Toby

Bad news if true.

Statement seems verifiable, nevertheless it's probably just the start of the summer horse trading, the purchase price in the

supposedly agreed deal is way too low for a player of his quality.

Bad news if true.

At least it isn't Spurs.

I think they'd have to get someone to sit with him , on his own he tends to chase the ball too much and gets a bit over run ! Which with the way they attack would leave them exposed! All Imo of course

I think it was displayed well against Burnley that he needs a good partner. Obviously he is fantastic but he can't dominate the midfield single handedly. We shut Burnely out completely when Big Vic came out to help him, and I can't think of many strong players in an Arsenal side composed mostly of garden gnomes, except that useless bag of ****e Mertesacker.

They will obviously pay the 1.5m to recall - absolute no brainer.

Then they can either keep a class player or sell him to anyone (including us) for a hell of a lot more than £6.8m.

What if he wants to stay with Koeman and Saints? Don't rule it out.

What if he wants to stay with Koeman and Saints? Don't rule it out.

We'll have to pay through the nose if they even agree to sell. If they think that they can get a better price for Miranda then they'll keep Toby and Diego Godin as their main 2 CBs. Going to be a long summer of horse trading with them.

I'm not putting too much store by those quotes. The bloke basically lists all of the players who are out on loan and says they're doing well. I would be very surprised if they were all there next season though.

I'm not putting too much store by those quotes. The bloke basically lists all of the players who are out on loan and says they're doing well. I would be very surprised if they were all there next season though.

Of course. But selling a £15m (easily) class player for £6.8m is never going to happen so they will at least take him back and then any deal with us would be on (their) fresh terms.

If he wants to be in the PL then he probably will leave them but they and he will surely want to see who is keen before jumping into anything so as Window Cleaner says it will be a fiasco on/off transfer wherever he goes.

Of course. But selling a £15m (easily) class player for £6.8m is never going to happen so they will at least take him back and then any deal with us would be on (their) fresh terms.

 

If he wants to be in the PL then he probably will leave them but they and he will surely want to see who is keen before jumping into anything so as Window Cleaner says it will be a fiasco on/off transfer wherever he goes.

So why did they agree the lower price for him 16 odd games ago?

So why did they agree the lower price for him 16 odd games ago?

They agreed the price pre loan contract

While I'd love him to stay if he goes I think the club still did well with this loan. We got a quality CB for a season to help us push for Europe and if his parent club won't sell him to us we get 1.2 million in cash add in the extra money for a high league placing that he helped us achieve and Saints still come out of this whole deal ahead IMO.

We will really struggle next season if we lose NC, TA, VW and MS, far more than losing RL, AL, DL, LS and CC last year.

We will really struggle next season if we lose NC, TA, VW and MS, far more than losing RL, AL, DL, LS and CC last year.

Haven't seen anything about Wanyama going?

Haven't seen anything about Wanyama going?

Linked with Arsenal the other day...

We will really struggle next season if we lose NC, TA, VW and MS, far more than losing RL, AL, DL, LS and CC last year.

Lets see what happens first shall we? Last summer everyone said we were screwed and we're actually doing better than last season. Until we know who the replacements are any pronouncements of doom are a bit premature.......

We will really struggle next season if we lose NC, TA, VW and MS, far more than losing RL, AL, DL, LS and CC last year.

Is Cortese going? FFS!

I've been pretty much committed to half the team leaving every season after last summer, the quirk of being in the top 4 for so long was the only thing that temporarily made me reconsider. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we brought 3 more than we sell in though, especially if we're in the Europa. And if we get to those group stages we can probably expect to be mid-table as well.

They agreed the price pre loan contract

I know.

But common view is that was a very low price. They didn't have to agree it, if they could have agreed a higher fee with us, or anyone else, surely they would have done.

So why, after only 1550 minutes (about 16/17 cplete games) has his price rocketed?

He came he as a full international, played a significant amount for La Liga top side including champs league final - hardly young unknown.

I honestly don't understand how his team's valuation could vary so much in such a short time.

So why did they agree the lower price for him 16 odd games ago?

