This Forum

This should smoke a few out.

I maintain this forum is turning into a battle between the negative, moaners (bed wetters, wrist slitters) and the positive, rosy glasses wearers (happy clappies, head in the sand ostrichs).

When Saints lose the bed wetters come out in force for an hour and then usually a robust fight back from the happy clappers starts and the bed wetters are forced back to bed. I guess I belong to the first bunch but despite what the clappers allege no one from either side is any more or less of a fan, we just express ourselves differently. But what has become noticeable recently is the vitriol, which I have to say is mainly one way and that's aimed at the bed wetters. Some of the uber fans seem to think criticism of the club is a personal affront to their manhood and all sorts of unpleasant names are hurled about in a macho style. Instructions to "get off the forum if you can't say anything good at the club" is a regular cry. The chest thumping is almost primaeval.

Just after the game yesterday I tweeted that I believed the club to be poorly managed on and off the pitch since the summer (I stand by this view) when I got a really nasty tweet from someone I didn't know calling me all the names under the sun. it's hard to argue sanely with a guy who calls you a knob**** in very tweet. Later in the evening I recognised this guy as one who posts regularly on here. I have always respected his opinions, he posts some interesting stuff so I was surprised that he had resorted to such blind hatred just because I stated publicly on my twitter about mismanagement. To be hones tit was a bit of a worrying realisation.

I suppose it's the social media world we live in, but it is becoming really unpleasant on here these days, with so many just coming on to play the posters and not give an opinion of their own. I don't actually mind the name calling etc etc but what is unpleasant is the snide belittling comments by a few posters who do all they can do try and humiliate contributors who dare to have an alternative view. There is just no need. Everyone is entitled to their views but there again everyone is entitled to respect. I think the trouble is anonymity. A lot of the abuse would not be dished out if the disher's name was known to all. So many people hide behind that cloak, a lot of them cowardly people.

I don't suppose Steve would ever making this forum non anonymous but it wouldn't half make things a little more convivial. In the meantime watch to see which side throws the most personal insults and then wonder why it is mainly one way.

It will also be interesting to see what follows these words. Regards to all Duncan

This should smoke a few out.

 

I maintain this forum is turning into a battle between the negative, moaners (bed wetters, wrist slitters) and the positive, rosy glasses wearers (happy clappies, head in the sand ostrichs).

 

When Saints lose the bed wetters come out in force for an hour and then usually a robust fight back from the happy clappers starts and the bed wetters are forced back to bed. I guess I belong to the first bunch but despite what the clappers allege no one from either side is any more or less of a fan, we just express ourselves differently. But what has become noticeable recently is the vitriol, which I have to say is mainly one way and that's aimed at the bed wetters. Some of the uber fans seem to think criticism of the club is a personal affront to their manhood and all sorts of unpleasant names are hurled about in a macho style. Instructions to "get off the forum if you can't say anything good at the club" is a regular cry. The chest thumping is almost primaeval.

 

Just after the game yesterday I tweeted that I believed the club to be poorly managed on and off the pitch since the summer (I stand by this view) when I got a really nasty tweet from someone I didn't know calling me all the names under the sun. it's hard to argue sanely with a guy who calls you a knob**** in very tweet. Later in the evening I recognised this guy as one who posts regularly on here. I have always respected his opinions, he posts some interesting stuff so I was surprised that he had resorted to such blind hatred just because I stated publicly on my twitter about mismanagement. To be hones tit was a bit of a worrying realisation.

 

I suppose it's the social media world we live in, but it is becoming really unpleasant on here these days, with so many just coming on to play the posters and not give an opinion of their own. I don't actually mind the name calling etc etc but what is unpleasant is the snide belittling comments by a few posters who do all they can do try and humiliate contributors who dare to have an alternative view. There is just no need. Everyone is entitled to their views but there again everyone is entitled to respect. I think the trouble is anonymity. A lot of the abuse would not be dished out if the disher's name was known to all. So many people hide behind that cloak, a lot of them cowardly people.

 

I don't suppose Steve would ever making this forum non anonymous but it wouldn't half make things a little more convivial. In the meantime watch to see which side throws the most personal insults and then wonder why it is mainly one way.

It will also be interesting to see what follows these words. Regards to all Duncan

Don't always agree with some of your post however this post is 100% correct

I don't bother often coming on after we lose. Not worth it. As for social media, I don't bother with that. People who I don't care about (not least as they are usually pseudonyms) giving their opinions which I care even less about.

