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Thread: Saints 1 West Ham 3 - Post Match

  1. #201

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    So is it permissible to use the R word now? Before anybody asks 'Yes" I was there; 'Yes' I stayed 'til the end.

    Bit of bother in the Itchen at the end just under the director's box, a few fans given it to Reed and a few stewards trying to stop them. Kat was there as well so she knows the mood music now if she didn't before. The natives are getting restless and who can blame them. It won't be Reed's fault 'though will it?

  2. #202

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    If players are not happy, why, we can all see there is a problem,

    You are playing in a team and all of sudden you first choice centre halves are not playing or replaced, would you have the hump....

    Its called Miss management, Les Reed needs to front up and explain what has gone instead allowing Puel for all of his faults to face the media

  3. #203

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Martini View Post
    We had 1.3 Expected goals, WHU had 0.5. The problem today was not the defending our creating chances. It was finishing and a bit of bad luck (their second). We've played some awful matches where we didn't create enough(Burnley) but this was actually quite decent. Over the course of a season these things even out, if we're lucky it will even out in the Cup final.

    https://twitter.com/caley_graphics/s...48824131940362
    Good post mate and brave on here

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    Quote Originally Posted by ALWAYS_SFC View Post
    Indeed, it's not good but tbh it was meant to describe the crying on here
    Perhaps I should have done some smiley's as some are clearly happy tonight
    Lots of booing at the game today. Where was the crowd anger being aimed? Les, Puel or the players?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmp View Post
    I believe it was on one of the pundit pages during last couple of days of the transfer window (Possibly Danny Mills) stating he had heard that Jay Rod was unhappy and looking at the exit. Also inferred something similar about another unidentified player - could just be the rumour mill but other things like this have come to pass?
    I too have read that article re Rodrigues but your post made it sound like half the team want to leave.

  6. #206

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Martini View Post
    We had 1.3 Expected goals, WHU had 0.5. The problem today was not the defending our creating chances. It was finishing and a bit of bad luck (their second). We've played some awful matches where we didn't create enough(Burnley) but this was actually quite decent. Over the course of a season these things even out, if we're lucky it will even out in the Cup final.

    https://twitter.com/caley_graphics/s...48824131940362
    Complacency personified.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Garrett View Post
    6 defeats in 7 more than justifies the sack in my book, regardless of the League Cup.
    Generally I am not one of those who believes in sacking Managers.

    However if rumours are to be believed that Koeman's job was under threat after the poor run of results around Xmas last year then Les and Ralph must be looking at what the Black Box can offer.

    In comparison this run of poor results and abject performances is much worse and the team look totally dispirited and demoralised

    I have a mate who put 50 on us to go down in December at 50/1 to pay for a couple of a few years season tickets in the Championship if things went tits up.

    Looks like he will be amongst those suffering watching the Saints in the lower leagues if this mess continues

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek2003 View Post
    'Sleep walking to relegation', who coined that phrase ?
    Someone who has repeated the phrase every time after a bad run of form for the last 5 seasons? Am I warm?

  9. #209

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    Quote Originally Posted by trousers View Post
    Someone who has repeated the phrase every time after a bad run of form for the last 5 seasons? Am I warm?
    Red hot, can we have a ignore troll button, it would save so much time but the list would be long

  10. #210

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    Quote Originally Posted by trousers View Post
    Someone who has repeated the phrase every time after a bad run of form for the last 5 seasons? Am I warm?
    Fair enough. But, the Board have been complacent for more than a year now. I suppose, a club like SFC finds success and failure in cycles. Maybe, the Board have always planned for the worst case scenario, by being financially bouyant should we get relegated. Clear the deadwood. Get young fresh players in and rebuild. Get promoted. Sell our best young players. Decline gradually. Get relegated but in good financial shape. Start cycle again. Avoiding QPR and P@@@@@y model

  11. #211

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    New manager before next game or we're down, simple as. I actually quite enjoyed the championship, premier league really isnt all its cracked up to be

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenridge View Post
    We've pretty much managed to prove that Koeman was right with respect to the kids. OK, Sims looks like he could play a part and McQueen has done alright when he's played but that's it. And Koeman has successfully introduced several of the Everton youngsters into the first eleven and also bought the likes of Lookman. He's seemingly not a bad judge after all despite what some posters and the club would want you to believe.
    I am not sure what the point of this post is. Even before Everton came waving their money around Koeman made it clear that he was not going to extend his contract. As we know from Strachan's time, having a manager that you know is going to leave is destabilising. Of course, whether we went for the right stabiliser is open to question.

