City 3 - 1 Saints Reaction.

Originally Posted by SuperSAINT

 

Adam Blackmore ‏@bigadamsport

#saintsfc skipper Jose Fonte will be ok for @CapitalOne_Cup Q-F v Villa - has a cut knee. Cedric was dropped from squad today, not injured

 

 

 

 

Equally bizarre is us playing Aston Villa in The Cup QF

Investigative journalism at it's finest by Blackmore there...

As much as I like the guy, there's a stubbornness about Koeman that infuriates me.

 

I'm okay with Yoshida as cover in central defence, but how many more chances does Koeman need before he realizes that his lack of pace kills us when Maya's played wide? City must have been salivating at the thought of a Sterling/Maya match-up.

 

JWP blew his marking assignment a number of times today - mainly with ball-watching, and compounded a poor performance with several bad midfield giveaways. He's going to be fine but for a smart kid he seems to be learning very slowly.

 

Mané is what he's always been and probably always will be - a tremendous instinct player whose game falls apart if he needs to think before he does something.

 

Koeman should have addressed the "silly bookings" issue long ago because it's been a problem for some time. We don't have the squad to be able to lose players like Pelle, Mane, Wanyama and Romeu.

 

Thank god we signed VvD. I just wish we'd signed Vardy when we should have done, back in 2012.

Wouldn't put Romeo in that category not been good IMO.

Wouldn't put Romeo in that category not been good IMO.

Agreed, but lose both of them at the same time and we get very lightweight in a vital area. I think they're both on the verge of suspension.

Agreed, but lose both of them at the same time and we get very lightweight in a vital area. I think they're both on the verge of suspension.

Why has Harry reed been banished? Do me he's better than jwp.

People are bemoaning that Koeman didn't pick our strongest available line up, but isn't that because he/we want to play our best team on Wednesday?

 

If he'd played our strongest 11 today and then gone out of the cup on Wednesday (due to lack of freshness, injury, etc) then the post match thread on Wednesday would be full of people slagging Koeman off for not resting players vs Man City.

 

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't....?

Some posters would undoubtedly be guilty of this - you can probably guess who fairly easily. Devil's advocate, can such a tactic be justified if you lose the match you were resting players for? It certainly exposes you (Koeman) to criticism.

People are bemoaning that Koeman didn't pick our strongest available line up, but isn't that because he/we want to play our best team on Wednesday?

 

If he'd played our strongest 11 today and then gone out of the cup on Wednesday (due to lack of freshness, injury, etc) then the post match thread on Wednesday would be full of people slagging Koeman off for not resting players vs Man City.

 

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't....?

Good point. Maybe Sir Ronald is doing an anti-Poch, and playing the weakened team in the league, saving all first choices for the cup. If we win on Wednesday all is forgiven.

Why has Harry reed been banished? Do me he's better than jwp.

Based on what? I'm not a big fan of JWP but Reed has made a handful of appearances for the first team not sure we can make him out to be better based on that. If he was better than JWP he would be getting into the first team on a regular basis which he isn't.

Koeman frustrates the hell out of me. City are a very very good side and they showed at times today how good they are in the final third, but under Pellegrini they have always been suspect defensively, and without Hart and Kompany we really could have gone there and had a go at them. Instead our manager put the most defensive team out he possibly could. A CB playing at right back, no midfielder in the team capable or willing to pass forwards and our most creative player this season left on the bench. We lost the game in the first 20 minutes because the players heads were all over the place, because the mindset is totally determined by the team selection. As a result we sat back and invited them onto us, and then individual errors start creeping in.

 

If Cedric is fit he should start (how will he get better defensively unless he gets tested)

If Mane is fit he should start (I didn't see nay other teams resting key players last weekend after the international break)

If Tadic is fit he should start (him and Gaston are our ONLY creative players)

If Clasie is fit he should start (been one of the better players recently, we paid a lot for him, and he won't get match fitness unless he plays)

 

I can obviously cope with losing away to City or at home to United, or even Stoke, but not in the manner that we do when we routinely give them the momentum and advantage from the second the team sheet is handed in.

 

Well played Tadic and Long in particular who showed he IS capable if given chances to play up front. Let's use him more often in that position when Pelle isn't firing.

