To all the Guly haters out there

[Smirking_Saint]

So the crux of the matter is that Guly and Adam need to release the ball earlier.

This basically

[JPTCount]

[Dig Dig]

It was noticeable that when James Ward Prowse gave the ball away cheaply on saturday hardly a whisper. When Guly did something virtually identical everyone around me went nuts screaming to get him off. He was actually quite good in the first half. Unfortunately there are a lot of in our support who dont get it.

This

[PokingFun]

Ok! I don't think Tim is right about that though, I can think of plenty of youth products that got the dogs abuse (McGoldrick, Lloyd James, Kenwyne Jones, that centre back christ what was his name the one who kept giving away penalties) and plenty of players we brought in what were crowd favourites even beyond their abilities (Chaplow, Prutton, Saejs, that hairy right back from sweden)

I reckon he's under-rated (if he is under-rated) pretty much entirely cos of his languid running style.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head here. He looks casual whereas if he were to have an aggressive running style and be a hard looking tackler like Chaplow, people would actually think better of him which is completely wrong. Unfortunately the average English fan prefers blood and thunder to people who can pass it.

[buctootim]

He isn't saying that at all, but he's saying that peoples attitudes differ dependent on how the player came to the club.

Exactly, thanks. Perceptions of being a 'local boy', 'come through the ranks', 'one of us' and 'loyal' count for a lot with some fans especially and grant a player a lot of leeway. Being signed in lg 1and therefore de facto not very good and not speaking the language and appearing in interviews to say nice stuff about the club or fans allows a whole different set of assumptions to grow up.

[saintsmike25]

He's getting used to the pace of the premiership. It is true sometimes he lacks a bit of awareness and is caught out on the ball. But even Lallana/Morgan and Clyne do that.

The problem with Guly is - his style of play comes across as lackadaisical.

[buctootim]

The problem with Guly is - his style of play comes across as lackadaisical.

He's got a very loose limbed way of walking and running - languid is the perfect word.

[Northant Saint]

Was I watching a different game to a lot of people on saturday??? Nearly all of our positive play in the first half came from down the right side, I thought Clyne and Guly linked up well. And why are we having yet another Guly debate when we consider how shambolic our left side was? Rodriguez was anonymous for large parts of the game and gave the ball away on several occasions. There seemed to be no connection at all between him and Fox.

I dont think it was a coincidence that the performance level of team dropped as a whole when Guly couldn't maintain his first half form. How anyone can say he was the weak link is absolutely absurd to me.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Guly was OK in the 1st have against Wigan and then just got worse in terms of a contribution to change the result. It's no good having a good % pass rate if they then all achieve the square root of F all. By contrast, Rodrigues had a largely anonamous game for the whole 90 minutes and was just useless, although I really cannot blame him entirely because he doesn't know how to fulfill the LM/winger role. Fox and Fonte are looking like being liabilities in defence too. Guly therefore, while frustrating, is by no means the biggest issue regarding quality in the team.

[BlakeySFC]

Always thought the whole Guly issue was subconcious racism.

Puncheon was the scapegoat before, now Guly is the one all the boo-boys shout at.

Yet Lallana/Ward-Prowse/Davis give the ball away and hardly a peep

[Hedgehog]

F*** me if I have posted this before, I will post it again. Just as well this forum wasn't around (unless it was) when Matty was playing for us. And no before someone jumps in (probably again) I am not saying he is anywhere near to Matty, but I am sure Le Tiss would be getting the same grief from certain posters.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

He's getting used to the pace of the premiership. It is true sometimes he lacks a bit of awareness and is caught out on the ball. But even Lallana/Morgan and Clyne do that.

The problem with Guly is - his style of play comes across as lackadaisical.

He's like a cross between Dimitar Berbatov, Carlton Palmer and Paolo Wanchope

[The Kraken]

F*** me if I have posted this before, I will post it again. Just as well this forum wasn't around (unless it was) when Matty was playing for us. And no before someone jumps in (probably again) I am not saying he is anywhere near to Matty, but I am sure Le Tiss would be getting the same grief from certain posters.

No he wouldn't. Poor analogy.

[hypochondriac]

Always thought the whole Guly issue was subconcious racism.

Puncheon was the scapegoat before, now Guly is the one all the boo-boys shout at.

