Pelle's yellow card at Stoke

So Pelle appeared to leap into the Saints away crowd after scoring the final goal and the ref waited patiently for his return to the pitch before giving Pelle a yellow card.

Does this one matter being in the League Cup?

Course it does, all domestic cards count towards each other.

Case and point, Bardsley got his 5th yellow in the same game and is now suspended for this weekends game.

It's a ridiculous rule, and is one of the reasons teams often field weakened teams in the cups. Just like for european cups, yellows/reds and their resulting suspensions should apply for cup matches only. Maybe two yellows for a suspension, with amnesty near the latter stages (e.g. semi-finals).

It's a ridiculous rule, and is one of the reasons teams often field weakened teams in the cups. Just like for european cups, yellows/reds and their resulting suspensions should apply for cup matches only. Maybe two yellows for a suspension, with amnesty near the latter stages (e.g. semi-finals).

regardless

it was a great celebration

was thinking the other day....

whilst i regard that osvaldo goal v man city as one of the coolest highlights of the 2013/14 season... even if pelle didnt score one more goal this season he has proven himself infinetely better than osvaldo....fark knows how pelle never made the italy squad sooner...

regardless

 

it was a great celebration

 

was thinking the other day....

 

whilst i regard that osvaldo goal v man city as one of the coolest highlights of the 2013/14 season... even if pelle didnt score one more goal this season he has proven himself infinetely better than osvaldo....fark knows how pelle never made the italy squad sooner...

because he has been playing in a very weak league and before that, been gash

We need him to get a another yellow against Hull or Leicester so he's not suspended for the man city game.

We need him to get a another yellow against Hull or Leicester so he's not suspended for the man city game.

If he does not get a yellow he will not be suspended so its immaterial

It's a ridiculous rule, and is one of the reasons teams often field weakened teams in the cups. Just like for european cups, yellows/reds and their resulting suspensions should apply for cup matches only. Maybe two yellows for a suspension, with amnesty near the latter stages (e.g. semi-finals).

Its not a ridiculous rule at all. In cup games, one team is going to be knocked out so if yellow cards didn't count towards suspension for one team, what sanction would, there be? As for Pelle, like players who get booked for taking their shirts off, they all know the rules so why damage the team by acting so stupidly. To congratulate the player who has scored is one thing, but for the goal scorer to make an exhibition of himself, which has become an unwelcome feature of the modern game, is simply self-indulgence. We may lose points in a few weeks time as result of Pelle's booking, which will cast his behaviour at Stoke in a different light and could make a difference at the end of the season.

It's a ridiculous rule, and is one of the reasons teams often field weakened teams in the cups. Just like for european cups, yellows/reds and their resulting suspensions should apply for cup matches only. Maybe two yellows for a suspension, with amnesty near the latter stages (e.g. semi-finals).

As I recall.....The " goal celebration rule " came about because one or two players had additional advertising on a vest under the team shirt which wasn't a sponsor message - what a crime that is in today's soccer market?

Later it was adapted to cover all sorts of message and the latest interpretation of the rule seems to cover " excessive celebration ". Now I suppose it'll be down to the individual refs. to interpret that rule.

Was it "excessive " celebration?....or just the joy of scoring......I mean.... what do refs. expects players to do in celebration when they score an important goal ? Smile ....and wave to the crowd?

....go back to the post-war days. A goal scorer might be expected to wave his arms, smile or even ....shout. His team-mates might come and ruffle his hair, pat him on the back and say " well done, lad "

Now let's get back to the centre circle and get on with the game.

Its not a ridiculous rule at all. In cup games, one team is going to be knocked out so if yellow cards didn't count towards suspension for one team, what sanction would, there be? As for Pelle, like players who get booked for taking their shirts off, they all know the rules so why damage the team by acting so stupidly. To congratulate the player who has scored is one thing, but for the goal scorer to make an exhibition of himself, which has become an unwelcome feature of the modern game, is simply self-indulgence. We may lose points in a few weeks time as result of Pelle's booking, which will cast his behaviour at Stoke in a different light and could make a difference at the end of the season.

