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Thread: Puel

  1. #1

    Default Puel

    Your thoughts please?
    For me, why change a system to that has got us to last eight in last four years, saying we have too many fixtures because of Europa League.
    We played a high pressing game for the last four years. Finishing top 8th.
    For me, he is drab, shows no emotion or leadership. Is he out his depth?
    Poch and Koeman oozed so much confidence when they came in, I haven't seen this with Puel.
    Van Dijk post match interview today body language did not look good, not happy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9-3 View Post
    Your thoughts please?
    For me, why change a system to that has got us to last eight in last four years, saying we have too many fixtures because of Europa League.
    We played a high pressing game for the last four years. Finishing top 8th.
    For me, he is drab, shows no emotion or leadership. Is he out his depth?
    Poch and Koeman oozed so much confidence when they came in, I haven't seen this with Puel.
    Van Dijk post match interview today body language did not look good, not happy.
    The Club must surely have known what they were getting when they appointed him. There was no rush and the Club themselves said that he was their preference after very careful consideration. It wasn't like the mess up when Sturrock was appointed at the last moment after a few vocal fans forced the Board to back down over Hoddle

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    I'd like to know what the board saw in him when they appointed him. At the moment I see a manager with very little personality (although that is, in part, down to the language barrier) and that has ditched a successful formation in favour of one he knows but that doesn't seem to suit the players we have available. I'd like to know why, after all we've heard about the 'Southampton Way' and implementing the same formation in all age groups, we've appointed a manager who has ripped up that blue print in one summer. I'm still hoping he will come good as he has a decent track record and our board do seem to do thorough due diligence but I am slightly concerned. A heavy defeat at Arsenal won't do us any favours either.

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    His affect is constricted and wooden, and the verbal delivery is in a droning prosody. Not a recipe for charisma. Lets pray it is the language matter, but Poch exuded a certain charisma even through an interpreter.

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    Default Puel

    Not too fussed how he sounds in front of the mic

    His set up is wrong.
    Even his subs today just shifted players around in the same set up, rather than changing it.

    Weird

    As said, it is a race on what goes first, the Diamond or the manager

  6. Default

    Our own LVG with less personality

  7. #7

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    Heavy defeat at Arsenal will put on so pressure.
    Puel shows no leadership for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adrian lord View Post
    His affect is constricted and wooden, and the verbal delivery is in a droning prosody. Not a recipe for charisma. Lets pray it is the language matter, but Poch exuded a certain charisma even through an interpreter.
    As Poch said, the language of football is international. Puel's public persona is irrelevant, his football language is the important one.

    ...btw, your written delivery does come across as very pompous, I presume this wasn't intended. Perhaps neither is Puel's 'droning prosody'?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Block34 View Post
    As Poch said, the language of football is international. Puel's public persona is irrelevant, his football language is the important one.

    ...btw, your written delivery does come across as very pompous, I presume this wasn't intended. Perhaps neither is Puel's 'droning prosody'?
    Leadership and the inspiration of men requires more than mere language.

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    Still too early though my doubts are increasing. First twenty minutes today was exiting football ++. As was the last 20 minutes. Not convinced by the diamond as it leaves us vulnerable and we rarely seem to get into the opponents penalty area to truly cause problems. I'll give him 5 more games before making a full judgement. Thank god we have an international break for transfers and training.

    And for the record Koeman had similar debates so don't be so quick to make a full judgement.

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    It's very early days..obviously believes in his system and I am hoping to see some of the fluent attacking displays I have heard his previous teams play. I hope the crowd do not turn on him but I also hope he demonstrates some flexibility in his tactics to get results. After all the result is more important than the formation.
    10 games in IMO is too late to judge as a quarter of the season is a lot of catch up to do..he needs 3 points from one game of at least the next two games IMO.

    Also I don't think we did play a high press game under RK.

  12. #12

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    He is lost, out of his depth. Brings in this new formation while the players aren't fans.

    Give him time to implement it, and maybe it will work out but atm not good enough

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggles31 View Post
    Still too early though my doubts are increasing. First twenty minutes today was exiting football ++. As was the last 20 minutes. Not convinced by the diamond as it leaves us vulnerable and we rarely seem to get into the opponents penalty area to truly cause problems. I'll give him 5 more games before making a full judgement. Thank god we have an international break for transfers and training.

    And for the record Koeman had similar debates so don't be so quick to make a full judgement.
    "Thank god we have an international break for transfers and training."

    Won't that mean that a lot of the players will be away for the internationals? Not much chance to develop the team structure.

