Saints are 'increasingly hopeful' on Victor Wanyana signing a new deal

Comes from the well-informed Jeremy Wilson at The Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/12106580/Arsenal-transfer-news-Southampton-hopeful-Victor-Wanyama-will-sign-new-contract.html

Summary (since the article covers more than just Wanyama):

Club increasingly hopeful they can get Wanyama to sign a new deal, talks over a new contract are happening

Mane will be sold if a good offer comes in during Summer

Pelle may also be allowed to go in the Summer, club are frustrated about his drop in form before knee injury and as such don't want to talk to him about a new deal untl the Summer.

Club won't sell Long as he offers something different up front to Austin and Pelle.

Koeman's contract unlikely to be discussed until the summer, though they are confident he won't ask to leave this summer.

There is an increased focus on signing under 18s and under 21s due to the lack of youth players progressing to the first team.

The Board and Koeman are aiming at finishing 7th or higher.

Didn't we have similar stories about Clyne last year?

Clyne.

I'd be amazed if this is true, purely because of how little he looks like he cares.

Didn't we have similar stories about Clyne last year?

My first thought as well.

Didn't we have similar stories about Clyne last year?

Yeah. Les Reed was even saying it himself as opposed to merely using club friendly journos like Jeremy Wilson as mouthpieces.

Interesting article.

Sounds like a realisation that the conveyor belt of talent is and has slowed.

With our rep we should be able to bring in some good talent from other clubs at an U16/18 level.

Pelle is now dispenable, certainly in the summer and if we could resign Wanyama then its a no brainer and would pretty much be the first PL signing to resign despite other (rumoured) interest.

I'm not as bothered as some on whether Wanyama stays especially if we can get around £20m for him. I think he is excellent when the team are mainly in control of the game (like Saturday) and when the pace of the opponents is not overly quick, and also when they are more runners with the ball than quick passers. When teams play quickly through midfield (like Watford) he gets turned more and caught out of position more and when he is running back towards our goal I think he is far more liable to errors. Thats not to say he is poor but he has this weakness. Against teams like Watford our high energy midfielders like Clasie and Romeu are far more suitable and I think we will come up against more of these types of teams especially if we get back into Europe. I hope he stays because like Saturday he can control a game but £20m would be a good fee and I'm sure we would find a younger model and a cheaper model!

Clyne's new contract was being touted around to try and maintain some value to his out of contract status.

Not sure we would get anywhere near £20m.

The fee we got for Clyne is indicative of the effect of having a year left on your contract and Wanyama would be the same.

Retaining your best and most valuable players where possible is a no brainer and Wanyama is our best defensive midfielder by a distance.

Wanyama is running out of options as arsenal have no interest and Spurs also look like they have moved on.

Not sure we would get anywhere near £20m.

 

The fee we got for Clyne is indicative of the effect of having a year left on your contract and Wanyama would be the same.

 

Retaining your best and most valuable players where possible is a no brainer and Wanyama is our best defensive midfielder by a distance.

No he is not.

I'd be very surprised if wanyama signed a new deal, unless it has some sort of release clause.

Personally I'd be happier in news that Bertrand/Forster extending their deals.

Not sure I particularly agree with notion of signing 18/21 year olds from elsewhere rather than giving our own academy players at least some opportunities in the first team. Target is a clear example how game time in the prem can be of benefit. The likes of Stephens/reed/seater/McCarthy need to be given that before being discarded on the scrap heap whilst the club scrambles around to pick up scraps of u18/u21 not hoovered up by bigger sides.

It would be good to keep Wanyama, but I don't think it's the end of the world if he goes. Pelle is probably off in the summer back to Italy - would be interesting to see who we replace him with. Mane is the one who probably will be off as well but will actually be hard to replace - getting some form of European football would certainly help with this.

. Forster - Gazza - (X)

Cedric (X) - VVD - Fonte - Yoshida - Gardos - Bertrand Targett

. JWP - Clasie - Romeu - Reed?

. Davis - Juanmi

Long - JRod Austin (X) Tadic (X)

Striker, AMC, Winger - potentially a young keeper, right back & Centre Mid.

Pelle better be careful. He is fast becoming the new whipping post.

Interesting read, but I thought Mané's contract was up in 2018 not 2017?

No he is not.

Not our best defensive midfielder?

That can basically be interpreted as the club accepting Wanyama is off and trying to protect his value through the media.

Interesting snippet at the end of that article - guess we may well see some money spent on the Academy soon then.

Yeah won't hold my breath Clyne, Poch and Toby were all people the club were hopeful would sign a contract and then didn't.

I certainly echo everyone who said it reminds them of the Clyne scenario.

I'll believe it if I see it on the OS or I see a thumbs-up from K.Billy. No when else.

On a side-note to the other piece of note in the article re: recruitment of U21's : Demarai Gray is 19, Saints

I certainly echo everyone who said it reminds them of the Clyne scenario.

 

I'll believe it if I see it on the OS or I see a thumbs-up from K.Billy. No when else.

