PL clubs turn down £30 away ticket cap

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-3432561/Premier-League-clubs-make-8bn-TV-rights-big-boys-vote-proposal-cap-away-tickets-30.html

Thought there should be something on this. Ridiculous considering the new tv deal. No idea what could be done to change it. People will say it's about demand and if you don't like it don't go, but there's always going to be someone else with more money who can afford it and go instead.

Nothing stopping club's from doing their own thing like Stoke City. They have frozen early bird season card prices since promotion in 2008 and last 3 seasons offered free coach travel to all away games.

Nothing stopping club's from doing their own thing like Stoke City. They have frozen early bird season card prices since promotion in 2008 and last 3 seasons offered free coach travel to all away games.

They do free tickets in the local paper too and regular auto graph signings down by the training ground, only mainly the local school's that get to go to the training ground though, not sure if saints do that not lived down there for near 15 years now

The TV money going up will only mean player prices and wages will just increase!

I think Whinging Wenger came out and said that there wouldn't be price drop as the money would go to spend on players as quoted below.....

“We are a company who, on one side [the fans], want you to buy more players. What will happen is the prices of the players will go up and you will need this supplement of money coming in to buy new players. I believe that the pressure on spending the money will become bigger and you cannot necessarily distribute the money to other people. What we do, we stabilise our prices to give access to other players and we have stabilised now for many years.”

So I guess if the clubs said, hang on, let's all lower prices rather than spend on players, then everyone would be in the same boat. As a supporter of many years (ie pre Sky/PL) to me it is not important to have all the world's best players here earning £300k+ a week. Far more important to me is to have a good level where EVERYONE can compete with each other.

I think Whinging Wenger came out and said that there wouldn't be price drop as the money would go to spend on players as quoted below.....

 

“We are a company who, on one side [the fans], want you to buy more players. What will happen is the prices of the players will go up and you will need this supplement of money coming in to buy new players. I believe that the pressure on spending the money will become bigger and you cannot necessarily distribute the money to other people. What we do, we stabilise our prices to give access to other players and we have stabilised now for many years.”

 

So I guess if the clubs said, hang on, let's all lower prices rather than spend on players, then everyone would be in the same boat. As a supporter of many years (ie pre Sky/PL) to me it is not important to have all the world's best players here earning £300k+ a week. Far more important to me is to have a good level where EVERYONE can compete with each other.

If Saints capped away tickets at £30 and subsidised the extra I can't see how that would affect the finances enough to impact at all on ability to bring in and pay for players. It would be a drop in the ocean. It's pure greed.

Aware fully that this is just the idealist me speaking but....

Wenger has said that the money will be used on player wages/transfers as the tv deal will push up prices. However that is total ball-arks.... The only league getting this deal is the premier league. Therefore if all clubs turn around and agree to cut their ticket prices by the same percentage then all teams take the same hit to "spending power" (using some of the tv money to look after their fans).

This in turn means that their is less money being used to push up prices for wages and transfers.

Anything less than this being agree and really all football fans should unite and boycott the games indefinitely as we really are being taken for a ride. Even with the above measure and a cut of say 25% for all teams the new tv deal would still represent and increase in financial muscle for the prem vs any other competitive league (china doesn't count)...

It is pure greed. You've got people like Arsene Wenger saying the new TV megabucks will be needed to go towards higher transfer fees and wages so the Premier League doesn't fall behind new cash rich clubs in China

I couldn't give a f&ck if China started buying up the top talent we'd still have our league here and they'd be welcome to the mercenaries. I'd much rather football clubs remained accessible to the working man who passionately supports his team home and away rather than a play thing for billionaire oligarchs who spend millions of their fortunes plus TV money and gate receipts lining the pockets of players and unscrupulous agents.

People say just don't go but it's not as easy as that, before we walk away and stop going to matches at least make our voices heard through actions such as the FSF campaign.

Thankfully we don't sell out every game so board can't be complacent and must guard against hikes.....I naively hope anyway.. Liverpool tickets in demand so they can. Apparently a walk out at 77 mins in game against Sunderland. Will help if they are 3-0 down I'm sure

What gets me is the goodwill and value of ' brand' can increase without a huge dent in finances if they make gestures towards fans rather than p1ssing them off.

