The JWP Conundrum

The third goal today summed him up for me. Too weak, too lightweight, not ready to influence a PL game.

Saints have given him a lucrative Premier League career. He needs to start giving the club something back. In 80 plus PL appearances his highlights reel is very thin in terms of tangible things he brings to the side or games he has been above 6/10.

I can think of one this season, Norwich, where they had 10 men for more than 45 mins. He played well as there was space you don't normally get.

Easy to say it is a "big year" for any player but from the quite extensive amount of games he has played I need to see more to justify the number of starts he gets. He is probably near or above the average mark for number of PL games played so shouldn't be judged as a promising youngster any longer.

Less talk in interviews, better performances.

Been saying for over a year he is not good enough. He will not come good after time

either.

If you can't tackle or play forwards or head the ball or actually trouble the

goalkeeper with any shooting chance then what is left.

Oh yes he runs around a lot and he is a dead ball specialist, now that last

bit is the one that really winds me up.

he obviously has excellent technique.

He is a very. very good pro

Just that his early promise is not materialising. Delli Alli is having the impact that we hoped JWP would have had.

Just seen too slow to play CM in the premier league. And as for a dead ball specialist. Needs to have scored a couple of free kicks by now.

Talk a very good game, mind

The number of articles about him hoping to make the Euro 2016 squad and the various comments from Hodgson and Southgate have made me think I'm missing something - but really he has done nothing on the pitch so far to warrant being a Saints regular let alone anywhere near the England squad. I genuinely don't know what he does, what he brings to the team or even what his best position is.

He is a squad player. A utility man that can do a passable job anywhere in midfield when injuries and suspensions hit. The sort of player a manger likes to have in the squad for versatility but that shouldn't be starting unless better players are unavailable. being "one of our own" isn't enough to cover up his deficiencies anymore.

Apart from 2 through balls that led to goals against Newcastle and Palace last season it is a real struggle to think of any meaningful impact he has had in open play. He can't shoot from open play(fecking awful in fact) and is generally slow and lightweight. He hits a decent whipped in dead ball (mainly from corners) but apart from a free kick that hit the post against West Brom (IIRC) has never got anywhere near scoring.

It would seem that Ron and the rest of the backroom team see something in training that makes them keep picking him (intermittently) as if hoping it will suddenly click and he starts performing the same way during actual matches. Hopefully this is what will happen but Christ I'm getting bored waiting.

Plays well for England, generally anonymous for us. Don't know why.

Sadly I find his play boring and pedestrian to watch.

Set pieces are that good(hasn't scored for us from one) 1 goal which was a penalty in his saints career, can't tackle, can't shoot, no left foot, very slow and hides. Oh can't head either. For me isn't even a squad player.

Plays well for England, generally anonymous for us. Don't know why.

Sadly I find his play boring and pedestrian to watch.

Different class of football that's why. In the Unders he's playing against young players who aren't good enough to make their nations' senior group, ie not in the 2/3 best players of that country in their position. In the PL he's playing against the whole spectrum of players and his limitations are more obvious. Unders football should never be used as a yardstick unless all players eligible for the level play in said level.

Been saying for over a year he is not good enough. He will not come good after time

either.

If you can't tackle or play forwards or head the ball or actually trouble the goalkeeper with any shooting chance then what is left.

 

Oh yes he runs around a lot and he is a dead ball specialist, now that last bit is the one that really winds me up.

Agreed but the young David Beckham only got good reviews when he scored spectacular goals, in between he was often dross, and in his first 20 or so England games he was a total waste of space. Agreed also that JWP is lacking "something" in his game....now it's upto him to find it.

maybe like Steven Davis, if he scores a few goals....people will get off his back and stop criticising him. Must be stressful to go through games without scoring.

He is a squad player. A utility man that can do a passable job anywhere in midfield when injuries and suspensions hit. The sort of player a manger likes to have in the squad for versatility but that shouldn't be starting unless better players are unavailable. being "one of our own" isn't enough to cover up his deficiencies anymore.

If he was seen in this light I'd be happy enough because I think you've summed up his current status after 100 or so appearances. The trouble is the hype and publicity about him has always been bugled as the next big thing, while if you watch the guy week in, week out, he's just a plodder with a few technical skills, akin to a Rugby player who can kick penalties from all over the park but not much else. If the hype levels abated and the evaluation of JWP's capabilities were more realistic then we have a tremendously versatile squad player able to fill in and play a role for years into the future.

His potential appeared enormous when he first started playing. That is why he got hyped. Not really a stick to beat him with.