 

On a side-note to the other piece of note in the article re: recruitment of U21's : Demarai Gray is 19, Saints

TBF I think I remember even K,Billy gave us the thumbs up on the Clyne thing. Sounds like whatever happened there was a very quick turn around.

TBF I think I remember even K,Billy gave us the thumbs up on the Clyne thing. Sounds like whatever happened there was a very quick turn around.

Yeh additional 20k a week so I believe

TBF I think I remember even K,Billy gave us the thumbs up on the Clyne thing. Sounds like whatever happened there was a very quick turn around.

Doh, you remember correctly. Wasn't there a change of agent or something similar?

Was that before Guan congratulated him on being promoted to "super ITK" though?!

Weren't we linked to Mario Suarez in the summer or was that a dream? HCDAJFU but slightly above our pay grade unfortunately me thinks

That can basically be interpreted as the club accepting Wanyama is off and trying to protect his value through the media.

 

Interesting snippet at the end of that article - guess we may well see some money spent on the Academy soon then.

Yep. A bit like the Clyne stories last year, I'm happy to accept this as a leak just to counter accusations from the fans that we're not trying to keep him.

I am sure we are trying to keep him of course, and his agent may also now be realising that the offers from CL clubs are not as concrete as he once thought - so it may still be the case that our extension offer is the best he can do.

After all, Victor is a good player but he's not a genuine Champions League level elite performer like what Winston Reid is.

There is an increased focus on signing under 18s and under 21s due to the lack of youth players progressing to the first team.

Is this basically confirmation that the club agree with Ronald's assessment?

Is this basically confirmation that the club agree with Ronald's assessment?

Looks that way

Yep. A bit like the Clyne stories last year, I'm happy to accept this as a leak just to counter accusations from the fans that we're not trying to keep him.

 

I am sure we are trying to keep him of course, and his agent may also now be realising that the offers from CL clubs are not as concrete as he once thought - so it may still be the case that our extension offer is the best he can do.

 

After all, Victor is a good player but he's not a genuine Champions League level elite performer like what Winston Reid is.

Yep I agree. Big Vic can probably get himself a better deal at a bigger club. Not sure how much he would play there though - or if that really matters to him. I'm quite pragmatic about him moving on - would love it if he stayed and if he was motivated but he's had too many poor games for me to lose any sleep over replacing him. I also think he is really replaceable with his attributes as well. If he did move on it would probably be for £15m or so factoring in his contract and increased TV money etc. and that would be ok - basically means we had three years service out of him and made a profit on his move. It would be an all round success.

Is this basically confirmation that the club agree with Ronald's assessment?

For which many slated him on here. Shows the strength of having people at the club that aren't just yes men.

.

Personally I'd be happier in news that Bertrand/Forster extending their deal

s.

Could not agree more. Mane caught the eye with his goals, but if I was a manager of Chelsea, City, United, Liverpool or Arsenal, Bertrand is the one guy at Saints that I'd be signing in the summer. Everyone of those would strengthen their first team or squad with him in it.

 

Not sure I particularly agree with notion of signing 18/21 year olds from elsewhere rather than giving our own academy players at least some opportunities in the first team. Target is a clear example how game time in the prem can be of benefit. The likes of Stephens/reed/seater/McCarthy need to be given that before being discarded on the scrap heap whilst the club scrambles around to pick up scraps of u18/u21 not hoovered up by bigger sides.

Acquiring young talent to bolster our youth team has worked in the past. Lallana, Best, Blackstock, McGoldrick, Jones all bought in. No reason why we need to pick around for scraps. We have something to offer top young players. A reputation for playing them for starters.

The higher up the pyramid we are, the less likely we are to get youth team players coming through that are good enough to play at that level. This is why Chelsea have struggled. They want a top 10 player in the world in every position, not just a solid pro. Not easy to spot those. Our target is slightly lower, but still requires a top top player. We have been fortune to land several of the best young players ever when they were very young, but that's not normal. Stealing them for other clubs when they are a few years older, if agreeable to all parties, is a good idea.

Not that fussed about keeping him if he keeps playing like he has been.

Wanyama isn't good enough or consistent enough for a CL team so he'll either have to stay with us or sit on someone's bench.

We really need to get Bertrand signed. Hopefully he'll remember his time at a big club and how it can go wrong.

Don't really want anyone to leave.

We need two players for every position, so want Pelle and Austin to compete for the 1 up top in a 4-2-3-1.

Still need Mane and Long in the second row, and still need Vic in the 3rd row back. Not seeing much from Clasie yet to nail down the position in DM, so (1) Vic (2) Romeu, (3) Clasie and (4) signing. Come back Jack Cork!

We should have pushed a Dembele/Wanyama swap deal last summer. Maybe if there hadn't been such uproar the previous summer at the numbers going out the board might have considered it, but no way were they going to allow similar numbers going out and face the rathe of the fans.

Personally I don't think there is a cat in hells chance of Arsenal signing him. He can't pass the ball,so that counts him out right there. Spurs have moved on. He's not good enough for City or Man U. He's not a Liverpool type player, so he's running out of options.