Wanyama was abysmal. Horrendous control on multiple occasions and can't pass for toffee. Drop him for now and give Romeu/Reed chances to stake their claim for that role, because we know Wanyama is off soon anyway

I would second this. Wanyama is having a sub-par season, and he's had a couple of rank bad appearances within the last month. Given that the majority of his passes are short distance passes, his completion percentage needs to be near perfect, and it isn't. Someone in his position needs to be much more responsible with the ball than he has been (by some measure), it's just *so* crucial for that role. At any rate, I'd certainly welcome Romeu starting at home against Villa on Saturday - it might just wake Wanyama up.

Based on what? I'm not a big fan of JWP but Reed has made a handful of appearances for the first team not sure we can make him out to be better based on that. If he was better than JWP he would be getting into the first team on a regular basis which he isn't.

Based on the matches he played last season being better than anything I've ever seen from jwp.

wanyama is careless and can't pass

we only have four prem quality defenders, any injuries and we're screwed - we need some new ones, jose is reminding me of his dodgy championship season

jwp ain't that good

we need a new morgan and the version of big vic that concentrates and gives a t0ss

we need our high energy pressing game back

i look at spurs and am jealous

Based on the matches he played last season being better than anything I've ever seen from jwp.

what all five league appearances....

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/players/harrison-reed/profile-97

wanyama is careless and can't pass

we only have four prem quality defenders, any injuries and we're screwed - we need some new ones, jose is reminding me of his dodgy championship season

jwp ain't that good

we need a new morgan and the version of big vic that concentrates and gives a t0ss

we need our high energy pressing game back

i look at spurs and am jealous

Really? I kind of remember people complaining about pochs tactics and game management at times and Koeman finished higher last season not employing those tactics.

what all five league appearances....

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/players/harrison-reed/profile-97

Yes only in my opinion mate. Played very well vs Everton, Arsenal and Newcastle last season.

Yes only in my opinion mate. Played very well vs Everton, Arsenal and Newcastle last season.

No problem if that's your opinion. I personally don't think Reed has played enough (telling in it's self) for people to claim him as better than JWP (who is frankly bloody average) Reed is starting to become one of those players who gets better by not playing. Honestly, do you not think, if Koeman thought Reed was better than one of our other midfielders he would not play him?

No problem if that's your opinion. I personally don't think Reed has played enough (telling in it's self) for people to claim him as better than JWP (who is frankly bloody average) Reed is starting to become one of those players who gets better by not playing. Honestly, do you not think, if Koeman thought Reed was better than one of our other midfielders he would not play him?

That old chestnut. That's assuming that managers are never wrong. Ie fergie getting rid of pogba and buying taibi. I'm sure there's good reasons I'm just simply stating that the matches I've seen reed in he has performed above what I've seen from jwp.

A shame we were not more bold from the start in both team selection or set-up. We were far too defensive which invited Man City to attack us and they were only more than happy to do so since the one thing they hate doing is defending (because they can't do it).

Only when the game was effectively over did we sort ourselves out and attempt to give them a game. I absolutely hated the balance in the centre of the park with Romeu (who continues to underwhelm for me), Wanyama and Ward-Prowse. When we had the ball the passing was not good enough and having Davis out on the left was a massive waste given the form he is in right now.

As for the Yoshida selection, it appears he plays not based on the merit of the opposition we face but rather that when Mane starts on the right Koeman doesn't trust him to support his full back so he plays Yoshida. The logic behind this is somewhat sound but the thing that completely undermines it is Yoshida's ability to make major mistakes which lead to goals. Right now I'd rather be challenging Cedric in that role to deal with Mane's lack of cover than to continue seeing Yoshida cost us.

Despite all this we had a golden chance to equalise but it wasn't to be.

But the main thing for me - don't be overly defensive in games because he doesn't play to our strengths and our record at coming from behind is awful. We always need a start in games.

what all five league appearances....

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/players/harrison-reed/profile-97

Yep, Reed deserves a chance.....JWP is a 'nothing' player and only included in the team/squad, as others have alluded to....because he's been through the academy.

A waste of a first team place.

Yep, Reed deserves a chance.....JWP is a 'nothing' player and only included in the team/squad, as others have alluded to....because he's been through the academy.

