Perspective and Patience.

You lost me at hi !

You lost me at hi !

Was going to post something similar, what a dull post.

You lost me at hi !

Thank f*ck for that. Aren't you the bloke who compared Mane to Ali Dia...?

Puel has managed us for 9 games now, I've not seen anything in any of those 9 games to inspire optimism

 

I am more patient than some on here, but also have a skill for spotting talent and lack there of before most. Should I wait for the rest to catch up before I can comment?

 

Doing nothing and saying nothing does not make you a better fan...

I'll bite - what makes you better at this than literally anyone else ever?

Puel can prove all us doubters wrong. You can't expect us not to comment until 10 games into his reign though. Former managers have been criticised for not having a plan b; Puel is yet to demonstrate he has a working plan a.

Although not to the extreme some have expressed their concerns, I don't think it's unreasonable for fans to feel a little deflated at the way the off-season/transfer window has panned out (so far).

After finishing in their highest ever (Premier) league position - three points off a Champions League place - qualifying for the Europa Cup group stage, signing the most lucrative kit manufacturing and shirt sponsorship deals in the club's history, on top of the financial windfall of the biggest ever broadcasting contract kicking in, Saints have never been in a stronger position to build on their progress.

And yet, far from strengthening the team and looking to push on, we've contrived to start the season in a weaker state.

All the optimism built up over our storming second half of last season (second only to Leicester in points gained in 2016) has ebbed away, along with the manager, coaching staff, best attackers and midfield man mountain.

I've no doubt the club know what they're doing and we'll possibly have a half decent season after everything has settled down again, but the dreamers among us had probably hoped we'd aspire to more.

Although not to the extreme some have expressed their concerns, I don't think it's unreasonable for fans to feel a little deflated at the way the off-season/transfer window has panned out (so far).

 

After finishing in their highest ever (Premier) league position - three points off a Champions League place - qualifying for the Europa Cup group stage, signing the most lucrative kit manufacturing and shirt sponsorship deals in the club's history, on top of the financial windfall of the biggest ever broadcasting contract kicking in, Saints have never been in a stronger position to build on their progress.

 

And yet, far from strengthening the team and looking to push on, we've contrived to start the season in a weaker state.

 

All the optimism built up over our storming second half of last season (second only to Leicester in points gained in 2016) has ebbed away, along with the manager, coaching staff, best attackers and midfield man mountain.

 

I've no doubt the club know what they're doing and we'll possibly have a half decent season after everything has settled down again, but the dreamers among us had probably hoped we'd aspire to more.

Spot on.

I'll bite - what makes you better at this than literally anyone else ever?

I said better than most, not anyone else.

Take Mane for example - I can't be bovered to trail through old posts but you'll recall he was given a hard time early on?

I was one of the few posters at the time that could see the potential and defended him passionately (I was called a WUM for doing so - go figure lol) anyway I stuck by my senses and we know how that went.

5 or 6 similar examples over the years, I just seem to be able to see the bigger picture I guess. Watching some games twice (I do this alot) might help? I will sometimes watch a game and then watch just one player - I am looking at certain things and will evaluate a player on a number of things including Height, Heading, Jumping, Bravery, Anticipation, Composure, Leadership, Stamina, Positioning, Technique, Work Rate, Tackling, Agility, Natural Fitnes, Personality, Vision, Ball Control, Flair, Dribbling and Crossing, Quickness or Jumping, Finishing, Teamwork, Passing.

We're never going to be in a position to go and replace a Mane for e.g, with a total like for like. If there was a like for like out there, then he'd have already moved to a big club. We have to go down the other route - look for young potential, players who want to improve and have all the raw tools to reach the top level. That's where our 3 signings rank.

 

When we brought in Mane he wasn't a world beater, he had a similar profile as Boufal (possibly not as highly rated at the time), but also had the right attitude and raw tools to improve. We improved him, just as we'll improve Hojbjerg, Redmond and co. I think there is a sense that people look at how Redmond performed at Norwich and see that as his maximum, but I can assure you the club wouldn't have signed him if they thought that was his maximum.

 

In a season or 2 I'm sure we'll be back on here winging and moaning that we cannot keep Boufal and we haven't replaced him with a decent replacement etc. And the wheel will go round. and round. I accept where we sit on the football food chain and as a club we've got it down to the t.

 

There's still no real reason for the hysterical rubbish written on here. (Although mainly from trolls and WUM's it has to be said)

Get over yourself mate really. People care about the club and are genuinely worried. Not calling for managers head but have reservations. It's a football discussion board. I think with the players we have sold over last few years and the great manager we've lost, it's perfectly reasonable for people to be worried. Your tone is very much "I know everything". Maybe I should show you the messages you sent me when cortese left. You were going mental. Saying it's all going down pan. That was before that season started. So please stop the lectures and look at every event on merit not just tow the club line on everything it's getting tedious.

I may be wrong but I don't think there are too many people that upset with our transfers - we've lost players to much bigger clubs (aside from Pelle who we clearly wanted to sell) and replaced them with good, potentially great youngsters (which we have a track record of doing).

The original poster talked of patience - and it is patience of the manager /system that is splitting the fan base more. From a manager / coach PoV there are big questions - RK went to Everton - not a clearly bigger club - could we have kept him ?. We've brought a manager into the club who clearly has a different system to the 'Southampton way' which the u23s still seem to be playing. We've merged him with DW - one of the old guard (can see conflict there) and Erik Black - a most unpopular figure for Villa fans who was part of an embarrassing season for a team arguably bigger than us and had some uncomfortably similar situations (brought in a highly regarded French manager, sold there 3 best players and spent the money on potential etc.