So Koeman, Mane, Pelle and Mane out this summer.

So Koeman, Mane, Pelle and Mane out this summer.

Koeman?

And #doublemeltdown if Mane leaves twice.

So Koeman, Mane, Pelle and Mane out this summer.

Would be quite some going by the board to sell Mane twice.

Would be quite some going by the board to sell Mane twice.

Uncle Les drives a hard bargain

So Koeman, Mane, Pelle and Mane out this summer.

Brilliant business letting Mane go twice for £30M a pop. (winky emoji)

Where does this notion come from when there are loads of very average DMs playing for CL teams?

 

Why the obsession on what he can't do when he's a very good defensive player?

Just watching him week in week out. My opinion is that he's not good enough for the top teams. Plus he's a liability with yellow/red cards. He's too slow on the ball for them. Hes not exactly mobile enough so needs Schneiderlin next to him. He's awful in the air. He's too inconsistent defensively and his pass is his huge weakness. Put that all together and I think it's too much of a compromise for a top club. He is a good mid table PL player. Us, Everton, Stoke, West Ham type clubs. Not Champions League.

Not yet anyway, I suppose he's still relatively young. But at the moment I think he's at his level.

I'd be very surprised if wanyama signed a new deal, unless it has some sort of release clause.

Personally I'd be happier in news that Bertrand/Forster extending their deals.

 

 

Not sure I particularly agree with notion of signing 18/21 year olds from elsewhere rather than giving our own academy players at least some opportunities in the first team. Target is a clear example how game time in the prem can be of benefit. The likes of Stephens/reed/seater/McCarthy need to be given that before being discarded on the scrap heap whilst the club scrambles around to pick up scraps of u18/u21 not hoovered up by bigger sides.

I think the idea would be that we are one of the bigger sides doing the hovering. Certainly, a high quality 19 year old with with a lower league English club is more likely to believe he can get a game with us that with Chelsea, Man City, or Man U. And for young players who are not automatically going to start, our salaries are probably pretty close to competitive with the bigger clubs.

Interesting read, but I thought Mané's contract was up in 2018 not 2017?

That was my understanding as well and it is what it says in this post:

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?45712-Keeping-track-of-the-contracts

Just watching him week in week out. My opinion is that he's not good enough for the top teams. Plus he's a liability with yellow/red cards. He's too slow on the ball for them. Hes not exactly mobile enough so needs Schneiderlin next to him. He's awful in the air. He's too inconsistent defensively and his pass is his huge weakness. Put that all together and I think it's too much of a compromise for a top club. He is a good mid table PL player. Us, Everton, Stoke, West Ham type clubs. Not Champions League.

 

Not yet anyway, I suppose he's still relatively young. But at the moment I think he's at his level.

I really have trouble envisioning him at Arsenal with his passing skills. On the other hand, he would improve Man U by putting him back next to Schneiderlin--especially if Carrick and schweinsteiger are going to have trouble staying healthy.

Interesting read, but I thought Mané's contract was up in 2018 not 2017?

Yep, he signed a 4-year deal when he joined in September 2014, so he's contracted until 2018.

He says Wanyama and Mane are both out of contract in 2017 but Mane has a contract till 2018

Not sure we would get anywhere near £20m.

 

The fee we got for Clyne is indicative of the effect of having a year left on your contract and Wanyama would be the same.

 

Retaining your best and most valuable players where possible is a no brainer and Wanyama is our best defensive midfielder by a distance.

Seeing the performance Romeu put in against Watford I reckon he can be just as good defensively but more importantly much quicker and more incisive on the ball

If the Academy is not so good, is it because Dodd and Williams were kicked out? and why were they kicked out?

If the Academy is not so good, is it because Dodd and Williams were kicked out? and why were they kicked out?

why is it because dodd and williams are no longer there? surely its about having the right talent coming through

Acquiring young talent to bolster our youth team has worked in the past. Lallana, Best, Blackstock, McGoldrick, Jones all bought in. No reason why we need to pick around for scraps. We have something to offer top young players. A reputation for playing them for starters.

 

The higher up the pyramid we are, the less likely we are to get youth team players coming through that are good enough to play at that level. This is why Chelsea have struggled. They want a top 10 player in the world in every position, not just a solid pro. Not easy to spot those. Our target is slightly lower, but still requires a top top player. We have been fortune to land several of the best young players ever when they were very young, but that's not normal. Stealing them for other clubs when they are a few years older, if agreeable to all parties, is a good idea.

The older the player is and higher profile they are the less likely we are to be able to compete with the likes of Spurs, Liverpool etc. that seems different to me than picking the choice players from elsewhere at a younger age when they are still much rawer prospect. our advantage has been our willingness to give academy prospects opportunities if that goes why not sign for the likes of chelsea with better status and better loan contacts.

If the Academy is not so good, is it because Dodd and Williams were kicked out? and why were they kicked out?

There will always be periods when we aren't bringing through as many players at one time. We have been spoiled by having a couple of amazing Academy groups but no club has a consistent conveyer belt of talent churning out players capable of competing at the top level every season.