Burnley 1 Saints 0 - Reaction

Puel has been dealt a bad hand in terms of goal threat, but he should also be doing better in terms of the things he does to get this team going.

Anyone at the game yesterday would have seen the players arguing and gesturing between each other. It wasn't just frustration - they clearly didn't what each other was supposed to be doing and for me that is coaching. Whether you like Puel or not, that is on him.

In terms of performances I thought Hojbjerg grew into the game and Tadic was better than others on here said he was but he's working with absolute muck up front and he did his best work with the full backs.

Redmond and JWP had games they would rather forget. Redmond awful with the ball and JEP ineffective with and without it.

The subs weren't very good and as the game went on we got more disjointed which again for me is a coaching issue - we need to be controlled in the way we do things so if we're pushing for a goal we need to do it in a way that shows everyone knows what they are doing rather than it turn into a sunday league game (which it did).

It's pretty embarrassing for one of our tactics to be to shove VVD up front and even more embarrassing that when we do we look better.

There were boos at the end and VVD stormed off on his own ahead of everyone else on the pitch. If any of you think all is well in the camp then you are blind.

Meh, just seen the highlights, such as they were.

 

I can't see how anybody can blame Forster for that goal, there was enough of a deflection to put the shot past him but the wall could have been more solid.

 

Apart from that they didn't show any clear-cut chances for us and even at the end when Sims cut the ball back there were five defenders in the box and only a couple of Saints players out on the fringes.

 

Not hungry enough.

We were set up tactically pretty well, certainly better than many of last seasons away nightmares I witnessed in person. The difference is Mane or Pelle would grab us a goal and Forster was a decent keeper. Make no mistake, he cost us again today. Long & Tadic simply weren't good enough and in Tadics case didn't look like he tried enough. JWP average again. PEH poor first half, but I thought he was ok second. Yoshida did well and VvD obviously head and shoulders above anyone on the pitch.

 

As for JRod not starting. Bearing in mind his injury record it would be sheer madness to run him into the ground before Liverpool. That needs to be our focus , our sole aim. Personally, I'd have left him out today, given him a run Weds against Norwich then a weeks rest (so obviously leaving him out against Leicester) before unleashing him at Anfield. The proof of the pudding will be decided at the end of the season. If he's as he is now, and then subsequently ready for a full preseason , then Puels managed him really well IMO . Puel has shown that he is perfectly willing to play certain players week in week out. Do people really think he believes JRod capable of staying injury free and would benefit from constantly playing, but drops him for Long anyway.He can see what we can see, and I'm sure there's nothing he'd like better than to have JRod join VvD, OR & Redmond in playing every week. Doesn't show the strength of the man that he's looking after his and the clubs long term interests, rather than over playing him for selfish short term gain.

 

 

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Good post. You and several other posters have hit the nail on the head. Puel is not completely to blame and often his tactics have helped us to better than the opponent not restrict us. It's more abut the lack of quality in forward areas holding us back. Also some of his rotation makes a lot of sense.

We play well one game and then Puel ensures all that is undone by changing the team and sticking the players who played well on the bench. He's an idiot unfortunately, and anyone who is still defending him is nothing but a troll.

My name's Micky, I'm a troll. Jesus, this place really is poison these days.

Is there the same short sighted bigotry going over at Paps place as well..?

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Come on, really? It was his side of the goal, he stands there and he catches it. He tries to second guess that Bartons going over the wall, so takes a couple of steps to that side. Because he's got the movement of a pillar box he can't adjust and recover. He was ****ing dodgy all game

 

 

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Catches it?

What complete and utter ******. If you had watched the game you would have seen that we played well and created plenty of chances ......but guess that doesn't fit with your agenda.

 

As Duckhunter says, Forster was not good and did not inspire confidence. And he messed up at the free kick.....taking 2 steps behind the wall: if he had stayed in place it was a reasonably straightforward save.

I don't have an agenda.

The free kick was deflected. Most keepers would have had a problem with it. Are you saying that the correct place to stand is not where you expect the ball to go but where you expect it to be deflected to? The real question is why it went through the wall at all.

Bought overseas i assume? As it was the Premiership until 2007, unless its a bumper sticker from the future?

