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Post-Match Reaction: SAINTS 0-2 Liverpool


Saint-Armstrong

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Again, we played well without creating too much and that lack of confidence from not scoring is really evident after about 25 minutes. Felt that we needed a bit of luck yesterday to get that elusive goal, which would have been much easier if the ref had given at least one penalty before half time. Poor display by him and rightly derided for his ineptitude. Sorry to say it, but playing JWP behind the front man isn't working too well and he just isn't quite there yet. He's a good lad and a good player, but we need someone who can stamp a bit of authority in that position. It's so pivotal when playing long balls up for knock downs, which Pelle generally does well, but of course that "number 10" role is really hard to fill without spending shedloads of cash. We mix it up when attacking with long balls and working the channels, which is good, but there appears to be a bit of a headless chicken count in and around the box when a cross or pass from wide comes in - a lack of positional sense and options open to the wide man cause too many attacks to break down. Add that to an unwillingness for someone to put their laces through the ball and rifle in something for the keeper to save and it adds to our despair in front of goal. J Rod will provide more cohesion when he comes back although he will need a lot of game time to get backup to speed. Overall, disappointed that the 4th spot is slipping away from us and maybe not getting another striker option in during January will prove decisive in where we finish the season. Still, where we are is terrific and I hope the team respond well in the coming weeks when the spotlight is going to be on other teams.

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Djurijic and Elia both lightweight offering no real support to Pelle in chasing down defenders, no wonder Pelle gave up. Not a lot changed when Tadic and Mane came on, all good at doing a little dance with the ball but rarely took on and beat a defender .

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JWP is a tough one for me, he is undoubtably a great player, but I do think he needs a bit more bulk - having said that, his barge on Lallana was amusing.

 

He is a good lad, but I think he tries to do too much in that position, which dilutes his effectiveness. He could do with being a bit more selfish and directing the wide men more, too. Elia is still finding his feet in the team and is probably one of those lads that need to be gee'd up. Skipper Fonte can't do that from the back and we need whoever plays that number 10 role to be harder and more assertive.

 

You're right Patrick, he needs more muscle. And that barge was very amusing!

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Times have changed , "Big teams" now come to St Marys and park the bus ! Last season we had even worse Arsenalitis ie 70% possession and wanting to walk the ball into the net. We would all like someone to actually SHOOT at the goal .

Rodgers has lost respect with all that whinging about us not welcoming and praising the rats that jumped also for saying they moved to a bigger club .....

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Đuričić plays exactly like Tadic, who can't even get in the team. We were good yesterday but why on earth didn't we get a striker in January? It's very confusing. Gallagher has a long way to go, the club would know Jay Rod is struggling, and we all know Long us useless as a proper striker. And poor Pelle is knackered and his confidence is shot.

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Đuričić plays exactly like Tadic' date=' who can't even get in the team. We were good yesterday but why on earth didn't we get a striker in January? It's very confusing. Gallagher has a long way to go, the club would know Jay Rod is struggling, and we all know Long us useless as a proper striker. And poor Pelle is knackered and his confidence is shot.[/quote']

 

KBilly told us why, we don't have the money, why not? well who knows really, but clubs just don't loan out strikers capable of scoring in the PL; that's hard cash outlay.

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Đuričić plays exactly like Tadic' date=' who can't even get in the team[/b']. We were good yesterday but why on earth didn't we get a striker in January? It's very confusing. Gallagher has a long way to go, the club would know Jay Rod is struggling, and we all know Long us useless as a proper striker. And poor Pelle is knackered and his confidence is shot.

 

Not sure about that, Djuricic looks to be far more of a goal threat than Tadic. Time will tell, of course.

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KBilly told us why, we don't have the money, why not? well who knows really, but clubs just don't loan out strikers capable of scoring in the PL; that's hard cash outlay.

 

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't looking for a big signing (or even permanent signing at all), but heading into the back end of the month it was clear Pelle was struggling and we had no alternative. We found the money for Elia and Đuričić on loan - I'd have comfortably sacrificed the latter for a striker, whilst also acknowledging it can be harder to find a striker who can contribute in the Premier League. But it can be done, it's not impossible.

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This sort of quote from Brenda Rogers is why I can't stand the bloke.

 

 

On Southampton's second penalty appeal: "Sometimes decisions can go against you. I can see why Kevin didn't give it. The ball's getting away from Filip Djuricic and he pushes his body into Joe Allen. Then Joe swings at the ball and doesn't make contact. Kevin was excellent, he was under pressure from the crowd but he had great control of the game."