Celebrating an 89th minute winner with the fans is self indulgent? Really?

I much rather see players get booked for doing **** dance routines when they score rather than celebrating with their fans!

It was for going into the crowd, I would have thought. This is considered dangerous because it can cause a crowd surge with potentially dangerous consequences.

It was for going into the crowd, I would have thought. This is considered dangerous because it can cause a crowd surge with potentially dangerous consequences.

I remember Bristol City away in 2008 (I think) under George Burley. We were 2-0 down and Bradley Wright Phillips scored for us and the crowd went mental asif we'd just won the League. I got boiling hot tea spilt over my head!

I don't think any of Pelle's 4 bookings this season have been for fouls, which will make it all the more frustrating if/when he eventually gets another one and has to miss the next game.

I remember Bristol City away in 2008 (I think) under George Burley. We were 2-0 down and Bradley Wright Phillips scored for us and the crowd went mental asif we'd just won the League. I got boiling hot tea spilt over my head!

With my MLG head on unless the tea was spilled from the plugged in kettle it was not boiling HTBH

Its not a ridiculous rule at all. In cup games, one team is going to be knocked out so if yellow cards didn't count towards suspension for one team, what sanction would, there be?

They'd be suspended for the next match they were eligible (usually the next season), I don't see anything wrong with that. What's more silly is that teams who play more matches run the risk of having more players suspended for "totting up" offences which are calculated against a fixed date irrespective of the number of matches played.

I'm all in favour of competition-specific suspensions.

You also mention the shirt-celebration bookings - my problem with those is that "pulling up the shirt to show a message" is also a yellow card, and one of the main reasons for bringing that rule in, and it's very rarely enforced - Bony's done it in the last two matches without a booking. Admittedly his message was sensitive and non-political, but it's still against the laws.

It was for going into the crowd, I would have thought. This is considered dangerous because it can cause a crowd surge with potentially dangerous consequences.

"Leaving the playing area" in celebration (eg jumping the hoardings, running on the non-grass bit etc) is indeed considered a form of incitement.

As I recall.....The " goal celebration rule " came about because one or two players had additional advertising on a vest under the team shirt which wasn't a sponsor message - what a crime that is in today's soccer market?

 

Later it was adapted to cover all sorts of message and the latest interpretation of the rule seems to cover " excessive celebration ". Now I suppose it'll be down to the individual refs. to interpret that rule.

 

Was it "excessive " celebration?....or just the joy of scoring......I mean.... what do refs. expects players to do in celebration when they score an important goal ? Smile ....and wave to the crowd?

 

....go back to the post-war days. A goal scorer might be expected to wave his arms, smile or even ....shout. His team-mates might come and ruffle his hair, pat him on the back and say " well done, lad "

 

Now let's get back to the centre circle and get on with the game.

The yellow card for shirt removal came in to stop excessive celebrations around the early 2000s, and was modified not long after to include pulling shirts over heads and lifting the shirt without removing it (I'm expecting Bearsy along in a moment) to prevent players revealing slogans of all kinds. There's never been a justification from FIFA for the amended regulation, though they're keen to stamp out both hijack advertising and political slogans, and some people have also suggested some kind of religious sensitivity over showing torsos, which sounds a little... xenophobic.

Suffice to say you don't have to take the shirt off or even cover your head with it to get booked nowadays. Leaving the playing area is a separate safety-based offence to deter inciting supporters.

Its not a ridiculous rule at all. In cup games, one team is going to be knocked out so if yellow cards didn't count towards suspension for one team, what sanction would, there be? As for Pelle, like players who get booked for taking their shirts off, they all know the rules so why damage the team by acting so stupidly. To congratulate the player who has scored is one thing, but for the goal scorer to make an exhibition of himself, which has become an unwelcome feature of the modern game, is simply self-indulgence. We may lose points in a few weeks time as result of Pelle's booking, which will cast his behaviour at Stoke in a different light and could make a difference at the end of the season.