  14. #14

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    At this moment the Saints play like Puel talks: boring. However, it does take time to adjust to a new system, especially after playing the long ball on Pelle for a couple of years. Besides, it doesn't appear to me that players like Austin, Davis, Long, Redmond and J-Rod are that smart when it comes to tactics but I could be wrong there of course... Anyway, hopefully some enforcements will arrive soon, players who don't need long to adjust to the PL and this diamond system. Let's see in a month or two if things have improved before writing Puel off.

  15. #15

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    I think the system has potential. The strikers are getting chances, or almost-chances (if they can beat the offside trap).

    32 of our 53 league goals last season came from Mane/Pelle/Long; Long is out of form having had a late start to preseason, the other 2 are gone. Puel still has about 30m to spend on 2 attacking players. We're judging him with a weaker and incomplete attacking group. I'm holding judgement until the windows shut and our squads complete. As for defence, we've conceded 2 poor goals vs Watford and Sunderland but our back 5 hasn't played together yet this season. No Bertrand, Cedric & Fonte are out of form with a late start. Again, I think it's better to give Puel and the team a few weeks after the international break before judging.

  16. #16

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    It would be interesting to see how long it took Puel to have Lille up and running.

  17. #17

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    Don't blame puel as such, his formation obviously worked in France. But les reed went for him when I imagine nobody else was available or those who were interested were possibly put off by what the club wanted to invest back into the team. Just feel pretty underwhelmed by the whole episode as do pretty much every saints fan I know. I can't see how this can be part of the 5 year plan and also the fact that the youth/academy teams all played the same formation and we've now gone totally the opposite direction. I'd love to see us improve under puel but I think it's a appointment made in haste when time was running out. Also les and Ralf seem to have gone very quiet.

  18. #18

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    His slow ponderous football is boring and pretty easy to defend against.

    I am worried that a player power battle will ensue. VVD spoke out yesterday, and Davis and Long both looked mightily peeved in our second match.

    After the emotions and drink yesterday, unfortunately I still feel the same about the manager. I just can't see him turning it around.

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    3 ****ing games! Are you lot like this in real life? Unbelievable.

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    God, some of our fans need to have a serious word with themselves. Intolerance, impatience and something bordering on xenophobia. The booing yesterday was unforgivable.

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    A great manager has charisma, character, an air of confidence. He lights up the room when he enters.

    Koeman, Pochettinio, Mourinho.....

    This guy doesn't have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Durman View Post
    A great manager has charisma, character, an air of confidence. He lights up the room when he enters.

    Koeman, Pochettinio, Mourinho.....

    This guy doesn't have it.

    My worry too. Reminiscent of a Deputy 4th Year Head in a Reading Comprehensive, not someone who can inspire young millionaires.
    Last edited by adrian lord; 28-08-2016 at 09:05 AM.

  23. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Garrett View Post
    His slow ponderous football is boring and pretty easy to defend against.
    Very similar to the slow ponderous football we played, on many occasions, for the last three and a half seasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hugh View Post
    God, some of our fans need to have a serious word with themselves. Intolerance, impatience and something bordering on xenophobia. The booing yesterday was unforgivable.
    I agree that some of our fans have backbones of putty but the few boos that were heard were surely aimed at the referee.

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    Very worried now. We didn't keep to exactly the same system under poch and Koeman but there was a progression not a jarring jump. The signings have been ok but the complete failure of the formation implementation or adaptability leaves me very jittery.
    Listening to van dijk's interview didn't make it sound like a happy camp either. Wasn't enamoured by decision to wait till 70th minute when failing utterly against an atrocious Sunderland side to make a change. I'd like a manager who you feel makes incisive effective changes and the jury is rather out on puel in that regard. This start has been atrocious, rolling over meekly to Utd with 4 points dropped at home to bottom half teams either side. If the performances were there and not the results you'd be less worried. As things stand we now need to go from a standstill to top 10 form, which is hard(though we did it last year). Perhaps international break has come at the right time for once, though puel will have little to work with as most will be away.

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    Listened to his post match interview in the car on the way home yesterday could not understand him or what he was on about.

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    I'm happy to give Puel enough time until players are back from injury or back on form but the early signs are worrying. I was rather underwhelmed at his appointment from the start and if the manager loses the players the it'll only go one way (see Chelsea last season)

    One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the Europa League, we should be too good for Sparta Prague and Hapoel Beer Sheva home and away and there are no excuses if we don't get through the group stage.

    Either Puel will get the diamond system working in some way, the diamond is scrapped and he gets us performing, or he'll be gone by Christmas.