 

A waste of a first team place.

And Reed deserves a chance because, well, he's, err, been through the academy.

I didn't see the game, or even the highlights yet. But it sounds to me as if it was a match big Ron had already chalked off in terms of much hope of points from. The cup is probably more important at this stage.

Yep, Reed deserves a chance.....JWP is a 'nothing' player and only included in the team/squad, as others have alluded to....because he's been through the academy.

 

A waste of a first team place.

and you want to play Reed because....err he has come from academy. I don't rate JWP much at all but seeing as he has dozens of PL appearances under different managers to his name and Reed has less than ten you have to assume Reed isn't all that or by now he would be forcing his way into the team which he isn't.

Pretty much as expected really even an injury hit citeh squad is still full of quality.

They were beatable - we were far too negative.

Has Koeman ever explained why he plays Yoshida at right back?

A few weeks back on Radio Solent (can't recall what game) -- he said that he (paraphrasing) "likes to play Yoshida there when he feels he needs more height at the back at set plays in certain games". Not sure if that relates particularly to his reasoning today, but as no-one had mentioned it yet, it does offer an answer to your question.

Whether or not that extra height at the back is worth sacrificing a great right-back, to play a decent back-up Centre-Back who can't really play in that position to some level of competence, actually represents sound managerial thinking -- is of course somewhat dubious and up for debate.

Decent effort second half. Shame we didn't put that in last week, we would have had 3 points from 6, not none and a 'valiant effort'.

O

A few weeks back on Radio Solent (can't recall what game) -- he said that he (paraphrasing) "likes to play Yoshida there when he feels he needs more height at the back at set plays in certain games". Not sure if that relates particularly to his reasoning today, but as no-one had mentioned it yet, it does offer an answer to your question.

 

Whether or not that extra height at the back is worth sacrificing a great right-back, to play a decent back-up Centre-Back who can't really play in that position to some level of competence, actually represents sound managerial thinking -- is of course somewhat dubious and up for debate.

The explanations seem to be; height, protecting the right flank when Mane plays there, and flexibility to go three at the back, none of which reasons are justified, in my opinion, by Yoshida's performances at right back. Having seen the highlights on Motd, Mane could/should have given Yoshida an option wide before he lost possession leading to the first goal. If he had done so, Yoshida would have played it down the line but it was still a crass error by Yoshida. For the killer third, Yoshida got sucked in to the centre and left the **** a free shot at goal. Arguably, JWP should have tracked back his man, who Yoshida went to pick up, but that man wasn't his responsibility. He should have covered Kolarov.

Bigger picture. I couldn't make this one but went last season and City were the best side against us that I saw all last season. Despite the injuries they are still a good side, which they should be with the money they pay, so bin it and move on.

Could have been a different game if we'd either started well or if Tadic had scored. Yoshida was **** throughout but we were so sloppy everywhere. JWP was totally irrelevant.

People should get a grip, 2 of City's front 3 cost £50m each and the other one is Aguero.

I'm not going to moan too much as I expected a loss but i'm getting sick and ****ing tired of Koeman setting us up to defend. Every time we do it, we concede. I'm also getting sick and tired of seeing Yoshida playing at RB. really sick of it. How many times have we said that a team was there for the taking and we've not won? Well City really were there for the taking.

I'm not going to moan too much as I expected a loss but i'm getting sick and ****ing tired of Koeman setting us up to defend. Every time we do it, we concede. I'm also getting sick and tired of seeing Yoshida playing at RB. really sick of it. How many times have we said that a team was there for the taking and we've not won? Well City really were there for the taking.

I see. Sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Watching the Sky highlights..we did not play badly but there is no excuse for playing Yoshida at RB..and Ward-Prowse is non-existent. Koeman's selections yet again questionable.

We do seem to be very stand off-ish with sides at the mo

Villa at home next weekend. Who lets be honest, are total shyte

Just watched Vardy (on MOTD) break the Prem record.

In front of Roy too. At the same time, Rooney plodded around the pitch doing very little, again.

No doubt that roy will play Vardy left wing in order to shoe-horn rooney in the side.

Vardy will no doubt be dropped the moment sturridge is partially fit

England needs to be Kane in the 10 posn with vardy up front like he is for leicester. he is absolutely on fire.