Meh, technically you're right as the booking could cause an important suspension later in the season. I've no problem with it really, it's always better to see the passion from the players after scoring a crucial goal. Think of it as a by-product of his intense desire to score and win the game for his team, you can't have one without the other. Fonte running across that running track to celebrate with the fans after scoring in injury time vs Brighton was one of the great memories of our League 1 promotion season.

I do agree that the yellow cards should count in all competitions though. It works both ways, you can be suspended in the league after being carded in the cup or vice versa.

Fonte running across that running track to celebrate with the fans after scoring in injury time vs Brighton was one of the great memories of our League 1 promotion season.

No, no, no. His team mates should have shook his hand, patted him on the back and then quickly assembled in their own half so that Brighton could restart the match.

Pathetic killjoy, risk-averse, jobsworth health and safety inspired rules like this are killing the game and atmosphere and distancing players from the public that pay their wages.

Recognition by the goal scorer that the chance was provided by the work of the team or by a particular assist always looks better than the personality cult that some players indulge in. Even a brilliant strike such as Pelle's first goal at Stoke was only possible because Matt Targett passed the ball to him in a central position instead of playing it out to a player free on the left. As Rob Brydon would say, "Its a team game" - Oh sorry, he says "It's not just a team game", anyway, you know what I mean.......

I'd have rather seen Pelle going over to Targett than climbing into the crowd.

I hate it when you see gangs of high-vis ****s stopping groups of players celebrating with fans. Celebrating with fans and colleagues are not mutually exclusive activities, either.

Pathetic killjoy, risk-averse, jobsworth health and safety inspired rules like this are killing the game and atmosphere and distancing players from the public that pay their wages.

Adrian, 96 people died at Hillsborough in 1989, men women and children who had simply gone to watch a game of football. Football fans need to be protected, even the ones who don't understand how important it is until something awful happens to them.

It's a **** rule, celebrating with your fans is brilliant, it's entertainment. It shouldn't be a yellow card.

Oi Prof have you never done anything spontaneous, have you never jumped into a pond ****ed or gone out for the paper to cone home two days later.

Other sports allow it, the Scottish bloke winning Wimbledon, he climbed up the stand.

Adrian, 96 people died at Hillsborough in 1989, men women and children who had simply gone to watch a game of football. Football fans need to be protected, even the ones who don't understand how important it is until something awful happens to them.

Shameful. That was nothing to do with celebration and everything to do with **** policing, ban the police.

Shameful. That was nothing to do with celebration and everything to do with **** policing, ban the police.

Flames is right Prof. There were many thousands in the ground who shouldn't have been and then cops refused to open the fences.

Shameful. That was nothing to do with celebration and everything to do with **** policing, ban the police.

It was indeed and the inquest is currently examining police failings, but it also raised important health and safety issues in football grounds that need to be supported, not undermined. Many fans are young, inexperienced and easily carried away by the atmosphere so that their protection is crucial.

It was indeed and the inquest is currently examining police failings, but it also raised important health and safety issues in football grounds that need to be supported, not undermined. Many fans are young, inexperienced and easily carried away by the atmosphere so that their protection is crucial.

What a load of old nonsense. It happened many times before Hillsborough. It will happen again. A player celebrating scoring a goal won't cause it.

Law 12 interpretation (from the FA):

Celebration of a goal

While it is permissible for a player to demonstrate his joy when a goal has been

scored, the celebration must not be excessive.

Reasonable celebrations are allowed, but the practice of choreographed

celebrations is not to be encouraged when it results in excessive time-wasting

and referees are instructed to intervene in such cases.