  13. #213

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    Where do I stand? I don't rate Puel. I personally like to see a team play as a team because it is the collective spirit, tempo and ability that makes a team. Since the start of he season we have been encumbered by mass rotations underpinned by the best defender in the Premier and now we are regressing into a collection of individuals just aimlessly playing the ball sideways and backwards upping the possession statistics. 70% possession and losing as we have done many times is ridiculous. Our good results have come on the occasions we attempted to get the ball up to the forwards quickly.

    Chasing the game today two goals down with ten minutes to go we managed to play multiple passes in our own half, give away a succession of ridiculous impetuous fouls and hit a number of speculative shots into the back of the Chapel, demonstrating no plan, thought or composure.

    The real hole in the team today was Davis and JWP. They buzzed about but failed to defend or attack and slowed the game down every time they touched the ball. FFS there is more to a football game than just recycling or unloading the ball to literally anyone in a red shirt as long as it was unloaded. These two should have been substituted but were left on.

    Forster looks like a man that has lost his way and knows it. The back four isn't the best without VVD, but is just about good enough. Romeu is fine as a holding midfielder. If we are to continue with this 4-3-3 and I don't think it suits us, I would like to see Hojbjerg, Romeu and McQueen given a go in the middle. More bottle and bite with the ability to support the front three quickly. Gabbiadini is a shoe in and I'd give him Long and Redmond. Boufal and Rodriguez looked injured when they went off but if fit could replace Redmond.

    I'd prefer 4-2-3-1 or even 4-4-1-1/4-4-2 which I think suits us better. I think Romeu and Hojbjerg or McQueen at the base with Long up front with Gabbiadini and from Redmond/Boufal/Tadic/Rodriguez/Sims filling the wide places. I just think that suits the players better and would probably play less own half possession and serve the ball up to the forwards quicker and play with a much higher tempo which for me is all important added to earlier pressing higher up the pitch.

    Puel's low tempo, non pressing, slow own half possession is just neutering the forwards.
    Last edited by derry; 04-02-2017 at 07:32 PM.

  14. #214

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plastic View Post
    Win a cup and get relegated, I'd take that.
    Honestly would.
    Lose the cup and stay up, i'd take that.
    Honestly would.

  15. #215

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    Just watched the managers post match interview, He looks like he knows he's a dead man walking !

  16. #216

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    Sideways, sideways, back, sideways, back then lump the ball upfront for nobody in particular. Absolute ****e !
    Fonte knew exactly what they would do so briefing his new team mates and manager would have taken a couple of minutes.
    First 10-15 mins tend to be pretty good then the next 75 mins is crap, been like it nearly all season at home.
    Its rubbish football.

  17. #217

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek2003 View Post
    Fair enough. But, the Board have been complacent for more than a year now. I suppose, a club like SFC finds success and failure in cycles. Maybe, the Board have always planned for the worst case scenario, by being financially bouyant should we get relegated. Clear the deadwood. Get young fresh players in and rebuild. Get promoted. Sell our best young players. Decline gradually. Get relegated but in good financial shape. Start cycle again. Avoiding QPR and P@@@@@y model
    Not doing Norwich much good is it?
    We should be nowhere near relegation but we have a management team too rigid and reluctant to change tactics that don't suit the squad.


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    Quote Originally Posted by St_Tel49 View Post
    I am not sure what the point of this post is. Even before Everton came waving their money around Koeman made it clear that he was not going to extend his contract. As we know from Strachan's time, having a manager that you know is going to leave is destabilising. Of course, whether we went for the right stabiliser is open to question.
    Maybe you should have read the post it was in reply too. I made no mention of whether it was right or wrong for Koeman to leave / be pushed or whatever it was that actually happened. It was related to the criticism he got for not playing the youth as he didn't think they were good enough. He's been proved right and Puel playing them has demonstrated that they aren't good enough but Reed made it clear when Puel joined that he would be doing just this. Get it now?

  19. #219

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmp View Post
    Having witnessed a sustained season on season improvement and sensible growth over the past 7 years despite comings and goings we have now lost the plot.

    Yes Reed may have to bear some responsibility but this manager is not working and is totally out of his league.

    His tactics are inept, his rotation theory does not work and IMO he cannot communicate effectively.

    All the previous good work is being undone and if he is so great (as some seem to infer) and it's not his fault then we are in this position - why did the club captain want away, why are other players rumoured to be wanting to leave and why is he not getting anywhere near the potential from the squad?

    We certainly have enough decent players to fit into a consistent system that yields some reasonable results, even taking into account some injuries but where is the system, where is the commitment, the team spirit and the desire to perform not just for themselves or the fans but for the manager?

    I'm sorry but I have lost hope with this shambolic set up at the moment and really think we are in deep deep trouble - Puel should have gone weeks ago - 4 or 5 wins in the EFL (2 or 3 of them 1-0 and rather fortunate) does not equal a success.