It does have Premiership on it

Few Saints fans were singing "Liebherr out, Chinese in" at the game, f**k sake

I don't have an agenda.

 

The free kick was deflected. Most keepers would have had a problem with it. Are you saying that the correct place to stand is not where you expect the ball to go but where you expect it to be deflected to? The real question is why it went through the wall at all.

But that has always been the case. He isn't quick on his feet. He is a big lump that gets in the way of things, which is a fine attribute, but he doesn't stop much that is outside his arc, his footwork when kicking has gone wrong since the bad injury, he ihas always been stuck on his line and now with confidence a little low his handling has looked patchy. A return of confidence will fix some things but not all. Having said all that we have. Made a huge investment in him, so he is going nowhere.

the wall was four players, it went to the right of the wall where three other players were standing including a Burnley player. The deflection was Forsters undoing, no doubt about it, but that said his limitations, ie not being very nimble are being shown up. He looked incredibly slow to adjust as it flew past him.

 

But that has always been the case. He isn't quick on his feet. He is a big lump that gets in the way of things, which is a fine attribute, but he doesn't stop much that is outside his arc, his footwork when kicking has gone wrong since the bad injury, he ihas always been stuck on his line and now with confidence a little low his handling has looked patchy. A return of confidence will fix some things but not all. Having said all that we have. Made a huge investment in him, so he is going nowhere.

So basically any free kick artist who can get the ball to just brush off one of his own players in the wall can score without problem against Forster. Thought that the bounce and rebound undid Forster myself and the step to his right really didn't help. Now if Barton had swung it into the top corner Forster would probably have made a miracle save, juyst doesn't seem to get down quickly at all the days.

So basically any free kick artist who can get the ball to just brush off one of his own players in the wall can score without problem against Forster. Thought that the bounce and rebound undid Forster myself and the step to his right really didn't help. Now if Barton had swung it into the top corner Forster would probably have made a miracle save, juyst doesn't seem to get down quickly at all the days.

Forster has a touch of what Joe Hart had.

Its amazing what a goalkeeping coach can do to you?

Thought we did ok to be honest. The defence looked pretty comfortable with Bertrand providing a decent threat. VVD was class all the way through and Romeu was immence, even with the conceded free kick. Forster looked shaky, dropped a couple of balls and was at fault for the goal. Midfield two of JWP and PEH don't drive forward as much as a Davis and even Clasie give you. Redmond is a bit wasteful, but at least runs at players. On another day we'd be walking away away with a solid 2-0 win and delighted about 3 points against a strong at home Burnley side.

Puel has his faults, yesterday wasn't one of them.

Few Saints fans were singing "Liebherr out, Chinese in" at the game, f**k sake

I hope it was ironic, but somehow doubt it...

Few Saints fans were singing "Liebherr out, Chinese in" at the game, f**k sake

Pathetic.

Centre backs cover nowhere near the same amount of distance as the rest of the side, it's not rocket science!

Whatever people say there is no doubt, as has been obvious since September, that we need strengthening in a few key positions.

If we don't then I would suggest that the lack of investment by the current board means a sale on the way.

A real gamble IMO.

Whatever people say there is no doubt, as has been obvious since September, that we need strengthening in a few key positions.

 

If we don't then I would suggest that the lack of investment by the current board means a sale on the way.

 

A real gamble IMO.

the "board" as you call it doesn't have the money to invest as our accounts are pretty balanced. The owner is the one who could, in theory, invest but she doesn't want to, Ralph told us that 18 months or so ago.

the "board" as you call it doesn't have the money to invest as our accounts are pretty balanced. The owner is the one who could, in theory, invest but she doesn't want to, Ralph told us that 18 months or so ago.

Why not ?

Why not ?

Who knows,ask her.

Whatever people say there is no doubt, as has been obvious since September, that we need strengthening in a few key positions.

IMO.

Correct. Puel hasn't helped himself at times with over-rotation imo but the bottom line is we need strengthening.

So anyone who dares to criticise is a troll? Jeez this forum is becoming a Nazi state

you feeling guilty about something ff?

all I was saying, it was good to see a realistic view of the game for a change,if you wanna criticise,go ahead,

seriously,nazi state,sad geezer

Just like the Everton game, only one side looked like winning for the first 70 minutes and the we contrive to lose.

