What is a fair deal for the UK within the EU?

I know there is another thread about an EU referendum.

But what is a fair deal as Cameron wants within the EU?

To me, a lot of this boils down to low level crap about stopping EU immigrants arriving in Britain.

Are there wider and bigger arguments about why the UK is getting a raw deal in the EU?

I would like to see less meddling with labour law. Eg the agency workers directive which was designed to help the less fortunate but has meant that low paid agency workers cannot hold down a job for more than 12 weeks.

i also think that the foreign ambassador setup they introduced is just an expensive folly. I would like to see the CAP reduced / repealed (fat chance). I would also insist that they have to get their sh1t sorted out with the accounts before giving them anymore to waste.

Pretty sure this is also about the UK not having to abide by the ridiculous rulings of the oooropean court of oooman rights.

Very quick off the top of my head and trying not to sound like Farage, but I'd guess something like;

1. Stop having laws imposed on us (no examples to hand though, although I know there are many pointless laws and regulations that have been imposed)

2. Make it slightly harder for EU migrants to work here (speaking to my Indian and US colleagues, they think it's unfair that they have to go through all the expensive hoops to secure a tier 2 visa, yet someone from the EU outside of Britain and can just waltz in and work here - an interesting viewpoint from an 'outsider'?)

3. Stop giving the EU so much money for so little in return and ask for a full itemised bill of where it all goes - if we thought our MP expenses were bad, I dread to think what the EU/MEP expenses are like

That's just 3 headlines from me anyway that I can quickly think of before I run to a meeting.

There is evidence, and I see it everyday at work, of Romanians in particular, bringing over whole families and simply claiming benefits/tax credits. I can understand why they'd want to change the rights of immigrants to claim benefits/tax credits and it's the right thing to do IMHO. If you've paid nothing in you should get nothing out.

I wouldn't, however, want the right to travel, live and work in the EU curtailed.

There is evidence, and I see it everyday at work, of Romanians in particular, bringing over whole families and simply claiming benefits/tax credits. I can understand why they'd want to change the rights of immigrants to claim benefits/tax credits and it's the right thing to do IMHO. If you've paid nothing in you should get nothing out.

 

I wouldn't, however, want the right to travel, live and work in the EU curtailed.

I concur.

There is evidence, and I see it everyday at work, of Romanians in particular, bringing over whole families and simply claiming benefits/tax credits. I can understand why they'd want to change the rights of immigrants to claim benefits/tax credits and it's the right thing to do IMHO. If you've paid nothing in you should get nothing out.

 

I wouldn't, however, want the right to travel, live and work in the EU curtailed.

Wouldn't it be interesting if the parent EU country of those working in other parts of Europe had to reimburse the host country for any benefits that were paid to their country's nationals living and working elsewhere in Europe? I'm pretty sure that then there would be a great deal of support to tightening up on economic migration within the Euro-zone. This is effectively what happens with health care within the Euro-zone, so why not with benefits?

Pretty sure this is also about the UK not having to abide by the ridiculous rulings of the oooropean court of oooman rights.

Which is, of course, nothing to do with membership or not of the EU

The real problem stems from over expansion. If it had remained as a group of countries with broadly similar economies and standard of living - France, Germany, Benelux and Scandinavia we wouldnt have most of the current issues related to 'overpayment or immigration.

3. Stop giving the EU so much money for so little in return and ask for a full itemised bill of where it all goes - if we thought our MP expenses were bad, I dread to think what the EU/MEP expenses are like

We dont give that much - its about £8bn nett from a Government spend of c£650bn. Part of the reason for the deficit is that the UK doesnt apply for much of the funds available through programmes like Interreg (regional development) and Life (environmental protection).

We dont give that much - its about £8bn nett from a Government spend of c£650bn. Part of the reason for the deficit is that the UK doesnt apply for much of the funds available through programmes like Interreg (regional development) and Life (environmental protection).

And that is £8bn too much, in my opinion. I'm not going to argue, that's just what I think.

Get rid of all the things that don't benefit us and keep the stuff that does , simple!