To get him out on loan quickly I suppose, knowing full well they had a 'get out of jail card' at the end of the season.

To get him out on loan quickly I suppose, knowing full well they had a 'get out of jail card' at the end of the season.

It also got 5 million euros off of their salary mass for a season, the sale price was just the carrot, the 75K a week or so that we no doubt pay Toby was the stick.

To get him out on loan quickly I suppose, knowing full well they had a 'get out of jail card' at the end of the season.

similar to juventus agreeing a high buy out clause for osvaldo, with no intention of ever activating it.

High buy out clauses make sense, club and player get more if activated.

Toby is, according to many on here, destined to go to one of top sides for huge money. In summer is was widely known that he was available, and was linked to many top clubs. But he chose us? His club were happy to commit to a low fee and even agreed to pay penalties if they didn't see it through. I would have thought we would have been pleased to take him on a straight loan.

Players values rise, but he hasn't improved , moved on hugely, only played few games, and as said before, not youngster breaking through.

I could understand his club wanting him back, as in effect they would be buying top player for a couple of million. But any other club, that could have had him last season, have to outbid us by a couple of million to negate the clause.

But there again did the fees for Lallana and Lovren make sense?!

My personal gut feeling is I would not be surprised if returns to his parent club or goes elsewhere but most likely will be he stays here.

He wasn't really linked with top clubs in the summer. I think we beat off competition from both Newcastle and Sunderland for him.

He was relatively unproven in a top league as hadnt featured a lot in Spain, so his loan has dramatically increased his value, which Atleti are doubtless very pleased about. The fact they put in the £1.5m clause almost renders our option to buy as worthless. Especially now he has performed well and they can clearly sell him for substantially more than 6.8m, whether to us or anyone else.

Nobody will be signing him for £6.8m so he will go back there and then be sold IMO to the highest bidder/club he decides he wants to join. Could be us, could be City, Spurs, Metalist Kharkiv etc. Nobody will know until late July/August IMO.

Southampton's hopes of signing Toby Alderweireld on a permanent basis have been dealt a blow after Atletico Madrid suggested the Belgium defender will be a key player for the Spanish club next season.

Alderweireld joined Atletico from Ajax in the summer of 2013 but played a peripheral role last term as Diego Simeone's team won the La Liga title.

He subsequently joined Southampton on a season-long loan and has been a key figure under Ronald Koeman at St Mary's.

His performances have led to speculation that Southampton will look to sign him on a full-time basis, but Atletico sporting director Jose Luis Caminero insists the 26-year-old is part of Simeone's plans for 2015-16.

“Our coaches follow a detailed monitoring of all the players that are loaned to other teams," said Caminero. "We are very pleased with their performance and growth in general.

"Oliver (Torres) and Alderweireld, for example, are finishing a very good season with Porto and Southampton and we are counting on them for the next campaign.”

Well that pretty much settles it.

Southampton's hopes of signing Toby Alderweireld on a permanent basis have been dealt a blow after Atletico Madrid suggested the Belgium defender will be a key player for the Spanish club next season.

 

Alderweireld joined Atletico from Ajax in the summer of 2013 but played a peripheral role last term as Diego Simeone's team won the La Liga title.

 

He subsequently joined Southampton on a season-long loan and has been a key figure under Ronald Koeman at St Mary's.

His performances have led to speculation that Southampton will look to sign him on a full-time basis, but Atletico sporting director Jose Luis Caminero insists the 26-year-old is part of Simeone's plans for 2015-16.

 

“Our coaches follow a detailed monitoring of all the players that are loaned to other teams," said Caminero. "We are very pleased with their performance and growth in general.

 

"Oliver (Torres) and Alderweireld, for example, are finishing a very good season with Porto and Southampton and we are counting on them for the next campaign.”

 

Well that pretty much settles it.

Fair enough maybe they have some other talented players they don't rate that they'd like us to develop for them and we still get 1.5 million for having a class player in our squad for a season not a bad deal really.

Well that pretty much settles it.

Not necessarily, horse trading that's all.

This time last year we were saying that we'd not sell anyone although we were probably quite keen to do so.

nevertheless it's probably just the start of the summer horse trading

Going to be a long summer of horse trading with them.