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    I don't think our results would have been any better had Koeman still been here but without Pelle and Mane.

    I really don't think we should be judging the manager after his first 3 games, but we can judge the squad and it's seriously lacking in quality and goals right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toomer View Post
    Listened to his post match interview in the car on the way home yesterday could not understand him or what he was on about.
    So?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Durman View Post
    A great manager has charisma, character, an air of confidence. He lights up the room when he enters.

    Koeman, Pochettinio, Mourinho.....

    This guy doesn't have it.
    What about Sir Alf and Ted Bates hardly charismatic

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lets B Avenue View Post
    Very similar to the slow ponderous football we played, on many occasions, for the last three and a half seasons.
    You obviously didn't go to the matches if you think that.

  32. #32

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    Should of got Frank De Boar that would of been a natural progression... Similar style of football / same as Koeman. instead we have a toilet! Formation and a manager who is about as charismatic as a wet fart...

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    Didn't Lyon have champions league football every year for 7 odd years till Puel took over then they missed out as he changed system, may be wrong but read it somewhere

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    Quote Originally Posted by JackFrost View Post
    I'm happy to give Puel enough time until players are back from injury or back on form but the early signs are worrying. I was rather underwhelmed at his appointment from the start and if the manager loses the players the it'll only go one way (see Chelsea last season)

    One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the Europa League, we should be too good for Sparta Prague and Hapoel Beer Sheva home and away and there are no excuses if we don't get through the group stage.

    Either Puel will get the diamond system working in some way, the diamond is scrapped and he gets us performing, or he'll be gone by Christmas.
    Sparta Prague will be a very tough match. They will be a team very used to playing in Europe. Just because they are from a league you don't know much about doesn't mean they will be easy. Just look at West Ham. Thought they were favourites two years in a row against Astra Giurgiu and lost both times, and were second best fairly clearly both times in tactics and attitude. Just because players in our league get paid a lot more and cost more doesn't really mean they are that much better. Hapoel Beer Sheva should be the weakest team, but they won their league. We have no European pedigree to speak off, think if we get through the group we will have done well. This 'no excuses if we go out' rubbish is a very arrogant approach assuming we are better just because we play in a 'big league'. Let's not get ahead of ourselves

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    Whilst I am all for giving a manager time I am very worried. Under Poch, Koeman and even Adkins to a degree we played a high tempo, pressing type of football which this guy seems to have come in and ripped up. All we've heard the last 5 years is the Southampton way this and the Southampton way that. Well at the moment that seems to have gone out the window. I'm very concerned that its totally clear to anyone with half a brain that his preferred system doesn't work with the players we have available, but he plows on with it rather than changing the system to suit the players we have. Whilst I agree 3 games is no long enough to judge a manager sometimes an appointment just doesn't 'feel' right from the start, for me this is one of them. I hope I'm wrong but I have a horrible feeling our recruitment people have got it wrong this time.

  36. #36

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    The biggest reason we've done well last few years is we've had fab managers. Koeman especially after selling loads of his best players. People just seen to assume anyone will be as good as him and hardly anyone will be. Plus the fact that we could easily have kept koeman and blew it. The board said the black box could find Koemans replacement at anytime. Well looks like they have got wrong one. Koeman did well despite the board selling most of players imo and now we have sold 3 more top players and have a vastly inferior manager. No surprise we are going to struggle imo. Board are being found out.

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by stpedro View Post
    Sparta Prague will be a very tough match. They will be a team very used to playing in Europe. Just because they are from a league you don't know much about doesn't mean they will be easy. Just look at West Ham. Thought they were favourites two years in a row against Astra Giurgiu and lost both times, and were second best fairly clearly both times in tactics and attitude. Just because players in our league get paid a lot more and cost more doesn't really mean they are that much better. Hapoel Beer Sheva should be the weakest team, but they won their league. We have no European pedigree to speak off, think if we get through the group we will have done well. This 'no excuses if we go out' rubbish is a very arrogant approach assuming we are better just because we play in a 'big league'. Let's not get ahead of ourselves
    Yes, we are second favourites to win the group, but they will all be very tough games. Getting out of the group will be a good achievement.

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  38. #38

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    Previously we were told the club monitored 'up and coming' coaches across Europe, who would 'fit the system'. If so, I'd have though style of play, and formations would be known along with any particular preferences a candidate might have for 'diamond formations' etc.

    This should have been flushed out at an early stage.

