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Premiership stadiums getting bigger, hope we don't get left behind


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Along with Man Unt, Man City, Arsenal and I know Newcastle and Villa are down.

West Ham new ground 50000 plus, Chelsea new ground 60000+, Spurs new ground 60000+, Liverpool increased capacity 50000+, Sunderland 40000+

Where does that leave us?

Massive revenue.

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With the WHU pricing I genuinely think we could fill 50k.

However, I think we should be expanding our stadium to showcase ourselves as a bigger club, and also, we could cheapen the tickets to let more of our fans, especially those that are priced out, attend.

 

also, in 100 years time, will we see 150/200k capacity stadiums? Or will the human race die out by then :p

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Remember when st marys was announced a couple of dell crowds not selling out & people saying that saints would never fill 30k+

 

Arsenal

Chelsea

Liverpool

Man Utd

Man City

Tottenham

Would sell out

 

Bournemouth

West Ham

Would get close

 

The others would depend on form, fixtures ect

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Remember when st marys was announced a couple of dell crowds not selling out & people saying that saints would never fill 30k+

 

Arsenal

Chelsea

Liverpool

Man Utd

Man City

Tottenham

Would sell out

 

Bournemouth

West Ham

Would get close

 

The others would depend on form, fixtures ect

 

Everton not a big enough club? :lol:

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Agree with the this, we should be follwimg theough on those plans that were revealed by Saints a couple of seasons ago. Remodelling the ground and expansion along with the conference centre. Truth is we are starting to get left behind again.

 

With the WHU pricing I genuinely think we could fill 50k.

However, I think we should be expanding our stadium to showcase ourselves as a bigger club, and also, we could cheapen the tickets to let more of our fans, especially those that are priced out, attend.

 

also, in 100 years time, will we see 150/200k capacity stadiums? Or will the human race die out by then :p

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increase the size of the ground, lower ticket prices, we still make the same the same money from the gate, but we have a bigger home support. as has been said gate money is chicken feed to clubs now, so get more people through the door and we will look like a much bigger club.

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If we can sustain these sort of finishes (or higher) for the next couple of years then inevitably we will have to increase the stadium.

 

We took over 50,000 to Wembley when we were in League 1. So undoubtedly we could fill a big stadium, but obviously question marks on 50,000 on a regular basis.

 

40,000 is not unrealistic. And we need to keep our record of having the largest stadium in the South-East of England ;)

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I don't think revenue is actually relevant to the size of the stadium anymore. TV money is king

 

In a sense, the revenue benefits of bigger stadiums shouldn't matter because they are so expensive but Financial Fair Play is king. Money spent on a new stadium does not count against Financial Fair Play limits but increased revenue from the bigger stadiums counts as increased income.

 

Here is a completely made up example:

 

current stadium 30K and sells out at 1000 pounds per seat per season so that is 30 million pounds of income.

 

build a new stadium for 1 billion pounds that holds 60K and also sells out at 1000 pounds per season. Now there is an extra 30 million pounds to spend each year under Financial Fair Play rules. I went to a mortgage calculator and assumed that the full cost of the new stadium was borrowed as a 30 year loan at 5 percent. That would cost 64.5 million pounds a year. On these assumptions, the deal makes little financial sense because it results in a financial loss of 34.5 million a year as compared to the status quo ante, but if the owner is willing to bear the loss, it provides the club with more money to spend.

 

I suspect the actual real stadium deals are more financially sound then my hypothetical one. Certainly, Arsenal, for example, gets far more than 1000 pounds per year per seat. Also, current interests rates are lower than 5 percent. I just picked round number to make my calculations easier.

Edited by Redslo
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Along with Man Unt, Man City, Arsenal and I know Newcastle and Villa are down.

West Ham new ground 50000 plus, Chelsea new ground 60000+, Spurs new ground 60000+, Liverpool increased capacity 50000+, Sunderland 40000+

Where does that leave us?

Massive revenue.

 

 

Apparantly ...Spurs " new " ground will be 61,000 capacity...... because it's 1,000 more than the Emirates....

 

If they never finish above Arsenal in the Prem. , they'll carry on crowing about the fact they have a bigger ground...:lol:

 

I'll be more impressed if they succeed in filling it for every Prem. game .

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Apparantly ...Spurs " new " ground will be 61,000 capacity...... because it's 1,000 more than the Emirates....

 

If they never finish above Arsenal in the Prem. , they'll carry on crowing about the fact they have a bigger ground...:lol:

 

I'll be more impressed if they succeed in filling it for every Prem. game .

 

they will fill it for 90% of league games, if not all of them bar 1 or 2. Even then, it will be close to capacity

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Remember when st marys was announced a couple of dell crowds not selling out & people saying that saints would never fill 30k+

 

Arsenal

Chelsea

Liverpool

Man Utd

Man City

Tottenham

Would sell out

 

Bournemouth

West Ham

Would get close

 

The others would depend on form, fixtures ect

 

This season (so far)....

attendance for Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool, Man U, Newcastle, Man City, Sunderland and Bournemouth all exceeded 31,000 (with 4 other games were over 30K)

 

It says more about the away following from teams in larger catchment areas, than getting 30,000+ loyal Saints fans for every match.

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In a sense, the revenue benefits of bigger stadiums shouldn't matter because they are so expensive but Financial Fair Play is king. Money spent on a new stadium does not count against Financial Fair Play limits but increased revenue from the bigger stadiums counts as increased income.

 

Here is a completely made up example:

 

current stadium 30K and sells out at 1000 pounds per seat per season so that is 30 million pounds of income.