So whilst I would agree on patience, I'm certainly not In the 'I'm not worried camp'. What I want to see is for us to at least try the old formation - strikes me that with our personnel we could field a strong and exciting team, less so with a diamond.

I've also seen some worryingly arrogant chat that we are too good to go down. That should be true given our squad but it is amazingly easy for a club to fall apart - especially if players no longer believe in what they as doing.

Does anyone doubt this is directly from the club?

I would guess that most of us doubt that. I would have written something like that myself except that I have been busy and, if I had written it, I would have posted it on my blog. I do wonder where you post came directly from.

Reminds me of the Autumn of 2004. 'All's Rosy in the Garden' 'No need to panic' 'Relax' etc...

And of course the same people were running the club then. But I went back and check and after three games we have one more point that year than we do know. You are right it is time to panic.

Yes you are correct we just cannot possibly become a better team if we lose influential players and coaches so I am not expecting us to be as competitive this season but I can see this team developing next season to be a very good one.

 

Perhaps we will succeed in Europe with the new formation this season as we were pretty awful in Europe last season

Nonsense. Oops. Just realized you were being sarcastic. Good post.

I may be wrong but I don't think there are too many people that upset with our transfers - we've lost players to much bigger clubs (aside from Pelle who we clearly wanted to sell) and replaced them with good, potentially great youngsters (which we have a track record of doing).

The original poster talked of patience - and it is patience of the manager /system that is splitting the fan base more. From a manager / coach PoV there are big questions - RK went to Everton - not a clearly bigger club - could we have kept him ?. We've brought a manager into the club who clearly has a different system to the 'Southampton way' which the u23s still seem to be playing. We've merged him with DW - one of the old guard (can see conflict there) and Erik Black - a most unpopular figure for Villa fans who was part of an embarrassing season for a team arguably bigger than us and had some uncomfortably similar situations (brought in a highly regarded French manager, sold there 3 best players and spent the money on potential etc.

So whilst I would agree on patience, I'm certainly not In the 'I'm not worried camp'. What I want to see is for us to at least try the old formation - strikes me that with our personnel we could field a strong and exciting team, less so with a diamond.

I've also seen some worryingly arrogant chat that we are too good to go down. That should be true given our squad but it is amazingly easy for a club to fall apart - especially if players no longer believe in what they as doing.

But we did not sell our three best players. At worst we sold two of our four best players or three of our six best players or four of our 20 best players.

FF, of course we are less strong. Even if you can compare like for like player wise, the likes of Liverpool aren't going to pay us £35m for a player that is inferior to one that we pick up for half that price as they can just go and do that themselves and by-pass us completely.

Actually in some cases that's exactly what has happened!

We're never going to be in a position to go and replace a Mane for e.g, with a total like for like. If there was a like for like out there, then he'd have already moved to a big club. We have to go down the other route - look for young potential, players who want to improve and have all the raw tools to reach the top level. That's where our 3 signings rank.

 

When we brought in Mane he wasn't a world beater, he had a similar profile as Boufal (possibly not as highly rated at the time), but also had the right attitude and raw tools to improve. We improved him, just as we'll improve Hojbjerg, Redmond and co. I think there is a sense that people look at how Redmond performed at Norwich and see that as his maximum, but I can assure you the club wouldn't have signed him if they thought that was his maximum.

 

In a season or 2 I'm sure we'll be back on here winging and moaning that we cannot keep Boufal and we haven't replaced him with a decent replacement etc. And the wheel will go round. and round. I accept where we sit on the football food chain and as a club we've got it down to the t.

 

There's still no real reason for the hysterical rubbish written on here. (Although mainly from trolls and WUM's it has to be said)

Agree with this except I don't believe it's a wheel we're on but an upward spiral.

As the original poster pointed out, each time we go through this we are having less departures (5 to 4 to 3).

Also, whilst the players that leave are further on in their development than the players we are bringing in, the incoming ones have more potential and thus more upside. Read what Mr. Guardiola said about Hojbjerg in Per Confidential and Boufal looks to have all the attributes to be a world beater. They are both still young (as is Redmond) and have a lot of improving to do so a little patience is needed.

Each time we go through this cycle we are getting better talent to work with and usually making additional signings to add to squad depth. The Lambert, Lallana, Lovren year had a good first 11 but slim pickings beyond that. Now we have two good players in every position.

Another factor in our upward spiral is that we are tying our core players to long term contracts. 7 of them took up new extended contracts this summer and the 3 young starlets we've brought in have all signed decent length deals.

We have also upgraded our training facilities at Staplewood to be world class and have boosted our academy with some new talent in the off season.

I have the impression that as a club we are slowly, slowly building to a critical mass where we can be a solid top half of the table club with legitimate aspirations of one day making a Champions League position (not this season but one like the last one where some of the big clubs get caught out).

We are slowly building to the point where having a player or two throw their toys out of the pram and demand a move (as will happen) will really not impact us anywhere as near as it has done in the past.

Take some time to reflect and look at how much this club of ours has achieved in the last 7 years and have some patience with the strategy as sometimes you need to take a little step backwards to make the next step forwards.