Yet Lallana/Ward-Prowse/Davis give the ball away and hardly a peep

What about if people think guly was poor but really liked clyne? What then?

[Bearsy]

We dont mind english blacks its the furren ones comin over here tekin r jerbs what we hate

[buctootim]

We dont mind english blacks its the furren ones comin over here tekin r jerbs what we hate

Watch it. I got a racism infraction for posting up Blue Mink's 'Melting Pot'.

[The Kraken]

What about if people think guly was poor but really liked clyne? What then?

The racism jab really boils my p*ss. It really does. Such lazy and self-righteous bullsh*t from idiots who haven't got a grip on reality and love getting a bit of faux outrage.

[Bearsy]

Watch it. I got a racism infraction for posting up Blue Mink's 'Melting Pot'.

Is that what that was bout the take a pinch of white man or whatever? I wondered bout that myself but when i read it careful it seemed to be promoting inclusivity, if thats the word that i want. Someone narc you out for that then? There's some delicate flowers on here

[Hedgehog]

No he wouldn't. Poor analogy.

Are you sure? I have been at the Dell when people around me have been moaning about what the F has Matty done today, for me to remind them that he is the one who has put us one up. He would be slated just as much by certain individuals. Not everyone loved Matty. Me, I am one of Mattys biggest fans, not everyone had the same opinion. So I don't think my analogy is poor.

[Lighthouse]

Always thought the whole Guly issue was subconcious racism.

Puncheon was the scapegoat before, now Guly is the one all the boo-boys shout at.

Yet Lallana/Ward-Prowse/Davis give the ball away and hardly a peep

And before Guly and Puncheon we had those useless black players Paul Telfer, Mikel Nilsson and Calum Davenport.

You're right, it's weird how all the players being criticised at the moment are black. Fonte, Fox, Rodriguez and Kelvin.

Still, none of those players would have taken any abuse what so ever if they'd come through our accademy. Players like Lloyd James, Simon Gillett and Ollie Lancashire were universally popular on here, just because they came through our youth system.

[hypochondriac]

The racism jab really boils my p*ss. It really does. Such lazy and self-righteous bullsh*t from idiots who haven't got a grip on reality and love getting a bit of faux outrage.

Its only that one mentalist who thinks that. What irritates me is the statement that anyone who doesn't think guly is very good has no knowledge about football and those who like him are on a different intellectual level. It's nonsense.

[buctootim]

The racism jab really boils my p*ss. It really does. Such lazy and self-righteous bullsh*t from idiots who haven't got a grip on reality and love getting a bit of faux outrage.

Colour is often a factor imo, but along with many others. Class and shared values, humour, experience and language are more important. Just as being an academy product dont guarantee hero worship.

It is true however that you are more likely to be cut more slack if you are a young, good looking, run around a lot lad from Southampton who speaks well in interviews than an ugly, non english speaking black guy. Its the way the world works - people are attracted to people like themselves and the good looking.

[hypochondriac]

Colour is often a factor imo, but along with many others. Class and shared values, humour, experience and language are more important.

Do you seriously think that most fans dislike guly because of subconscious racism? Seriously?

[Lighthouse]

Its only that one mentalist who thinks that. What irritates me is the statement that anyone who doesn't think guly is very good has no knowledge about football and those who like him are on a different intellectual level. It's nonsense.

I remember being repeated told that anyone who can't see what Jermaine Wright brings to a team was clueless and knew nothing about football. I think I must be a bit thick because 6 years later I'm still none the wiser.

[syd_barrett_saint]

We dont mind english blacks its the furren ones comin over here tekin r jerbs what we hate

Lol. Can always rely on Bearsy to hit the nail on the head in a comedy style.

[buctootim]

Is that what that was bout the take a pinch of white man or whatever? I wondered bout that myself but when i read it careful it seemed to be promoting inclusivity, if thats the word that i want. Someone narc you out for that then? There's some delicate flowers on here

Sung by a black woman promoting "coffee coloured people by the score".

[The Kraken]

Colour is often a factor imo, but along with many others. Class and shared values, humour, experience and language are more important. Just as being an academy product dont guarantee hero worship.

It is true however that you are more likely to be cut more slack if you are a young, good looking, run around a lot lad from Southampton who speaks well in interviews than an ugly, non english speaking black guy. Its the way the world works - people are attracted to people like themselves and the good looking.

