Black Managers

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29348903

Football authorities coming under pressure for not seriously looking at implementing a 'Rooney Rule' type system to encourage clubs to hire non-white coaches and managers.

Personally I think that there aren't enough black and ethnic managers in the Football League, but I don't think you can force clubs to interview candidates purely based on their ethnicity. The best man for the job is the best man for the job, if there aren't enough coaches and managers from different ethnic backgrounds maybe we should look at putting more money into coaching and giving people of different ethnicities a way into the game?

Be interesting to compare the ratios to other Europeans leagues.

When considering the Malky Mackay and Iain Moody scandal, it's difficult not to ponder how widespread racist attitudes might be in the British game - and we're supposed to be one of the more enlightened nations when it comes to race relations.

Positive discrimination is distasteful. All things being equal, it shouldn't exist. All things are not equal. There's sometimes there's a case to be made for getting better representation in organisations to try to break institutional habits over the long term.

Maybe the coppers on the board have a view on that. We only see the worst stories about the OB and racism; has positive discrimination worked?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29348903

 

Football authorities coming under pressure for not seriously looking at implementing a 'Rooney Rule' type system to encourage clubs to hire non-white coaches and managers.

 

Personally I think that there aren't enough black and ethnic managers in the Football League, but I don't think you can force clubs to interview candidates purely based on their ethnicity. The best man for the job is the best man for the job, if there aren't enough coaches and managers from different ethnic backgrounds maybe we should look at putting more money into coaching and giving people of different ethnicities a way into the game?

Why aren't there enough black and ethnic managers in the Football League? Are you not concerned about the lack of English managers at the top level of the game?

Not sure why there aren't enough black and ethnic managers. Like Pap said, there could be something in the football hierarchy working against them, or it could be that we've only really seen a larger proportion of black and ethnic players in the Football League within the last 30 years or so, and that things will even themselves out further down the line as players retire and take up coaching. Who knows?

Also there are plenty of English managers around who could do a job in the Prem. Big clubs don't want to take the chance on hiring a young British coach when they can hire somebody experienced from abroad who will be more of a sure thing.

Not sure why there aren't enough black and ethnic managers. Like Pap said, there could be something in the football hierarchy working against them, or it could be that we've only really seen a larger proportion of black and ethnic players in the Football League within the last 30 years or so, and that things will even themselves out further down the line as players retire and take up coaching. Who knows?

 

Also there are plenty of English managers around who could do a job in the Prem. Big clubs don't want to take the chance on hiring a young British coach when they can hire somebody experienced from abroad who will be more of a sure thing.

I mght have mis-phrased my question. What would be "enough" black and ethnc managers? Why do their numbers matter?

The numbers themselves don't really matter, but they are quite disproportionate even when compared to the population structure of the country, let alone those involved in the game. There's no real reason why there should be more diversity amongst managers and coaches apart from having a fair representation imo.

When considering the Malky Mackay and Iain Moody scandal, it's difficult not to ponder how widespread racist attitudes might be in the British game - and we're supposed to be one of the more enlightened nations when it comes to race relations.

 

Positive discrimination is distasteful. All things being equal, it shouldn't exist. All things are not equal. There's sometimes there's a case to be made for getting better representation in organisations to try to break institutional habits over the long term.

I agree with Pap

All you can ensure is equal opportunity.

The numbers themselves don't really matter, but they are quite disproportionate even when compared to the population structure of the country, let alone those involved in the game. There's no real reason why there should be more diversity amongst managers and coaches apart from having a fair representation imo.

I'd share "Kick It Out"'s concern if there was any evidence that suitably qualified non-white applicants were being overlooked for jobs. As it is, there are only around 200 UK residents with the UEFA Pro Licence, and of the 24 on the most recent course, only three are non-white.

It's easy for the likes of Jason Roberts and Sol Campbell to sit there and whinge when neither of them has shown the slightest inclination to get the qualifications that would make them suitable, and it's an attitude issue for ex-players of all races, colours and creeds - many of them feel that the game still owes them (despite it having made them all multi-millionaires in recent years) and that they don't need to put in hard work to get a coaching or management job.