I'm confident things are heading in the right direction even though results aren't currently going our way and, like the original poster, am exasperated by some of the ridiculously over the top negativity on the site at the moment.

Unless you're stupid enough to think we can be a top six club, then everything is going very nicely to plan. We are already well on the way to being established as a 7 - 10 club in the PL. We will occasionally finish above that, or below, but most years we will be in there, with Europa League as our "prize".

We can never be a top six club, the step up is far too big. It doesn't just involve buying a couple of expensive players. So the only alternative is down. Let's focus on consolidating where we are. As a club, not just a first team.

And after 50 years supporting Saints, I am more than happy with that.

like the original poster, am exasperated by some of the ridiculously over the top negativity on the site at the moment.

Why be exasperated? That's exactly how the usual suspects on here want to make you feel. Just do what I do and sit back and watch with mild amusement as they follow the usual script every time we have an indifferent start to the season or a bad run mid season.

They feed off reactions (indeed, watch the response this post of mine will receive.... "So, we're not allowed an alternative opinion?"..." Its a forum for discussion"... "Give us your own opinion Trousers"...." Deflection....blah blah blah"..."chomp chomp chomp".....Textbook stuff).

Its almost as of this forum has been infiltrated by a bunch of Pompey fans intent on winding up your average pragmatic Saints fan. Which of course it hasn't. Ridiculous notion....

On with the show...Act 5 Scene 2....

FF, of course we are less strong. Even if you can compare like for like player wise, the likes of Liverpool aren't going to pay us £35m for a player that is inferior to one that we pick up for half that price as they can just go and do that themselves and by-pass us completely.

Lovren sold for £20M

VVD bought for £11.5M

There is a lot of sense in your post but if you compare our three major incomings (all good signings) against our three major outgoings I would say we are a weaker team at present (still 2 days to go).

That and the fact we are playing a new system with a new manager has lead to the over the top unrest.

And the fact that with the Extra Europa games we will need a stronger squad just to stay at the same level on the League. We should have been aiming at keeping the squad together AND adding players like Redmond.

Yes you are correct we just cannot possibly become a better team if we lose influential players and coaches so I am not expecting us to be as competitive this season but I can see this team developing next season to be a very good one.

 

Perhaps we will succeed in Europe with the new formation this season as we were pretty awful in Europe last season

Agree... As long as the team stick together.

Thank f*ck for that. Aren't you the bloke who compared Mane to Ali Dia...?

No I dont believe I did , thanks for noticing me though Les!

Why be exasperated? That's exactly how the usual suspects on here want to make you feel. Just do what I do and sit back and watch with mild amusement as they follow the usual script every time we have an indifferent start to the season or a bad run mid season.

 

They feed off reactions (indeed, watch the response this post of mine will receive.... "So, we're not allowed an alternative opinion?"..." Its a forum for discussion"... "Give us your own opinion Trousers"...." Deflection....blah blah blah"..."chomp chomp chomp".....Textbook stuff).

 

Its almost as of this forum has been infiltrated by a bunch of Pompey fans intent on winding up your average pragmatic Saints fan. Which of course it hasn't. Ridiculous notion....

 

On with the show...Act 5 Scene 2....

 

Written like a true club PR plant.

Lovren sold for £20M

 

VVD bought for £11.5M

think it was a bit more than that, but still a really fantastic deal.

After the Lovren deal to Liverpool, I asked myself if he was really " worth " the whole £8 million we paid for him ?.....or was it just Jose Fonte who made him look good.?

I said better than most, not anyone else.

 

Take Mane for example - I can't be bovered to trail through old posts but you'll recall he was given a hard time early on?

 

I was one of the few posters at the time that could see the potential and defended him passionately (I was called a WUM for doing so - go figure lol) anyway I stuck by my senses and we know how that went.

 

5 or 6 similar examples over the years, I just seem to be able to see the bigger picture I guess. Watching some games twice (I do this alot) might help? I will sometimes watch a game and then watch just one player - I am looking at certain things and will evaluate a player on a number of things including Height, Heading, Jumping, Bravery, Anticipation, Composure, Leadership, Stamina, Positioning, Technique, Work Rate, Tackling, Agility, Natural Fitnes, Personality, Vision, Ball Control, Flair, Dribbling and Crossing, Quickness or Jumping, Finishing, Teamwork, Passing.

But are you performing player analysis with your son by using FIFA 16 to scout players? Maybe something you should think about adding to you repertoire.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank f*ck for that. Aren't you the bloke who compared Mane to Ali Dia...?

Why be exasperated? That's exactly how the usual suspects on here want to make you feel. Just do what I do and sit back and watch with mild amusement as they follow the usual script every time we have an indifferent start to the season or a bad run mid season.

 

They feed off reactions (indeed, watch the response this post of mine will receive.... "So, we're not allowed an alternative opinion?"..." Its a forum for discussion"... "Give us your own opinion Trousers"...." Deflection....blah blah blah"..."chomp chomp chomp".....Textbook stuff).

 

Its almost as of this forum has been infiltrated by a bunch of Pompey fans intent on winding up your average pragmatic Saints fan. Which of course it hasn't. Ridiculous notion....

 

On with the show...Act 5 Scene 2....

 

Where's the dastardly and muttley medal pic? Used to be a fan favourite, seems to have dropped off the radar.

Oh, wow. Another dull long-winded sermon questioning others loyalty to their club.

Agree... As long as the team stick together.