I think we all know the problems that we face. At the start of the season, while I knew it to be a risk, was prepared to see how it turned out. Now 20 odd games in, it is clear that it hasn't worked well, so from that point of view, I have to agree that the management have cocked up. A wasted season both in Europe and in the league. The former bothers me a lot more. The latter, I am more pragmatic about. We have come back to the PL and seem to think that we are "the best of the rest" - not sure why that should be so really.

Anyway, name calling is utterly pathetic. Intolerance of opposing views on here is equally pathetic. Maybe that reflects the general level of intelligence of the average poster. But then again, there are a few posters who post in a haughty manner which is equally pathetic.

FF a little bit of pot and kettle !! You have a few battles on here too

Other forums are available.

FF a little bit of pot and kettle !! You have a few battles on here too

Other forums are available.

True but this one is the best for inside stuff, and by far the most wide read. There are genuinely some very decent informative posters on here which I enjoy.

St Chalet posted about this a month ago and personally i think things have improved. I have no issue with passion from posters and I prefer to hear opinions and honest assessment, thats what forums are for.

If you simply wanted Saints news you could use the OS

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?57612-Drawing-a-Line#.WHtLMsunzqA

Sorry i called you a kn8bhead.

Maybe the forum could have two sections, one for the posters who prefer anonymity and one for those who prefer their real name to be known?

St Chalet posted about this a month ago and personally i think things have improved. I have no issue with passion from posters and I prefer to hear opinions and honest assessment, thats what forums are for.

 

If you simply wanted Saints news you could use the OS

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?57612-Drawing-a-Line#.WHtLMsunzqA

The forum police doing its job?

Sorry i called you a kn8bhead.

 

Maybe the forum could have two sections, one for the posters who prefer anonymity and one for those who prefer their real name to be known?

Not a bad idea

Any forum that allows someone called Dalek to troll year after year posting exactly the same thing is going to end up degenerating into stupid irrational arguments.

As for all being fans, I believe that to be true, however I think there is an element where people don't want to be proved wrong and having set their stall out as anti-Puel or Reed there is a small part of them who enjoys seeing us lose to further enhance their "look I was right" posts.

We've had some real let downs this season but things are not as bad as many make out.

Posters will have positive and negative opinions about subjects. That's fine, its when the irrational abuse and cyber-bullying kicks in that there is a problem. I saw the tweets last night Duncan, constantly amazes me that someone who has some decent opinions and can clearly articulate well when he can be bothered chooses to converse in that manner.

PS Twitter has a block function!

The forum police doing its job?

Trying to, its a little bit sad that a group of people, who generally support the same objective, can't discuss matters in a civil way. You wouldn't talk like that to strangers face to face, so not sure why folk see it as accepatble on a message board. The moment you descend to abuse you lose the argument. Funny that this place is a breeze when we are winning.

I repeat: abuse, personal spats and trolling will be dealt with.

The big question is, why do we even go on the internet to message people we don't even know about things we can't even change?

 

Think of all the other things we could be doing!

 

If you had a week to live, would you log on and argue with strangers and how a bunch of millionaires are underperforming?

No, I'd pick the last week in December, in Antigua.

I only stay anonymous because of work. Still pretty easy to find on twitter.

The second you start worrying about what some boring prat from Sholing thinks of you, you're in trouble.

Any forum that allows someone called Dalek to troll year after year posting exactly the same thing is going to end up degenerating into stupid irrational arguments.

 

As for all being fans, I believe that to be true, however I think there is an element where people don't want to be proved wrong and having set their stall out as anti-Puel or Reed there is a small part of them who enjoys seeing us lose to further enhance their "look I was right" posts.

 

We've had some real let downs this season but things are not as bad as many make out.

totally agree

there r good days and bad days with saints,many of us older ones have seen plenty of the bad.

we r not a bad team,silly mistakes and lack of concentration are costing us.

a run of wins would change the bad karma around he club at the moment and a new striker

I agree about the two camps thing; would go so far as to say some posters have accidentally become parodies of themselves! I quite often come on just to have a chuckle at some of the over-reactions when we lose a game, likewise at some of the over-reactions when we win a game.

At least it hasn't become as bad as ArsenalfanTV, which is basically a comedy channel with a football background at this point. Although it is a joke, the interesting, but equally sad thing is that it shows that despite it not being anonymous there is still a lot of vitriol thrown about by people who are supposed to be supporting a singular cause.

