really needs to earn his corn.
I do it at work all the time, every business does it. One of the downsides of being paid £10,000 per week is that if someone is better out there then you will lose your place. If you lose your place too often you wont get £10,000 per week for much longer. Thats what you subscribe to when you join pro football and if you are not with the programme you soon will be. It requires great mental strength to cope with it in the case of a footballer. Bridger is a perfect example - I would loved to have seen him play a few more seasons at a high level to see what he could achieve but instead all he will really be remembered for is taking the money to sit on the bench. Richardson and Butterfield are experienced professionals and know how to cope with it- Clyne supplanted Butterfield at Palace anyways so its hardly new for him.
Players find there level - rarely does a poor player get promoted up the ranks until hes a superstar or ignored if he is a real talent ( though how Carlton Palmer played twice as many games for England than MLT is an obvious point of how it doesnt always work that way!). If Clyne is better than the others at RB the NA will play him, if he's not , 4 year contract or not, suggestions of promises of automatic appearances or not, he won't.
Butterfield must be sick of the sight of Clyne!
I often think in the euphoria of any club's promotion, especially at play-off finals, as the players celebrate wildly on the pitch, but actually, how many of you will be playing in the higher league? There are some players who seem to get promotion with club after club but are just not considered good to enough to play a division up.
Mind you, my sympathy for them is tempered a bit by realising that they'll get a huge promotion bonus anyway!
He is a realist, I'm sure. At 33(?) he knows his time at this level is only a matter of time....and his time is running out.
Originally Posted by HurleyBurley
Having been granted an extra years contract, he will be in a good bargaining situation....when he (eventually) moves on.
He may be on the bench for match 1....but after that won't be surprised to see him as someone's last minute buy before Aug.31st.
.or go on loan in September...as he won't want to end up in Dickson's situation and spend a season in the wilderness between bench and the training ground.
Well first of all Alpine, you must be happy to have a lad who can successfully play at "some sort" of junior level. Neither of my lads were really good enough for that. One damaged his knee whilst ski-ing.... and the other is more successful as a musician.
Originally Posted by alpine_saint
However, I think it's good for your son to keep some perspective about what can happen.
I recalled two short stories about young players.
Gordon Strachan said his first day at Coventry(?) ..he had to " sort the wheat from the chaff " and let some of the youth players go. After telling one lad....he " wasn't going to make it", WGS had to comfort the boy who was so upset...he cried!
Bobby Charlton (talking about the time before he signed for Man.Utd)....said that his father told him he had to finish his apprenticeship (as an electrician) first before signing.....in case he broke his leg and couldn't play anymore......
We can hope that we might see " young Alpine " in Saints colours one day, but in the event... he doesn't he ought to have some clear perspective of the rest of his life...in the event of...
Last edited by david in sweden; 19-07-2012 at 05:20 PM.
I think you can put too many new players in the team at once even if they are better players. The dilema is you put too many in and you lose the team cohesion you had last season and it takes until Christmas to gel but if you only make the odd change you might get more points up to Christmas but you won't be good enough overall. There has to be some sort of balance in between and I can see Nigel starting with a lot of the players from last season and gradually introducing the new ones.
that's clearly the advantage of a good pre-season. It gives NA a chance to do a bit of ..." wheat sorting "
I certainly don't expect to see them all starting games in the first month. It'll be down to form and injuries.
Steven Davis will start I'm sure and perhaps even Nat Clyne, but expect to see Jay Rod on the bench as sub. for ...Lambert ?
we haven't bought "the rest" yet, but don't expect massive changes for the first game.
Francis Benali must have seen off how many supposed better left backs that were bought to replace him. Can you name them?