Empty seats will look terrible on tv. It'll damage the Premier League "brand". That's literally the only way to do something about it.

Empty seats will look terrible on tv. It'll damage the Premier League "brand". That's literally the only way to do something about it.

I agree. I've set a limit of what I am prepared to pay for an away ticket this season for the first time ever. Anything more than around £35 and I won't go. Have missed out on some great away games but I'm standing firm - we're now entering a phase were ticket money is shrinking in terms of overall income for clubs and its time for a change.

I agree. I've set a limit of what I am prepared to pay for an away ticket this season for the first time ever. Anything more than around £35 and I won't go. Have missed out on some great away games but I'm standing firm - we're now entering a phase were ticket money is shrinking in terms of overall income for clubs and its time for a change.

But there's still people who will fill your place so in terms of a 'protest' it won't work. And that's why our away support is getting worse because people are priced out. Our away ends are now full of people who CAN afford it and it seems more like the crowd you'd get at the theatre than in an away end at football.

It won't be long before premier league grounds are pretty much sterile environments and then the TV product will diminish because there will be little atmosphere to keep it as an exciting spectacle. It's getting bad enough already but the higher the ticket price, the less likely it is for younger (note likely to be vocal) fans come and the premier league deals may begin to drop as the popularity will decrease globally when the matches are a sanitised product. I don't blame clubs like saints but those at the top who feed the media excitement over bigger deals. The rich may get richer but the product of live sport withough a decent atmosphere will not be as appealing and a result of keeping a richer mix of fan types.

Bit of a disgrace that the club are not willing or are forces league wide to cap ticket prices, given the TV deal.

What ever you think about wenger, he is right on this issue. I doubt he sets the ticket prices

It is pure greed. You've got people like Arsene Wenger saying the new TV megabucks will be needed to go towards higher transfer fees and wages so the Premier League doesn't fall behind new cash rich clubs in China

I couldn't give a f&ck if China started buying up the top talent we'd still have our league here and they'd be welcome to the mercenaries. I'd much rather football clubs remained accessible to the working man who passionately supports his team home and away rather than a play thing for billionaire oligarchs who spend millions of their fortunes plus TV money and gate receipts lining the pockets of players and unscrupulous agents.

People say just don't go but it's not as easy as that, before we walk away and stop going to matches at least make our voices heard through actions such as the FSF campaign.

Exactly this. If Wenger and all the other cash-rich plebs f**ked off to China, we'd still have a league to watch that would not be harmed and you never know, it might be more fun again.

I guess clubs, look it like this....take Saints for example. 19 league games, say 30,000 per game - if you were to knock off £10 per ticket (which would be nice), then that comes to £5.7m. Man Utd do it with their 75k, and that would be £14.25m. It's not insubstantial, but really, I agree with others that it is nothing short of greed. I think most/all fans feel that they are used and abused. Whether it is clubs and ticket prices, or TV schedules, we really are only there to give a bit of atmosphere to the cameras and paying handsomely for that.

I also don't buy Wenger's argument that increased cost of players and wages. FFS, there really is no need for them all to earn £5m a year.

I think Whinging Wenger came out and said that there wouldn't be price drop as the money would go to spend on players as quoted below.....

 

“We are a company who, on one side [the fans], want you to buy more players. What will happen is the prices of the players will go up and you will need this supplement of money coming in to buy new players. I believe that the pressure on spending the money will become bigger and you cannot necessarily distribute the money to other people. What we do, we stabilise our prices to give access to other players and we have stabilised now for many years.”

 

So I guess if the clubs said, hang on, let's all lower prices rather than spend on players, then everyone would be in the same boat. As a supporter of many years (ie pre Sky/PL) to me it is not important to have all the world's best players here earning £300k+ a week. Far more important to me is to have a good level where EVERYONE can compete with each other.

Unfortunately the Premier League don't give a sh11t what fans think, especially those with that opinion. Those big name, big money players are part of what makes the Premier League popular abroad, and the only way that remains the case is by Prem clubs being able to pay bigger wages - hence the panic over Texeira and others choosing China.

The fact remains that ticket prices are negligible compared to other revenue streams and they could still drop ticket prices AND still fork out millions in wages, but the clubs just aren't going to do that until they're made to by either the government or the Premier League (who won't without self-interest).