People on both happy-clappy and bed-wetter sides just need to keep the big picture in mind when shouting each other down and consider whether it's worth the aggro they're causing themselves and others. Football isn't everything in life, and if it is then you're in trouble as it's generally a bad ideato invest your happiness in something you have little to no control over!

I generally have some degree of interest whenever FF posts, and although not entirely agreeing with him on a few points, I can see a basis of fact running through his opening post. I post infrequently but read, usually with some interest, what the majority have to say. However I must confess to losing interest to a degree. The continual sniping and attempted one upmanship has become boring, in fact extremely so. This has rendered my enjoyment of this site certainly less now than it was in the past

The big question is, why do we even go on the internet to message people we don't even know about things we can't even change?

 

Think of all the other things we could be doing!

 

If you had a week to live, would you log on and argue with strangers and how a bunch of millionaires are underperforming?

Same is true about watching the football in the first place. It's all just a bit of fun/distraction isn't it?

Oh Gawd yes I do and I admonish myself for it afterwards but by and large I don't start it and at least I don't hide behind the cloak of anonymity.

I never realised "Fitzhugh Fella" was your actual name.

If people really wanted to find out my real identity, I'm sure they probably could.

I use my real name on twitter and post more or less the same stuff as I do here.

Although I regularly have 'discussions' with people, I've never abused someone, and I think the language used by some goes over the top.

At the end of the day, we all want what is best for Saints, and we should bear that in mind.

well we lost someone yesterday, maybe the biggest clapper here!

well we lost someone yesterday, maybe the biggest clapper here!

We must avenge his death #PrayForAlwaysSFC #RIP

Personally don't get how many sensitive blokes we have in here who can't cope with a bit on swearing.

I'm lucky not to be banned I'm sure but Chalet seems a decent sort.

We must avenge his death #PrayForAlwaysSFC #RIP

 

Personally don't get how many sensitive blokes we have in here who can't cope with a bit on swearing.

I'm lucky not to be banned I'm sure but Chalet seems a decent sort.

Its the abusive part of the foul & abusive language that is the problem.

Its the abusive part of the foul & abusive language that is the problem.

Can you not see Batman, Glasgow, Alpine invite it? Whatever people say about we all love the club but have different opinions bs, these guys definitely do not and is clear to see and it winds normal supporters up.

Can you not see Batman, Glasgow, Alpine invite it? Whatever people say about we all love the club but have different opinions bs, these guys definitely do not and is clear to see and it winds normal supporters up.

If his antics were limited to the usual suspects, you might have a point. But ALWAYS_SFC lashes out at everyone, even those whose concerns are genuinely expressed. Frankly he's too dim to know to pick his battles.

Can you not see Batman, Glasgow, Alpine invite it? Whatever people say about we all love the club but have different opinions bs, these guys definitely do not and is clear to see and it winds normal supporters up.

But to be fair while I understand how that lot wind you up, you should recognise that the likes of Pamplemousse and Lord Duckhunter do the same to the other side. It's how we all react when we are wound up that this thread is about. Some resort to abuse and name calling or snidey put downs. That's when it gets unnecessarily unpleasant

If people really wanted to find out my real identity, I'm sure they probably could.

 

I use my real name on twitter and post more or less the same stuff as I do here.

 

Although I regularly have 'discussions' with people, I've never abused someone, and I think the language used by some goes over the top.

 

At the end of the day, we all want what is best for Saints, and we should bear that in mind.

To be fair you are a civil poster

Can you not see Batman, Glasgow, Alpine invite it? Whatever people say about we all love the club but have different opinions bs, these guys definitely do not and is clear to see and it winds normal supporters up.

I dont insult, i dont get personal

99% of my posts over 10 years are about Saints or football generally

I take a lot of stick, i dont retaliate.

Some people simply dont like seeing and reading the truth.

I have no problem with anything that people say, but there's no need for any personal attacks or extreme language. An opinion can never be wrong no matter how much you might disagree with it.

It's a good thing we're all different.

I dont insult, i dont get personal

 

99% of my posts over 10 years are about Saints or football generally

 

I take a lot of stick, i dont retaliate.

 

Some people simply dont like seeing and reading the truth.

What did the police make of that claim?

Can you not see Batman, Glasgow, Alpine invite it? Whatever people say about we all love the club but have different opinions bs, these guys definitely do not and is clear to see and it winds normal supporters up.

I get very p!ssed off when these guys use the term LOL when we concede a goal, it's just like an away fan in the home end jumping up in front of you when the opposition score !