Personally, I think his best position is a deeper midfielder, a la Classie or Morgan, but due to his versatility he gets shifted around a lot and hasn't had the chance to develop there. I don't think he can play alongside Vic or Romeu as they are both quite slow as well. I can't see him ever getting a chance in that role at Saints so he will need to decide if he's happy in the utility squad role or if he needs to drop down and develop himself as a CM.

His potential appeared enormous when he first started playing. That is why he got hyped. Not really a stick to beat him with.

 

Personally, I think his best position is a deeper midfielder, a la Classie or Morgan, but due to his versatility he gets shifted around a lot and hasn't had the chance to develop there. I don't think he can play alongside Vic or Romeu as they are both quite slow as well. I can't see him ever getting a chance in that role at Saints so he will need to decide if he's happy in the utility squad role or if he needs to drop down and develop himself as a CM.

It probably is his best position on the ball but I think he lacks the aggression to play there and is far, far too easy to just run beyond.

You don't need to be a Keane or Cattermole type but you do need some presence and tenacity unless you are playing for a Barcelona type team who is going to have 70%+ possession every week.

Does he have that in his locker, can he develop aggression? Jury is out for me.

Perhaps Pochettino made him look a better player than he actually is, seems to be the case (according to many) with Lallana, Lovren, Chambers and Lambert.

Perhaps Pochettino made him look a better player than he actually is, seems to be the case (according to many) with Lallana, Lovren, Chambers and Lambert.

I wouldn't say his form has varied particularly under any of our Managers.

I wouldn't say his form has varied particularly under any of our Managers.

But it was at that epoque that "big clubs" were supposed to be enquiring about him and preparing mega bids wasn't it.

Hype and gossip of course but he was making the headlines, who knows perhaps the club were actively encouraging that.

Perhaps Pochettino made him look a better player than he actually is, seems to be the case (according to many) with Lallana, Lovren, Chambers and Lambert.

As I remember it, Poch used to haul JWP off the park regularly or send him on as a sub late in the game - and his performances were remarkably similar to the present time. I'm happy to be corrected on that. I think most would agree that JWP has been the hopeful next star from the production line of the academy, and it hasn't worked out.

As I remember it, Poch used to haul JWP off the park regularly or send him on as a sub late in the game - and his performances were remarkably similar to the present time. I'm happy to be corrected on that. I think most would agree that JWP has been the hopeful next star from the production line of the academy, and it hasn't worked out.

Well there have been "stars" from the academy that came after and went before but I get your point. Without JWP there is virtually no academy representation in Saints current side but I doubt that he's being forced upon Koeman as a token value.

Well there have been "stars" from the academy that came after and went before but I get your point. Without JWP there is virtually no academy representation in Saints current side but I doubt that he's being forced upon Koeman as a token value.

Agreed; he's not a token value of the academy being forced upon Koeman; he's a better player than that. Just the same, the aura built up by the Club's PR and marketing department along with sections of the national press seem to have created this mindset about how good he is and how good his future is going to be, and as long as the perception of him remains so distorted I think we're going to be disappointed.

I usually watches all Saints games on TV here in Sweden with my oldest daughter and today we talked about why Prowsie takes all corners and also all free kicks around the box. usually corners courses danger for the attacking team but Prowsies corners are to weak and never creates danger and also the same can be said about his freekicks.

I hate being negative about Saints players but in this case I can't understand the hype that's been created around him.

He's still only 21, and he's still developing. Can't understand why so many on here are determined to run him down.

He's still only 21, and he's still developing. Can't understand why so many on here are determined to run him down.

People are only giving their opinions , what are they meant to do? Pretend they think hes a good player?

He's average at best , not a patch on Jack Cork and nowhere near Steve Davis' level. He's a "nearly" player, nearly makes a tackle, nearly takes a great set picece, nearly makes a killer pass.

I don't care how old he is , if he picks up a wage packet , if he talks about England, if he is an adult , I'll judge him on what I see. What's he actually good at, he's got to be our slowest player, hes weak in the tackle, he can't score, he doesn't have a trick or beat people , hes a set piece specialist, who doesn't actually create anything , what exactly are his strengths, OK forget strengths, name one strength he's got.Being young or passing sideways are not strengths .

Better judges than can be found on here have been rating him as a future Saints and England star...and by better I mean that they have visibility of his daily/yearly development based on more than his introduction and subsequent performances in the PL that we see. I know he appears lightweight and a little slow at times but he appears to have a good football brain, good skill level so I'm a little surprised at the criticisms....particularly given his on-going commitment.

What does "his ongoing commitment" mean?