Speak for yourself Tim. Don't ever presume to peddle that nonsense onto me, thank you very much.

[buctootim]

Do you seriously think that most fans dislike guly because of subconscious racism? Seriously?

So you didnt read / comprehend the sentence then?

[buctootim]

Speak for yourself Tim. Don't ever presume to peddle that nonsense onto me, thank you very much.

Married to an ugly black woman who doesnt speak English are you? Thought not. Nice faux outrage btw.

[The Kraken]

Married to an ugly black woman who doesnt speak English are you? Nice faux outrage btw.

Its not outrage. Its a desire to not be associated with the claptrap currently emanating from your keyboard.

[syd_barrett_saint]

Do you seriously think that most fans dislike guly because of subconscious racism? Seriously?

Obviously no one thinks that all/most fans dislike Guly because of racism / xenophobia. But at the other end of the spectrum, it is impossible to claim that all fans who dislike Guly are discriminating against his colour and/or nationality (and people who get outraged at the suggestion should question why).

It isn't as black and white as that.

[The Kraken]

Obviously no one thinks that all/most fans dislike Guly because of racism / xenophobia. But at the other end of the spectrum, it is impossible to claim that all fans who dislike Guly are discriminating against his colour and/or nationality (and people who get outraged at the suggestion should question why).

It isn't as black and white as that.

Of course there are probably some idiots who will discriminate through colour. I'd like to think they are fanastically in the minority, and my experience around Saints fans would suggest that's true, but who truly knows?

What gets me is when ignorant people like Timbuctoo try and speak on behalf of a substantial number of the population in response to a general viewpoint about the merits of a particular footballer, and wade in brandishing the race card. Its a fantastically naive, thoroughly unnecessary and wholly abject point of view to claim a consistent racist view is an often occurring incident, without any true knowledge of what you're actually talking about.

But then I find Timmy to be a bit of an objectionable pr*ck at the best of times, so I shouldn't be surprised at his nonsensical ramblings I suppose.

[syd_barrett_saint]

Obviously no one thinks that all/most fans dislike Guly because of racism / xenophobia. But at the other end of the spectrum, it is impossible to claim that all fans who dislike Guly are discriminating against his colour and/or nationality (and people who get outraged at the suggestion should question why).

It isn't as black and white as that.

Oops. That should of course have read "it is impossible to claim that NO fans who dislike Guly are discriminating against his colour and/or nationality". But I can't edit my post as I am not a full member, despite have paid my subscription renewal to Saintsweb by PayPal over a month ago. But no one replies to my repeated messages asking to be made a full member again. And this is my last post of the day, with the 3 post limit. Doubt anyone will see this. Thanks for nothing Saintsweb!

[The Kraken]

Oops. That should of course have read "it is impossible to claim that NO fans who dislike Guly are discriminating against his colour and/or nationality". But I can't edit my post as I am not a full member, despite have paid my subscription renewal to Saintsweb by PayPal over a month ago. But no one replies to my repeated messages asking to be made a full member again. And this is my last post of the day, with the 3 post limit. Doubt anyone will see this. Thanks for nothing Saintsweb!

Ha ha; if it helps I'll ping off some private messages to the mods for you pal

[buctootim]

Of course there are probably some idiots who will discriminate through colour. I'd like to think they are fanastically in the minority, and my experience around Saints fans would suggest that's true, but who truly knows?

What gets me is when ignorant people like Timbuctoo try and speak on behalf of a substantial number of the population in response to a general viewpoint about the merits of a particular footballer, and wade in brandishing the race card. Its a fantastically naive, thoroughly unnecessary and wholly abject point of view to claim a consistent racist view is an often occurring incident, without any true knowledge of what you're actually talking about.

But then I find Timmy to be a bit of an objectionable pr*ck at the best of times, so I shouldn't be surprised at his nonsensical ramblings I suppose.

Ho ho. My, havent seen an unprompted tizz like this. Don't be shy. Tell us all about your black girlfriend at college and your many black friends, who you dont happen to have seen for a while, by circumstance, not choice you understand.

[The Kraken]

Don't be shy. Tell us all about your black girlfriend at college and your many black friends, who you dont happen to have seen for a while, by circumstance you understand.

What has that got to do with me having an opinion, you silly little man?

