Osvaldo, Ramirez

What a massive mistake signing these two.

Think they were being paid £40000 a week.

Big mistake.

Bit late, and what do you mean "were"?

Gaston's wages are well known, he was even quoted about them before he signed.

Cortese ego projects, glad we've got that level of arrogance out of the process, it just creates the kind of inefficiences other clubs are held back by.

Gaston has just bought a new car which suggests that he intends to stick around, or at least stay in the UK. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a role next season.

Gaston has just bought a new car which suggests that he intends to stick around, or at least stay in the UK. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a role next season.

I would be very surprised if he was still here or a Saints player next season..................and there is no way that Osvaldo will be here.........gone at a large money loss.

I would be very surprised if he was still here or a Saints player next season..................and there is no way that Osvaldo will be here.........gone at a large money loss.

I hope you're right on both, they've been expensive disasters.

I hope you're right on both, they've been expensive disasters.

You are right and they were both Cortese vanity signings although Osvaldo had pochettino written all over it............maybe the argie wil buy him for the Yids

What if Gaston was so happy here he would accept a new 3 year deal on a smaller contract, would you take him or would you rather sell him at a loss of about 8m? Though the percentage of us wanting him for 3 more years combined with a footballer willing to take a pay cut means this has a 0.000000001% chance of happening.

They are mistakes now, expensive mistakes, but that's not how they were perceived when we signed them. Osvaldo was a striker with a decent goal scoring record at Espanyol and Roma, and was an Italian International, and while he was always hot tempered, the powers that be at Saints (especially old boss Pochettino) must have thought it was worth the risk. Ramirez was a 21-year old with a bright future who had a good stint at Bologna. I can understand why we signed both. We didn't know they'd be failures when we signed them.

Sadly Osvaldo's temperament seems to have effectively ruined his career, but I'm sure he's made enough cash that he doesn't care. Ramirez simply didn't blossom, although at 24 he still has time on his side. Perhaps a new change of scenery in another country will help, perhaps it's the English game that doesn't really suit him. Shame, because in his first season he was OK.

Big money signings are tricky. Ask Liverpool! Ha! The simple fact is our best signings, Wanyama aside, cost us very little. Even Forster wasn't overpriced, for a good International keeper with years ahead of him. The only question marks in our current side are on the other big money signing of Long, one hopes he will be more hit than miss in the next couple of years. We're a team that improves players, I like reasonable money signings like Soares and Juanmi, knowing that if they are a hit, we can potentially sell for big money, while knowing if they fail, we haven't blown too much on them, like Osvaldo and Ramirez.

That said, I do get excited when we spend big bucks on players. I did with both Osvaldo and Ramirez, and, oddly, Delap!

What if Gaston was so happy here he would accept a new 3 year deal on a smaller contract, would you take him or would you rather sell him at a loss of about 8m? Though the percentage of us wanting him for 3 more years combined with a footballer willing to take a pay cut means this has a 0.000000001% chance of happening.

The frustrating thing is that the talent is there. A year ago I was all for giving him a chance. He had that at Hull and didn't take it. His time's up.

Gaston has just bought a new car which suggests that he intends to stick around, or at least stay in the UK. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a role next season.

As a chauffeur?

As a chauffeur?

Ha! That's about his limit to be fair.

As a chauffeur?

Er, no, he's always been a passenger...

The positive with Osvaldo was the boys and girls in the Black Box department had concerns about him, he was a signing against the grain, and as much was said at the time he was revealed. But Pochettino stuck his neck out and said he could tame him as he had before.

So they knew he was an issue, Gaston like Mayuka were ones who sadly slipped through the net.

Really disappointed with the way Gaston has turned out. The talent is there, that's obvious. He just doesn't suit the English game at all. Too weak, slow and disappears. If he could have pushed on from that Villa 4-1 game he would be a world beater. He absolutely dictated that game.

Might be worth a go in the early rounds of the Europa League if we can't offload him again.

It is interesting to see that our two latest signings this week have been distinctly less expensive ones than either of these foreign players were - by some margin actually. Is this now club policy?

Can it be that the club has concluded that the obvious failure of the Osveldo and Ramirez transfers show that there is little or no 'value for money' in signing players in the £10m to £15m bracket because they are ultimately no more likely to prove successful here in the PL than those who cost less than £5m?

My little theory may be blown out of the water next week of course if the club splash out on another 'big money' transfer such as Charlie Austin for example. Time will tell I suppose.

I think the way in which the Gaston loan to Hull was reported by Saints ("Gaston will return to Southampton at the end of the loan deal") and our high number of competitive league matches in the forthcoming season will mean that there remains a place in the squad for Gaston. It will be up to him and his representatives to decide whether he will be happy with the role offered.

osvaldo is surely a case of the club doing everything they can to get him off the books and him not being welcome through the doors. I would be surprised if he was ever asked to attend training etc ever again.

It is interesting to see that our two latest signings this week have been distinctly less expensive ones than either of these foreign players were - by some margin actually. Is this now club policy?