Not necessarily, horse trading that's all.

I like it.

I like it.

Right, bit repetitive from me there, still that's exactly what it is. Any pikey would recognise it instantly.

Even Jos looks good when Fonte's there to help him out.

Even Jos looks good when Fonte's there to help him out.

Jos scored the winner for Millwall today, perhaps Fonte helped him eh.

Jos scored the winner for Millwall today, perhaps Fonte helped him eh.

Hmm... 2nd worst goal difference in the league and relegation looming.

Hmm... 2nd worst goal difference in the league and relegation looming.

Unsurprising, Jos plays for them.

Fair enough maybe they have some other talented players they don't rate that they'd like us to develop for them and we still get 1.5 million for having a class player in our squad for a season not a bad deal really.

So, what you're saying is now we are only a feeder club for Atletico rather than Scousepool? Lots of Horses being traded!

Linked with Arsenal the other day...

:lol: do you believe everything the Papers say?

Some people are so ignorant, it's alarming.

He wasn't really linked with top clubs in the summer. I think we beat off competition from both Newcastle and Sunderland for him.

 

He was relatively unproven in a top league as hadnt featured a lot in Spain, so his loan has dramatically increased his value, which Atleti are doubtless very pleased about. The fact they put in the £1.5m clause almost renders our option to buy as worthless. Especially now he has performed well and they can clearly sell him for substantially more than 6.8m, whether to us or anyone else.

 

Nobody will be signing him for £6.8m so he will go back there and then be sold IMO to the highest bidder/club he decides he wants to join. Could be us, could be City, Spurs, Metalist Kharkiv etc. Nobody will know until late July/August IMO.

Sorry don't really see this...

I appreciate he was often used as a sub, but he played more minutes for a better side, in a better league last season than so far this. I am biaised towards us but can't see how fact that had only played for the La Liga champions and champions league finalists, Spanish cup semi finalist ( losing to Real Madrid) kept his price down....but now after 16 odd games for team who are going to finish 5/6/7th in poorer league , knocked out of cup in 4th round by palace, pushes it up dramatically?!!!

Before joining us he had played 40 odd times for his country, was a starter in the world cup, played 3 group games of champions league, half the final, etc.

So just not true to say he is much more proven now.

His profile isn't that high elsewhere...when pundits or other fans talk about our defensive record he tends to be the last of the back 5 mentioned.

He was linked elsewhere before us...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/arsenal-transfer-news-rumours-toby-4082173

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/tottenham-plot-transfer-toby-alderweireld-3658949

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-transfer-gossip-lfc-7328354

http://talksport.com/football/defender-available-so-why-arent-man-united-moving-him-140828110564

Not knocking the player, just genuinely confused why his value would have risen over what was agreed in the summer.

He has already played virtually double the league minutes this year as last year.

Despite missing two months with injury and there still being a number of games left.

So when you say "he played more minutes last season than so far this" it is just....wrong.

He was bit part for Atletico Madrid last year. Like Gardos has been for us.

Quoting the Mirrornand TalkSport doesn't help a lot either. The Belgian journalists that broke the story of him coming here said Newcastle and Sunderland were his other options with Everton also keen.

His value is higher now because he has proven he is good enough to play every week for a top side.

Since leaving Ajax he hadn't proved his class in a good league. He has now.

Right, bit repetitive from me there, still that's exactly what it is. Any pikey would recognise it instantly.

It could have been worse. You could have repeatedly called upon the Board to clean their windows so they could see what was really going on.

He has already played virtually double the league minutes this year as last year.

 

Despite missing two months with injury and there still being a number of games left.

 

So when you say "he played more minutes last season than so far this" it is just....wrong.

 

He was bit part for Atletico Madrid last year. Like Gardos has been for us.

 

Quoting the Mirrornand TalkSport doesn't help a lot either. The Belgian journalists that broke the story of him coming here said Newcastle and Sunderland were his other options with Everton also keen.

 

His value is higher now because he has proven he is good enough to play every week for a top side.

 

Since leaving Ajax he hadn't proved his class in a good league. He has now.