Newcastle on now. - PARDEW OUT!!!!!

edit. Just seen City's 3rd goal again Powder puff from JWP and yoshida is ALL OVER THE PLACE in defence. ends up past the left hand post and left kolerov with acres of space. not only that, as yosh dropped over to the left, he was way deeper than every one else

Totally agree that the starting team was wrong and we needed to press them from the start.

We didn't deserve anything after the first 20 minutes but if Virgil's shot had gone in or Tadic taken his chance it would have been interesting. Agreed they missed sitters too.

Can only hope the selection means the priority is now the cups and we'll have a full strength team throwing everything at Liverpool on Weds. Could be a cracking game as I guess Klopp wants a cup too.

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Really? I kind of remember people complaining about pochs tactics and game management at times and Koeman finished higher last season not employing those tactics.

And Pochettino finished still higher using the same tactics with different/better players...what's the point really.

Yesterday wasn't about tactics, it was about the choice of players and their ability to perform the tactical system in place..

Pochettino is a better manager than Koeman, for the EPL anyway, at the end of their respective careers in the EPL Poch will achieve more.

Rested Clasie, Tadic, Soares, and we also have an involuntarily rested Pelle to come back too; and kept the GD to -2, well played RK.

Isn't this what everybody wanted for cup games?

Rested Clasie, Tadic, Soares, and we also have an involuntarily rested Pelle to come back too; and kept the GD to -2, well played RK.

 

Isn't this what everybody wanted for cup games?

Why do players need to be "rested" all of the time, we didn't have a midweek game. Look at top sides, same side for most games, 3 games every 8 days. Are our players weaklings or something?

And Pochettino finished still higher using the same tactics with different/better players...what's the point really.

Yesterday wasn't about tactics, it was about the choice of players and their ability to perform the tactical system in place..

Pochettino is a better manager than Koeman, for the EPL anyway, at the end of their respective careers in the EPL Poch will achieve more.

? poch did better with better players at spurs no **** shurlock.

poch did better with better players at spurs no **** shurlock.

it was always going to happen

interestingly, what would your best 11 be of a saints/spurs side combined?

it was always going to happen

 

interestingly, what would your best 11 be of a saints/spurs side combined?

I reckon:

Lloris

Walker, Alderweireld, Van Dijk, Bertrand

Dier, Wanyama (when playing properly), Alli

Eriksen, Mane

Kane

It's perhaps worth casting our minds back to last season at home against Man city when we attached them from the start

Yo****a at fault for first and third goal, please Koeman give up on him as a right back option

Yoshi ta at fault for first and third goal, please Koeman give up on him as a right back option

It's perhaps worth casting our minds back to last season at home against Man city when we attached them from the start

Weren't we 0-0 at half time and then Morgan went off injured to be replaced by...yep you've guessed it...Yoshida ?

We then lost 3-0 of course.

I reckon:

 

Lloris

 

Walker, Alderweireld, Van Dijk, Bertrand

 

Dier, Wanyama (when playing properly), Alli

 

Eriksen, Mane

 

Kane

Yestrday's game first. Thought Yoshida was truly terrible and cost us the game. Think Koeman's tactics were to hold out for 60 minutes and then bring on Tadic and go for it in the second half but that badly backfired. Think JWP's being really harshly criticised on here. Thought he had a decent game but still wouldn't have him as a first choice. Watching Saints this season is v frustrating as I get the feeling that the team is quite close (80%) to being really good but the part that isn't (20%) is truly terrible and often costs us. The frustrating thing is that the terrible bit varies from game to game. One part gets fixed and another goes wrong, e.g. Tadic had no penetration against Stoke but was excellent yesterday. Team badly needs some consistency.

As for the combined Spuds/Saints team I'd go for :

Lloris

Walker, Alderweireld, Van Dijk, Bertrand

Clasie, Wanyama

Mane, Eriksen, Tadic

Kane

Yestrday's game first. Thought Yoshida was truly terrible and cost us the game. Think Koeman's tactics were to hold out for 60 minutes and then bring on Tadic and go for it in the second half but that badly backfired. Think JWP's being really harshly criticised on here. Thought he had a decent game but still wouldn't have him as a first choice. Watching Saints this season is v frustrating as I get the feeling that the team is quite close (80%) to being really good but the part that isn't (20%) is truly terrible and often costs us. The frustrating thing is that the terrible bit varies from game to game. One part gets fixed and another goes wrong, e.g. Tadic had no penetration against Stoke but was excellent yesterday. Team badly needs some consistency.