 

Can it be that the club has concluded that the obvious failure of the Osveldo and Ramirez transfers show that there is little or no 'value for money' in signing players in the £10m to £15m bracket because they are ultimately no more likely to prove successful here in the PL than those who cost less than £5m?

 

My little theory may be blown out of the water next week of course if the club splash out on another 'big money' transfer such as Charlie Austin for example. Time will tell I suppose.

a bit of that maybe, but perhaps just as importantly we don't know have Cortese overspending and we have Liebherr saying she wants the finances to stack up.

What a massive mistake signing these two.

Think they were being paid £40000 a week.

Big mistake.

No **** Sherlock!

I wonder how close any of Osvaldo's actions have been to allow us to terminate the contract- the Jose incident in particular. It seems crazy that a player can behave like such a **** for so long, show such little sign of ever setting foot near Southampton again, let alone play and still be on the payroll.

I wonder how close any of Osvaldo's actions have been to allow us to terminate the contract- the Jose incident in particular. It seems crazy that a player can behave like such a **** for so long, show such little sign of ever setting foot near Southampton again, let alone play and still be on the payroll.

I don't doubt that we could have terminated his contract and thus wiped out any chance of ever recovering a penny of the sum we paid for him. When you've paid 12+ million or whatever it was for a player you tend to think twice about kicking his arse out of the door for free!!

I don't doubt that we could have terminated his contract and thus wiped out any chance of ever recovering a penny of the sum we paid for him. When you've paid 12+ million or whatever it was for a player you tend to think twice about kicking his arse out of the door for free!!

this is the problem with the amount of money in the game now - it overrides the principles of a football club in most cases. It is a shame we let money cover up what would in any other walk of life be considered gross misconduct and an instant dismissal.

Is it any wonder that players are in the main a bunch of ***** and see themselves above the law.

I was a bit shocked when we let Gaston go on loan last season as we didn't have anyone like him in our squad - and still don't have a no10 type of player - but he didn't seem to do anything at Hull or even force himself into a struggling team so unlikely to come back to us and be a world beater.

We're a team that improves players

Such a pleasing contrast with the bad old days when we were relegated and dropping down the leagues. Successive managers just couldn't get the best out of players (except Walcott, Bale and one or two others) then.

Back to the thread, buying the best is always going to be a risk. Having to bear the costs of Osvaldo situations is only possible if we continue to do good business selling and replacing. Luckily we have a financial cushion at present, and canny operators in Koeman and Les. Long may it continue.

So who is footing the bill for Gaston's wages now? Do Hull pay everything while he is on loan with them?

So who is footing the bill for Gaston's wages now? Do Hull pay everything while he is on loan with them?

We are no doubt, he's no longer on loan at Hull, loans finish with the season.

From his comments pre and early season, it seemed to me that Ron was planning and happy to have gaston in the sqaud. I think it was a last minute board decision to get his wages off the books when a healthy offer from hull arrived.

Again he had a bad time in the main at hull & I don't think he wanted to go there really and tbh who could blame him. I expect that if we get an offer for a perm transfer he will leave on the cheap.

I do think however that there is a chance he will stay this season. I still believe he has the ability to pick that pass even though he is a long way from earning a start. would be a decent option off the bench when teams sit back against us at St Mary's even if an expensive one.

Ramirez started to make more of an impact in games last season before his injury at Sunderland. If he wasn't earning so much, it would be great to still have him with us. He is our only proper Number 10 and our most creative player.

That said, he (and his agent) won't be happy not being a starter but unless we subsidise his wages his he really going to move? Last year of contract next season and then he can get a good wage as a free transfer.

The frustrating thing is that the talent is there. A year ago I was all for giving him a chance. He had that at Hull and didn't take it. His time's up.

Spot on. He did nothing at Hull to suggest that he wanted to make a go of things there or at any other potential club.

Spot on. He did nothing at Hull to suggest that he wanted to make a go of things there or at any other potential club.

In fact he went to Hull for the money, he was all set to go to Seville but when Hull came in for him he dropped them without a word and signed at Hull. Seville were mightily parsed off.

These two are part of the reason Cortese was told resign or be sacked.

These two are part of the reason Cortese was told resign or be sacked.

ITK or speculation?

So it seems we are stuck with Ramirez, unless someone offers us 10p for him and is willing to pay his wages. He has to put in the work rate to impress Koeman, and bearing in mind what Soton Joe said about us needing more players for Europen commitments, he is going to have to up his game if he wants to save his career. Saints European venture just could be the challenge he needs to pull himself out of the doldrums. It's not a question of giving him another chance. It is for Gaston to prove himself, for his own good.

May be Bologna wants him back.

These two are part of the reason Cortese was told resign or be sacked.

I understood it was the Staplewood £24m overspend. I suppose if you add the fees, agents fees and wages of these 2 you've got about 50 million reasons why his employer may have become a tiny bit unhappy.

I understood it was the Staplewood £24m overspend. I suppose if you add the fees, agents fees and wages of these 2 you've got about 50 million reasons why his employer may have become a tiny bit unhappy.