Empty seats will look terrible on tv. It'll damage the Premier League "brand". That's literally the only way to do something about it.

If that was the case they'd have had us move the segregation behind the goal and insisted we sold the front rows before the back ones already, because anything under capacity and St Mary's looks half full on tv due to people not buying Northam Blocks 43/44 and the front couple of rows of Itchen 1-4.

Aware fully that this is just the idealist me speaking but....

 

Wenger has said that the money will be used on player wages/transfers as the tv deal will push up prices. However that is total ball-arks.... The only league getting this deal is the premier league. Therefore if all clubs turn around and agree to cut their ticket prices by the same percentage then all teams take the same hit to "spending power" (using some of the tv money to look after their fans).

 

This in turn means that their is less money being used to push up prices for wages and transfers.

 

Anything less than this being agree and really all football fans should unite and boycott the games indefinitely as we really are being taken for a ride. Even with the above measure and a cut of say 25% for all teams the new tv deal would still represent and increase in financial muscle for the prem vs any other competitive league (china doesn't count)...

You've missed the point. The wages will go up because better players will come to the Prem for the money rather than playing at big clubs elsewhere. That will be possible because the FFP limits will all go up for each club in line with the increased income across the board - and then the big players already at the clubs will get rises too, because that's what always happens when people re-evaluate their value. What Wenger said about China is that it will further increase the transfer and wage inflation we always see from more money being in the game, rather than "we have to outspend them".

The clubs won't come to an agreement on ticket prices because the amount more they get will depend on league position as well as fixed fees, so there's no way of knowing exactly how much more they'll get, or what percentage cut they should make - and there's no way the top clubs will agree to lose, say, £50m when Bournemouth only lose £5m, or whatever.

As for boycotts, yeah, sure. In the incredibly unlikely event people actually stand outside and protest rather than the short-term knee-jerkism football fans are known for, no-one would report it for fear of missing out on the cash cow in the future, and nothing would happen as a result anyway.

Besides, it's also absolutely in their interests to make football a thing for the people who have the most money to spend on it, and the demographics also suggest family-friendly, middle-class people are way less hassle in terms of policing costs too.

Simple economics. The complaints being led by the ever-persecuted scousers despite the fact that 2/3rds of their ticket prices have frozen or reduced can't be helping matters much either.

I guess clubs, look it like this....take Saints for example. 19 league games, say 30,000 per game - if you were to knock off £10 per ticket (which would be nice), then that comes to £5.7m. Man Utd do it with their 75k, and that would be £14.25m. It's not insubstantial, but really, I agree with others that it is nothing short of greed. I think most/all fans feel that they are used and abused. Whether it is clubs and ticket prices, or TV schedules, we really are only there to give a bit of atmosphere to the cameras and paying handsomely for that.

 

I also don't buy Wenger's argument that increased cost of players and wages. FFS, there really is no need for them all to earn £5m a year.

There are actual Saints and Man U matchday revenue figures on this thread from 2014 already, you know!

But there's still people who will fill your place so in terms of a 'protest' it won't work. And that's why our away support is getting worse because people are priced out. Our away ends are now full of people who CAN afford it and it seems more like the crowd you'd get at the theatre than in an away end at football.

what utter ******. how does the amount of money you can afford to spend on football affect your ability to support your team.

what utter ******. how does the amount of money you can afford to spend on football affect your ability to support your team.

I assume the correlation between people on low incomes and criminal behaviour compared to other income levels is what is being implied. Along with the ones about thickoes not retaining any sense of perspective and thinking they know how to support better than anyone else.

Just speculating though. It's the flipside of the "clubs want well-behaved people with lots of disposable income to watch matches" argument. Quite why there's such a belief that people who do alright and are living comfortably aren't able to yell their support just as well as anyone else, who knows?

There are actual Saints and Man U matchday revenue figures on this thread from 2014 already, you know!

1. Are there? Can't see them, maybe you could point them out?

2. So what? If you think I'm being repetitive, is it really worth saying?

3. An awful lot has changed since 2014, so much so that those figures (where ever they may be) are a little irrelevant don't you think?

1. Are there? Can't see them, maybe you could point them out?

2. So what? If you think I'm being repetitive, is it really worth saying?

3. An awful lot has changed since 2014, so much so that those figures (where ever they may be) are a little irrelevant don't you think?