 

As for the combined Spuds/Saints team I'd go for :

 

Lloris

 

Walker, Alderweireld, Van Dijk, Bertrand

 

Clasie, Wanyama

 

Mane, Eriksen, Tadic

 

Kane

Loris, walker, Toby, vvd, Bertrand, Clasie, alli, mane, eriksen, Tadic/dembele/son, Kane

Wanyama wouldn't get in Spurs team frankly. He's been awful. No touch, crap passing that never goes forwards and at times yesterday he just stopped trying. We were offered a chance in the summer to flog him for decent money and we should have taken it. We'll be luck to get 8 million for him next summer.

We need a complete rethink of our midfield next summer to build around Clasie. Wanyama will go and JWP and Reed are never likely to be good enough.

We are a mid table side who have gone until the end of November with an unbeaten away record. We lose at City. I assume that Ron has an eye on a big match on Wednesday. If that is where his priority is and we beat Liverpool is that such a bad thing?

We are a mid table side who have gone until the end of November with an unbeaten away record. We lose at City. I assume that Ron has an eye on a big match on Wednesday. If that is where his priority is and we beat Liverpool is that such a bad thing?

Are we really saying the players can't play 2 games in 4 days?

Are we really saying the players can't play 2 games in 4 days?

Some don't seem to be able to do that, well if you assume Koeman's erratic team selections are for that reason anyway.

Why was Clasie dropped yesterday? Hasn't played much, hasn't done any internationals and yet he needs to be rested, I'd have thought what he needs just now is football not afties on the bench. Or was it because Koeman thought he'd be physically overwhelmed by Touré and Fernandinho ? Touré was crap, Clasie might have had a good game.

Are we really saying the players can't play 2 games in 4 days?

I don't know what his thinking is and I don't know what the situation with the players is. I also think that the manager can only do so much and once the players cross that line they need to take responsibility for their performance. Yoshida has plenty of support on here for example. Why? One minute we have the best squad in depth ever but we lose a match and then we don't. If resting Cedric and giving Tadic a half means that we have a better chance of beating Liverpool I am happy with that.

Some don't seem to be able to do that, well if you assume Koeman's erratic team selections are for that reason anyway.

Why was Clasie dropped yesterday? Hasn't played much, hasn't done any internationals and yet he needs to be rested, I'd have thought what he needs just now is football not afties on the bench. Or was it because Koeman thought he'd be physically overwhelmed by Touré and Fernandinho ? Touré was crap, Clasie might have had a good game.

I am not saying this is the case, but if Ron sees the Liverpool match as being more important, and we win, would you be happy?

Some don't seem to be able to do that, well if you assume Koeman's erratic team selections are for that reason anyway.

Why was Clasie dropped yesterday? Hasn't played much, hasn't done any internationals and yet he needs to be rested, I'd have thought what he needs just now is football not afties on the bench. Or was it because Koeman thought he'd be physically overwhelmed by Touré and Fernandinho ? Touré was crap, Clasie might have had a good game.

Koeman said in the presser that Clasie can't play three in a week yet. So by that logic he decided to save him for Liverpool where I guess he will be subbed after 70mins as he also cannot last the pace for 90mins yet.

I am not saying this is the case, but if Ron sees the Liverpool match as being more important, and we win, would you be happy?

Professional players should be able to handle 2 games a week, there was no reason to drop them yesterday at all. Liverpool played Thursday, they play this afternoon and again on Wednesday, think they'll field a depleted side today because they fancy their chances on Wednesday? I really really doubt it. He'll put out a side to win on both occasions.

Koeman said in the presser that Clasie can't play three in a week yet. So by that logic he decided to save him for Liverpool where I guess he will be subbed after 70mins as he also cannot last the pace for 90mins yet.

Where does 3 in a week come from, Sat,Sat,Weds, I make that 10 days. Compared to Liverpool's Thurs,Sun,Weds now that's 3 in a week.