Fair enough to criticise the club if you perceive that things are not being properly managed but to start threads day after day slagging off the owner, the DoF, the manager, his assistant, the goalkeeping coach and specified players is surely beyond reasonable and implies that there is an agenda behind it !

In summary, I mostly agree with Duncan's original post but dispute that the 'clappers' are the main culprits !

All IMHO,

Dave

But to be fair while I understand how that lot wind you up, you should recognise that the likes of Pamplemousse and Lord Duckhunter do the same to the other side. It's how we all react when we are wound up that this thread is about. Some resort to abuse and name calling or snidey put downs. That's when it gets unnecessarily unpleasant

Lord Duckhunter clearly goes to games and is no way comparable to the guys I named. FWIW mostly sensibly posts about football.

If his antics were limited to the usual suspects, you might have a point. But ALWAYS_SFC lashes out at everyone, even those whose concerns are genuinely expressed. Frankly he's too dim to know to pick his battles.

I was making a wider point about abuse. Whilst Always_SFC clearly has short fuse but doesn't get to me like he does seemingly to others. I think we have exchanged insults in past.

I dont insult, i dont get personal

 

99% of my posts over 10 years are about Saints or football generally

 

I take a lot of stick, i dont retaliate.

 

Some people simply dont like seeing and reading the truth.

You really are the angel of the forum aren't you..? Always the victim, never the culprit.

Sent from my Hudl 2 using Tapatalk

You really are the angel of the forum aren't you..? Always the victim, never the culprit.

 

Sent from my Hudl 2 using Tapatalk

No i am guilty of a few things

Posted "lol Puel" after the AFCB goal - regretted that

& Probably guilty of repeating myself too much

Oh and i did steal a pic from the hotel website (Milan) and used it to accompany pics i took myself.... That seemed to really upset some

You get a kick out of rubbing people up the wrong way. Hence why you were nowhere to be seen after we beat Liverpool.

You get a kick out of rubbing people up the wrong way. Hence why you were nowhere to be seen after we beat Liverpool.

Take another look mate, I posted throughout the match thread and on the post match thread.

Perhaps youre a little less sensitive after a win and dont look out for my posts as much?

You get a kick out of rubbing people up the wrong way. Hence why you were nowhere to be seen after we beat Liverpool.

I agree with that. Trolls on both sides need banning. Heisenberg under his previous suodnyms of original Bournemouth Saint and Glasgow Saint has admitted to being a troll. He shouldn't be on here because it encourages those on the other side to hurl abuse at every poster with an opposing point of view.

Take another look mate, I posted throughout the match thread and on the post match thread.

 

Perhaps youre a little less sensitive after a win and dont look out for my posts as much?

Has your restraining order been rescinded?

I always get picked on by the happy clappers , They call me nasty names and i have came close to telling my mum a few times ! Ps everyone knows me as Simo

well we lost someone yesterday, maybe the biggest clapper here!

Has he jacked it in? If so no real loss for me, constantly getting at other posters rather than responding to the topic in hand. The constant squabbling ruins threads. Pamplemousse's approach to those with completely different views is far more constructive. As for the trolls, it's up to admin to get a grip on it and sort it out.

Maybe the forum could have two sections, one for the posters who prefer anonymity and one for those who prefer their real name to be known?

Or a thread where people could share whatever they're comfortable with about themselves. Like:

Hi, my real name is Dennis and I'm 38 years old. As my username may give away, I was born in the Netherlands. My forum position is probably somewhere in the safe middle between happy clapper and bedwetter. I don't have a Twitter account.

Probably is worth discussing but we all have the option to vote with our typing finger or fingers for those who type better than me. I do avoid logging on sometimes because I know the tone, know the phrases pretty much, that some posters will use on here after a defeat or a poor performance.

The forum gives the anonymity to those (I, of course include myself) who want to post their opinions, feelings, suggestions etc and I occasionally have a good look at myself when I voice opinions, criticisms, about how people who have spent their life in football gaining experience to be where they are in football.

What I do object to about that anonymity is that it gives a platform for those who are patently not Saints fans to set up an 'alter ego' that can post as if they are a genuine Saints follower...there aren't many and, in the past as with Barry whatever his pseudonym was, the moderators do the difficult thing and ban them.