Why would the team not stick together

SFC pay their wages I think they should do within reason what SFC tells them

Hi, I've been a long time lurker on the forum and have rarely posted, but given the ridiculousness of some posts I've read following the previous match I thought I might as well chuck my opinion into the ring...

 

There has been a sudden and rapid snowballing of negativity on this forum. This has been aimed at a board that, albeit with a few personnel changes, has overseen steady and near constant progress and success over the past 7 years and at a manager who has so far only lost one match in charge; away from home against a Manchester United side who have just broken the world transfer record for arguably the best box to box midfielder out there and signed one of the most talented and decorated strikers of all time.

 

Now, I'm all for people being able to express their opinion even if it goes against the grain or isn't all smiley and rosey, but some people really do need to get a grip.

 

Firstly, the club has now replaced each player who has left this summer: Juanmi with Redmond, Mane with Boufal, Wanyama with Hojbjerg and Pelle's departure was already covered by Austin. (I haven't counted Ramirez as he contributed as little to nothing as you could possibly get to the last season and spent half of it not at the club.) Only time will tell if these players will be capable replacements, but surely some patience is warranted as not all players settle at the same rate. I seem to remember Mane, Pelle and even Wanyama at points, all being heavily criticised or written off as flops on here by some.

 

Secondly, we have played three competitive games so far. Three. We have yet to win, but last season we won once in ten matches in the league at one point, with only one draw in there too; against a Villa side who were one of the worst ever in the Premier League. I know it's a new season, new team, past results are irrelevant to now etc., but what I think is relevant is the comparison between managerial treatment. Koeman was nowhere near as criticised as Puel has been and that run produced numerous poor performances far worse than any we've seen thus far in my view. I know he had earned the fans' faith by then after a strong season in charge, but surely Puel deserves a chance to get going at the very least? At the moment there seems to be a guilty until proven innocent attitude amongst some fans. I mean, come on, this barely even constitutes a bad run of form yet, let alone a crisis!

 

Thirdly, we are Southampton. We are not a powerhouse in the football world. Players will come and players will go, often over only a two season term. It's a shame, obviously, but it's the reality of things. Things are gradually improving, however. Whilst I think Pelle could have done a job for us for another season or two, he had slowly been phased out of the starting lineup by Long and would have been seen as below Austin in the pecking order this coming season. For me, we've lost two guaranteed starters this summer (Mane, Wanyama) as opposed to three the summer before (Schneiderlin, Clyne, Alderweireld) and four the one before that (Lambert, Lovren, Lallana, Shaw. Five if you counted Chambers as starting RB).

 

Finally, our performances to date this season have really not been as bad as some are making out. Heck if you look at the statistics alongside them you'd say we've actually been a bit unlucky. Yes I know lies, damned lies and all that, but it really hasn't been the 'Propaganda football' some have claimed; it's not like we've been having hundreds of pot shots from forty yards or Van Dijk and Fonte have been tapping it back and forth to each other for minutes at a time to boost our percentages. We've had solid moments of play in all three games and a few very exciting ones too where the midfield and attack have linked up brilliantly. Admittedly there have been some iffy periods but in general I genuinely believe we've been alright; not great, but alright. The potential is definitely there though in my view, it's just a matter of time before it's unlocked.

 

Anyway, this post is starting to become long winded, so I'll cut to the chase: Maintain some patience and perspective. There is no crisis yet. There's more than 40 games left in the season as a whole, 35 of those in the league so I think we might have enough time to turn it around. Let's not become a knee-jerk fan base and let's get behind the team, because creating a negative atmosphere might make some feel validated, but it is never helpful in bringing about good results that we all desire.

Crisis Management Report LRRC 27, codename 'The Peasants are Revolting'. Get it on my desk first thing Monday morning, scrub that, allowing for the bank holiday first thing Tuesday morning...

Yawn.

There is a middle ground between licking the club's arse and 'we are all doomed.' A lot of the former are so far up there, that as soon as they see any negativity they brandish people 'bed wetters'. It's a nonsense basically, and in many cases people attack the poster without actually debating and digesting what they have written.

There is such a thing as constructive criticism, I kind of get the impression that some people have deluded themselves so much that anything they see to be negative they react emotionally, rather than actually discussing it rationally.

Like someone above said, the club was in it's best position for many years, many of us want to make sure the club are doing everything they can to build from that. I don't really see that being a problem on a football discussion board.

At the end of the day, we have sold some of our best players, we've lost our manager who did very well last season and there are obvious question marks about the replacements for those players and that manager, those questions are pretty reasonable IMO, especially when said manager seems to be forcing a talented bunch of players into a formation that so far does not seem to suit them.

And when you have your best finish, you generally want to see the club try to build on that, so that's improving the squad, whereas we have basically spent most of the transfer window trying to repair the squad. For many supporters that is a bit underwhelming and I think that is a reasonable opinion to have.

Yawn.

 

There is a middle ground between licking the club's arse and 'we are all doomed.' A lot of the former are so far up there, that as soon as they see any negativity they brandish people 'bed wetters'. It's a nonsense basically, and in many cases people attack the poster without actually debating and digesting what they have written.

 

There is such a thing as constructive criticism, I kind of get the impression that some people have deluded themselves so much that anything they see to be negative they react emotionally, rather than actually discussing it rationally.

 

Like someone above said, the club was in it's best position for many years, many of us want to make sure the club are doing everything they can to build from that. I don't really see that being a problem on a football discussion board.

