If Yoshida isn't the answer. Who is?

[Mr X]

Don't get me wrong I like the guys enthusiasm and he's not terrible but to me at two and a half mil he isn't any better than what we already had, gets lost out of position all the time and no pace to keep up with the attacker and lightweight on the ball, seems good at long range passes though. Who would be an option to come in in jan to play alongside him? It's going to be a key signing that we have to get right!

[Windmill Arm 2]

don't get me wrong i like the guys enthusiasm and he's not terrible but to me at two and a half mil he isn't any better than what we already had, gets lost out of position all the time and no pace to keep up with the attacker and lightweight on the ball, seems good at long range passes though. Who would be an option to come in in jan to play alongside him? It's going to be a key signing that we have to get right!

omfg !

[S-Clarke]

Are you basing this on 80 odd mins playing out of position? Where, understandably, he looked uncomfortable and uneasy
When played at CB he's look pretty composed, wins most of his headers, very quick as well - so I'm not sure why you think he's slow. but again, we've not really seen a great deal of him to come to any massive conclusion either way.

He captained Japan to a 1-0 win last night away in France as well btw.

[Thedelldays]

Don't get me wrong I like the guys enthusiasm and he's not terrible but to me at two and a half mil he isn't any better than what we already had, gets lost out of position all the time and no pace to keep up with the attacker and lightweight on the ball, seems good at long range passes though. Who would be an option to come in in jan to play alongside him? It's going to be a key signing that we have to get right!

When will people get it... The problem is more about our defensive shape and set up more than. Individual players

[niceandfriendly]

I seen him play in each of our games so far (albeit from afar) and he has looked pretty good but nothing spectacular. Probably what you'd expect for 2 million squid these days.

I'd have him with either Fonte or Hoiveld, and at the moment preferably Fonte.

[Mr X]

Are you basing this on 80 odd mins playing out of position? Where, understandably, he looked uncomfortable and uneasy
When played at CB he's look pretty composed, wins most of his headers, very quick as well - so I'm not sure why you think he's slow. but again, we've not really seen a great deal of him to come to any massive conclusion either way.

He captained Japan to a 1-0 win last night away in France as well btw.

I don't think he's a waste of time, I just don't think he is the signing that will shaw up our defence more is needed

[Turkish]

I don't think he's a waste of time, I just don't think he is the signing that will shaw up our defence more is needed

I think Luke Shaw is the only one that could do that.

[miserableoldgit]

Don't get me wrong I like the guys enthusiasm and he's not terrible but to me at two and a half mil he isn't any better than what we already had, gets lost out of position all the time and no pace to keep up with the attacker and lightweight on the ball, seems good at long range passes though. Who would be an option to come in in jan to play alongside him? It's going to be a key signing that we have to get right!

So you are basing this on a player who has come from a foreign country straight into the PL, played, what, four league games,(plus International breaks interuptions) one of which he was close to being M.O.M for me and one where he was played out of position for most of the game?

[Mr X]

I think Luke Shaw is the only one that could do that.

On his way to arsenal if you believe the daily mail

[Saint Troy]

Clearly not a right back but in my opinion best cb on our books and more to progress as he settles in. Our only cb with any composure on the ball and he didn't struggle against Fellini when he pushed up against him, more than can be said for most prem cbs so far this year! Dumb opening post in my opinion, especially when he is the one you say should be played out of all out cbs.... Clearly he is better then

[adriansfc]

When will people get it... The problem is more about our defensive shape and set up more than. Individual players

People will never get it. Defensive problems - sign a new defender. Goalscoring problems - sign a new striker. No thought required.

[Turkish]

People will never get it. Defensive problems - sign a new defender. Goalscoring problems - sign a new striker. No thought required.

The football manager Generation.

[Mr X]

When will people get it... The problem is more about our defensive shape and set up more than. Individual players

So you believe our defence is good enough? and we merely need to change our defensive shape and we will stop shipping goals?

[S-Clarke]

So you believe our defence is good enough? and we merely need to change our defensive shape and we will stop shipping goals?