    We need a change if we are to even survive this season - please dispense with this clueless idiot and at least get someone in who appears to care, wants to win and can at least inspire some confidence for the players and fans alike!
    Great post.

  20. #220

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    We take so long to negotiate for new managers or players.
    Need to swallow your pride Reed and get rid of Puel now.
    Take the three weeks to get a good manager in so we can start in March by getting us moving forward again.

  21. #221

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    Quote Originally Posted by davefoggy View Post
    New manager before next game or we're down, simple as. I actually quite enjoyed the championship, premier league really isnt all its cracked up to be
    Well, there's overreactions and there's this. Just remember dude, if Claude goes we get Eric Black while they find a replacement and none of us want that.

    We'll be fine though, our Liverpool performances have showed we have it in us.

  22. #222

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plastic View Post
    Quite looking forward to the championship tbh.
    At least the Chinese will ferk off!!! lol

  23. #223

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    There have been games this season that I have been hugely unimpressed with our tactics and style of play. The sideways passing takes any life out of the game. However, I really don't believe that is why we lost today. I feel people are reacting more to the result than the performance. My observations from today were:

    Gabbiadini looks an excellent acquisition and may well be able to hold the ball up effectively. He has quick feet and close control so the ball sticks to him and he can bring others in. Contrast that to Rodriguez, who was simply awful. The ball regularly bounces off him, he's ponderous and always turns into trouble. I'm not Redmond's biggest fan, and was disgusted with his last minute long shot, but he made a big difference when he came on.

    James Ward-Prowse is too slow to make a difference at this level. He tries hard but never quite gets there, and he isn't forward thinking enough to have much impact in the final third (although he did well to get a header in near the end). He's also not as brilliant at set pieces as people like to make out.

    Thought that Bertrand was arguably or best player today. Gabbiadini and Romeu were also decent. Davis was ok but can't shoot for toffee and we lose so much from not having a goal threat from midfield. We've known this for a long time.

    West Ham were not particularly good today - I certainly didn't see them "bullying" us in a more professional display until the last 20 minutes when they sat back on a two goal lead and we were tiring - just as Swansea weren't that good on Tuesday, but they were both able to score against us without working especially hard for it. This isn't because our tactics allowed them to cut us open at will, but rather because we have a handful of weak links in the team that cannot be depended on for 90 minutes. Stephens & Yoshida weren't too bad but they were poor for the equaliser. The second goal should never be going in but Forster is so slow, just as he was for Sigurdsson's makeshift volley, and the third goal was a bit lucky but nevertheless got absolutely no reaction from Forster who was rooted to the spot. Had Forster been in goal for West Ham at least two of our shots would have gone in.

    I don't disagree that our style of play could be better at times, and I'm certainly not convinced that Puel is the right manager, but I really cannot believe how many people immediately lay blame for today's defeat at his feet when we have glaring weaknesses all over the pitch, but particularly at GK, CB and CM. the spine of the team. Great. Puel cannot be held accountable for not having good enough players, unless it's for team selection.
    Last edited by mrfahaji; 04-02-2017 at 07:47 PM.

  24. #224

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    Quote Originally Posted by simo View Post
    Just watched the managers post match interview, He looks like he knows he's a dead man walking !
    his wife is missing france, lets pray he does the decent thing & resigns citing that as the reason

  25. #225

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    Does someone have a link to Gabba's goal?

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    I was at work today and could only listen on Solent. Would it be fair to suggest that we lack leadership without Fonte and Van Dijk and that those absences, plus Forster's poor form, give us the wobbles?

  27. #227

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    Very much so

  28. #228

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuncanRG View Post
    I was at work today and could only listen on Solent. Would it be fair to suggest that we lack leadership without Fonte and Van Dijk and that those absences, plus Forster's poor form, give us the wobbles?
    yup that & puels abject tactics & selection

  29. #229

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr X View Post
    yup that & puels abject tactics & selection
    Tbf that was the team I'd have picked

  30. #230

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    We were doing suicidal passes in midfield and defence.
    Never seen us give the ball away so much and we are getting worse and going downwards.

  31. #231

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    Quote Originally Posted by simo View Post
    Tbf that was the team I'd have picked
    I wouldn't pick Davis and JWP when you have Romeu spending a lot of time behind Yosh like today surrender midfield. But then 4-3-3 is stupid when you have a defence like ours.


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  32. #232

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Wayman View Post
    So is it permissible to use the R word now? Before anybody asks 'Yes" I was there; 'Yes' I stayed 'til the end.