 

At the end of the day, we have sold some of our best players, we've lost our manager who did very well last season and there are obvious question marks about the replacements for those players and that manager, those questions are pretty reasonable IMO, especially when said manager seems to be forcing a talented bunch of players into a formation that so far does not seem to suit them.

 

And when you have your best finish, you generally want to see the club try to build on that, so that's improving the squad, whereas we have basically spent most of the transfer window trying to repair the squad. For many supporters that is a bit underwhelming and I think that is a reasonable opinion to have.

Top post.

Yawn.

 

There is a middle ground between licking the club's arse and 'we are all doomed.' A lot of the former are so far up there, that as soon as they see any negativity they brandish people 'bed wetters'. It's a nonsense basically, and in many cases people attack the poster without actually debating and digesting what they have written.

 

There is such a thing as constructive criticism, I kind of get the impression that some people have deluded themselves so much that anything they see to be negative they react emotionally, rather than actually discussing it rationally.

 

Like someone above said, the club was in it's best position for many years, many of us want to make sure the club are doing everything they can to build from that. I don't really see that being a problem on a football discussion board.

 

At the end of the day, we have sold some of our best players, we've lost our manager who did very well last season and there are obvious question marks about the replacements for those players and that manager, those questions are pretty reasonable IMO, especially when said manager seems to be forcing a talented bunch of players into a formation that so far does not seem to suit them.

 

And when you have your best finish, you generally want to see the club try to build on that, so that's improving the squad, whereas we have basically spent most of the transfer window trying to repair the squad. For many supporters that is a bit underwhelming and I think that is a reasonable opinion to have.

Nail on the head!

Unless you're stupid enough to think we can be a top six club, then everything is going very nicely to plan. We are already well on the way to being established as a 7 - 10 club in the PL. We will occasionally finish above that, or below, but most years we will be in there, with Europa League as our "prize".

 

We can never be a top six club, the step up is far too big. It doesn't just involve buying a couple of expensive players. So the only alternative is down. Let's focus on consolidating where we are. As a club, not just a first team.

 

And after 50 years supporting Saints, I am more than happy with that.

Hutch

Good post

Like you I have supported Saints for a long time and, at the early stages, never expected them to reach the heights of Division 1.

Then it was a long period of fighting relegation then concerns about the future of the club before the recent resurgence.

Problem is us supporters (particularly the newcomers) have an increased expectation level and any downward movement in the League position causes meltdown.

I am quite happy for regular mid table finishes, without any flirtation with relegation, plus a go at the various cups.

Like you I think it is unrealistic for us (and any club of our size) to challenge for the top places unless we get a mega rich Asian owner who is happy to chuck vast amounts of money at the club.

I'm relatively happy with transfer activity even if we don't buy anyone else. The club seems to be buying talented players an approach that has worked previously. Equally i fully accept players will go if they don't sign new contracts(Mane etc)

Difference to Koeman last year is he had built up a years worth of trust via the performances the previous season. A more apt comparison would be to Koeman's first season where we lost to Liverpool and endured an awful draw with WBA. We then won 4 in a row.

The problem is that we now an extra game in with no sign of that upturn. If he wins 3/4 in a row people's nerves will settle. I disagree with the sentiment that performances have not been bad. We were atrocious first half against watford. We were somewhat better second half but then rather toothless against 10 men. We then followed that up with an atrocious capitulation to a strong united team, which easily could have been a cricket score. That game showed a manager more akin in approach to Martinez rather than the pragmatism of Koeman which is a definite worry to me. That embarrassment was followed up by a limp lucky escape against Sunderland. I think it's quite reasonable for people to have worries about the radically different tactical approach of this new manager. I'm looking for signs of improvement, for signs of pragmatism/adaptability/incisiveness from the manager and not seeing it so far. I hope we have picked well but there's nothing wrong with people expressing their unhappiness and fears based on the poor performances this far.

I'm relatively happy with transfer activity even if we don't buy anyone else. The club seems to be buying talented players an approach that has worked previously. Equally i fully accept players will go if they don't sign new contracts(Mane etc)

 

Difference to Koeman last year is he had built up a years worth of trust via the performances the previous season. A more apt comparison would be to Koeman's first season where we lost to Liverpool and endured an awful draw with WBA. We then won 4 in a row.

 

The problem is that we now an extra game in with no sign of that upturn. If he wins 3/4 in a row people's nerves will settle. I disagree with the sentiment that performances have not been bad. We were atrocious first half against watford. We were somewhat better second half but then rather toothless against 10 men. We then followed that up with an atrocious capitulation to a strong united team, which easily could have been a cricket score. That game showed a manager more akin in approach to Martinez rather than the pragmatism of Koeman which is a definite worry to me. That embarrassment was followed up by a limp lucky escape against Sunderland. I think it's quite reasonable for people to have worries about the radically different tactical approach of this new manager. I'm looking for signs of improvement, for signs of pragmatism/adaptability/incisiveness from the manager and not seeing it so far. I hope we have picked well but there's nothing wrong with people expressing their unhappiness and fears based on the poor performances this far.

Good post, with which I agree. I'm hoping to be proved wrong, but I find Poel uninspiring.

Can only hope that the tactical changes will come right or, alternatively, he'll revise his thinking. After all, with each change from Adkins to Pochettino to Koeman we saw changes too, and they took a few games to bear fruit.