 

That's code for 'I can't believe we didn't give away at least two penalties and I'm still amazed that we had eleven players on the pitch at the end'. Calling him 'Kevin' is also significant.

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That's code for 'I can't believe we didn't give away at least two penalties and I'm still amazed that we had eleven players on the pitch at the end'. Calling him 'Kevin' is also significant.

 

rr60pw.jpg

 

Considering our recent form in front of goal I'm not overly confident we'd have stuck away any of the penalty shouts had they been given. And even if the keeper had rightly been sent off, again it may not have helped thinking back to how things panned out after the West Ham keeper walked, the scousers would have just shut up shop and frustrated us even more. But any chance you may have evaporates when you get a ref like that.

 

Wherever we finish this year it will be far higher than what I expected back in August, just hope we learn from a few of these harsh lessons.

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Here we go again, it was all the ref's fault. People need to face reality, if we need to rely on set pieces for goals to win games then we are in big trouble. This is looking like more than a blip and the blame game is kicking off. Maybe we aren't yet just good enough for top six, no shame in that if we finish as high as last year after the mauling we had last summer.

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Saints 0 Kevin Friend 2

 

Worst. Refereeing. Ever.

 

 

of course... referees are neutral and impartial - aren't they?..but I do find it a little disturbing :? .....that TWICE in the BBC report on the game,

 

Brendan Rodgers referred to the ref. by using his Christian name when complimenting the official of his handling of the game....:rolleyes: Nice one ..KEVIN !

Edited by david in sweden
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Here we go again, it was all the ref's fault. People need to face reality, if we need to rely on set pieces for goals to win games then we are in big trouble. This is looking like more than a blip and the blame game is kicking off. Maybe we aren't yet just good enough for top six, no shame in that if we finish as high as last year after the mauling we had last summer.

 

Who's saying it's all the ref's fault? Most recognise our problem is hitting the net, but the ref had a shocker.

 

Aint it about time you f*cked off back to the Emirates again?

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Watching the Djuricic incident in the 1st minute again, have to say I don't think that was a penalty and really disappointed that Djuricic chose to go down in that situation.

 

His first touch was great and he was clean through on goal. What a start that could have been for his Saints career, but he chose to go down and try and get defender sent off instead of backing himself to score. Maybe another player with a lack of confidence in goalscoring positions?

 

That said, the second incident after Liverpool scored was a nailed on penalty and outrageous that the ref didn't give it.

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While we are struggling a bit and recent defeats have been our own fault....I thought Friend was appalling on the day, but watching it back...:o

 

By the standards of other penalties given over the weekend it is quite clear that we should have had two, and they could have been down to nine men.

And while it was a difficult call for the handball outside the box, the keeper should have gone too.

 

Truly shocking refereeing, even by the standards of the division's worst official, well done to Koeman for not exploding.

 

So yes, we cannot score at the moment but I struggle to think of an occasion when a referee's poor performance has had such a dramatic effect on the result of a game.

Swings and roundabouts? - You show me a game from the last 100 years when we have benefited from the amount of consistent 'luck' that Liverpool were given yesterday.

 

That was one appalling performance too many, no player would survive that level of ineptitude, surely Friend is finished as an official?

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Watching the Djuricic incident in the 1st minute again, have to say I don't think that was a penalty and really disappointed that Djuricic chose to go down in that situation.

 

His first touch was great and he was clean through on goal. What a start that could have been for his Saints career, but he chose to go down and try and get defender sent off instead of backing himself to score. Maybe another player with a lack of confidence in goalscoring positions?

 

That said, the second incident after Liverpool scored was a nailed on penalty and outrageous that the ref didn't give it.

 

Yeah, he went down too easily for the first. I didn't think that was a penalty on first viewing. The 2nd though...nailed on. Just infuriating that we didn't get that. The other call, the handball...again wasn't really a penalty I didn't think.

 

The GK was lucky though, even though it touched his chest first...it still clearly went onto his hand and was pushed away due to that.....on another day, that could have had the same outcome as the Adrian incident. I think Elia should have done a lot more in the situation though.

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A lot of talk about the penalities not being given - second was blatant but for me, we should have scored anyway. Elia should have had two.

 

Besides, on current form, if a penalty had been given, we probably would have squared it

 

......as well as handball by the defender......and Mingolet carried the ball outside of the area, too.