If it helps your straw man argument, I spent most of yesterday evening in and around the company of some of my multicultural friends, but that's neither here nor there and entirely irrelevant. You daft bigot.

[buctootim]

What has that got to do with me having an opinion, you silly little man?

If it helps your starw man argument, I spent most of yesterday evening in and around the company of some of my multicultural friends, but that's neither here nor there and entirely irrelevant. You daft bigot.

Do tell us more. Im very drawn to liberals. Did you suddenly go off the deep end into an uncontrolled rant yesterday too?

[The Kraken]

Do tell us more. Im very drawn to liberals.

What would you like to know Tim? That I have friends? That could be an alien concept to you, I suppose.

[buctootim]

What would you like to know Tim? That I have friends? That could be an alien concept to you, I suppose.

I think I'll leave it here. You've proved the point very clearly. People who deny ever notions like race and class have ever entered their heads and how disgusting it is that anyone should suggest such a thing are very illuminating. The rant more so.

[The Kraken]

I think I'll leave it here. You've proved the point very clearly. People who deny ever notions like race and class have ever entered their heads and how disgusting it is that anyone should suggest such a thing are very illuminating. The rant more so.

Well done for missing the point, and glossing over the points I've actually made in this thread, where I've actually conceded that some people probably do formulate an opinion based upon race. And you accuse me of point scoring?! How wonderful.

I did enjoy how you classified this as a "rant" though. Are you that intolerant that you consider an opposite viewpoint to yours as one spoken purely out of anger? Interesting.

[Maggie May]

This thread sums up how wonderfully woeful this place has become. Thank goodness it only represents a minuscule portion of our fan base.

It's borderline psychotic at the moment, so lord knows what it'll descend into if we have a poor season.

[toe_punt]

I'm surprised that one of th elimp hand wringing brigade hasn'gt sallied forth with accusations of racism.....


Anyway, it's interesting how we see games differently. I thought that Guly was OK against Wigan and absolute sh1te against city.

His main deficiency is a total lack of a first touch - pretty strange for a Brazillian professional footballer.

[SaintBobby]

It's early in the season, neither the team or individuals can be properly judged yet.

But you have already decided our finishing position as you did last year? What a fool.

[JPTCount]

His main deficiency is a total lack of a first touch - pretty strange for a Brazillian professional footballer.

it's like getting the only Chinese kid who can't do math

racist

[funkymojo44]

I was actually more surprised by the feeling towards Fox after 2 games. Yes he had a mistake against City and wasn't brilliant vs Wigan but over 2 games its a little harsh. His setup and volley against wigan could have changed opinion if it wasnt well saved by the keeper.

Do Prado or Fox its the same - if we aren't winning fans target certain players they 'think' are weak.

[BlakeySFC]

And before Guly and Puncheon we had those useless black players Paul Telfer, Mikel Nilsson and Calum Davenport.

You're right, it's weird how all the players being criticised at the moment are black. Fonte, Fox, Rodriguez and Kelvin.

Still, none of those players would have taken any abuse what so ever if they'd come through our accademy. Players like Lloyd James, Simon Gillett and Ollie Lancashire were universally popular on here, just because they came through our youth system.

I've heard racism in the Northam before and duly reported it, I'm also 95% sure I heard someone at Man City in the row in front keep shouting racist remarks at Guly, but couldn't hear properly above the noise that day to be sure 100% and properly report it.

If Guly was white he wouldn't get anywhere near the abuse he does.

[capitalsaint]

how do i join one of these brigades?

[yellow&blue]

His drink driving charge ain't gonna do his cause any favours is it??

[hypochondriac]

I've heard racism in the Northam before and duly reported it, I'm also 95% sure I heard someone at Man City in the row in front keep shouting racist remarks at Guly, but couldn't hear properly above the noise that day to be sure 100% and properly report it.

If Guly was white he wouldn't get anywhere near the abuse he does.

A d so you extrapolate that to the rest of the crowd and your conclusion is that those who dislike guly are subconsciously racist. Whacko...

[St Chalet]

This thread sums up how wonderfully woeful this place has become. Thank goodness it only represents a minuscule portion of our fan base.

It's borderline psychotic at the moment, so lord knows what it'll descend into if we have a poor season.

This, apologies for those actually posting on the footballing abilities of Guly.