I'm not unhappy with our player dealings this window, and I think if we had this squad with Koeman I'd be happy. No doubt in my mind that it was his leaving that has caused the overarching sense of unease.

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I said better than most, not anyone else.

 

Take Mane for example - I can't be bovered to trail through old posts but you'll recall he was given a hard time early on?

 

I was one of the few posters at the time that could see the potential and defended him passionately (I was called a WUM for doing so - go figure lol) anyway I stuck by my senses and we know how that went.

 

5 or 6 similar examples over the years, I just seem to be able to see the bigger picture I guess. Watching some games twice (I do this alot) might help? I will sometimes watch a game and then watch just one player - I am looking at certain things and will evaluate a player on a number of things including Height, Heading, Jumping, Bravery, Anticipation, Composure, Leadership, Stamina, Positioning, Technique, Work Rate, Tackling, Agility, Natural Fitnes, Personality, Vision, Ball Control, Flair, Dribbling and Crossing, Quickness or Jumping, Finishing, Teamwork, Passing.

I think you are placing too much emphasis on 'jumping'.

You do make me chuckle though Glasgow, you massive nobber.

Lovren sold for £20M

 

VVD bought for £11.5M

OK fair enough - maybe that one, but at the time of signing was he better? That is what I am on about, before us developing which is where the money is to be made. But Lallana/Classie? Mané/????. Clyne/Cedric?

Written like a true club PR plant.

Where's the dastardly and muttley medal pic? Used to be a fan favourite, seems to have dropped off the radar.

Nope, lost me there....

OK fair enough - maybe that one, but at the time of signing was he better? That is what I am on about, before us developing which is where the money is to be made. But Lallana/Classie? Mané/????. Clyne/Cedric?

They also got Coutinho at the time we were after him for a modest price so there will be plenty examples of both. It's not an excuse for settling for less quality overall. A couple of weeks ago the happy clappers were adamant that that Long, Austin and Rodriguez was all the quality we needed.

I really don't give a sh*t if it is from the club.....it's bloody right. This forum is becoming like an asylum overtaken by lunatics with no perspective!

Its not right though is it. Whilst the fans should be patient and give Puel and the players time.... the fact remains that we were the 2nd best form team in 2016, almost got champions league and have had years of record revenues and profits. Against that backdrop we've sold 3 first team players, replaced them with 3 players who don't do the same jobs as well and ripped up the formation we've been playing for 3-4years despite the clubs 4-3-3 philosophy.

For all that people want to live in the past, there is simply no excuse to be weaker as a team and banging on about glass ceilings as if we should give up now is ridiculous. The second teams end ambition and start standing still in the prem is the second they start heading back down the football standings.

What is unacceptable is that even at half time against watford most of the stadium was booing them off. We have turned into a right bunch of plastics. But that said, most of the fanbase are clearly unhappy with the clubs management this summer... and are absolutely right to do so. I dare say that attitude has probably highlighted to the board that they better make a good signing before the window closes... just like the increase in uproar after chambers went put the brakes on player sales. Fans who sit around with no ambition for the club are the most dangerous fans to have, if that becomes the majority view we will really have to start to worry as it removes all pressure from the board.

Its not right though is it. Whilst the fans should be patient and give Puel and the players time.... the fact remains that we were the 2nd best form team in 2016, almost got champions league and have had years of record revenues and profits. Against that backdrop we've sold 3 first team players, replaced them with 3 players who don't do the same jobs as well and ripped up the formation we've been playing for 3-4years despite the clubs 4-3-3 philosophy.

 

For all that people want to live in the past, there is simply no excuse to be weaker as a team and banging on about glass ceilings as if we should give up now is ridiculous. The second teams end ambition and start standing still in the prem is the second they start heading back down the football standings.

 

What is unacceptable is that even at half time against watford most of the stadium was booing them off. We have turned into a right bunch of plastics. But that said, most of the fanbase are clearly unhappy with the clubs management this summer... and are absolutely right to do so. I dare say that attitude has probably highlighted to the board that they better make a good signing before the window closes... just like the increase in uproar after chambers went put the brakes on player sales. Fans who sit around with no ambition for the club are the most dangerous fans to have, if that becomes the majority view we will really have to start to worry as it removes all pressure from the board.

The closest "top six" club to us is Spurs. Their income is around £100m more than ours. Where do you suggest we find that amount of money every year?

It's a serious question by the way. Maybe you have a sensible suggestion.

I'm relatively happy with transfer activity even if we don't buy anyone else. The club seems to be buying talented players an approach that has worked previously. Equally i fully accept players will go if they don't sign new contracts(Mane etc)

 

Difference to Koeman last year is he had built up a years worth of trust via the performances the previous season. A more apt comparison would be to Koeman's first season where we lost to Liverpool and endured an awful draw with WBA. We then won 4 in a row.

 

The problem is that we now an extra game in with no sign of that upturn. If he wins 3/4 in a row people's nerves will settle. I disagree with the sentiment that performances have not been bad. We were atrocious first half against watford. We were somewhat better second half but then rather toothless against 10 men. We then followed that up with an atrocious capitulation to a strong united team, which easily could have been a cricket score. That game showed a manager more akin in approach to Martinez rather than the pragmatism of Koeman which is a definite worry to me. That embarrassment was followed up by a limp lucky escape against Sunderland. I think it's quite reasonable for people to have worries about the radically different tactical approach of this new manager. I'm looking for signs of improvement, for signs of pragmatism/adaptability/incisiveness from the manager and not seeing it so far. I hope we have picked well but there's nothing wrong with people expressing their unhappiness and fears based on the poor performances this far.