Is Glasgowberg in this category...? I think that an interesting experiment that I don't have time or enough ability to perform, would be to filter the posts that are supportive of Saints to those that in some way undermine (and I choose that word carefully) a genuine Saints forum - perhaps he would like to answer? My gut feeling is that 90 -95+% would be attacking some aspect of the club, players, management or support? That to me is not what I read a Saints forum for nor do I think it should be acceptable to the many, in my opinion, genuine contributors. In my more paranoid delusions I imagine he's a skate having fun with a puppet name that he doesn't have to equate to his own affiliations but that's probably, possibly, maybe not the case.

I think that I accept that Alpine is a bit of a one-off...I feel pity (not that he'd crave it from a name on a forum) that anyone could have such a negative outlook on anything in life but have to accept maybe he finds some joy in the misery...it's a long time since I studied psychology....I do believe, for what it's worth that he is a Saints fan...just glad I don't have to be at a match where he is.

Batman is a wind-up merchant in his page persona...the opinions are not consistent enough to be taken seriously and maybe that's the way it's intended to be....I've experienced service life briefly a long time ago and know that weeks are lived through a constant barrage of mock/real abuse that means very little but helps the world go round...

Probably the biggest mis-analysis that I'll ever do but like I said...thought it was maybe worth discussing. My apologies for anyone who feels left out, I just went with three who were named and who had caught my attention presumably for the same reasons...like I say, we all have an option to be on here and what we say or do about it - to the moderators - I thank you for the opportunity!

An opinion can never be wrong no matter how much you might disagree with it.

That's demonstrably untrue, unless you're deliberately attempting to be ironic?

If you hold an opinion, and I hold an opinion that is the opposite of it, how can they both be correct?

I think the only person who was brave enough to share a pic was Alpine? He has then faced 2 years of abuse for it

I met Grantsaint (bought tickets for Man United v Saints) in August, top bloke.

Would imagine id get on with most of you face to face

That's demonstrably untrue, unless you're deliberately attempting to be ironic?

 

If you hold an opinion, and I hold an opinion that is the opposite of it, how can they both be correct?

Because they are both opinion, not fact.

In the eye of the beholder each will see their opinion as the correct opinion, not fact, but opinion.

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This thread is slowly turning into the string of 'comments' about named (pseudonym-ed?) individuals that the OP is suggesting we try to avoid. There's probably some psychological terminology for this, isn't there? Or is it just irony?

For my part, I maintain some anonymity due to my job and the expectations which come with it.

I do enjoy reading the differing opinions and my own opinion can change during the course of following a match - I'm frequently proved wrong, so I'm fairly open-minded, especially as I'm not the most knowledgeable about the club (haven't lived near Southampton since I was 16). 'Willing to learn', though. I try to skip over the string of antagonistic personal bs and look for the comments about the football.

Nevertheless, I've followed Saints for over 40 years and I have opinions, so I'll voice them if I feel like it. But (and it's an important one for me), I try to remain diplomatic. Insulting, inflammatory or taunting comments aren't smart and, quite frankly, they're not necessary on a written forum where posters get to consider what they're typing before clicking on 'post quick reply'. Football is an emotional game and joy, anger, frustration, etc. etc. are to be expected, but come on, people. Chats in the pub can generate misplaced comments, understandably (less time to think), but an internet forum? Really?

I will finish by saying that I think some posters on here do [deliberately?] misunderstand when a tongue-in-cheek comment has been made, as opposed to a strong heartfelt opinion.

I used to be all doom and gloom. Expecting the worst at every turn and lamenting every seemingly negative thing that happened to Saints. However, this negativity would often be misplaced and I'd be wrong a lot. The negativity would also ruin my day and sometimes ruin the days of people close to me. I found it spilling into other aspects of my life and I found I was not the person I wanted to be and who people wanted to be with.

In the end it seemed pointless to get so upset and negative about stuff the either a) didn't end up happening or b) happened and there was nothing I could do about it anyway.

I changed to a more positive outlook and it helped me in other aspects of my life such as my performance in sports (football, running, golf etc.) and at work (better productivity, more ideas, promotions etc.).

I truly understand where the "bed-wetters" are coming from because I was one. What I don't understand and what I think the forum could do with out are those that obviously support Saints but get their kicks out of winding up others. Those that post the same thing year in year out, those that cherrypick and massage data to try and stir up trouble, those that cheer when we lose and those that mock others. We know who they are, they know who they are, ignoring them is the best ploy but not easy when the team aren't performing well and getting wins.

Discussion is great as is respecting others with opposing viewpoints but some of the troll posts right after a team sheet has been announced or a goal gone in against us or a mistake made are unacceptable.