It's a combation of both really. You can't expect to sign a CB and for all your problems to be resolved, you need to look at the entire setup. We could have had the best centre backs in the world against Arsenal a few weeks ago, but we'd have still be beaten very heavily because the midfield offered no protection.

At the end of the day, worse defenders than Fonte and Jos have performed in the PL before - it's equally about what's in front of them, anyone will look exposed and poor if they've being run at all game.

[CylonKing]

So you believe our defence is good enough? and we merely need to change our defensive shape and we will stop shipping goals?

That is exactly what he is saying. We have the personnel, we just need to protect our full backs more from midfield. Lallana is not a winger and is not tracking back. Clyne is an exceptional player, however when he has no protection, there is nothing that can be done. We need proper, old school wingers with the stamina to track back, help the full-back out and then get back up the field to attack. Our new Japanese defender, so far, has looked the part. Just a few tweaks to our shape and a bit more thought in our defensive play should sort out our problems.

[miserableoldgit]

So you believe our defence is good enough? and we merely need to change our defensive shape and we will stop shipping goals?

Obviously not ATM, but buying international players and judging after four games isn`t the answer either.

[Mr X]

It's a combation of both really. You can't expect to sign a CB and for all your problems to be resolved, you need to look at the entire setup. We could have had the best centre backs in the world against Arsenal a few weeks ago, but we'd have still be beaten very heavily because the midfield offered no protection.

At the end of the day, worse defenders than Fonte and Jos have performed in the PL before - it's equally about what's in front of them, anyone will look exposed and poor if they've being run at all game.

Good points there. Adkins doesn't seem to have got the balance right at the moment, do you think he has an ace up his sleeve for jan or we simply have to get the best out of what we have?

[saintrich]

I think Yoshida has looked decent and does not need replacing.

To improve defensively we need to learn how to defend better as a unit and when and when not to drop off.

West Brom beat Liverpool and Everton (keeping clean sheets) with a defence of:

Steven Reid (RB) Gareth McAueley (CB) Jonas Olsson (CB) Liam Ridgewell (LB)

McAuley spent a lot of his career at a lower level. Lots of people on here were slagging Ridgewell off on here when a few suggested to sign him. Reid was a midfielder converted to right back and Olsson is probably the best out of the three.

Obviously the above defence defend well as a unit and have spent longer together and there is the difference.

I don't think necessarily we need to look at 'who' we should get in, because certain players aren't up to it, but just concentrate on working better as a unit.

Norwich have signed Bassong, Turner and Garrido in the summer, all with prem experience and it still doesn't stop them looking like a calamity at times...

[S-Clarke]

Good points there. Adkins doesn't seem to have got the balance right at the moment, do you think he has an ace up his sleeve for jan or we simply have to get the best out of what we have?

In terms of a defensive shape, we looked better against Fulham, and to a degree for the most part of the Everton game. I think we are improving, we certainly weren't as open on Sunday anyway. I also think it'll be a case of the opposition not having the same level of players who could hurt us, we've been up against some of the best in the last 2 months so any weakness we have are exposed and hung out to dry in big red writing.

[Turkish]

In terms of a defensive shape, we looked better against Fulham, and to a degree for the most part of the Everton game. I think we are improving, we certainly weren't as open on Sunday anyway. I also think it'll be a case of the opposition not having the same level of players who could hurt us, we've been up against some of the best in the last 2 months so any weakness we have are exposed and hung out to dry in big red writing.

I honestly think against Fulham we were unlucky with injuries. If we'd have had a proper right back we'd have won. Yoshida wasn't comfortable there, not his fault he isn't a full back, but Fulham targeted that weakness. Plus Hooliveld wouldn't have come on and he's really struggled this season.

[lloydie]

Yoshida is part of the answer, i mean he's definately the answer for us at the time being untill we can attract the vidics / kompanys of the world (not for a few years yet )he will do us well. So far he's looked decent next to fonte. Would rather adress the LB situation then the CB one. And as others have said its down to shape, individual errors, etc too.

[Colinjb]

When will people get it... The problem is more about our defensive shape and set up more than. Individual players

Curiously, the opposite of this was mooted by Gary Neville during his analysis of the Arsenal game, his comment was that our shape was fundamentally fine but individual errors were ultimately costing us.