    But it seems rather than have known identified targets, it was a case of who is available (possibly taking a principled approach of not wanting to take another club's manager, possibly the false economy of not wanting to pay compensation). Consequently Reed ended up scratching around a bit, Garcia (declined us), Pellegrini (considered too old..), so who's left ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tobes8 View Post
    Don't blame puel as such, his formation obviously worked in France. But les reed went for him when I imagine nobody else was available or those who were interested were possibly put off by what the club wanted to invest back into the team. Just feel pretty underwhelmed by the whole episode as do pretty much every saints fan I know. I can't see how this can be part of the 5 year plan and also the fact that the youth/academy teams all played the same formation and we've now gone totally the opposite direction. I'd love to see us improve under puel but I think it's a appointment made in haste when time was running out. Also les and Ralf seem to have gone very quiet.
    This has to be post of the week. Suspect you are close to the truth. Similar thing when we appointed 'Wurzel' after the expected appointment of Hoddle fell through.

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    The players have commented that his man management and relationship with the players is an improvement, so whatever people think of his personality in front of camera, the players don't agree.

    I'd also wager that if the very same formation, tactics, style and results were obtained by somebody like Emery, who the majority of fans were excited about, there wouldn't be as much fuss and hysteria after only three games. We'd be hearing 'give it time' and picking out the positives (there are positives, btw) instead of focusing on only the negatives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ally_uk View Post
    Should of got Frank De Boar that would of been a natural progression... Similar style of football / same as Koeman. instead we have a toilet! Formation and a manager who is about as charismatic as a wet fart...
    Agreed, or rewarded Koeman enough that he stayed at the club. If there was a 'will' we could have found a way of rewarding Koeman, without blowing the salary structure. The obvious way would have been huge bonus for European qualification, league places, Cups etc.

    The more likely scenario is the Club wants to do things on the cheap and that includes the job of the manager.

  42. #42

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    Two things worried me about the guy before the season even began. 1) He compared Redmond to Thierry Henry. 2) He imposed this diamond system. The best coaches dont enforce a system. They look at the players they have and come up with a system which works
    to their strengths. Now he's still trying to shift J-Rod even though there's hardly any goals in the team. Oh, and our back four, a strength for so many seasons, looks uncertain and exposed with this diamond in front of them. If we can see this.......

  43. #43

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    Really worried, yes it's only three games in & he should be given till Xmas which is a good fair chance but I've never seen the team exude such negative body language at such an early point in the season, if you went in the dressing room after the Sunderland game I'm sure no-one would be fighting for puels system & noone would feel he is the right motivator or leader needed! Like others have said this appointment just doesn't feel the right fit for saints, I think it's only going to go one way once the dressing room completely loses faith in him, I feel he is a decent manager in a French league where it's more suited to his style but not right for saints, the board must be seeing something different right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baird of the land View Post
    Wasn't enamoured by decision to wait till 70th minute when failing utterly against an atrocious Sunderland side to make a change. I'd like a manager who you feel makes incisive effective changes and the jury is rather out on puel in that regard.
    exactly Moyes viewed our 'system and after 10 minutes changed his set up higher back line did the trick for them then Puel waited until 70 mins to change

    Puel got lucky yesterday , yes the boos were for the ref but with the body language of the players, the papers reaction that we look muddled the boo's will soon be the universal language of football no one wants to hear

    Practice and training thru out the players career that has led them to a top six prem team js ingrained in them so they act instinctively , they are now being made to think differently and current it appears are not all at the same point along the track of this new system they are appearing in positions alien to them , when we see misplaced passes and strong discussions between players they arn't happy with the system or each others comprehension of it

    going to be a long international break to mull over these 3 results

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    Quote Originally Posted by stpedro View Post
    Sparta Prague will be a very tough match. They will be a team very used to playing in Europe. Just because they are from a league you don't know much about doesn't mean they will be easy. Just look at West Ham. Thought they were favourites two years in a row against Astra Giurgiu and lost both times, and were second best fairly clearly both times in tactics and attitude. Just because players in our league get paid a lot more and cost more doesn't really mean they are that much better. Hapoel Beer Sheva should be the weakest team, but they won their league. We have no European pedigree to speak off, think if we get through the group we will have done well. This 'no excuses if we go out' rubbish is a very arrogant approach assuming we are better just because we play in a 'big league'. Let's not get ahead of ourselves
    West Ham practically played half their reserve side in both matches against Astra. If we do the same I'd be surprised if we won a game in the group.

    You've misunderstood part of my post as I actually largely agree with most of your post. How "big" a league we play in has nothing to do with it and I never said anywhere it would be 'easy'.

