JWP for England...

Forster,Clyne and Bertrand should be there, not JWP.

Regarding JWP' date=' he was namechecked by Hodgson earlier this season when talking about players to play at the base of midfield in front of the back four. I think Carrick and Wilshere were the other players mentioned. Wilshere is injured...[/quote']

 

Surprised Cork doesn't get a call-up (considering Colback got picked a while back).

Particularly strange considering the only time I can remember JWP playing at the base of midfield for us this season was in the last half an hour against Swansea at home when we got completely overrun by Jonjo ****ing Shelvey.

Yep, plus was subbed after 20mins last season home vs. Villa after starting there.

To be fair he does play very well there for the U21's and has made the position his own.

Good, maybe we can flog him to arsenal for 20mil

Regarding JWP' date=' he was namechecked by Hodgson earlier this season when talking about players to play at the base of midfield in front of the back four. I think Carrick and Wilshere were the other players mentioned. Wilshere is injured...[/quote']

 

And Carrick is sh*t

Yep, plus was subbed after 20mins last season home vs. Villa after starting there.

 

To be fair he does play very well there for the U21's and has made the position his own.

In qualifying, he was up against Finland, Moldova, Wales (who lost to San Marino), Lithuania and San Marino. If a Premier League player can't do well against those opponents then there's a serious problem. The finals this summer will be the real acid test, Portugal, Sweden and Italy in the group stage - if he can perform against those opponents, then there's a discussion to be had.

Regardless of your opinion of JWP, if England are to progress in the next decade or so, they have got to try and blood some younger players and get them used to playing for the senior national side at an early stage.

I know people often say "look at what Germany did", but it's something that can't be ignored. After the World Cup in South Korea, the old guard moved on and there was a real effort over the next few years to get the likes of Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Mertesacker etc playing for the national team early on. None of these players had played an awful lot of first-team games before their first international caps.

If the England management team thinks JWP has what it takes to be a future England regular, along with the likes of Harry Kane, Ross Barkley etc, then it's better to get them involved ASAP. Just my opinion though.

When JWP gets called up for Brazil or Germany we will know he is defiantly good enough for England

Gibbs Shaw and Baines.....1. Whats the point in taking 3 LB's, and 2. Bertrand has been better than all 3 this year.

Just clyne and forster in

ha Walker! No Bertrand is ridiculous.

Gibbs, Baines and Shaw....?

At least all the Liverpool boys are in there too.

ha Walker! No Bertrand is ridiculous.

Gibbs, Baines and Shaw....?

 

At least all the Liverpool boys are in there too.

Apart from Lambert that is (and the Skate). Seems like SRL's brief England career is over.

I think Hodgson's attitude towards Liverpool is something akin to Stockholm Syndrome. The supporters gave him such stick at Anfield and made his position impossible, yet ever since he's taken over the England job he always seems to be overly accommodating towards anything Liverpool. It seems to me that he wanted to show he had no axe to grind from his time there, but has taken it a bit far.

I actually quite like Roy, but this is one of a few things that bug me.

The Ryan Bertrand situation, whilst good for us that he doesn't mix with that lot, is so frustrating generally for decent enlgish players. He's been the stand out english left back in the league this season. Fiar enough LB is pretty strong for us, but in a situation where Shaw has been injured, Baines has been injured and Gibbs has been reserve...it was a perfect time for him. But whatever, keep going with the same old tried and tested dross.

I think Hodgson's attitude towards Liverpool is something akin to Stockholm Syndrome. The supporters gave him such stick at Anfield and made his position impossible, yet ever since he's taken over the England job he always seems to be overly accommodating towards anything Liverpool. It seems to me that he wanted to show he had no axe to grind from his time there, but has taken it a bit far.

 

I actually quite like Roy, but this is one of a few things that bug me.

Don't get this. Do you think that any of Henderson, Sturridge, Lallana or Sterling shouldn't be in the squad?

Lambert shoudnt be in there as he isn't playing, and he's not, so i don't really see an issue?

Don't get this. Do you think that any of Henderson, Sturridge, Lallana or Sterling shouldn't be in the squad?

 

Lambert shoudnt be in there as he isn't playing, and he's not, so i don't really see an issue?

No, this isn't a problem. The problem is picking players like Barkley, Carrick, Smalling, who have been trash this season. Well, maybe Carrick hasn't been trash - but he hasn't played enough for me.