Can't fault the selection, other than rotating JayRod for Long. The Betrand cross in the first half summed Long up, he just stood still and watched it rather than attemping to geton the end of it. In contrast JayRod was a whisper away from giuding a similar 2nd half cross in at the far post.

I'm not a fan of this stand to one side and then step behind the wall move for keepers at free-kicks. I was right in line for Bales free-kick in Bordeaux at the Euros and the Slovakia keeper did the same thing. If he had stood still he would have saved it with his shins!

Im still convinced that our players if played in a formation that suits them would be fine for a midtable finish .

I don't think a new striker will do anything as long as Puel is here .

He was brought in to improve players . Its something he is unable to do .

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I'll add my two cents' worth having just got back from the game.

Burnley were functional: they could run, head, kick the ball (and often us) and were solid. Apart from that they had nothing, they really could have been a 3rd division side. I thought that, unlike Everton, they did not have an extra gear or two into which they could step and cause us problems. We have much better players (on the whole) but 'play by numbers'. For example we would stop a promising break to work the ball out to a wing to try a cross (to who? Shane Long? Against 3 or more defenders?) and the Burnley defence could simply have stayed in the same spot and just headed balls away all decade such was the efficacy of our play. JWP will never make a footballer; I have now seen enough to recognise that. Redmond I will give until the end of next season but if he hasn't by the beginning of next learnt to use his left foot just a bit I will probably write him off. Any tactic that involves putting VVD up as an auxiliary striker...well, words fail me. Sims looks to have a bit of something about him (skill, looks up, his brain ticks over, I think he's two-footed) and that bodes well but frankly I think that Puel should now go (as in in the Summer as he won't go now) and tend to think that the failings are by and large his. When they did score, and it looked slightly likely because there seemed to be a problem with organising the wall I did not think (unlike Everton) that we would not necessarily not score but considered it would be unlikely given that we really were quite impotent. One annoying thing was that for that last ten minutes we did actually look as though we were prepared to take the game to them and had we forgotten about the obsession with using fullbacks to cross the ball and simply worked it in the channels we could have got more out of it. Apart from the goal, however, the game was very reminiscent of that against Everton: two poor sides 'kind of' playing bad football and the most entertaining thing was the charge made by Andre Gray when he eventually showed his lack of ability and got caught. Someone like Lukaku would probably not have mucked it up like he did.

My name's Micky, I'm a troll. Jesus, this place really is poison these days.

 

Is there the same short sighted bigotry going over at Paps place as well..?

 

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No. You should come over. Only one troll over there and he just gets pitied.

Good post. You and several other posters have hit the nail on the head. Puel is not completely to blame and often his tactics have helped us to better than the opponent not restrict us. It's more abut the lack of quality in forward areas holding us back. Also some of his rotation makes a lot of sense.

I really couldn't disagree more. Lose against Leicester and we could be in the dogfight at the bottom.

I really couldn't disagree more. Lose against Leicester and we could be in the dogfight at the bottom.

I think it will take a few more games before that happens because all the teams below us would need to pick up several points, but lose the next four and they'll be snapping at our heels. At one stage I would have said that was extremely unlikely but now I'm not so sure. We're only one injury or departing player away from a serious slump.

Makes me laugh the couple of people moaning about throwing VvD up front at the end . Sides have done this since time immemorial, yet it's wrong when Puel does it. Pathetic

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Makes me laugh the couple of people moaning about throwing VvD up front at the end . Sides have done this since time immemorial, yet it's wrong when Puel does it. Pathetic

 

 

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I think it's more the fact that he has to do it every game.

Puel has been dealt a bad hand in terms of goal threat, but he should also be doing better in terms of the things he does to get this team going.

 

Anyone at the game yesterday would have seen the players arguing and gesturing between each other. It wasn't just frustration - they clearly didn't what each other was supposed to be doing and for me that is coaching. Whether you like Puel or not, that is on him.

 

In terms of performances I thought Hojbjerg grew into the game and Tadic was better than others on here said he was but he's working with absolute muck up front and he did his best work with the full backs.