    If we did find form, our current players should be too good for Prague or Beer Sheva, who are predominantly made up of domestic players, whose better players might get in the Czech/Israeli national sides. On current form however, we'll be struggling and like I said there will be no excuses. We'd go out because we simply aren't good enough.

  46. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Huffton View Post
    Whilst I am all for giving a manager time I am very worried. Under Poch, Koeman and even Adkins to a degree we played a high tempo, pressing type of football which this guy seems to have come in and ripped up. All we've heard the last 5 years is the Southampton way this and the Southampton way that. Well at the moment that seems to have gone out the window. I'm very concerned that its totally clear to anyone with half a brain that his preferred system doesn't work with the players we have available, but he plows on with it rather than changing the system to suit the players we have. Whilst I agree 3 games is no long enough to judge a manager sometimes an appointment just doesn't 'feel' right from the start, for me this is one of them. I hope I'm wrong but I have a horrible feeling our recruitment people have got it wrong this time.
    Exactly how I see it.

  47. #47

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    Personally think it's a culmination of things, firstly our last 2 premier managers, whilst inexperienced here were both known and respected players before they got here, so straight away both players and fans respected them. Secondly koeman was so popular amongst fans that our next appointment needed to be a real statement of intent otherwise it's too esay for fans to get on their back, look how long united took to get ferguson out of their system. Lastly i'm sure before he was appointed french journalists were saying he was quiet in front of the cameras but brilliant on the training ground, just hope that the players who liked koeman give this guy a chance and aren't moping around saying 'the last manager didn't do this'

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    It hurts a lot to see our 'Southampton Way' discarded to suit a new manager's rigid doctrine of how football should be played. And I'm shocked with my own reaction. Why is the lively, positive football style, that I have grown up with, not valued by Puel and Les Read? (Les must espouse what we are seeing).

    Saints have been in our family's DNA ever since my grandfather, born 1887, took me to my first match at the Dell as a tiny lad in the 1950's. Then we weren't playing well but new manager Ted Bates was beginning to rebuild a relegated, despondent, in debt SFC. Then, as now, people were saying give the new manager time. Ted Bates was already a hero from his playing times, so he came to the job with some goodwill. He was a natural fit. But Puel isn't, sadly. His diamond doesn't fit the players he inherited, that is obvious. On the pitch they don't seem to know where each other is or should be. Their wayward passing and flick-ons are to players who aren't in the positions that they ought to be according to the system. I see three Saints players running after the same ball and they look disjointed and unhappy.

    Puel has had enough time over the summer break to make the system work. Our players have professionally tried to make it work, but they are looking uncomfortable and worried. It seems that to make his diamond work he wants to discard and replace. We have transferred poorly so far this summer, and I do not want to see our best players wanting out. I'm sorry, this is not the Saints I want to watch. This shocks me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eelpie View Post
    It hurts a lot to see our 'Southampton Way' discarded to suit a new manager's rigid doctrine of how football should be played. And I'm shocked with my own reaction. Why is the lively, positive football style, that I have grown up with, not valued by Puel and Les Read? (Les must espouse what we are seeing).

    Saints have been in our family's DNA ever since my grandfather, born 1887, took me to my first match at the Dell as a tiny lad in the 1950's. Then we weren't playing well but new manager Ted Bates was beginning to rebuild a relegated, despondent, in debt SFC. Then, as now, people were saying give the new manager time. Ted Bates was already a hero from his playing times, so he came to the job with some goodwill. He was a natural fit. But Puel isn't, sadly. His diamond doesn't fit the players he inherited, that is obvious. On the pitch they don't seem to know where each other is or should be. Their wayward passing and flick-ons are to players who aren't in the positions that they ought to be according to the system. I see three Saints players running after the same ball and they look disjointed and unhappy.

    Puel has had enough time over the summer break to make the system work. Our players have professionally tried to make it work, but they are looking uncomfortable and worried. It seems that to make his diamond work he wants to discard and replace. We have transferred poorly so far this summer, and I do not want to see our best players wanting out. I'm sorry, this is not the Saints I want to watch. This shocks me.
    Sobering thoughts spoke with honesty. I think you speak for many.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek2003 View Post
    Sobering thoughts spoke with honesty. I think you speak for many.
    He doesn't speak for me. Seems a very hysterical rant, knee jerking on stuff he doesn't really have a full insight on.

    I can remember games under Koeman and MP where we played a hell of a lot worse - a hell of a lot. Way too much over the time tripe is being written about this formation. Just seems an easy thing for people to lump at the manager when they don't really have the full insight or knowledge.

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