 

As for their penalty call... when a lightweight defender is tackled by a heavyweight centre back, he'll always fall on his face...

....but Fonte did get the ball first... and at least the ref. was lose enough to see that one.

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The ref was appalling and we should definitely have had a penalty. But yes, it doesn't hide the paucity of our attacking play. Just floating it up to Pelle for him to lose it is not good enough. Still, it did show how short of being the full CL ticket we are. Have to say I think I'd prefer not to have to contend with the Europa League and the injuries/extra pressure it puts on us as a club if we are to fall short. Just look at Everton.

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Watching the Djuricic incident in the 1st minute again, have to say I don't think that was a penalty and really disappointed that Djuricic chose to go down in that situation.

 

His first touch was great and he was clean through on goal. What a start that could have been for his Saints career, but he chose to go down and try and get defender sent off instead of backing himself to score. Maybe another player with a lack of confidence in goalscoring positions?

 

That said, the second incident after Liverpool scored was a nailed on penalty and outrageous that the ref didn't give it.

 

I agree that it was disappointing he chose to dive but the Liverpool defender did grab his shoulder - that's more than enough to get a penalty at Anfield/Old Trafford etc.

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No nonsense write up by Rory Smith in The Times.

 

"Mourinho has stated time and time again in recent weeks that there is a conspiracy against Chelsea ... But there is not one game in which they have been as unfortunate as Koeman's team were."

 

He then goes on to describe each incident in detail over the next 5 paras.

 

"What stood out about Friend's performance was that his errors lay in not making decisions, rather than making erroneous ones, is that a function of the increasing pressure officials are under? Are they, subconsciously, picking out the path of least resistance?

 

"Whatever the reason, Friend may have had a profound effect on the battle for third and fourth."

Edited by Coxford_lou
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No nonsense write up by Rory Smith in The Times.

 

"Mourinho has stated time and time again in recent weeks that there is a conspiracy against Chelsea ... But there is not one game in which they have been as unfortunate as Koeman's team were."

 

He then goes on to describe each incident in detail over the next 5 paras.

 

"What stood out about Friend's performance was that his errors lay in not making decisions, rather than making erroneous ones, is that a function of the increasing pressure officials are under? Are they, subconsciously, picking out the path of least resistance?

 

"Whatever the reason, Friend may have had a profound effect on the battle for third and fourth."

 

Thanks for this - couldn't get behind the paywall.

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......as well as handball by the defender......and Mingolet carried the ball outside of the area, too.

 

As for their penalty call... when a lightweight defender is tackled by a heavyweight centre back, he'll always fall on his face...

....but Fonte did get the ball first... and at least the ref. was lose enough to see that one.

 

Not dismissing that we should have got a few moer decisions, it was a dreadful refereeing display - just stating that Elia in particular should have scored in the melee on the second pen and also should have scored when Mignolet handled outside the area.

 

This is as much of an issue, if not more of one, than us not being awarded penalties. A couple of poor finishes in the game, coupled with a reluctance to shoot at other points (mane when he raced into the box as an example, but there were others) cost us the game every bit as much as not getting two blatant penalties.

 

Am thinking against West Brom, that I'd quite like to see Shane Long up top and give Pelle a break. Long, with Mane plus one of Tadic/Elia/Djuricic will be a quick, mobile front line that could hopefully cause problems, hopefully with the solidarity of Morgan and Vic in the middle.

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Oh my god. Just as my blood pressure was getting back to normal levels, you post this... I don't think I can take any more Rogers, Lovren or Lallana comments on that game!

 

 

Which is why, no matter what, we needed not to lose yesterday. We put out the wrong team and now we'll not hear the end of it this side of Easter.

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Which is why, no matter what, we needed not to lose yesterday. We put out the wrong team and now we'll not hear the end of it this side of Easter.

 

Yeah, but if we finish above them in the league, we'll have the last laugh.

 

Every time I feel doubt, or annoyance, I remember we beat Man U at Old Trafford.

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Not dismissing that we should have got a few moer decisions, it was a dreadful refereeing display - just stating that Elia in particular should have scored in the melee on the second pen and also should have scored when Mignolet handled outside the area.

 

This is as much of an issue, if not more of one, than us not being awarded penalties. A couple of poor finishes in the game, coupled with a reluctance to shoot at other points (mane when he raced into the box as an example, but there were others) cost us the game every bit as much as not getting two blatant penalties.