A player must be cautioned if:

• in the opinion of the referee, he makes gestures which are provocative,

derisory or inflammatory

• he climbs on to a perimeter fence to celebrate a goal being scored

• he removes his shirt or covers his head with his shirt

• he covers his head or face with a mask or other similar item

Leaving the field of play to celebrate a goal is not a cautionable offence in itself

but it is essential that players return to the fi eld of play as soon as possible.

Referees are expected to act in a preventative manner and to exercise common

sense in dealing with the celebration of a goal.

So the Lone Ranger would be booked if he played. Didn't know about that one Tonto.

Pathetic killjoy, risk-averse, jobsworth health and safety inspired rules like this are killing the game and atmosphere and distancing players from the public that pay their wages.

I don't think it makes the blindest difference to atmosphere or the euphoria of a goal celebration whether a player takes his shirt off or jumps over a fence, with the exception of possibly the 10 people in the immediate vicinity of the goalscorer who might get a hand slap or something. Not one single other person feels slighted or less joyous because they're spontaneously celebrating the goal itself, not how the players are enjoying it.

Adrian, 96 people died at Hillsborough in 1989, men women and children who had simply gone to watch a game of football. Football fans need to be protected, even the ones who don't understand how important it is until something awful happens to them.

It had absolutely sod all to do with celebrating a goal, seeing as there weren't any.

There was a contributory crush in the first few minutes when Liverpool nearly scored, but that was due to the overpopulation of the central area, nothing to do with a goal celebration, which is what we're actually discussing.

This is a total red herring of an argument at any match in any ground in which crowds are of an appropriate size to the area they have been put in, which is all grounds in Britain for the past 20+ years.

It is a ridiculous rule, if the player wants to celebrate with the fans near the front, he should. But no, let's clamp down on spontaneous celebrations and be really f**king boring.

What a load of old nonsense. It happened many times before Hillsborough. It will happen again. A player celebrating scoring a goal won't cause it.

Actually I'd say a player celebrating a goal could very well cause it, but only in a ground completely inappropriately designed or used to hold the crowd within it, which is prevented by a lot of other regulations, removing the need to implement this "anti-celebration" rule for that particular purpose.

It is a ridiculous rule, if the player wants to celebrate with the fans near the front, he should. But no, let's clamp down on spontaneous celebrations and be really f**king boring.

The rules are posted above, there's nothing stopping players doing that unless he makes provocative or inflammatory gestures or climbs onto a perimeter fence.

Computer says nooooo

zzzzzzzz

So the Lone Ranger would be booked if he played. Didn't know about that one Tonto.

That particular part of the regulation was a direct response to Facundo Sava's Lone Ranger mask and Jonas Gutierrez's Spiderman hood, which are both patently foooking stupid.

Computer says nooooo

 

zzzzzzzz

Poster doesn't appear to understand nuanced argument.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Law 12 interpretation (from the FA):

Celebration of a goal

While it is permissible for a player to demonstrate his joy when a goal has been

scored, the celebration must not be excessive.

Reasonable celebrations are allowed, but the practice of choreographed

celebrations is not to be encouraged when it results in excessive time-wasting

and referees are instructed to intervene in such cases.

A player must be cautioned if:

• in the opinion of the referee, he makes gestures which are provocative,

derisory or inflammatory

• he climbs on to a perimeter fence to celebrate a goal being scored

• he removes his shirt or covers his head with his shirt

• he covers his head or face with a mask or other similar item

Leaving the field of play to celebrate a goal is not a cautionable offence in itself

but it is essential that players return to the fi eld of play as soon as possible.

Referees are expected to act in a preventative manner and to exercise common

sense in dealing with the celebration of a goal.

 

So the Lone Ranger would be booked if he played. Didn't know about that one Tonto.

As would Batman...

Poster doesn't appear to understand nuanced argument.

 

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Do be quiet.