It was a combination of those things plus his failure to actually make any money, (see our corporate sales) and his increasing strained relationship with Kat. Towards the end he wouldn't even giving anyone proper access to the books, just reporting a top line figure back in, presumably trying to cover up his multitude of financial errors. Kat wanted greater access to the finances, he said no, so she told him to resign with a pay off or be fired. Yes he played a part in our rise back up the league and did a good job for a while. arguably in the end our progress was inspite of him not because of him like many believed on here. The proof is in the pudding, rather than the club falling to pieces like Cortese pals in the media wanted we've gone completely the other way. I was always very consistent in my view and took a lot of grief of here because of it, but only an idiot would deny St Mary's is a much better place now he's not there.

It was a combination of those things plus his failure to actually make any money, (see our corporate sales) and his increasing strained relationship with Kat. Towards the end he wouldn't even giving anyone proper access to the books, just reporting a top line figure back in, presumably trying to cover up his multitude of financial errors. Kat wanted greater access to the finances, he said no, so she told him to resign with a pay off or be fired. Yes he played a part in our rise back up the league and did a good job for a while. arguably in the end our progress was inspite of him not because of him like many believed on here. The proof is in the pudding, rather than the club falling to pieces like Cortese pals in the media wanted we've gone completely the other way. I was always very consistent in my view and took a lot of grief of here because of it, but only an idiot would deny St Mary's is a much better place now he's not there.

Good summary Del. I'd heard much the same but wasn't aware that he was given an ultimatum, just that he had to go. No loss whatsoever.

It is interesting to see that our two latest signings this week have been distinctly less expensive ones than either of these foreign players were - by some margin actually. Is this now club policy?

 

Can it be that the club has concluded that the obvious failure of the Osveldo and Ramirez transfers show that there is little or no 'value for money' in signing players in the £10m to £15m bracket because they are ultimately no more likely to prove successful here in the PL than those who cost less than £5m?

 

My little theory may be blown out of the water next week of course if the club splash out on another 'big money' transfer such as Charlie Austin for example. Time will tell I suppose.

I think Austin would be far less of a gamble as he's already proved he can deliver the goods at Premiership level.....would be pleased go get him......I think most of us were a bit clueless as to who Ramirez and Osvaldo were, I know I was!!

What a massive mistake signing these two.

Think they were being paid £40000 a week.

Big mistake.

£40,000? Think you'll find it's nearer to £60,000.

What a massive mistake signing these two.

Think they were being paid £40000 a week.

Big mistake.

First time I have seen this observation posted on here. Really made me think.

Wouldn't mind Gaston just for Europa and cup games. Could be suited. A good month or two and his value soars. He has something, he's not even lightweight, not sure why he's struggled after a really good first few months.

His contract expires on 30th June 2016, his value is dropping by the day.

His contract expires on 30th June 2016, his value is dropping by the day.

So it wouldn't improve if he played well and got noticed.

So it wouldn't improve if he played well and got noticed.

Wouldn't have thought so, not with his contract running down to 0. Added to the fact that European clubs can sign him on a free pre-contract in January.

His value will be as low as ever, even if he plays.

So it wouldn't improve if he played well and got noticed.

Not unless we gave him a new contract. If we play him in Europa League and League cup games this coming season as adriansfc is suggesting, when January comes around he will be free to discuss joining foreign clubs on a Bosman in the summer of 2016. His transfer value would be small given the status of only having 6 months left on his contract.

At the time they showed we were a club with ambition but both reek of being purchased outside the black box method, which appears to be a little less maverick in its player choices

£40,000? Think you'll find it's nearer to £60,000.

£60,000? More like £94,000!

Connor Armstrong ‏@ConnorArmstrong

Dani Osvaldo will be returning to #SaintsFC. Boca Juniors pursuing deal for Tevez, and personal problems in Argentina for Osvaldo also.

Connor Armstrong ‏@ConnorArmstrong

Don't expect to see Osvaldo in pre-season training on Monday, though. Not welcome at Staplewood - a loan move to Lazio beckoning. #SaintsFC

Its in the corriere dello Sport...He was offered a pay cut at Boca but his agent wants him in Italy with either Lazio or Fiorentina.

http://www.corrieredellosport.it/news/calcio/calcio-mercato/2015/06/24-1922270/osvaldo_offerto_alla_lazio_fiorentina_in_seconda_fila/

The same paper also mentions we are keen on Italian under 21 midfielder Benassi- who might be lining up aganst JWP tonight...I watched him playing against portugal and thought he did well. Unlikely but just adding it in there for you...

http://www.corrieredellosport.it/news/calcio/calcio-mercato/2015/06/24-1926571/torino_che_rebus_benassi_southampton_sullo_sfondo/

Can't we just sell him rather than all these loans?

Can't we just sell him rather than all these loans?

Would be ideal, but to be honest - if we can get Lazio (or whoever) to cover his wages, it probably saves us around £3m a year.

Managing to shift Osvaldo would be a big win.