Paul Ince is a perfect example of one of the issues, he was appointed as the Blackburn manager in 2008 and had to be given special dispensation by the Premier League as he didn't have the Pro Licence (which has been a PL requirement for a decade now). He is one of the three non-white candidates on THIS YEAR's Pro Licence course - it would appear that he just assumed he could get a job at the top level without the requisite qualifications. For someone who clearly put in the effort as a youngster to become a professional footballer in the first place, it seems odd that he would appear to be unwilling to put the same level of commitment into becoming a manager.

Gareth Southgate was another promoted way above his qualifications at the time - he didn't even have the UEFA "B" Licence when he was given the Middlesbrough job, and that's the third-level qualification! Until the FA and various leagues start actually enforcing their own rules about coaching qualifications, people will always assume they can get by on their name alone, and clubs will continue to foolishly employ people on the same basis.

The number of white English players are disproportionate to the population structure, should measures be taken to increase their numbers?

I don't think they are, at least not to the same level that black and ethnic people are within the coaching structure. But I know you're being facetious so i'll let you off

there is a huge shortage of asian managers too

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29348903

 

Football authorities coming under pressure for not seriously looking at implementing a 'Rooney Rule' type system to encourage clubs to hire non-white coaches and managers.

 

Personally I think that there aren't enough black and ethnic managers in the Football League, but I don't think you can force clubs to interview candidates purely based on their ethnicity. The best man for the job is the best man for the job, if there aren't enough coaches and managers from different ethnic backgrounds maybe we should look at putting more money into coaching and giving people of different ethnicities a way into the game?

If they were good enough they would get the job, there isnt enough that are good enough unfortunately. Unrelated the FA need to reduce the entry fee to coaching courses accross the board though.

In fact, I think its completely related, the courses need to be affordable to all, then we may catch up with the other european nations levels of qualified professionals and also hopefully increase the amount of 'minorities' involved in the game.

Overall though, the whole 'lack of black managers' is crap, im sure if there were black managers with the correct pedigree and experience they'd be being interviewed.

Overall though, the whole 'lack of black managers' is crap, im sure if there were black managers with the correct pedigree and experience they'd be being interviewed.

I find it difficult to be so certain. It's a funny old game, bucking all kinds of trends.

There are almost no gay footballers, despite the fact that statistically, we should have seen a lot more.

We've been repeatedly fed the line that racism is a foreign disease, yet suffer the paradox of dinosaurs like Malky Mackay and Iain Moody using modern technology to propagate backward prejudice, or Big Ron Atkinson explaining that one of his black players was "is what is known in some schools as a fúcking lazy thick n***er". Apart from the occasional sheik, the game is a Western European, mostly British White playground.

I'm sure Karren Brady is a supremely accomplished business person, but the main reason she gets the limelight is because of her unusual gender for the industry. People recall a TV show called the Manageress with fondness. It's central conceit was the marvelous idea that a lady might be able to manage a football team! Fancy that!

The NBA has been miles ahead of us for years in terms of having black coaches (Bill Russell won titles in the 1960s), but they've still got a majority of white coaches despite having a majority of black players.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/5/16/5723170/nba-race-problem-coaches-gms-owners

In fact, I think its completely related, the courses need to be affordable to all, then we may catch up with the other european nations levels of qualified professionals and also hopefully increase the amount of 'minorities' involved in the game.

 

Overall though, the whole 'lack of black managers' is crap, im sure if there were black managers with the correct pedigree and experience they'd be being interviewed.

Exactly. If someone like Thierry Henry stated his interest in a job, you can bet he would get a managerial position somewhere in the pyramid pretty sharpish. It has nothing to do with the colour of their skin and everything to do with there not being enough decent black candidates.

I notice this issue hasn't reared it's ugly head recently. It's weird that despite all the nasty bias against black managers that Chris Houghton is doing so well. I'm sure that if he left tomorrow he would walk into a number of other jobs. It's almost as if he has been judged on his ability to manage rather than the colour of his skin...