1. My mistake: it's this (similar content, same stats relevant) thread - should have said "currently on the board" or similar, as opposed to the "thread": http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?55984-It-keeps-on-getting-more-difficult#.VrVGOFiLTIU

2. I just meant that as there are actual figures, you could use those for a better illustration.

3. The figures are pretty consistent for matchday revenue in relation to total revenues, and actually not that much has changed since 2014, so no, they are absolutely relevant as an overview. Plus I just found a 2015 version which proves that. Having said that, the only stats available for match prices are complex enough to dissuade anyone from breaking them down even using estimated prices and capacities, and your point wasn't dependent on them anyway, so ok, I shall just wind my neck in here.

But anyway... I found 2015.

and

So now those stats ARE on this thread...

Ok, there are the figures. Still it doesn't make what I posted any less valid if you have 19 home league games and take £10 a ticket off. The match day revenue is a little irrelevant in this discussion save for if it would lower it by £5m odd (for us if you were to lower all tickets by £10) and that it would take it down from £18.3m to say £13.3m. But I think that the discussion, at least with most of us, is that the massive increase in TV revenue that is to come in next season would off set this very easily.

But anyway. I am not in favour of capping away tickets at £30. While I realise that there is more travelling involved, I don't see why away supporters should receive favourable terms. If you are going to cap tickets at £30, cap them all for home and away supporters.

It's supply & demand , why on earth would a business reduce prices , when people are perfectly willing to pay the higher prices . No other sector does it, why should football ? Don't give me any pony about " community assets " or other such nonsense , that ship sailed years ago .

Far from being an incentive to reduce prices the new tv deal re-enforces high prices . As the reliance on attendance money goes down the power of the stay away protest diminishes . If the away attendances start to drop off the pressure will build for less away allocations and more home fans.

Are they 'perfectly willing'? our recent attendances say otherwise which is a good thing. May not be all driven by pricing of course.

Away capping is not important either - token movement about need for atmosphere. Will always have youngsters with large disposable income wanting an away day p1ss up with mates - I know the demographic has changed a bit but deciding factor isn't if it's £30 or £40 I'm sure.

what utter ******. how does the amount of money you can afford to spend on football affect your ability to support your team.

In theory what your saying is right but sadly since being back in the PL our contingent at away games has certainly changed. In league 1 there were loads of groups of young lads and a really good atmosphere. Now it's a bunch of middle class accountants from Winchester who insist on standing in silence.

In theory what your saying is right but sadly since being back in the PL our contingent at away games has certainly changed. In league 1 there were loads of groups of young lads and a really good atmosphere. Now it's a bunch of middle class accountants from Winchester who insist on standing in silence.

Very niche. I never knew

Empty seats will look terrible on tv. It'll damage the Premier League "brand". That's literally the only way to do something about it.

Sky couldn't care less about empty seats they will just turn up the crowd mic or use a tape to provide the illusion of atmosphere all they care about is subscriber numbers and they will probably go up with less bums on seats! The fan in the ground is fast becoming an irrelevance! Just you wait for the phone app linked to the stadium pa so you can click to boost the volume from the comfort of your own sofa!

In theory what your saying is right but sadly since being back in the PL our contingent at away games has certainly changed. In league 1 there were loads of groups of young lads and a really good atmosphere. Now it's a bunch of middle class accountants from Winchester who insist on standing in silence.

Our away following has always been funny the 'lads' in the league one days were a nightmare hobby little idiots who spent the whol game 'giving it large' to the home section! I've seen us away in every league and have always preferred to sit in my seat and watch the game sorry if my lack of 'singing' and 'laddish' behaviour offends you but I'm not an accountant and I was born in Manchester!

Interesting..... 7 clubs voted against the cap, and the rest might do it with reciprocal schemes with the clubs doing the £30 cap.

The 7 greedy ****ers..... Arsenal, Man U/C, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool and West Ham.

The worst offender by far (if you can rank one greed as being worse than another) is West Ham given their subsidised stadium. But having said that, the others are hardly better given the amount of money they make.

Just listening to talksport and they just said not hard to endear yourself to your fans, like Swansea and West Ham with their season ticket prices. Clear that with West Ham they have no idea what they are talking about and WHU being one of the 7, nor the reason for some cheap season tickets.