The Fulham game seems to bare this out, Hooiveld didn't need to pounce on the ball for their first goal, it was going wide. It also took a deflection to breach us a second time, although the failure to track/cut out the run down the right and then allow Richardson space to shoot in front of the area was questionable.

Yoshida looked good in terms of his positioning/mobility at full back but his short/medium range distribution was terrible, against Villa he looked dominant. Even taking out the Arsenal game where he was thrown in at the deep end, He needs to be judged on more then these two games.

[S-Clarke]

I honestly think against Fulham we were unlucky with injuries. If we'd have had a proper right back we'd have won. Yoshida wasn't comfortable there, not his fault he isn't a full back, but Fulham targeted that weakness. Plus Hooliveld wouldn't have come on and he's really struggled this season.

Yep, fair point. We can't really afford to have injuries in the positions we did have on Sunday.

Gaston, I'm sure, would have given us a little more calmness in the middle at times as well.

[Window Cleaner]

I honestly think against Fulham we were unlucky with injuries. If we'd have had a proper right back we'd have won. Yoshida wasn't comfortable there, not his fault he isn't a full back, but Fulham targeted that weakness. Plus Hooliveld wouldn't have come on and he's really struggled this season.

thinking on full backs, Japan's left back in the game last night was sh*t hot. Probably playing in Germany though .

[hypochondriac]

thinking on full backs, Japan's left back in the game last night was sh*t hot. Probably playing in Germany though .

Name?

[saint si]

The football manager Generation.

And it's also the Harry Redknapp school of management. Getting the best out of what you already have does not even register as being an option. Moan moan moan about needing new players all the time.

[Window Cleaner]

Name?

Nagatomo, plays for Inter apparently.

[miserableoldgit]

I honestly think against Fulham we were unlucky with injuries. If we'd have had a proper right back we'd have won. Yoshida wasn't comfortable there, not his fault he isn't a full back, but Fulham targeted that weakness. Plus Hooliveld wouldn't have come on and he's really struggled this season.

I am getting very confused as to what opinion I should have. I thought that earlier in the season Fonte was a donkey and we needed someone to replace him because Jos was doing O.K. Tricky job, this having an opinion thing.

[labibs]

Nagatomo, plays for Inter apparently.

Yep and he's class. I agree about our shape to an extent, but feel it's that coupled with individual errors. We do tend to leave our fullbacks isolated and that is where we can be hurt. We are also making individual errors at the back as well. I think Yoshida is good, he has the pace needed for a CB at this level. Where are the other centre backs that: a)better than what we have, b) willing to come here & c) willing to accept wages at our level? Particularly given our start, it's not going to be that simple to attract top class players to our club.

[ottery st mary]

I am getting very confused as to what opinion I should have. I thought that earlier in the season Fonte was a donkey and we needed someone to replace him because Jos was doing O.K. Tricky job, this having an opinion thing.

Thank God this forum has no imput on selection matters

Mind you some really think they know more than NA, you and me..

[JackFrost]

Do we even know what our strongest defensive line up is at the moment? Is it

Clyne-Yoshida-Fonte-Richardson

or

Fox-Yoshida-Fonte-Clyne

I think Boruc will make a big difference as well IMO

[Sour Mash]

Our back 4 of Clyne - Fontee - Yoshida - Fox really aint that bad. We've had three problems this season defensively. Main one was our midfield giving them enough protection, particularly down the flanks. Secondly, the ridiculous number of injuries suffered by our defernders. Good defences are built from being settled, good communication, partnerships etc, look how many changes and players playing out of position we've had to suffer with all season. Thirdly - poor individual mistakes; these are partly as a result of the earlier two points, partly as a result of tiredness/panic playing against quality opposition and partly a run of bad luck. Our defence will get better, I am confident of that.

[doddisalegend]

Personally from what I've seen of him this season Yoshida is the best CB we have...........

[swannymere]

i think luke shaw is the only one that could do that.

on his way to arsenal if you believe the daily mail

wooooooossshhh

[Crab Lungs]

When will people get it... The problem is more about our defensive shape and set up more than. Individual players

You're absolutely right... but 'tards keep having a pop at the defence :-/

[sammysaint]

I really think Yoshida if had a bit more pace would be a quality CB.