 

Redmond and JWP had games they would rather forget. Redmond awful with the ball and JEP ineffective with and without it.

 

The subs weren't very good and as the game went on we got more disjointed which again for me is a coaching issue - we need to be controlled in the way we do things so if we're pushing for a goal we need to do it in a way that shows everyone knows what they are doing rather than it turn into a sunday league game (which it did).

 

It's pretty embarrassing for one of our tactics to be to shove VVD up front and even more embarrassing that when we do we look better.

 

There were boos at the end and VVD stormed off on his own ahead of everyone else on the pitch. If any of you think all is well in the camp then you are blind.

And just think he (vVD) wont be in the team next year,still look at the positives after hes gone we wont need to feed any other clubs cause the cupboard is empty...........btw Stones was awful today against Everton

And just think he (vVD) wont be in the team next year,still look at the positives after hes gone we wont need to feed any other clubs cause the cupboard is empty...........btw Stones was awful today against Everton

Stones is in fact very overrated ..... Generally quite poor

I don't have an agenda.

 

The free kick was deflected. Most keepers would have had a problem with it. Are you saying that the correct place to stand is not where you expect the ball to go but where you expect it to be deflected to? The real question is why it went through the wall at all.

That's the way I see it, the wall didn't do its job. But then again, isn't it the GK's job to set up the wall properly?

Im still convinced that our players if played in a formation that suits them would be fine for a midtable finish .

I don't think a new striker will do anything as long as Puel is here .

 

He was brought in to improve players . Its something he is unable to do .

 

 

 

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Completely agree with this. Puel came and tried to fix something that wasn't broken. Why Les Reed went for this appointment when it was against everything the club had previously claimed it was striving to achieve ie continuity of a system at every level is a mystery to me. Whatever was behind his reasoning it clearly hasn't worked. We are disjointed, negative and not a cohesive unit where everyone knows his job and as has been pointed out numerous times the constant excessive rotation helps nobody bar our opponents. Add to that the apparent dip in team spirit and it is no surprise we struggle to win matches.

I really couldn't disagree more. Lose against Leicester and we could be in the dogfight at the bottom.

We could well be, but that doesn't mean it's all down to Puels tactics. Without talent a coach can only do so much.

That's the way I see it, the wall didn't do its job. But then again, isn't it the GK's job to set up the wall properly?

It's a joint effort but a wall is no good if it jumps out of the way of the ball.

It's a joint effort but a wall is no good if it jumps out of the way of the ball.

The keeper should never be beaten on his side. Even though it took a slight deflection had he been in the correct position he'd have saved it. Barton wasn't trying to get it over the wall and it deflected to the other corner. The initial shot was going his way. I reckon most keepers in the league would have made a routine save with that one because of their quickness of feet. Because Forster plays like he's got steel toe caps on he couldn't adjust and atone for his positional area.

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The keeper should never be beaten on his side. Even though it took a slight deflection had he been in the correct position he'd have saved it. Barton wasn't trying to get it over the wall and it deflected to the other corner. The initial shot was going his way. I reckon most keepers in the league would have made a routine save with that one because of their quickness of feet. Because Forster plays like he's got steel toe caps on he couldn't adjust and atone for his positional area.

 

 

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The motd taters thought Barton was trying to curl it over the wall to his top left corner, but mis-hit it straight into the wall. Barton said afterwards that it wasn't the best free kick he'd ever taken but fortunately ended up in the net, which strongly implies that he was aiming elsewhere. Personally I don't blame FF for that one at all.

After reading some of the comments above about the wall, I wondered if I had seen it wrong on the pixelated stream, because I didn't think it was a wicked deflection by any stretch and certainly didn't think the ball was going 'over' the wall. I've just found a replay now, and the ball doesn't even hit the wall, it hits the player standing to the right (as you look, think it's Romeu). Yes, the ball comes through a crowd of players, but it doesn't deviate that much from its original path.

I initially thought Forster was gambling on the ball coming over the wall into the opposite corner, but I don't think he was. Nevertheless his inability to get down to the moderately deflected shot is still a damning indictment of his poor agility.