Recognition by the goal scorer that the chance was provided by the work of the team or by a particular assist always looks better than the personality cult that some players indulge in. Even a brilliant strike such as Pelle's first goal at Stoke was only possible because Matt Targett passed the ball to him in a central position instead of playing it out to a player free on the left. As Rob Brydon would say, "Its a team game" - Oh sorry, he says "It's not just a team game", anyway, you know what I mean.......

I'd have rather seen Pelle going over to Targett than climbing into the crowd.

The yellow card for shirt removal came in to stop excessive celebrations around the early 2000s, and was modified not long after to include pulling shirts over heads and lifting the shirt without removing it (I'm expecting Bearsy along in a moment) to prevent players revealing slogans of all kinds. There's never been a justification from FIFA for the amended regulation, though they're keen to stamp out both hijack advertising and political slogans, and some people have also suggested some kind of religious sensitivity over showing torsos, which sounds a little... xenophobic.

 

Suffice to say you don't have to take the shirt off or even cover your head with it to get booked nowadays. Leaving the playing area is a separate safety-based offence to deter inciting supporters.

Fantastic...(thanks for the input The9)....that sounded really impressive.....if only players and officials understood how it was meant to work, it's be a perfect world.

Meh, technically you're right as the booking could cause an important suspension later in the season. I've no problem with it really, it's always better to see the passion from the players after scoring a crucial goal. Think of it as a by-product of his intense desire to score and win the game for his team, you can't have one without the other. Fonte running across that running track to celebrate with the fans after scoring in injury time vs Brighton was one of the great memories of our League 1 promotion season.

 

I do agree that the yellow cards should count in all competitions though. It works both ways, you can be suspended in the league after being carded in the cup or vice versa.

Pelle deserves no criticism at all over this booking. It's a daft interpretation of the laws of the game anyway but more to the point he did so because he is playing in a team that really cares and who were relieved to get over the shock of losing a two goal lead. An extravagant celebration was merited. Of course, we could instead not score goals; not win games and then the problem would be solved!

As would Batman...

Oh no, don't get him started. Surprised Edgar Davids was not booked every game.

When I said it's a ridiculous rule above, I meant mixing cautions for leagues and domestic cups. Pelle's yellow for jumping into the crowd is a different issue.

They'd be suspended for the next match they were eligible (usually the next season), I don't see anything wrong with that. What's more silly is that teams who play more matches run the risk of having more players suspended for "totting up" offences which are calculated against a fixed date irrespective of the number of matches played.

 

I'm all in favour of competition-specific suspensions.

 

You also mention the shirt-celebration bookings - my problem with those is that "pulling up the shirt to show a message" is also a yellow card, and one of the main reasons for bringing that rule in, and it's very rarely enforced - Bony's done it in the last two matches without a booking. Admittedly his message was sensitive and non-political, but it's still against the laws.

Bingo. World cup bookings and suspensions are closed shop, ditto EUFA internationals, ditto european cups. It can work just as well for domestic cups. If a team gets knocked out early, yellow cards/suspensions can carry over to next year's competition if they want.

Meh, technically you're right as the booking could cause an important suspension later in the season. I've no problem with it really, it's always better to see the passion from the players after scoring a crucial goal. Think of it as a by-product of his intense desire to score and win the game for his team, you can't have one without the other. Fonte running across that running track to celebrate with the fans after scoring in injury time vs Brighton was one of the great memories of our League 1 promotion season.

 

I do agree that the yellow cards should count in all competitions though. It works both ways, you can be suspended in the league after being carded in the cup or vice versa.

Another reason not to mix cup and league cautions. For example, Chelski have a PL match on Saturday, and Costa is on 4 yellows. He deliberately swears at the ref to get a 5th booking, gets suspended for a cushy home match in the FA Cup midweek against some bottom-dwelling 2nd division team, and is back to zero yellows for the next PL match.

Personally I think his booking was a bit harsh......considering he didn't get booked for this celebration for Feyenoord against Ajax......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zPOEQPWveM&feature=youtu.be