Not that it really matters, and think we should agree to disagree, but

13/14

La Liga 12 games, 908 mins

Copa del rey 6 games, 453 mins

Champions league 4 games, 308 mins

Eredivisie 4 games, 360 mins

JCS 1 game, 90 mins

Total 27 games, 2119 mins

14/15

Prem 18 games, 1550 mins

League cup 2 games, 18 mins

Total 20 games, 1568 mins

Yes was often only a squad player but stop kidding yourself we took some inexperienced youngster and tried him on a bigger stage. Maybe his games for us proved he is a first team player, but think being a first team player in the world cup, or playing 90 mins against Real Madrid gave him some big game tests, although obviously not Stoke, Hull, Burnley etc where he has proven he can cope in really big games, lol!

You point of missing game time this season due to injury surely isn't a positive factor for increasing his value?

You can't include Dutch league games. He made 10 league starts for Atletico (a few at right back where he plays for Belgium because Vertonghen is seen til now as a better CB option) and has already made 18 for us and would have made more if not for injury.

He is playing in his preferred position which he often didnt for club and country last year.

Lets agree to disagree. IMO he is worth substantially more than £6.8m and will be sold to someone for a lot more than that.

If you disagree and think he is still worth that then fair enough.

If/when Atletico take him back, do we get £1.5m from them or was that just if someone else signed him?

If/when Atletico take him back, do we get £1.5m from them or was that just if someone else signed him?

We get the £1.5m from them. Basically, they have to 'buy out' the loan clause, which then allows them to either keep him or sell him to the highest bidder.

http://www.insidefutbol.com/2015/05/31/miranda-or-toby-alderweireld-jose-mourinho-gets-tough-on-atletico-madrids-filipe-luis-desire/211610/

Marca says Mourinho wants Toby at Chelsea.

Would be a great move for him IMO as Cahill not top class and Terry not got a long time left.

http://www.insidefutbol.com/2015/05/31/miranda-or-toby-alderweireld-jose-mourinho-gets-tough-on-atletico-madrids-filipe-luis-desire/211610/

 

Marca says Mourinho wants Toby at Chelsea.

 

Would be a great move for him IMO as Cahill not top class and Terry not got a long time left.

Wherever he goes, Toby will want assurances that he is going to be getting plenty of game time and not warming the bench. It's one of the reasons he came to us.

http://www.insidefutbol.com/2015/05/31/miranda-or-toby-alderweireld-jose-mourinho-gets-tough-on-atletico-madrids-filipe-luis-desire/211610/

 

Marca says Mourinho wants Toby at Chelsea.

 

Would be a great move for him IMO as Cahill not top class and Terry not got a long time left.

You actually seem pleased our players might go somewhere else. Every day is a cold Monday in November when you post Charlie.

You actually seem pleased our players might go somewhere else. Every day is a cold Monday in November when you post Charlie.

Why would I be pleased? Just saying that he might see Chelsea as a great move, because....err....it would be.

Stop worrying about me and post some of your own opinions!

He's better than Cahill.

He's better than Cahill.

Not difficult....

Why would I be pleased? Just saying that he might see Chelsea as a great move, because....err....it would be.

 

Stop worrying about me and post some of your own opinions!

Think I certainly give my opinions.

So what were the terms of the loan

We have first option to buy at €7m

Madrid pay us €1.5m to take him back and take our option to buy away,it then becomes a bidding war we have to enter and don't have much chance of winning as no doubt the bigger clubs will be sniffing

Let's hope Madrid can't see the potential

So what were the terms of the loan

 

We have first option to buy at €7m

 

Madrid pay us €1.5m to take him back and take our option to buy away,it then becomes a bidding war we have to enter and don't have much chance of winning as no doubt the bigger clubs will be sniffing

 

Let's hope Madrid can't see the potential

A further complication is a potential transfer ban that Atletico Madrid may face which would make it even harder to sign him. And we don't know when our right to buy clause ends either.

If we were to have a chance of signing him, I would suggest it will cost us more than the agreed fee - which I would be absolutely fine with. The good news is that the fee would be 1.5m Euros cheaper that it would otherwise be.