After reading some of the comments above about the wall, I wondered if I had seen it wrong on the pixelated stream, because I didn't think it was a wicked deflection by any stretch and certainly didn't think the ball was going 'over' the wall. I've just found a replay now, and the ball doesn't even hit the wall, it hits the player standing to the right (as you look, think it's Romeu). Yes, the ball comes through a crowd of players, but it doesn't deviate that much from its original path.

 

 

I initially thought Forster was gambling on the ball coming over the wall into the opposite corner, but I don't think he was. Nevertheless his inability to get down to the moderately deflected shot is still a damning indictment of his poor agility.

Yes when you consider Forster's reaction speed to some of those shown by De Gea and Mignolet yesterday afternoon it's certainly not in his favour. Just seems to be off form just now. When you consider how he saved us time and time again against Arsenal a year or so back there's a world of difference. Then again we had a fit alternatve at that time.

Whole team was at fault a) not scoring b) fouling Boyd c) terrible wall; don't put all the blame on FF leave off him!

Im still convinced that our players if played in a formation that suits them would be fine for a midtable finish .

I don't think a new striker will do anything as long as Puel is here .

 

He was brought in to improve players . Its something he is unable to do .

 

 

 

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The formation is very similar to last year 4 - 3 - 3.....

Whilst we played a negative counter attack style under Koeman, we had players like Mane who could hit teams on the counter with Pace and was very unpredictable and we where more direct (get the ball to the Pelle and have mane / Tadic playing off him getting into the box)... We simply don't have that this year.

Disagree that Puel hasn't improved players.. Look at Romeu, Yoshida & Cedric whom have improved IMO.

I certainly question Puel's tactics at times and the possession sideways passing is not enjoyable to watch, but you also have to look at the recruitment in the summer which IMO, Boufal aside (who I believe will be a top player for us, just give him time to settle and adjust), wasn't good enough.

Im still convinced that our players if played in a formation that suits them would be fine for a midtable finish .

I don't think a new striker will do anything as long as Puel is here .

 

He was brought in to improve players . Its something he is unable to do .

 

 

 

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Henry would disagree with you. He has only been here a few months. Do you honestly think that it is something that can be done overnight?

Henry would disagree with you. He has only been here a few months. Do you honestly think that it is something that can be done overnight?

Redmond is not what we need and he never was . That money could have bought an actual skilled player from overseas .

No problem with him developing with us but he should be doing it in the Under 23 side .

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Redmond is not what we need and he never was . That money could have bought an actual skilled player from overseas .

No problem with him developing with us but he should be doing it in the Under 23 side .

 

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Lol, I'm far from Redmond's biggest fan but that's a stretch...

"Nathan, we'd like you to join us here at Southampton, you'll play every week... for the reserves".

Redmond is not what we need and he never was . That money could have bought an actual skilled player from overseas .

No problem with him developing with us but he should be doing it in the Under 23 side .

 

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you will eat your words. If he had a foreign sounding name many would be telling the world how good he is

I doubt it . He doesn't have anything special to make him anything exciting to offer .

If he wasn't Reeds pet project he wouldn't get a regular game . Just as he didn't at struggling Norwich.

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you will eat your words. If he had a foreign sounding name many would be telling the world how good he is

I’m equally unconvinced with Redmond - shows flashes but is more often very poor than good.

He is 23 in a few weeks and has played over 200 games.

Is he a forward that averages 1 goal every 11 games? or is he a winger that has 1 assist this season (29 games) and 2 last season (37 games)?

 

Is he a forward that averages 1 goal every 11 games? or is he a winger that has 1 assist this season (29 games) and 2 last season (37 games)?

I’m equally unconvinced with Redmond - shows flashes but is more often very poor than good.

 

He is 23 in a few weeks and has played over 200 games.

 

Is he a forward that averages 1 goal every 11 games? or is he a winger that has 1 assist this season (29 games) and 2 last season (37 games)?

with our forwards at present getting 1 assist is a frigging achievement. I stand by what I have stated and Redmond will be a top player for us.

people go on about what a good player redmond is

amazning that he is a virtual shoe-in for a side who finished 4 points from a champions league spot last season