JWP really hasn't played well enough to be in there so I can understand him not being called up but the fact Bertrand isn't in the squad is nothing short of a joke. I'd have also been tempted to call up Charlie Austin.

Also, only two keepers? Don't they usually take three?

Also, only two keepers? Don't they usually take three?

Ben Foster got injured last week. Jack Butland will step up from the U21s if required, which he probably won't be.

JWP really hasn't played well enough to be in there so I can understand him not being called up but the fact Bertrand isn't in the squad is nothing short of a joke. I'd have also been tempted to call up Charlie Austin.

 

Also, only two keepers? Don't they usually take three?

Foster is injured for a few months I think.

The Ryan Bertrand situation, whilst good for us that he doesn't mix with that lot, is so frustrating generally for decent enlgish players. He's been the stand out english left back in the league this season. Fiar enough LB is pretty strong for us, but in a situation where Shaw has been injured, Baines has been injured and Gibbs has been reserve...it was a perfect time for him. But whatever, keep going with the same old tried and tested dross.

Completely agree. I have no concept of how from a footballing perspective, Bertrand isn't in that squad as first choice. Its not like Clyne and Bertrand play together every week either...

Ryan Bertrand can consider himself very unfortunate not to have been selected. Playing for the best defence in the league, two of which are English, why not put them both in? I can see the argument for Shaw as the likley medium/long term option but Baines hasn't been pulling up trees this season and is Gibbs, a decent enough left back, really better than Betrand? I haven't seen anything in the media where RH explains his choices at left back. Perhaps nobody is interested enough to ask the question. Looking at the defenders in the England squad, it's a very mixed buch. I assume Smalling is in there for comedy value, clowns shoes and all. Rob Jones mmm...., Walker? I think that bunch could do with a Champions League winner to up the quality.

Completely agree. I have no concept of how from a footballing perspective, Bertrand isn't in that squad as first choice. Its not like Clyne and Bertrand play together every week either...

The three who have been picked are those "in possession". Even in international football, you need some semblance of continuity in selection, otherwise how can you hope to have a properly-functioning team when a tournament comes around? If a player in a previous squad has demonstrated why he shouldn't be picked, or he is unavailable for whatever reason, then you look for a suitable replacement.

It's pretty rare that you get a situation whereby a player is making an unanswerable case to be brought into the squad, Harry Kane being the obvious example, and so then you have to assess whether any of the existing players should make way. As it turns out, Rickie Lambert's non-playing for Liverpool made that decision very easy.

Left-back is the one position where we have genuine strength in depth - the three that were picked for this squad could easily have all been replaced with Bertrand, Cresswell and even Danny Rose, but if the manager kept chopping and changing every time a squad announcement came around and then we ended up making a pig's ear of the tournament again (which we obviously will, because we're simply not actually that good), everyone would point the finger at the manager saying "you've only got a small number of games to form a functioning team, why did you keep making so many changes?".

Fiar enough LB is pretty strong for us, but in a situation where Shaw has been injured, Baines has been injured and Gibbs has been reserve...it was a perfect time for him.

Shaw and Baines have had injuries, yes, but they're both fit and available right now. Intrigued how Gibbs can be categorised as a "reserve" when he's played 30 games this season for Arsenal. By way of comparison, Ryan Bertrand has played 31 for us.

We are so weak at CB. Not just now, but in years to come. Who else is coming through? Deir? Chambers maybe. Anyone else? Smalling and Phil 'Bryan Robson' Jones haven't turned out to be the answer and I can't see either suddenly turning into anything like the quality of recent years.

To think at one point we had Terry, Rio, Campbell, King, Woodgate, Carragher kicking around. No-one is anything near the quality of these players, and we still won f'all with them!

We are so weak at CB. Not just now, but in years to come. Who else is coming through? Deir? Chambers maybe. Anyone else? Smalling and Phil 'Bryan Robson' Jones haven't turned out to be the answer and I can't see either suddenly turning into anything like the quality of recent years.

 

To think at one point we had Terry, Rio, Campbell, King, Woodgate, Carragher kicking around. No-one is anything near the quality of these players, and we still won f'all with them!

Can only think of Stones, really. We are certainly lacking.

The three who have been picked are those "in possession". Even in international football, you need some semblance of continuity in selection, otherwise how can you hope to have a properly-functioning team when a tournament comes around? If a player in a previous squad has demonstrated why he shouldn't be picked, or he is unavailable for whatever reason, then you look for a suitable replacement.