It's supply & demand , why on earth would a business reduce prices , when people are perfectly willing to pay the higher prices . No other sector does it, why should football ? Don't give me any pony about " community assets " or other such nonsense , that ship sailed years ago .

 

Far from being an incentive to reduce prices the new tv deal re-enforces high prices . As the reliance on attendance money goes down the power of the stay away protest diminishes . If the away attendances start to drop off the pressure will build for less away allocations and more home fans.

The powers that be have probably been watching games from La Liga where away fans are minimal if not non existent in most matches, yet don't seem to have any worse an atmosphere than most PL games.

On a similar thread on here a couple of years back, someone asked what what would stop me going to football and I said I couldn't see it happening. It's what I do on a Saturday (...Sunday, Monday, etc., etc.) and have done since the early 70s.

But this has really gripped my wotsnames, the pure greed of this stinks. The obscene amount of money already in the game and the colossal figures about to arrive, this was an opportunity for clubs to do the right thing. How could they not agree to this, if every club thought of their own travelling fans and agreed on £30 max (f*ck, I agreed 20s-plenty for aways) then no one had an advantage over the other, and the cost is peanuts in the bigger picture. Just helping loyal fans with the vast expense and effort of travelling around this country.

What your 'average' PL player earns in a WEEK is 2 or 3 times most of us earn in a YEAR...these obscenely overpaid players don't need any more money. Football dies a little more for me today, pure greed.

The powers that be have probably been watching games from La Liga where away fans are minimal if not non existent in most matches, yet don't seem to have any worse an atmosphere than most PL games.

It's very different here, it's away fans more so than home fans that produce the atmosphere in English grounds. We see it at St Mary's, small away following affects how the home fans respond.

Around Europe it's all about the noise and spectacle the 'Ultras' put up at their home stadiums, really a show. Whether the game is sh*t or not, these fans groups are just intent on keeping the show going. Different world.

At least the scousers are trying to do something about it ..... Everyone else just moans about it but still turn up anyway ..... & the Premiership clubs know it !!!

At least the scousers are trying to do something about it ..... Everyone else just moans about it but still turn up anyway ..... & the Premiership clubs know it !!!

Plenty of clubs have tried different things over the years. By Liverpool being Liverpool they get a lot more attention for it.

On a similar thread on here a couple of years back, someone asked what what would stop me going to football and I said I couldn't see it happening. It's what I do on a Saturday (...Sunday, Monday, etc., etc.) and have done since the early 70s.

 

But this has really gripped my wotsnames, the pure greed of this stinks. The obscene amount of money already in the game and the colossal figures about to arrive, this was an opportunity for clubs to do the right thing. How could they not agree to this, if every club thought of their own travelling fans and agreed on £30 max (f*ck, I agreed 20s-plenty for aways) then no one had an advantage over the other, and the cost is peanuts in the bigger picture. Just helping loyal fans with the vast expense and effort of travelling around this country.

 

What your 'average' PL player earns in a WEEK is 2 or 3 times most of us earn in a YEAR...these obscenely overpaid players don't need any more money. Football dies a little more for me today, pure greed.

I like this post.

In theory what your saying is right but sadly since being back in the PL our contingent at away games has certainly changed. In league 1 there were loads of groups of young lads and a really good atmosphere. Now it's a bunch of middle class accountants from Winchester who insist on standing in silence.

I'm no accountant, but I did play cricket for Winchester. Does that count?

It's very different here, it's away fans more so than home fans that produce the atmosphere in English grounds. We see it at St Mary's, small away following affects how the home fans respond.

 

Around Europe it's all about the noise and spectacle the 'Ultras' put up at their home stadiums, really a show. Whether the game is sh*t or not, these fans groups are just intent on keeping the show going. Different world.

Don't get me wrong, I quite agree with that. What I meant was the people that make these decisions probably only ever attend games in the best best seats and/or executive boxes and probably as neutrals. I'm betting they are aware of the atmosphere as background noise but have no perception of who is creating it or how. They've probably witnessed La Liga and Seria A games with 99% home support and think it could be replicated here. You're right, it wouldn't work here (maybe Palace and Middlesbrough would give it a go), the crowd culture is still significantly different here (if not as much as it used to be)

Interesting..... 7 clubs voted against the cap, and the rest might do it with reciprocal schemes with the clubs doing the £30 cap.

