Fraser Forster - Whats Happened?

He's far from a complete disaster but he's rooted to his line, can't kick and doesn't inspire a shred of confidence among the defenders. I can't think of many matches (apart from the 0-0 away at Arsenal last year) where you really felt that he'd 'saved us a point or three'.

 

Everything else is very 'meh'. Shotstopping, distribution, one-on-ones etc. Nothing terrible but nothing to write home about. All in all he's a just a bang average keeper.

 

Still, Gomes, Valdes, Randolph, Fabianski, there's a lot of average keepers out there at clubs at our level. Mind you... Schmeichel, Pickford, Foster... there are a few others who would be an improvement.

 

Boruc in his prime was the best keeper we've had in the Premier League by far.

you mean, since returning?

as he is (nor anyone in the prem era) not a patch no Niemi

you mean, since returning?

as he is (nor anyone in the prem era) not a patch no Niemi

Ah, right you are. That is indeed what I meant.

I expect he's fed up being used as the focal point of every dodgy back pass having to then belt the ball up field and his confidence after the Crystal Palace mistake is rock bottom. If he is going to have to boot it long the player passing back might as well save him the bother and the risk and hit it over the centre backs. Boy did VVD looked hacked off last night.

Never seen him come off his line since he joined. He doesn't come for crosses and offers nothing in the way of a sweeper. He simply stands there allowing his defence to do the work. Nothing has changed in that department. The only good thing is that defenders know this is the case so there is no confusion and he doesn't make poor decisions - he doesn't make any decisions.

His kicking has been **** since he came back from the injury. He simply doesn't seem to have mentally recovered from what happened and as a result he doesn't set himself right and there is no fluidity to his kicking movement. He could get worse as confidence erodes. Perhaps we ought to stop passing back to him every two minutes.

As for his shot stopping, nothing has changed. It's just that shots are currently going in the corners rather than straight at him.

I think some of the posts in this thread are on the hysterical side and could only follow a heavy defeat.

 

I do, however, agree, that FF has not recently been the rock that very nearly became England's

Number 1. His kicking has been very poor and he sometimes appears static.

 

I am not an ITK but I have heard from a source close to his family that FF is not fit and should not really be playing.

 

If that is correct then I think the current situation is one of pragmatism by the club. We currently have no viable alternatives.

 

Having said that, I don't think his performances have been bad. Just not up to his normal standard.

Being injured would explain a lot.

 

As for his shot stopping, nothing has changed. It's just that shots are currently going in the corners rather than straight at him.

I think the opposition have been doing their homework. He's a big unit which has its positives but he lacks agility and is particularly slow at getting down to low shots.

I have also heard that he is carrying an injury. I don't know what that injury is but it must mean that he can't jump or dive to his left.

Look at the last two goals in the highlights, the 3rd at 16mins and the 4th at 17mins, hardly unstoppable; he's not really at full stretch for either of them imo.

https://southamptonfc.com/news/2016-12-29/highlights-southampton-tottenham-hotspur-premier-league

Remember how we were craving his return from long term injury? When he did our defence was impregnable for a long time.

He looks depressed to me. Something is not right upstairs.

Remember how we were craving his return from long term injury? When he did our defence was impregnable for a long time.

He looks depressed to me. Something is not right upstairs.

He's been really poor this season.

I was told about a month ago that that he doesn't rate the manager at all. [/color] I reckon he's not happy and this is coming through in his performances.

 

For me, he is slow off his line, not great with the ball at his feet and poor on crosses.

I could understand that for out field players asked to change position or player differently but he is a ****ing goal keeper its not like his job really changes no matter who the manager is maybe. Maybe Puel has asked him to actually move of his line occasionally or move when trying to save a shot....

I do wonder if he is playing with injury he wasn't this poor last season so I wonder with our number 2 keeper out if he is having to play with a niggling injury.

I do wonder if he is playing with injury he wasn't this poor last season so I wonder with our number 2 keeper out if he is having to play with a niggling injury.

has to be, he is better than what we are seeing.

If McCarthy is back in training, you have to think Forster will get a break for the FA Cup game at least

I do wonder if he is playing with injury he wasn't this poor last season so I wonder with our number 2 keeper out if he is having to play with a niggling injury.

I think its just a confidence issue, you can see his legs almost shake when somebody passes the ball back to him and he like almost panics cause his timing of hitting the ball is totally off.