Better judges than can be found on here have been rating him as a future Saints and England star...and by better I mean that they have visibility of his daily/yearly development based on more than his introduction and subsequent performances in the PL that we see. I know he appears lightweight and a little slow at times but he appears to have a good football brain, good skill level so I'm a little surprised at the criticisms....particularly given his on-going commitment.

Honestly I'd rather have Alli or Barkley, even if they do project the image of having the brain of a plank of wood. Football brains are only of use in modern football if you have the skills to back it up. I mean Einstein well not a great footballer was he...good brain though.

Better judges than can be found on here have been rating him as a future Saints and England star...and by better I mean that they have visibility of his daily/yearly development based on more than his introduction and subsequent performances in the PL that we see.

Let's flog him quick then .

It reminds me of the Emperors new clothes , lets get rid in Jan before someone shouts out "he's bollocko" .

What does "his ongoing commitment" mean?

Bit of a poster boy for Saints, has red and white flowing through his veins despite his geographical disadvantaged birthplace! :-)

Let's flog him quick then .

 

It reminds me of the Emperors new clothes , lets get rid in Jan before someone shouts out "he's bollocko" .

And watch him become the player that he is projected to be for someone else?

I think that there is a tendency amongst supporters generally (not just us) to take what we have for granted and undervalue our home produced players through familiarity unless they make a Luke Shaw style instant impact.

He offers very little other than an occasional good delivery into the box. One goal ( which was a penalty) says it all. He's had a few seasons now and isn' t really developing or improving. I've said for a while he's a championship player at best. For some reason though, maybe because he's another one from the academy, we are meant to give him time. Enough is enough.

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I think that there is a tendency amongst supporters generally (not just us) to take what we have for granted and undervalue our home produced players through familiarity unless they make a Luke Shaw style instant impact.

I think the complete opposite is true . Because of our previous sucsessful academy players people are desperate for him to be next off the production line . It's a victory for hope over reality. The press want to write " another one" from saints academy, the club obviously want it and supporters want it , but it's really not going to happen . Had we signed him from abroad he'd be called a waste of money .

When are we going to start seeing performances that live up to the hype , because he's been around the first team 4 years and has yet to produce anything that convinces me he's anything other than Andrew Surman mk2 ?

I still think it's him or Davis. Davis has been better this season, but his finishing is still frustrating and I don't rate his set pieces at all. But with Davis around and starting 30+ a season, JWP isn't going to flourish.

Yup, the unfortunate truth of the matter is that neither of them are capable of putting in dominant attacking CM performances. They are both just conservative, ball-preserving midfielders, with Davis' better physicality and tenacity giving him the starting edge over JWP's superior dead balls most of the time. In recent weeks Clasie has shown signs that he might be capable of playing incisive passes from a central position, but until he recovered from his injury, the middle of the park was pretty much a creative wasteland.

Davis has a little more flair, acceleration and creativity in his touches than JWP does though.

At the moment he is a much better player.

He's still only 21, and he's still developing. Can't understand why so many on here are determined to run him down.

And a few months ago it was he is only 20, and before only 19. How long can age be used as an excuse for his poor displays?

I don't like bashing any of our players because at the end of the day it isn't his fault he is picked to play.

However for a player who has nearly 100 pl games under his belt he really has had no outstanding games. No games where he has had an influence to the point where you think if he was not playing we could have really of done with this guys attributes on the pitch.

Think of the other youngsters that came through, Bale, Walcott, Ox, Shaw etc all these players had something about them. They might have a bad game but then they would have a huge game where they stood out for playing so well.

Will JWP have that moment? I don't think so. The problem is he lacks one outstanding attribute. Some will mention he is awesome at freekicks/corners but the reality is he does the same with them that 99% of every other player does. Kick it into the group of players in the box.

There is zero variation to them. Sometimes you have to try something different. Tadic has now started to take over from him for the freekicks and corners and he showed what I mean by variation in the citeh game. Rather then punt the free kick into the box he took a slide pass down the wing to Mane and we scored. Tadic had a big influence on the game when he came on and that is down to his ability not his age.

JWP needs to go out on loan and find the position that he is best at. He isn't a defensive midfielder, he isn't a tricky midfielder who uses skill to pass people. He isn't a winger. I have no idea what he is.

Lucky to have him.

Agreed but the young David Beckham only got good reviews when he scored spectacular goals, in between he was often dross, and in his first 20 or so England games he was a total waste of space. Agreed also that JWP is lacking "something" in his game....now it's upto him to find it.

 

maybe like Steven Davis, if he scores a few goals....people will get off his back and stop criticising him. Must be stressful to go through games without scoring.