 

build a new stadium for 1 billion pounds that holds 60K and also sells out at 1000 pounds per season. Now there is an extra 30 million pounds to spend each year under Financial Fair Play rules. I went to a mortgage calculator and assumed that the full cost of the new stadium was borrowed as a 30 year loan at 5 percent. That would cost 64.5 million pounds a year. On these assumptions, the deal makes little financial sense because it results in a financial loss of 34.5 million a year as compared to the status quo ante, but if the owner is willing to bear the loss, it provides the club with more money to spend.

 

I suspect the actual real stadium deals are more financially sound then my hypothetical one. Certainly, Arsenal, for example, gets far more than 1000 pounds per year per seat. Also, current interests rates are lower than 5 percent. I just picked round number to make my calculations easier.

 

The stadium has to sell out regularly, at the same or near the same as current prices, though for it to be any use under FFP? A bigger stadium with cheap tickets or only two thirds full is no use under FFP (unless I'm missing something).

 

Saints probably have a hard core of 20-25K fans who will go to games regularly the rest of the match day goers, are I suspect, just there for a day out. It could be any PL team playing as they just want to watch PL football in their half and half scarves, while taking selfies and having a match day experience. Are there enough of those sort of fans to fill up another 10K of seats at SMS? I'm not so sure.

 

I do think Stadium size is a bit of a **** swinging exercise by football fans used as one of those criteria to prove whose club is better/bigger. Personally I'd rather have a smaller stadium full of more committed fans with a better atmosphere than a big one full of football tourists with a **** atmosphere.

 

I suppose if we expand SMS and it doesn't fill up we can always do this

 

arsenal-fake-fans-1633328.jpg

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With cheaper season tickets like WHU we'd easily fill a 45k stadium every week.

 

More families could afford to bring their kids

More young people could afford it

Older folk might be able to make it work

 

It wouldn't be such a big decision as it is now. Any argument about not filling it is closely linked to the cost of attending, not the size of the fanbase.

 

Come on saints, be brave, make a difference and get more people in and get the next generations involved as well by making it financially easier for them to be at each match.

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Put it this way- today is costing me £60 to take me and my son. If that was below £50 I'd go a lot more and I dare say so would a lot more people.

 

Note: I'm not complaining, I'm can afford it. However I'd love to take my son to every home game I possibly can. I know there are a lot more people out there who find the current price impossible to afford except very occasionally.

However to keep the stadium full the fanbase needs to be a lot more active, more singing etc to make it a place fans want to go to

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With cheaper season tickets like WHU we'd easily fill a 45k stadium every week.

 

More families could afford to bring their kids

More young people could afford it

Older folk might be able to make it work

 

It wouldn't be such a big decision as it is now. Any argument about not filling it is closely linked to the cost of attending, not the size of the fanbase.

 

Come on saints, be brave, make a difference and get more people in and get the next generations involved as well by making it financially easier for them to be at each match.

 

But that's forgetting the fact West Ham are able to offer season tickets at a vastly reduced rate due to the fact that they have to bear little to none of the costs of actually running their "new" stadium.. The taxpayer is even paying to maintain the pitch and provide the goals and corner flags!!!

 

If Saints added 20k seats onto the stadium but reduced the ticket price to be a net equal income to today, where would the money to cover the extra costs incurred by having a bigger stadium come from?

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But that's forgetting the fact West Ham are able to offer season tickets at a vastly reduced rate due to the fact that they have to bear little to none of the costs of actually running their "new" stadium.. The taxpayer is even paying to maintain the pitch and provide the goals and corner flags!!!

 

If Saints added 20k seats onto the stadium but reduced the ticket price to be a net equal income to today, where would the money to cover the extra costs incurred by having a bigger stadium come from?

 

No disputing that but other clubs are expanding so it's not all tax funded. It also doesn't have to be reduced to provide the same income as it does today, it could still be higher but the cost to fans would be reduced. Also, other match day income would increase. An expansion could also be paid off over a long term. It's not impossible, but it would take some bravery from the club to be bold enough to do it.

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No disputing that but other clubs are expanding so it's not all tax funded. It also doesn't have to be reduced to provide the same income as it does today, it could still be higher but the cost to fans would be reduced. Also, other match day income would increase. An expansion could also be paid off over a long term. It's not impossible, but it would take some bravery from the club to be bold enough to do it.

There's nothing remotely brave about that course of action.

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No disputing that but other clubs are expanding so it's not all tax funded. It also doesn't have to be reduced to provide the same income as it does today, it could still be higher but the cost to fans would be reduced. Also, other match day income would increase. An expansion could also be paid off over a long term. It's not impossible, but it would take some bravery from the club to be bold enough to do it.

 

Which clubs, similar in size and support to ourselves, are expanding without tax payers assistance?

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Putting aside the attendance issue, I do think like others in this thread have said that West Ham style reduction of tickets and we'd sell 40k+ for a lot of games). £99 ST tickets for under 16's for example.

 

There is a perception issue of being in an identikit 32k stadium means Saints are viewed at a level below where on the pitch we have been for the last 3 seasons in the top 7/8. This doesn't sole need to be about ticket income (which is a shrinking % of PL club income with the TV deal), a bigger stadium raises our profile and may generate more income from other advertising streams.

 

If the club followed through on something like what they commissioned AFL architects to do it would raise the profile of the club and allow us to increase the matching fanbase...

 

pTw183F.jpg

 

 

tjRHjMO.jpg

 

 

If we built that, St Mary's would no longer be viewed as an identikit with Coventry, Middlesbrough, Leicester, Derby etc. It would change perceptions of the club along with what we've already done at Staplewood.

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