 

It's pretty rare that you get a situation whereby a player is making an unanswerable case to be brought into the squad, Harry Kane being the obvious example, and so then you have to assess whether any of the existing players should make way. As it turns out, Rickie Lambert's non-playing for Liverpool made that decision very easy.

 

Left-back is the one position where we have genuine strength in depth - the three that were picked for this squad could easily have all been replaced with Bertrand, Cresswell and even Danny Rose, but if the manager kept chopping and changing every time a squad announcement came around and then we ended up making a pig's ear of the tournament again (which we obviously will, because we're simply not actually that good), everyone would point the finger at the manager saying "you've only got a small number of games to form a functioning team, why did you keep making so many changes?".

 

 

Shaw and Baines have had injuries, yes, but they're both fit and available right now. Intrigued how Gibbs can be categorised as a "reserve" when he's played 30 games this season for Arsenal. By way of comparison, Ryan Bertrand has played 31 for us.[/color]

I just don't feel that Shaw or Baines have played enough club football this season, they've been in and out. I think Baines has only just come back? I like Shaw a lot, but he's not done enough to be in this squad I don't believe. For me, there hasn't been a better English left back this season, on that basis I think it'll freshen it up with Bertrand. I'm all with the continuity side of it, but when it's all a bit underwhelming it's nice to freshen it up from time to time.

I mean, Townsend, what is that all about?

We are so weak at CB. Not just now, but in years to come. Who else is coming through? Deir? Chambers maybe. Anyone else? Smalling and Phil 'Bryan Robson' Jones haven't turned out to be the answer and I can't see either suddenly turning into anything like the quality of recent years.

 

To think at one point we had Terry, Rio, Campbell, King, Woodgate, Carragher kicking around. No-one is anything near the quality of these players, and we still won f'all with them!

CB is pretty weak. Jones was supposed to be the main man, the leader for the next generation - but he's just not kicked on at all, the best thing he's known for are the faces he pulls!

Stones is a terrific ball playing centre back, fan of him - but he's still a little raw around the edges. I think he'll be first choice in the coming years. But when you look down through the squads and the U21, it's a bit bare. English football in general is lacking up and coming 'international stars' I feel. Gerrard and Lampard were moaned about, but there's no one of their level coming through. Rooney is a bit of an idiot, but he's the only star in that side I can see. Maybe Sterling can become a top level. The rest are a bit bog standard.

The days of Campbell, Rio, Neville, Cole, Beckham, Gerrard, Owen, Rooney seem a long time ago....players that could have, and did, play for some of the biggest European sides all over the world. That team should have done much more.

Don't get this. Do you think that any of Henderson, Sturridge, Lallana or Sterling shouldn't be in the squad?

 

Lambert shoudnt be in there as he isn't playing, and he's not, so i don't really see an issue?

No I wasn't referring to this squad in particular, just a general feeling since he's been in charge. Now the squad has been confirmed it's not an issue, but the mere suggestion of resting the Liverpool players would have been another example.

Matthew Targett called up to the U21 squad along with JWP.

Reed, Stephens, and Turnbull in U20 squad.

Don't get this. Do you think that any of Henderson, Sturridge, Lallana or Sterling shouldn't be in the squad?

 

Lambert shoudnt be in there as he isn't playing, and he's not, so i don't really see an issue?

I would not pick Henderson. Very ordinary.

Regardless of your opinion of JWP, if England are to progress in the next decade or so, they have got to try and blood some younger players and get them used to playing for the senior national side at an early stage.

 

I know people often say "look at what Germany did", but it's something that can't be ignored. After the World Cup in South Korea, the old guard moved on and there was a real effort over the next few years to get the likes of Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Mertesacker etc playing for the national team early on. None of these players had played an awful lot of first-team games before their first international caps.

 

If the England management team thinks JWP has what it takes to be a future England regular, along with the likes of Harry Kane, Ross Barkley etc, then it's better to get them involved ASAP. Just my opinion though.

This really

The three who have been picked are those "in possession". Even in international football, you need some semblance of continuity in selection, otherwise how can you hope to have a properly-functioning team when a tournament comes around? If a player in a previous squad has demonstrated why he shouldn't be picked, or he is unavailable for whatever reason, then you look for a suitable replacement.