I could understand that for out field players asked to change position or player differently but he is a ****ing goal keeper its not like his job really changes no matter who the manager is maybe. Maybe Puel has asked him to actually move of his line occasionally or move when trying to save a shot....

It's funny how all the posts that quote players feelings ,always seem back up the posters views on the manager .

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Same with jwp he needs to show some agression in his game and start using that giant frame of his to command his box !

Joint second highest clean sheets. I suppose most want a 4-3 win every week.

Joint second highest clean sheets. I suppose most want a 4-3 win every week.

I think the clean sheets are more to do with the defence in front of him, according to this we are the 2nd best team behind Man U for restricting shots per game on our goal.

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/4311/Stages/9155/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2014-2015

A poor touch for the Palace Goal, and some iffy kicking, but overall, whats the Problem? Cant see there being one tbh.

Another case of unnecessary hysteria, for the sake of me thinks.

A poor touch for the Palace Goal, and some iffy kicking, but overall, whats the Problem? Cant see there being one tbh.

Another case of unnecessary hysteria, for the sake of me thinks.

Yep the need for scapegoat mate...

The only way he will get back in the favour with some is if he makes wordlie saves to every shot..

Said to my mate Wednesday night, at least it's only the goalie who has acquired a slice.

I think the clean sheets are more to do with the defence in front of him, according to this we are the 2nd best team behind Man U for restricting shots per game on our goal.

 

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/4311/Stages/9155/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2014-2015

Yep, I think this is it. Just some statistics - going on the Premier League Fantasy Football stats on 'Saves', Forster has saved fewer shots than any other keeper that has played the majority of the season (Randolph & Hennessey, for example, have a similar number), with 28.

Bravo & Lloris have 30 and 34 respectively, but then Spurs have only conceded 13.

I know that stats can be misleading, and it's worth noting that a save could be from a speculative 30 yard effort that bounces towards the throat of the goal, but it still gives an indication that the reason we're keeping clean sheets is more to do with preventing shots on goal in the first place than any goalkeeping heroics.

I still think the problem lays with the goalkeeping coach. Frazer has a massive advantage of height and bulk, he should be taking the crosses and I suspect most forwards will get out of his way rather than be smashed by him.

Perhaps watching Pat jennings as a kid and the likes of Schmichael and Grobbelaar may skew my opinion.

I do understand that Grobellar was reckless at times but Liverpool made sure they had defenders on the line when he dominated.

Watson should be working on dominating the area, but as he was a small keepe he probably never left his line as he didnt want his hair to get ruffled

A poor touch for the Palace Goal, and some iffy kicking, but overall, whats the Problem? Cant see there being one tbh.

Another case of unnecessary hysteria, for the sake of me thinks.

Agreed. Kicking has gone to pot since injury, nothing else has changed.

http://freshsaints.com/fraser-forster-questions-need-to-be-asked-and-answered/

Don't know who Aidan Small is, but this pretty much sums up the current situation.

People have been giving him stick for his kicking. Which hasn't been great, but many overlook the difficult way some of them have come back to him, especially those at pace on to his left foot that need to be dealt with quickly. Apart from that I see little wrong with his game and some people seem to just be looking for scapegoats anytime we lose.

People have been giving him stick for his kicking. Which hasn't been great, but many overlook the difficult way some of them have come back to him, especially those at pace on to his left foot that need to be dealt with quickly. Apart from that I see little wrong with his game and some people seem to just be looking for scapegoats anytime we lose.

the ball being passed back to a professional footballer, generally on the ground...must be tricky

I think he can be rightly criticised for his kicking god knows Kelvin got plenty of stick for it. Professional keepers should be able to kick properly when he gets it wrong he puts the whole team under pressure.

If I'm honest I'd rather we didn't keep giving it to FF to punt up field anyway we don't have the players to win the ball in the air and hold it up so we just give possession back to the oppostion 9 times out of 10. I'd rather we played the ball up the pitch which we are capable of doing very well at times.

Been saying for a little while now that Forsters development was significantly hindered by his recent (knee?) injury. Prior to that he was not great at commanding his box, but most other attributes were reasonably sound. Now most elements of his game are not great - no command of his box still, statue like with no mobility to save and distribution extremely poor (not just his kicking accuracy, but the time it takes for him to move the ball upfield). My view is he's damaged goods, but the club need him in the shop window to be able to sell-him, although it has to be said, there's no talk of any big clubs showing interest in him and there's a reason for that.