[shurlock]

Nagatomo, plays for Inter apparently.

Nagatomo is one of the best LBs in the world- can cover the whole left hand side for 90 mins without breaking sweat. His youtube highlights alone are worth a watch.
Japan is slowly but surely assembling a decent team - could probably beat England atm. Any player associated with the national team is no slouch.

[OttawaSaint]

Every season a new bellend emerges from the shadows, this year the award goes to MRX...

[simo]

Kolo toure

[Crab Lungs]

Nagatomo is one of the best LBs in the world- can cover the whole left hand side for 90 mins without breaking sweat. His youtube highlights alone are worth a watch.
Japan is slowly but surely assembling a decent team - could probably beat England atm. Any player associated with the national team is no slouch.

Technically, they're far superior ... you're probably right as well, they'd probably turn England over and if they didn't, they'd still be the more impressive of the two sides.

[VectisSaint]

I really think Yoshida if had a bit more pace would be a quality CB.

He is quick for a CB, I don't think pace is an issue for him. Don't see much wrong with him at all to be frank, just can't play at RB.

[VectisSaint]

Technically, they're far superior ... you're probably right as well, they'd probably turn England over and if they didn't, they'd still be the more impressive of the two sides.

And don't forget they are missing Chung.

[Saint Garrett]

Personally from what I've seen of him this season Yoshida is the best CB we have...........

This. Reads the game very well and quite quick. Considerably better than what we had previously.

[Dig Dig]

Weird thread at a weird time

[kpturner]

Weird thread at a weird time

The OP seems to be developing a habit for starting them.

[Window Cleaner]

And don't forget they are missing Chung.

Havenaar was awful last night, couldn't do anything right, in fact he didn't do anything at all. French commentators decided he was a Sunday league player and Wenger didn't disagree.So as soon a Chung can get fit and get a few games he'll be back in the team. Wouldn't be surprised if he asks for a move in January if we don't play him at all.

[VectisSaint]

Havenaar was awful last night, couldn't do anything right, in fact he didn't do anything at all. French commentators decided he was a Sunday league player and Wenger didn't disagree.So as soon a Chung can get fit and get a few games he'll be back in the team. Wouldn't be surprised if he asks for a move in January if we don't play him at all.

Why would we not play him? I think NA would play him if he was not injured, and given his latest injury was self-inflicted he has no-one to blame but himself. I think we will see him play quite frequently, in my opinion him and SRL up front is the best option, with Mayuka probably interchanging with Chung.

[Window Cleaner]

Why would we not play him? I think NA would play him if he was not injured, and given his latest injury was self-inflicted he has no-one to blame but himself. I think we will see him play quite frequently, in my opinion him and SRL up front is the best option, with Mayuka probably interchanging with Chung.

But that's a team without Rodriguez and that just won't happen. JRod will be played wherever and whenever there's a place to fill, ostensible sign that we're encouraging young English talent. In my opinion Tad's days with the Saints are numbered, more's the pity. Good player.

[dronskisaint]

Our back 4 of Clyne - Fontee - Yoshida - Fox really aint that bad. We've had three problems this season defensively. Main one was our midfield giving them enough protection, particularly down the flanks. Secondly, the ridiculous number of injuries suffered by our defernders. Good defences are built from being settled, good communication, partnerships etc, look how many changes and players playing out of position we've had to suffer with all season. Thirdly - poor individual mistakes; these are partly as a result of the earlier two points, partly as a result of tiredness/panic playing against quality opposition and partly a run of bad luck. Our defence will get better, I am confident of that.

Well summed up, all of these are relevant and pretty much characterise how quickly we have needed to climb the learning curve against pretty much the hardest combination of matches that we are likely to have this season.

[lordswoodsaints]

The answer to our defensive problems is not currently at our club,we had a season to pinpoint what we needed to bring in for a premier campaign but failed and I'm guessing that we will now struggle to bring in somebody in January as clubs are reluctant to let decent players go.