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Elia was a problem until arriving at Saints.....Is Koeman the answer to Osvaldo?


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I was just having a thought, and it is probably a bit early to discuss.

 

And I conceed that Osvaldo has been spoken of and discussed elsewhare.

 

But Elia was apparently a problem for Werder Bremen and comes to us with a checkered past and a bad-boy reputation and report say that 'they were happy to see the back of him.' But there must be something there for Roko to take a look at him and decide to give him a chance. and lets be honest, after scoring the first goal, he looks like he appreciated the chance to shine again.

 

I conceed the fact that they are both Dutch and Roko has probably come across him before, but do you think that after taming the 'savage beast that dwells within' Elia, he could do the same for Osvaldo? Could he convince Pablo to come back and perform? Show him that if he didn't do something, he'll end up out of contract, out the door, and out of pocket as no one in their right mind would want him? Or that if he wants a big move, he needs to prove himself in the Shop window?

 

I don't know. It's a lot of speculation.

 

What do you all think? Lost cause, or salvageable?

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Very different situation. Elia appears to accept his faults / acknowledge that he needs to succeed here, and find a medium term home, or else he has wasted most of the best years of his career. Our Dani seems to accept no such thing. Add to that he has played for Juve and Inter while "cast into the wilderness" and I doubt for one moment that he thinks he needs to be "salvaged"

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I suspect RK knew that beneath all of Elia's problems there was a great player struggling to break out, and RK was confident, given his knowledge of him, that he could help him unlock his inner Ronaldo. Osvaldo, in all probability, is a completely different kettle of worms. A conundrum wrapped in an enigma bundled up with who the hell cares about a player and individual so apparently, nihilistically destructive.

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Dani was fine in the first few weeks as well

 

Wait until Elia gets comfortable, susses out where the lap dancing clubs are and thinks RK isnt watching anymore

 

This Elia has made a great start and looks focussed and committed but this has apparently happened before in his career. I really hope he keeps it up and we sign him as for the level of ability he is a bit of a bargain not many world cup finalists in their prime years available for the fee we have agreed. Remember Sagonowski if you want a reminder of how these things can go bad awesome on loan terrible when we signed him!

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Given that Elia was in Ajax's youth team in the early 2000s when Koeman was the first team manager, Koeman has a knowledge of Elia that he doesn't have of Osvaldo - in fact Pochettino had that level of Osvaldo and STILL couldn't handle him. So no, Koeman's policy with troublemakers seems to be "get rid" rather than risk it.

 

In addition, Elia is clearly grateful to Koeman for the opportunity after his career starting sliding from the 2010 World Cup Final, which can work wonders for attitude. Osvaldo has no such gratitude or inclination to change, and clearly doesn't feel that way towards Mancini at Inter either.

 

As for "it's his bird", I'm pretty sure that's not what causes Osvaldo's combustion on the pitch at all, which is the problem. Though it might be contributing to a bit of instability off it.

Edited by The9
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This Elia has made a great start and looks focussed and committed but this has apparently happened before in his career. I really hope he keeps it up and we sign him as for the level of ability he is a bit of a bargain not many world cup finalists in their prime years available for the fee we have agreed. Remember Saganowski if you want a reminder of how these things can go bad awesome on loan terrible when we signed him!

 

I had the same reservations about Bertrand, to be honest. 22 league games in and he's exceeding all my expectations. Elia has so far, too. Also, we're talking about talented young players with the very top achievements on their football CVs, not some fringe Polish international Championship signing.

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Elia is young, learning what works and what doesn't--off the pitch I mean. He's got a lot of help here because of the team ethic and everyone should benefit. Dani boy is different, completely, he is older, should know better by now and shows no sign of thinking there is anything to learn. High hopes for one and absolutely none for the other.

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Elia is young, learning what works and what doesn't--off the pitch I mean. He's got a lot of help here because of the team ethic and everyone should benefit. Dani boy is different, completely, he is older, should know better by now and shows no sign of thinking there is anything to learn. High hopes for one and absolutely none for the other.

 

Not that young, he's 28 next month. Should be in his prime.

 

Hopefully he'll see this as his last chance and and knuckle down and try and win back his place in the Dutch squad.

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Elia is young, learning what works and what doesn't--off the pitch I mean. He's got a lot of help here because of the team ethic and everyone should benefit. Dani boy is different, completely, he is older, should know better by now and shows no sign of thinking there is anything to learn. High hopes for one and absolutely none for the other.

 

Elia is 27, 28 next month and Osvaldo is 29. It's not the year that's different between them, it's their mentality. Osvaldo seems to reckon that he's a rockstar and that he is above us, or at least, that's the impression I got. He is arrogant in the extreme, whereas Elia seems to know that he has made mistakes and seems humble and ready to prove his worth. I got the impression that Osvaldo thought he'd proved his worth already and could get by on having had a few good spells in the Italian and Spanish leagues.

 

I would be surprised if the club haven't said to Elia that any altercations off the pitch will jeopardize his chances of being signed permanently, and he seems to have a good work ethic, so hopefully would look to avoid any such incidents. Still, as others have said, it's only been a couple of weeks.

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Elia is 27, 28 next month and Osvaldo is 29. It's not the year that's different between them, it's their mentality. Osvaldo seems to reckon that he's a rockstar and that he is above us, or at least, that's the impression I got. He is arrogant in the extreme, whereas Elia seems to know that he has made mistakes and seems humble and ready to prove his worth. I got the impression that Osvaldo thought he'd proved his worth already and could get by on having had a few good spells in the Italian and Spanish leagues.

 

I would be surprised if the club haven't said to Elia that any altercations off the pitch will jeopardize his chances of being signed permanently, and he seems to have a good work ethic, so hopefully would look to avoid any such incidents. Still, as others have said, it's only been a couple of weeks.