FF never seems very agile to me. Big lad but like a big plank. Not sure if he is unfit as commented above.

People have been giving him stick for his kicking. Which hasn't been great, but many overlook the difficult way some of them have come back to him, especially those at pace on to his left foot that need to be dealt with quickly. Apart from that I see little wrong with his game and some people seem to just be looking for scapegoats anytime we lose.

Absolute bolleaux. They have been perfectly adequate back passes, but he either controls it onto his 'weaker' left foot to kick, or rushes it first time and fluffs it. He's just not very comfortable kicking.

And it's clearly not a scapegoat issue, somethings not right with him at the moment. Being a 6ft 7inch goalkeeper that has no presence is a significant achievement.

the ball being passed back to a professional footballer, generally on the ground...must be tricky

Absolute bolleaux. They have been perfectly adequate back passes, but he either controls it onto his 'weaker' left foot to kick, or rushes it first time and fluffs it. He's just not very comfortable kicking.

 

And it's clearly not a scapegoat issue, somethings not right with him at the moment. Being a 6ft 7inch goalkeeper that has no presence is a significant achievement.

It appears you both have English comprehension problems, read what I said word for word again.

It appears you both have English comprehension problems, read what I said word for word again.

Just did, turns out I can read perfectly well thanks.

People have been giving him stick for his kicking. Which hasn't been great, but many overlook the difficult way some of them have come back to him, especially those at pace on to his left foot that need to be dealt with quickly. Apart from that I see little wrong with his game and some people seem to just be looking for scapegoats anytime we lose.

That's garbage. There's actually nothing right with his game. He doesn't come for crosses, he doesn't dominate his box, his distribution is beyond abysmal and he isn't making saves.

The goal conceded at Crystal Palace summed him up. He just isn't a natural footballer. To go to kick the ball and allow your standing foot to make contact first is the sort of thing you see at Sunday league football, but here is FF doing it in the PL. and he got away with it again against Spurs when a similar thing happened. The reason he always looks so awkward kicking the ball is because it actually IS awkward for him to kick the ball. It's embarassing

Either our girl keeping coach doesn't know how to coach kicking or coming for a cross or Forster is crap....

One has to go! Which is it Puel????

One or the other ? ????????

In any other industry a change would be made .... Puel seems now to be a bit of s bottler .....

Many people are rightly asking questions ..... Can Puel answer the growing calls for answers ?

I did like him but starting to have doubts. .

If we play deep again and Forster plays against WBA then I will be asking him to resign ...

It's really simple. Out of form or not, scapegoat for the latest defeat or not. Forster doesn't command his area. Never has. There really can't be much debate about this?

For his own development this is something he is going to have to address sooner rather than later.

People have been giving him stick for his kicking. Which hasn't been great, but many overlook the difficult way some of them have come back to him, especially those at pace on to his left foot that need to be dealt with quickly. Apart from that I see little wrong with his game and some people seem to just be looking for scapegoats anytime we lose.

Nonsense from you as per usual.

Swap the name Forster for Boruc or Gazzanigga how would the performances be judged ?

I think the price tag and "england squad" goalie insulates him from the same sort of grief that the above 2 get as people want to believe that the people who know about this sort of stuff and have forked out the money know better, but to be honest I just see a big capable goalie.

People have been giving him stick for his kicking. Which hasn't been great, but many overlook the difficult way some of them have come back to him, especially those at pace on to his left foot that need to be dealt with quickly. Apart from that I see little wrong with his game and some people seem to just be looking for scapegoats anytime we lose.

As I have said before, it's the most technically demanding position on the pitch and without doubt one drill that even Semi Pro goalkeepers practice would be dealing with different and difficult back passes, so I can't believe Forster has not done this. If you see little wrong with the rest of his game then all I can say is that you clearly have not played in that position or have no appreciation on the art of goalkeeping because believe me there is a lot wrong with Fraser's game at the moment.

Not scapegoating at all, oh and before you get on your high horse and dismissive, one of the posters you suggested didn't read your initial post well enough, was an academy goalkeeper and played football at a high level so I would suggest knows what he's talking about!

In any other industry a change would be made .... Puel seems now to be a bit of s bottler .....