 

The 7 greedy ****ers..... Arsenal, Man U/C, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool and West Ham.

 

The worst offender by far (if you can rank one greed as being worse than another) is West Ham given their subsidised stadium. But having said that, the others are hardly better given the amount of money they make.

 

Just listening to talksport and they just said not hard to endear yourself to your fans, like Swansea and West Ham with their season ticket prices. Clear that with West Ham they have no idea what they are talking about and WHU being one of the 7, nor the reason for some cheap season tickets.

Kind of supports the argument that the clubs making the most money from attendances are the ones not keen to restrict prices as they're the ones who'd lose the most. Except West Ham, who presumably plan on putting the away fans in the most expensive part of the Olympic Stadium.

Kind of supports the argument that the clubs making the most money from attendances are the ones not keen to restrict prices as they're the ones who'd lose the most. Except West Ham, who presumably plan on putting the away fans in the most expensive part of the Olympic Stadium.

Not sure you are right there, or are you (it's late and I have celebrated our win)? Don't PL rules state 3k or 10% which ever is less has to be away allocation? So the allocation for away supporters as Old Trafford is pretty much the same as what we give Man Utd so they would only lose out if the ticket prices were vastly different, rather than basing things on the number of tickets available being any differnet. Using Utd again, are away tickets differently priced from others in the stadium?

As for West Ham, they have no excuses. They promote this £299 season ticket in a "look at us, we can do a Bundesliga" type thing (although for adults the minimum is £499). All I see that they are doing, while not wanting to help away supporters, is trying to fill the stadium at the cost of the club half a mile away which I fully expect to go out of business within a decade, or is the compensation deal really that good?

Plenty of clubs have tried different things over the years. By Liverpool being Liverpool they get a lot more attention for it.

The is almost total apathy on here about price rises and general greediness of the football company. In fact if you moan about it or takes a stand you may get laughed at or told you won't be missed etc.

Chez - apathy? Possibly, but the problem is that there is a near captive audience. If a supermarket puts prices up too much, you go to another one. If a football club does, then you either suck it up or give it up. There's no going to a competitor.

. Using Utd again, are away tickets differently priced from others in the stadium?

 

Away tickets must be priced at the same amount as the lowest single game home tickets.

Away tickets must be priced at the same amount as the lowest single game home tickets.

Isn't the rule that they have to be priced at the same price as equivalent home tickets (e.g. away seats behind the goal can't be priced as if they were half way line tickets for the home team, they have to be the price of behind the goal home tickets)? Didn't think they had to be "the cheapest".

Chez - apathy? Possibly, but the problem is that there is a near captive audience. If a supermarket puts prices up too much, you go to another one. If a football club does, then you either suck it up or give it up. There's no going to a competitor.

Every single game is on the web.

Just how much is too much? Just how big a ticket price, booking fee and now rip off postage are you willing to pay?

Not sure you are right there, or are you (it's late and I have celebrated our win)? Don't PL rules state 3k or 10% which ever is less has to be away allocation? So the allocation for away supporters as Old Trafford is pretty much the same as what we give Man Utd so they would only lose out if the ticket prices were vastly different, rather than basing things on the number of tickets available being any differnet. Using Utd again, are away tickets differently priced from others in the stadium?

Fair point that actually the likes of Man U are trying to keep away tickets as few as possible to begin with which insures them against measures like this relative to the amounts they can make from home fans. That comes back to the question I've just asked about the cost of away tickets relative to home ones.

Re: Leyton Orient, I don't really think people who are already Orient fans will be affected, and they are likely to be home on alternate weeks anyway - plus surely if the local Prem club wasn't attractive to prospective Orient fans before it still won't be now, no matter how cheap it is?

Isn't the rule that they have to be priced at the same price as equivalent home tickets (e.g. away seats behind the goal can't be priced as if they were half way line tickets for the home team, they have to be the price of behind the goal home tickets)? Didn't think they had to be "the cheapest".

Yes, the charter says prices must be the same as home fans in 'comparable accommodation', but where are away fans given better seats than home fans so it's the same thing.