 

wow thanks, why did I think Elia was not much more than a boy. I've astrong feeling it will work well

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Disruptive influence that would destabilise the team ethic.....shame as he's an obvious a talent that RK could work wonders with but he's so far up his own backside that there's no hope for him....very expensive mistake. Poch seems to think so otherwise he'd be looking to sign him.

 

An overstated simplistic comment. It is too soon to pre-judge Elia at Saints.

 

I wish him well (though you seem not to)

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I've not really seen anything overly controversial regarding Elia. Mountains over molehills IMO.

 

Osvaldo is on a completely differen't level.

 

Though having said that, Osvaldo's latest supposed outburst and argument on the pitch with a teammate was completely overblown and happens all over the world every few matches with any striker who's even remotely in a decent position. It was a fraction of a second of yelling and then getting on with it - of course his position wasn't helped by Podolski being far better placed than him anyway.

 

I shall be hoping he starts against Torino on Sunday, I'll be keeping an eye on him.

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Elia is 27, 28 next month and Osvaldo is 29. It's not the year that's different between them, it's their mentality. Osvaldo seems to reckon that he's a rockstar and that he is above us, or at least, that's the impression I got. He is arrogant in the extreme, whereas Elia seems to know that he has made mistakes and seems humble and ready to prove his worth. I got the impression that Osvaldo thought he'd proved his worth already and could get by on having had a few good spells in the Italian and Spanish leagues.

 

I would be surprised if the club haven't said to Elia that any altercations off the pitch will jeopardize his chances of being signed permanently, and he seems to have a good work ethic, so hopefully would look to avoid any such incidents. Still, as others have said, it's only been a couple of weeks.

 

Agree with your summary of the two differently diverse characters of these players. Pochettino knew Osvaldo well and thought he could manage him and couldn't. Koeman doesn't know him and therefore has no particular reason for believing that he can be rehabilitated. Koeman is prepared to trust his own judgement over Elia, so I have some confidence in that.

 

Anyway, the conspiracy theories with Osvaldo hint that he came here as a deliberate stepping stone to Milan, who wouldn't have been allowed to buy him from Roma as a competitor and that he therefore engineered his departure by thumping Fonte.

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Anyway, the conspiracy theories with Osvaldo hint that he came here as a deliberate stepping stone to Milan, who wouldn't have been allowed to buy him from Roma as a competitor and that he therefore engineered his departure by thumping Fonte.

 

You'd think that at some point in the past 18 months when he's probably been available at a knock-down price he would have signed for Milan then? Instead of playing for two of their rivals. Also, at the point where he left Roma they were in the top 3 and Milan were scuffling around midtable, so it really makes no sense.

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I suspect RK knew that beneath all of Elia's problems there was a great player struggling to break out, and RK was confident, given his knowledge of him, that he could help him unlock his inner Ronaldo.

Osvaldo, in all probability, is a completely different kettle of worms. A conundrum wrapped in an enigma bundled up with who the hell cares about a player and individual so apparently, nihilistically destructive.

 

 

exactly

...and you could probably say the same about Toby Alderweireld sitting on the bench at Athletico Madrid....and Ryan Bertrand being loaned out to half-a-dozen clubs, yet being ignored by Mourinho..

 

Whatever Svengali-type power Koeman has over players, it darn well works.

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I always think this stuff is over-hyped and that the reality has more to do with football than personalities and egos. Elia has been here less than month, during which time he has played two good games and scored a couple of goals. He has also avoided saying anything daft on Twitter. This doesn't mean he is suddenly an angel who has been shown the light by Koeman, nor that he is now a much better player than he was six weeks ago. More likely is that he is (naturally) grateful for the fresh start, has come straight into a winning team (winning at OT on debut doesn't hurt) and consequently his confidence will now be up. Sadly, Osvaldo simply didn't play that well or score many goals when he came here. If he had then I expect there wouldn't have been many problems with him.

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Would he want to try, I doubt it he has got a very happy group of players at the club with Fonte as team captain and playing the best football of his Southampton career, take what ever we can get for him and put it down to a bad bit business and judgement.

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Elia is 27, 28 next month and Osvaldo is 29. It's not the year that's different between them, it's their mentality. Osvaldo seems to reckon that he's a rockstar and that he is above us, or at least, that's the impression I got. He is arrogant in the extreme, whereas Elia seems to know that he has made mistakes and seems humble and ready to prove his worth. I got the impression that Osvaldo thought he'd proved his worth already and could get by on having had a few good spells in the Italian and Spanish leagues.

 

I would be surprised if the club haven't said to Elia that any altercations off the pitch will jeopardize his chances of being signed permanently, and he seems to have a good work ethic, so hopefully would look to avoid any such incidents. Still, as others have said, it's only been a couple of weeks.

 

Osvaldo has yet to play more than 50 games with any club - a telling stat for a 29 YO.

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Could all be irrelevant if we sign Memphis Depay. :rolleyes:

 

After all he won't go to Liverpool or Arsenal as he'll want CL football next season.

 

Elia said something daft on Twitter, well actually it wasn't THAT daft, he said he was ready to do battle in an important match that in England would have been seen as him being motivated, just with him being in Germany it came out all wrong.

 

Then getting nicked for speeding at 3am? well, a fair few of our legends in the past have had their own runs ins, Guly, Beattie and others.

 

RK said he didn't believe he was a problem, that things had been taken out of proportion, that is VERY different from Osvaldo who has proven to everyone that he is a c()ck of the highest order, we are a unit, we are mates playing FOR each other rather than Millionaires playing WITH each other. He clearly fits in, and the whole ethic of #WeMarchOn, #TheSouthamptonWay is VERY different from the Lowe years and the likes of Saga,

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