Many people are rightly asking questions ..... Can Puel answer the growing calls for answers ?

I did like him but starting to have doubts. .

If we play deep again and Forster plays against WBA then I will be asking him to resign ...

Puels a bottler for not dropping England's number 2 and replacing him with an old has been, or a nipper. FFS , what's the matter with you?

" I will be asking him to resign " . Lol

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People have been giving him stick for his kicking. Which hasn't been great, but many overlook the difficult way some of them have come back to him, especially those at pace on to his left foot that need to be dealt with quickly. Apart from that I see little wrong with his game and some people seem to just be looking for scapegoats anytime we lose.

Sorry don't agree with this. I'm ok with Forster except for his kicking. We are a team that wants to play possession football out from the back yet we have a goalkeeper that is clearly and demonstrably uncomfortable with the ball at his feet and more often than not cedes possession when he kicks it long. Even when we had Pelle to aim at, the ball all too often went astray or even into touch.

As for Forsters other perceived weaknesses. You might expect given his height and frame that he would come for crosses a metre or two beyond his 6 yard box but he tends not to. He's quite consistent in not doing so. This will surely have been agreed and worked on with the defence and goalkeeping coach and we do have maybe the best CB pairing in the league.

He seems reluctant at times to come off his line when one on one. Again seems quite consistent in not doing so so maybe it's been agreed with the coaching staff.

Bar the recent loss to Tottenham, we've had a good defence this season, and last season, with Fraser in goal. It's a sound defensive unit which works as a unit. But Frasers kicking is poor. There's no way of dressing that up.

You might expect given his height and frame that he would come for crosses a metre or two beyond his 6 yard box but he tends not to. He's quite consistent in not doing so. This will surely have been agreed and worked on with the defence and goalkeeping coach and we do have maybe the best CB pairing in the league.

 

He seems reluctant at times to come off his line when one on one. Again seems quite consistent in not doing so so maybe it's been agreed with the coaching staff.

Agreed. It's quite clearly a tactic of allowing CBs to deal with everything, which on occasions can have fans like me shouting at him to get off his line, but over the long term has been something that has worked well for us.

Swap the name Forster for Boruc or Gazzanigga how would the performances be judged ?

 

I think the price tag and "england squad" goalie insulates him from the same sort of grief that the above 2 get as people want to believe that the people who know about this sort of stuff and have forked out the money know better, but to be honest I just see a big capable goalie.

or, rephrased as "but to be honest I just see a big culpable goalie" ?

Sorry don't agree with this. I'm ok with Forster except for his kicking. We are a team that wants to play possession football out from the back yet we have a goalkeeper that is clearly and demonstrably uncomfortable with the ball at his feet and more often than not cedes possession when he kicks it long. Even when we had Pelle to aim at, the ball all too often went astray or even into touch.

 

As for Forsters other perceived weaknesses. You might expect given his height and frame that he would come for crosses a metre or two beyond his 6 yard box but he tends not to. He's quite consistent in not doing so. This will surely have been agreed and worked on with the defence and goalkeeping coach and we do have maybe the best CB pairing in the league.

 

He seems reluctant at times to come off his line when one on one. Again seems quite consistent in not doing so so maybe it's been agreed with the coaching staff.

 

Bar the recent loss to Tottenham, we've had a good defence this season, and last season, with Fraser in goal. It's a sound defensive unit which works as a unit. But Frasers kicking is poor. There's no way of dressing that up.

Not sure I buy it. Can't think of a situation where it would be optimal -or 'agreed' with the coaching staff for a keeper not to come off his line for crosses but always to defer to the CBs. Each case will be judged on the merits. It's even starker with 1-on-1s (where there are no CBs). All received wisdom says that the keeper should come off his line, make himself big, close the angle etc. Physics innit.

Les Reed in this article still makes me chuckle https://southamptonfc.com/news/2016-08-01/saints-sign-palace-keeper-McCarthy

He's out of form. That's it.

Then we should give McCarthy a run.

Then we should give McCarthy a run.

We can't he is injured and has been for a while.

We can't he is injured and has been for a while.

OK, didnt realise. Then considering its Gazza as back-up. I understand Forster still playing.

OK, didnt realise. Then considering its Gazza as back-up. I understand Forster still playing.

No Gazza is on loan in Spain.