Top post. There are WUMs and trolls for sure (which I'll park with the mods as an issue, although with their multiple log-ins/personalities I appreciate this make banning them for a long time tricky) on the site who aren't interested in proper debate and can understand positive posters being cross about that.

That said, I believe that you can be very happy overall with the ownership and running of the club whilst not being sure about Puel's appointment or his tactics and style of play. I wasn't keen as his teams in France tended to be ponderous, if solid, with the odd mercurial talent like Ben Arfa to liven it slightly. I'm happy to be won over on Puel but don't see the flexibility to win games at present and the formation is really blunting us in front of goal, in addition to Pelle and Mane going which I don't blame the club for. If you've got Austin there, play Redmond wide and feed Charlie some deliveries to attack or pick up on second balls, he's not a Mark Hughes-type forward who will hold it up with his back to goal.

I don't get the feeling either that the players are comfortable with what they are being asked to do either which is a far more important issue than a few posters moaning on here. Hopefully it'll click together but we need points on the board before the EL starts in the groups stages and Watford/Sunderland were ideal opportunities.

We aren't the only fanbase with some doubting elements - Palace fans apparently were turning on Pardew before Dann's late equaliser Saturday.

The closest "top six" club to us is Spurs. Their income is around £100m more than ours. Where do you suggest we find that amount of money every year?

 

It's a serious question by the way. Maybe you have a sensible suggestion.

To close the gap we need to increase income on the commercial side. Since 2009 Spurs have increased commercial revenue by 300% (Man City 861%). SFC have increased 50% in the same period..... Leaves us on the same level as Swansea.

Will we be able to improve this while selling our best players and losing our manager each summer? Unlikely

I said better than most, not anyone else.

 

Take Mane for example - I can't be bovered to trail through old posts but you'll recall he was given a hard time early on?

 

I was one of the few posters at the time that could see the potential and defended him passionately (I was called a WUM for doing so - go figure lol) anyway I stuck by my senses and we know how that went.

 

5 or 6 similar examples over the years, I just seem to be able to see the bigger picture I guess. Watching some games twice (I do this alot) might help? I will sometimes watch a game and then watch just one player - I am looking at certain things and will evaluate a player on a number of things including Height, Heading, Jumping, Bravery, Anticipation, Composure, Leadership, Stamina, Positioning, Technique, Work Rate, Tackling, Agility, Natural Fitnes, Personality, Vision, Ball Control, Flair, Dribbling and Crossing, Quickness or Jumping, Finishing, Teamwork, Passing.

Must do that a lot then ? on account of the garbage you post after allegedly watching a game...

Reminds me of the Autumn of 2004. 'All's Rosy in the Garden' 'No need to panic' 'Relax' etc...

Here we go Dalek always wanting to exterminate any sensible comment!

Although not to the extreme some have expressed their concerns, I don't think it's unreasonable for fans to feel a little deflated at the way the off-season/transfer window has panned out (so far).

 

After finishing in their highest ever (Premier) league position - three points off a Champions League place - qualifying for the Europa Cup group stage, signing the most lucrative kit manufacturing and shirt sponsorship deals in the club's history, on top of the financial windfall of the biggest ever broadcasting contract kicking in, Saints have never been in a stronger position to build on their progress.

 

And yet, far from strengthening the team and looking to push on, we've contrived to start the season in a weaker state.

 

All the optimism built up over our storming second half of last season (second only to Leicester in points gained in 2016) has ebbed away, along with the manager, coaching staff, best attackers and midfield man mountain.

 

I've no doubt the club know what they're doing and we'll possibly have a half decent season after everything has settled down again, but the dreamers among us had probably hoped we'd aspire to more.

This reads a bit like one of our other "distinguished" posters.

Can we put thus 3pts from Champs league to bed please? It'd only have been that if we'd taken the 3 points off Man C since Man C had a significantly better GD. 3 points better would have seen us miss out on GD.

Hi, I've been a long time lurker on the forum and have rarely posted, but given the ridiculousness of some posts I've read following the previous match I thought I might as well chuck my opinion into the ring...

 

There has been a sudden and rapid snowballing of negativity on this forum. This has been aimed at a board that, albeit with a few personnel changes, has overseen steady and near constant progress and success over the past 7 years and at a manager who has so far only lost one match in charge; away from home against a Manchester United side who have just broken the world transfer record for arguably the best box to box midfielder out there and signed one of the most talented and decorated strikers of all time.

 

Now, I'm all for people being able to express their opinion even if it goes against the grain or isn't all smiley and rosey, but some people really do need to get a grip.

 

Firstly, the club has now replaced each player who has left this summer: Juanmi with Redmond, Mane with Boufal, Wanyama with Hojbjerg and Pelle's departure was already covered by Austin. (I haven't counted Ramirez as he contributed as little to nothing as you could possibly get to the last season and spent half of it not at the club.) Only time will tell if these players will be capable replacements, but surely some patience is warranted as not all players settle at the same rate. I seem to remember Mane, Pelle and even Wanyama at points, all being heavily criticised or written off as flops on here by some.