 

It's pretty rare that you get a situation whereby a player is making an unanswerable case to be brought into the squad, Harry Kane being the obvious example, and so then you have to assess whether any of the existing players should make way. As it turns out, Rickie Lambert's non-playing for Liverpool made that decision very easy.

 

Left-back is the one position where we have genuine strength in depth - the three that were picked for this squad could easily have all been replaced with Bertrand, Cresswell and even Danny Rose, but if the manager kept chopping and changing every time a squad announcement came around and then we ended up making a pig's ear of the tournament again (which we obviously will, because we're simply not actually that good), everyone would point the finger at the manager saying "you've only got a small number of games to form a functioning team, why did you keep making so many changes?".

 

 

Shaw and Baines have had injuries, yes, but they're both fit and available right now. Intrigued how Gibbs can be categorised as a "reserve" when he's played 30 games this season for Arsenal. By way of comparison, Ryan Bertrand has played 31 for us.[/color]

Ive kept saying this for the last 3-4 years, but nobody bothers to listen. Hopefully people may start to get this situation now because you are spot on.

There is also the Tom Cleverley situation, which, although he possibly wasnt as good as one or two other options around the PL he fell into a pocket of able players. And from a coaching point of view it does make sense, in the same way that keeping continuity makes sense. A coach atleast at international level has a very small amount of time to gel a squad and get a team playing the way he wants. This is made more difficult by the fact that club players are coached to a level of carrying out their club orders instinctively. And so, it helps to have groups of players already used to playing together.

Its a shame that Bertrand didnt get in though. Along with Clyne and Forster you have you're group, perhaps add JWP into that after the retirement of Carrick (which should have happened in an older player cull IMO). But Steve is right, Bertrand has some stiff competition there, and Shaw is (rightly so IMO) the prodigal son there.

I would not pick Henderson. Very ordinary.

Really ? He has been absolutely outstanding recently

Not really a surprise, despite what some on this forum think he is a very talented player and Hodgson has been talking of this possibility for months.

You must be surprised he didn't make it then?

Personally I'm not as think there was no chance he was going to make that squad based on recent form.

As Clark said should shut a few people up. Those thinking he is good enough for the national senior team ofc.

JWP is clearly a talented player with big potential, and he has some clear areas of his game to work on (not least getting himself on the scoresheet!)

 

In the early part of this season, i felt he wasn't impacting the games enough but over the Christmas period he showed that he can do that with a number of assists. He's had a few dodgy sub appearances in recent weeks, but there clearly is talent there and he'd probably benefit most from a consistent run in our side (tough with the competition we have).

 

With regards to England, two points.

 

One, England are really crap - it's hardly fierce competition for a midfield spot, especially if we are looking to the future.

 

Two. JWP would be in the squad but i don't think he'd be playing. It would be about Roy getting a close up watch of him and him starting to engage with the senior squad, rather than thinking he was ready to start bossing it against the world's best. If he impresses in training, and given the rubbish we're playing against in our qualifiers, he may even find himself getting a few minutes.

 

On Bertrand, he did the unthinkable and joined a small team

There fixed it for you

I wonder if there is a correlation between the people that can't see how good Ward-Prowse is and those that thought Wotton was better than Schneiderlin...?

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?12867-Schneiderlin-Saints-Biggest-Waste-of-Cash-Ever&highlight=schneiderlin+wotton#.VQoFHULKzpV

I can't speak for the others, but I assume "those who are slating him" on here are in the same position as I. We know JWP is a good player with good talent, it's just that this season he is having a stinker. Could be personal stuff outside football for all we know, doesn't mean he has turned into a bad player. Just means this season he has been appalling so far.

I can't speak for the others, but I assume "those who are slating him" on here are in the same position as I. We know JWP is a good player with good talent, it's just that this season he is having a stinker. Could be personal stuff outside football for all we know, doesn't mean he has turned into a bad player. Just means this season he has been appalling so far.

Appalling? All season? He's had a couple of poor games, which as a 20/21 yo he is entitled to do. Has he been as shocking as Mane was in a couple of his games? Or Barkley at Everton, or Januzai at Man Utd if you want to look at a similarly aged player elsewhere?

Not good enough yet, however if he is being brought in to play 15-20 mins here and there and use to the squad and surroundings, I am fine with that, he will be good enough soon to be able to be more consistent, has looked very good for us IMO the last 2-3 games.