Wouldn't it be interesting if the parent EU country of those working in other parts of Europe had to reimburse the host country for any benefits that were paid to their country's nationals living and working elsewhere in Europe? I'm pretty sure that then there would be a great deal of support to tightening up on economic migration within the Euro-zone. This is effectively what happens with health care within the Euro-zone, so why not with benefits?

Interesting idea, I like it.

Interesting idea, I like it.

When the thread is about what constitutes a fair deal for the UK within the EU, then what could be fairer than a fellow member state repaying the benefits claimed by their own nationals who have moved to other EU countries.

No doubt it will be argued that the fact that people choose to be economic migrants moving to wealthier countries indicates that those poorer countries they left would be put under financial strain to reimburse those benefit payments, but equally the freedom of movement surely wasn't intended to encourage people to go to the wealthier countries to sponge off their tax-payers.

The Government is attempting to introduce a policy of not having to pay benefits for a period of two years, isn't it? If we have any opposition from the EU to that policy proposal, then this is perhaps a viable alternative strategy which is harder to argue against on moral grounds.

When the thread is about what constitutes a fair deal for the UK within the EU, then what could be fairer than a fellow member state repaying the benefits claimed by their own nationals who have moved to other EU countries.

 

No doubt it will be argued that the fact that people choose to be economic migrants moving to wealthier countries indicates that those poorer countries they left would be put under financial strain to reimburse those benefit payments, but equally the freedom of movement surely wasn't intended to encourage people to go to the wealthier countries to sponge off their tax-payers.

 

The Government is attempting to introduce a policy of not having to pay benefits for a period of two years, isn't it? If we have any opposition from the EU to that policy proposal, then this is perhaps a viable alternative strategy which is harder to argue against on moral grounds.

I dont know how well the health scheme works but suspect it is a time consuming nightmare. It might be worthwhile trying to claim back the cost of somebody's six week stay in hospital but not the £50 cost of a GP appointment - and its probably the millions of small scale cases where most of the costs are.

Some kind of length of residency based scheme to be eligible for benefits is really the only one which would work imo.

I dont know how well the health scheme works but suspect it is a time consuming nightmare. It might be worthwhile trying to claim back the cost of somebody's six week stay in hospital but not the £50 cost of a GP appointment - and its probably the millions of small scale cases where most of the costs are.

 

Some kind of length of residency based scheme to be eligible for benefits is really the only one which would work imo.

I agree that length of residency would be the most effective measure for benefit entitlement, but that is possibly the most difficult to get EU agreement on.

I agree that there are some complications to the Health Service refunds from other member states because of the involvements of doctors outside of hospitals as an example. However, while on holiday in Austria a couple of years ago, my son fell and broke his arm and the reimbursement of the Austrian hospital for X-Rays and the plaster cast was relatively straightforward, in that we paid for it and then claimed it back.

But the payment of benefits is surely much easier to monitor and reclaim, as it is already administered by career bureaucrats for whom it should be a doddle. All that would be required, was the sending to the fellow EU state of all of the relevant paperwork in triplicate, fastened in red tape. Alternatively, if it proved difficult to get the benefit outlay reimbursed by the parent country, then all we would need to do is reduce our EU contributions by the same amount.

I agree that length of residency would be the most effective measure for benefit entitlement, but that is possibly the most difficult to get EU agreement on.

 

I agree that there are some complications to the Health Service refunds from other member states because of the involvements of doctors outside of hospitals as an example. However, while on holiday in Austria a couple of years ago, my son fell and broke his arm and the reimbursement of the Austrian hospital for X-Rays and the plaster cast was relatively straightforward, in that we paid for it and then claimed it back.

 

But the payment of benefits is surely much easier to monitor and reclaim, as it is already administered by career bureaucrats for whom it should be a doddle. All that would be required, was the sending to the fellow EU state of all of the relevant paperwork in triplicate, fastened in red tape. Alternatively, if it proved difficult to get the benefit outlay reimbursed by the parent country, then all we would need to do is reduce our EU contributions by the same amount.

I had a similar episode in Austria - Just presented my E111 card had the details were taken and presumably charged back - its not difficult and not really time consuming

I had a similar episode in Austria - Just presented my E111 card had the details were taken and presumably charged back - its not difficult and not really time consuming

Not for you, I was referring to the costs of administering the recharging system