What a ridiculous comparison..Beckham was the best passer in the world for 10 years.. Ward-Prowse is not even an EPL level player.

I still think it's him or Davis. Davis has been better this season, but his finishing is still frustrating and I don't rate his set pieces at all. But with Davis around and starting 30+ a season, JWP isn't going to flourish.

Except that Davis is the 1st name on the team sheet every week...how many caps has he got.. He is the only link between midfield and attack that we have.

Except that Davis is the 1st name on the team sheet every week...how many caps has he got.. He is the only link between midfield and attack that we have.

Nigh on 80 but what has that got to do with JWPs indifferent qualities. Both started yesterday I think.

Lucky to have him.

A club that has had le tissier, channon, shearer, Wallace, Paine, Williams, wright, I would say he is much more lucky to be here!

JWP definitely has decent technique, and I do think that the pace and trajectory of his free kicks are very good compared to both Tadic and Davis. However, at the moment he is completely lacking in the confidence-verging-on-arrogance that separates good players from mediocre. I wonder if this is basically the down-side of his boy-scout reputation - sure, he gets fewer negative headlines that the likes of Grealish and Barkley, but he also never seems to exhibit any of their will to impose themselves on the game. To actually utilise technique and vision, you need to believe that there's no one else more capable than you of making a difference - until he decides that that's the case, he'll continue to play safe passes, handing over responsibility to others.

A club that has had le tissier, channon, shearer, Wallace, Paine, Williams, wright, I would say he is much more lucky to be here!

But none of know how those idols would have performed in today's game, Shearer is the only one you can have any idea about.

How would Channon have fayred against a defence comprised of 4 WC defenders and not 2 barrow boys and a barman...no-one knows. You can only compare JWP to

the modern game. Even now we see yesterday's top men being surpassed by the skills and speed of new arrivals.

What does "his ongoing commitment" mean?

No-one has (seriously) come in and offered to take him off our hands.

But none of know how those idols would have performed in today's game, Shearer is the only one you can have any idea about.

How would Channon have fayred against a defence comprised of 4 WC defenders and not 2 barrow boys and a barman...no-one knows. You can only compare JWP to

the modern game. Even now we see yesterday's top men being surpassed by the skills and speed of new arrivals.

Oh come on they would have adjusted. They were special individuals. Jwp is clearly not. Anyway they were good in their time and all had at least one outstanding quality, jwp hasn't.

I think the complete opposite is true . Because of our previous sucsessful academy players people are desperate for him to be next off the production line . It's a victory for hope over reality. The press want to write " another one" from saints academy, the club obviously want it and supporters want it , but it's really not going to happen . Had we signed him from abroad he'd be called a waste of money .

 

When are we going to start seeing performances that live up to the hype , because he's been around the first team 4 years and has yet to produce anything that convinces me he's anything other than Andrew Surman mk2 ?

I recall Ollie Lancashire being described as "the next one off the conveyor belt":lol: (It was in a respected paper - can't remember which - not digging at anyone on here).

He takes a good corner, he takes a good free kick, he's the best technical player at the club.......

'that's all I hear about him, it's all possibly true but in the hustle and bustle of a match he does nothing of any meaning.

sorry but I don't see very much in him at all I'm afraid.

Yup, the unfortunate truth of the matter is that neither of them are capable of putting in dominant attacking CM performances. They are both just conservative, ball-preserving midfielders, with Davis' better physicality and tenacity giving him the starting edge over JWP's superior dead balls most of the time. In recent weeks Clasie has shown signs that he might be capable of playing incisive passes from a central position, but until he recovered from his injury, the middle of the park was pretty much a creative wasteland.

Koeman doesn't want incisive passing through the middle. Our whole game is set up to get the ball out wide and bang crosses into the box for the big man to either score or knock down for Mane of Davis to get on to.

No-one has (seriously) come in and offered to take him off our hands.

I was told that around the time Lallana etc were going, his agent had a meeting with Man City when they were trying to increase their home grown quota. The offer apparently was very good but he wasn't going to play much if at all so JWP refused it.

I think hes a good player when played in the middle of midfield alongside Wanyama in a game we should be controlling. He knocks the ball around perfectly fine, offers us something that we dont have when he's not on the pitch, and that's a decent delivery.

However against the bigger teams, or when he needs to actually create something in the no10 position, he doesn't have the ability to create something out of nothing which is why hes struggling IMO.

Also think he is fine playing RM with a RB (Cedric) who likes to run past and bomb on, we are too limited if he plays right with Yoshi in behind.

Will be a Saints legend one day.