 

Secondly, we have played three competitive games so far. Three. We have yet to win, but last season we won once in ten matches in the league at one point, with only one draw in there too; against a Villa side who were one of the worst ever in the Premier League. I know it's a new season, new team, past results are irrelevant to now etc., but what I think is relevant is the comparison between managerial treatment. Koeman was nowhere near as criticised as Puel has been and that run produced numerous poor performances far worse than any we've seen thus far in my view. I know he had earned the fans' faith by then after a strong season in charge, but surely Puel deserves a chance to get going at the very least? At the moment there seems to be a guilty until proven innocent attitude amongst some fans. I mean, come on, this barely even constitutes a bad run of form yet, let alone a crisis!

 

Thirdly, we are Southampton. We are not a powerhouse in the football world. Players will come and players will go, often over only a two season term. It's a shame, obviously, but it's the reality of things. Things are gradually improving, however. Whilst I think Pelle could have done a job for us for another season or two, he had slowly been phased out of the starting lineup by Long and would have been seen as below Austin in the pecking order this coming season. For me, we've lost two guaranteed starters this summer (Mane, Wanyama) as opposed to three the summer before (Schneiderlin, Clyne, Alderweireld) and four the one before that (Lambert, Lovren, Lallana, Shaw. Five if you counted Chambers as starting RB).

 

Finally, our performances to date this season have really not been as bad as some are making out. Heck if you look at the statistics alongside them you'd say we've actually been a bit unlucky. Yes I know lies, damned lies and all that, but it really hasn't been the 'Propaganda football' some have claimed; it's not like we've been having hundreds of pot shots from forty yards or Van Dijk and Fonte have been tapping it back and forth to each other for minutes at a time to boost our percentages. We've had solid moments of play in all three games and a few very exciting ones too where the midfield and attack have linked up brilliantly. Admittedly there have been some iffy periods but in general I genuinely believe we've been alright; not great, but alright. The potential is definitely there though in my view, it's just a matter of time before it's unlocked.

 

Anyway, this post is starting to become long winded, so I'll cut to the chase: Maintain some patience and perspective. There is no crisis yet. There's more than 40 games left in the season as a whole, 35 of those in the league so I think we might have enough time to turn it around. Let's not become a knee-jerk fan base and let's get behind the team, because creating a negative atmosphere might make some feel validated, but it is never helpful in bringing about good results that we all desire.

Les, are you going to try and sign Wilshere?

This reads a bit like one of our other "distinguished" posters.

 

Can we put thus 3pts from Champs league to bed please? It'd only have been that if we'd taken the 3 points off Man C since Man C had a significantly better GD. 3 points better would have seen us miss out on GD.

Four points then. Doesn't exactly alter the crux of the post, but I'd hate for anyone's OCD to get triggered by my cavalier attitude to pedantry.

3/10

WUM

,l

Hutch

 

Good post

 

Like you I have supported Saints for a long time and, at the early stages, never expected them to reach the heights of Division 1.

 

Then it was a long period of fighting relegation then concerns about the future of the club before the recent resurgence.

 

Problem is us supporters (particularly the newcomers) have an increased expectation level and any downward movement in the League position causes meltdown.

 

I am quite happy for regular mid table finishes, without any flirtation with relegation, plus a go at the various cups.

 

Like you I think it is unrealistic for us (and any club of our size) to challenge for the top places unless we get a mega rich Asian owner who is happy to chuck vast amounts of money at the club.

A lot of people are talking about having a go at the cups...but it's no coincidence that the best teams normally win the cups..it's the same as the league (there are always exceptions like Leicester last year) but last year Man U and Man city won them..and the team that got the furthest in Europe was Liverpool.

The year before was it arsenal won the cup and someone won the league cup..can't remember who but likely to be a big club.

When you weaken your team for the league campaign you also weaken it for the cups so dropping down to mid table means that we also have less chance of winning a cup- not a greater chance which seems to be some people's view?

I'm relatively happy with transfer activity even if we don't buy anyone else. The club seems to be buying talented players an approach that has worked previously. Equally i fully accept players will go if they don't sign new contracts(Mane etc)

 

Difference to Koeman last year is he had built up a years worth of trust via the performances the previous season. A more apt comparison would be to Koeman's first season where we lost to Liverpool and endured an awful draw with WBA. We then won 4 in a row.

 

The problem is that we now an extra game in with no sign of that upturn. If he wins 3/4 in a row people's nerves will settle. I disagree with the sentiment that performances have not been bad. We were atrocious first half against watford. We were somewhat better second half but then rather toothless against 10 men. We then followed that up with an atrocious capitulation to a strong united team, which easily could have been a cricket score. That game showed a manager more akin in approach to Martinez rather than the pragmatism of Koeman which is a definite worry to me. That embarrassment was followed up by a limp lucky escape against Sunderland. I think it's quite reasonable for people to have worries about the radically different tactical approach of this new manager. I'm looking for signs of improvement, for signs of pragmatism/adaptability/incisiveness from the manager and not seeing it so far. I hope we have picked well but there's nothing wrong with people expressing their unhappiness and fears based on the poor performances this far.

This is a good post. The difference for me is that this season the formation simply doesnt work. Under Koeman we had the summer of discontent... then went out first game and almost beat liverpool away. It was clear everything was going to be alright.

This year.... 65% possession along the halfway line or at 30yeards... then nothing but shots outside the box and hardly any penetration. It is worrying as we can't breakdown such stallwarts as Sunderland and Watford without first going behind. Big difference.