 

fully agree with this. The non pen and handball decisions deflected attention away from Elia not taking those great opportunities. Add Pelle's lack of form, Tadic never shooting and Manes's explosive but hit and miss style and that's why we haven't won some tight games recently.

 

Fair play to Koeman for pointing that out (all be it without pointing fingers at players) rather than hiding behind criticism of refs, which is a cop out in my book. Stick the ball in the back of the net a couple of time as Elia possibly should have done and we don't even mention the ref.

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I thought the first one was a pen when I saw it live and I haven't seen anything since to say it wasn't, attacker cuts past the last defender with ball under control and moving into a clear goal scoring position, defender arrives late and off balance and in no position to play the ball, arm collides forcibly with the back of the attackers shoulder, attacker loses balance (or dives if you want to be cynical)and loses control of the ball, defender continues his run straight through the falling striker. The attacker did nothing to lose possession, the defender didn't play the ball, he was never in position to play the ball, and he clearly contacted the player (a pushing/staining/lunging hand on the forward's shoulder) ... it was a penalty all day long and a red card too.

 

No dispute about the second one though! The handball outside the area was pretty marginal and I can see how without technology the officials couldn't be sure, that's a rub of the green that's gone against us but no excuse for either pen though.

 

Without those key decisions it makes it hard to call the game, a worldy from Coutinho (and LOL at anyone putting that down to the keeper), and a super-soft second which was a catalogue of errors when we were chasing the game and looking at the replays 'Forster will be disappointed with that'. Thought we were good first half and not very good second half; funny selection in the middle, I would have had Reed over one of SD or JWP (what's with MS playing half a game? Surely you would start with your strongest team? Some case for saying that if he is on the pitch we are less likely to concede that first goal.,...

Subs were disappointing, they sat right back and we had nothing to change it .. the Southampton way?

 

Onwards and hopefully upwards, Bertrand's suspension has been very damaging and hopefully he will come back fit and rested and raring to make amends, 3-5-2 for me for the next two games. Big up to Fonte and Yoshi who were both excellent yesterday, big Vic also good, but beyond that we came up a little bit short yesterday in most areras.

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JWP is a tough one for me, he is undoubtably a great player, but I do think he needs a bit more bulk - having said that, his barge on Lallana was amusing.

Look at the difference in Morgan since the early days when he was a lightweight like JWP - looks a proper unit now

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I thought the first one was a pen when I saw it live and I haven't seen anything since to say it wasn't, attacker cuts past the last defender with ball under control and moving into a clear goal scoring position, defender arrives late and off balance and in no position to play the ball, arm collides forcibly with the back of the attackers shoulder, attacker loses balance (or dives if you want to be cynical)and loses control of the ball, defender continues his run straight through the falling striker. The attacker did nothing to lose possession, the defender didn't play the ball, he was never in position to play the ball, and he clearly contacted the player (a pushing/staining/lunging hand on the forward's shoulder) ... it was a penalty all day long and a red card too.

 

No dispute about the second one though! The handball outside the area was pretty marginal and I can see how without technology the officials couldn't be sure, that's a rub of the green that's gone against us but no excuse for either pen though.

 

I watched the important bits late last night and surprisingly I saw nothing to change my opinion from what I saw at the game. I can see why the first was not given and I just can't understand why Djuricic didn't take another stride and cross in front of Can whcih would have made the decision more clear-cut. There was slightly more than a hand on the shoulder as Can's right thigh comes into contact with Djuricic's left leg, but not enough to bring him down.

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Watching the Djuricic incident in the 1st minute again, have to say I don't think that was a penalty and really disappointed that Djuricic chose to go down in that situation.
Yes, Djuricic could have stayed up, but Can's hand was on his left shoulder pulling him back while in the Penalty Box.

 

Kane went down with less yesterday and was rewarded. I think Can took a calculated risk there and thought the referee wouldn't call a penalty in the first minute of the game. I hate that this is what it comes down to, but Djuricic was right to go down.

 

That said, the second incident after Liverpool scored was a nailed on penalty and outrageous that the ref didn't give it.
Was more blatant. Allen never even touched the ball and denied Djuricic what might have been a pretty easy scoring opportunity. Could have easily been a red.

 

Mignolet's call was tougher. I don't buy the "hit his chest first argument". He was clearly trying to stop the ball with his hands. However, the linesman wasn't able to get back quickly enough to get a good enough angle to determine Mignolet's position in the box. Replays show he was out barely, but that is with the benefit of the replay.

 

Lovren's handball gets called sometimes, sometimes not. As much as I hate Lovren, it wasn't intentional in my estimation. Even then sometimes it gets called. This time it didn't.

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Fair play to Koeman for pointing that out (all be it without pointing fingers at players) rather than hiding behind criticism of refs, which is a cop out in my book. Stick the ball in the back of the net a couple of time as Elia possibly should have done and we don't even mention the ref.

Ref yesterday would have disallowed goals and brought play back for penalty to be taken. He would probably then have delayed the taking of the penalty to allow Mignolet to pick his nose and Skate Johnson to pull his socks up and then sent our pen taker off for time wasting. The problem yesterday really was not just the penalties and the handball that he missed (and even the Liverpool penalty shout) but the number of bad, blatant fouls, especially by Can who should not have been on the pitch by this time, that were not given. I have seen some very bad refereeing in my time (and especially this season) but yesterday I felt standard fell to an all time low. I'm also sure that Lovren's booking probably did not warrant a booking, i think he just booked him because his name was Lovren, and well deserved on that front it was too.

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Djurcic is a featherweight at a reported 67 kg, puff of wind would send him ass over tit let alone a sturdy shove from Can, it was a penalty, then again so was José's challenge on Sterling.

 

I like his name. And I like his honesty:

 

"The first one I feel the contact, it was light contact but I fell down. The second one was more a penalty than the first one for sure. I feel his hand on my shoulder and I fell down.

 

"The first one was little bit light and this is England so there are a different type of criteria for the penalty, but the second one definitely."

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Ref yesterday would have disallowed goals and brought play back for penalty to be taken. He would probably then have delayed the taking of the penalty to allow Mignolet to pick his nose and Skate Johnson to pull his socks up and then sent our pen taker off for time wasting. The problem yesterday really was not just the penalties and the handball that he missed (and even the Liverpool penalty shout) but the number of bad, blatant fouls, especially by Can who should not have been on the pitch by this time, that were not given. I have seen some very bad refereeing in my time (and especially this season) but yesterday I felt standard fell to an all time low. I'm also sure that Lovren's booking probably did not warrant a booking, i think he just booked him because his name was Lovren, and well deserved on that front it was too.

 

You need to see the replays of that - not far off being a straight Red. High and late and very intentional (to stop JWP progress).

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Yes, Djuricic could have stayed up, but Can's hand was on his left shoulder pulling him back while in the Penalty Box.

 

Kane went down with less yesterday and was rewarded. I think Can took a calculated risk there and thought the referee wouldn't call a penalty in the first minute of the game. I hate that this is what it comes down to, but Djuricic was right to go down.

 

Sorry, but I don't accept he was "right to go down". The minimal contact from Can was nowhere near enough to seriously affect him going through and potentially scoring a goal. We need players in the team who are hungry to score goals and Djuricic seems to be more hungry to hit the deck at the slightest contact on this evidence. Even he seems to be half admitting the first one probably wasn't a pen in his comments (quoted by coxford_lou).

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Yes, Djuricic could have stayed up, but Can's hand was on his left shoulder pulling him back while in the Penalty Box.

 

Kane went down with less yesterday and was rewarded. I think Can took a calculated risk there and thought the referee wouldn't call a penalty in the first minute of the game. I hate that this is what it comes down to, but Djuricic was right to go down.

 

Was more blatant. Allen never even touched the ball and denied Djuricic what might have been a pretty easy scoring opportunity. Could have easily been a red.

 

Mignolet's call was tougher. I don't buy the "hit his chest first argument". He was clearly trying to stop the ball with his hands. However, the linesman wasn't able to get back quickly enough to get a good enough angle to determine Mignolet's position in the box. Replays show he was out barely, but that is with the benefit of the replay.

 

Lovren's handball gets called sometimes, sometimes not. As much as I hate Lovren, it wasn't intentional in my estimation. Even then sometimes it gets called. This time it didn't.

 

Mignolet's hand was well outside the area. I watched this bit again last night. The assistant on the far line was late getting back to his proper position. He starts off level with the last defender but they both beat him back by a few yards, and we're talking about Lovren and Skirtel here.

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It's not just Liverpool fans that I've been hearing sarky comments from today, it's everyone. They all seem to think we got what we deserved.

Totally gutted and completely deflated. I'm pretty sure the players saw the ref was giving us nothing and it affected our game. Worst result of the season.

Hate Rodgers so much.

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