    Bit of bother in the Itchen at the end just under the director's box, a few fans given it to Reed and a few stewards trying to stop them. Kat was there as well so she knows the mood music now if she didn't before. The natives are getting restless and who can blame them. It won't be Reed's fault 'though will it?
    Good if Reed was being made to face the music. He's been very quick to take credit at the expense of managers during the good times but radio silence now. Some limited chanting from Northam about him after the third goal. If this continues I can see the numbers swelling and matchdays are going to be uncomfortable for him.

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    I presume all of those who think we are not only in a relegation fight but also odds on to lose it if we keep Puel would be fairly surprised if I told them we are 33/1 to get relegated on Betfair? Probably get more than that if you asked for it...

  34. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuncanRG View Post
    I was at work today and could only listen on Solent. Would it be fair to suggest that we lack leadership without Fonte and Van Dijk and that those absences, plus Forster's poor form, give us the wobbles?
    Perhaps. A back trio of Forster, Yoshida and Stephens isn't going to instill much confidence. Centre backs at fault for first goal but they did improve. Stephens' distribution isn't great, makes a world of difference compared to VVD! However, while there are obvious obvious areas for improvement, don't believe all the comments on here about how bad we were. The second goal was a killer, but for most of the game we still showed signs of getting back into it.

  35. #235

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    Quote Originally Posted by East Kent Saint View Post
    As little of our game is usually shown on MotD can anyone tell me if the other 6 shots on goal (from BBC stats) were actual chances of a goal ? Like Liverpool at the moment we seem to have all the possession , more shots etc but less actual goals !
    Should've got it back to 2-2 then they scored. New man blazed a good one over. Yoshida should've headed but tried a ridiculous acrobatic. Couple of long range ones. Header tipped over. JWP free kick. If they'd had those chances they'd have out one or two in. So yes, reasonably good chances.


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  36. #236

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    Did Wham's second goal take a deflection? I couldn't see it clearly from the Itchen North. If so, that was two lucky deflections and a defensive gift.

    On the whole Wham were very average. The timing of their goals made a difference - first in equalising so quickly and then getting a second on the stroke of half time. We really needed to hold onto our lead and grow into the game as our confidence is so fragile.

    Game was lost in midfield. Romeu urgently needs help. Stephens lack of pace was exposed several times, especially for the foul that led to their second.

    Gabbi put in a promising shift, though I was half expecting him to start on the left and Jrod down the middle where's he looked brighter in recent weeks. Gabbi linked up nicely and showed clever movement, though he reinforces our slightly ornate style under Puel. Bertrand put some absolutely brilliant balls into the box that screamed out for a bit more power and aggression at the end of them.
    Last edited by shurlock; 04-02-2017 at 08:27 PM.

  37. #237

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    Once West Ham went 3-1 up, they took Carroll off and just strolled through the rest of the game.

    We were crap.

  38. #238

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    Quote Originally Posted by tisspahars View Post
    I presume all of those who think we are not only in a relegation fight but also odds on to lose it if we keep Puel would be fairly surprised if I told them we are 33/1 to get relegated on Betfair? Probably get more than that if you asked for it...
    We were 80-1 two weeks ago!

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    I missed the pre-match build up and just realised that Tadic wasn't in today's squad. Assume he's picked up an injury?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pass the Dutchie View Post
    Does someone have a link to Gabba's goal?
    http://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/2...-highlights-2/

  41. #241

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    I think the tactics are all wrong and have been most of the season, we play 4 3 3 but two of the front 3 play so wide all they do is get in the way of the fullbacks and contribute very little.
    i aso hate the way we pull everyone back for corners it just invites pressure.
    Dont think Stephens was too bad at all, but the manager keeps trying the same things that have failed again and again.

  42. #242

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    Somehow I think the only way Puel leaves, is if his misses does a Payet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek2003 View Post
    'Sleep walking to relegation', who coined that phrase ?
    Sound so like a really smug clueless and annoyingly repetitive ****-ass tiny-dicked troll ***** I know...

  44. #244

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    Thanks. Couldn't see the match today. That's a wonderful strike. At least something to hold on to.

  45. #245

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    We lack leadership on the pitch especially when the chips are down. It was evident after 3rd goal went in how fragile the team is mentally.

    Puel was to blame today. Formation and tactics total shambles. Players had no idea what was expected of them.

    Forster is a statue. Just awful. Defenders letting Andy Carroll get in on goal like that was an embarrassment. Shocking stuff.

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  46. #246

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimplex View Post
    This season has been an absolute shambles and it started in the summer. Manuel Pellegrini wanted to come here as manager. Think about that for a minute -Manuel Pellegrini, a premier league winning manager who also did a terrific job at clubs in similar stature to us in Spain wanted to be Southampton manager! But no, Les Reed in all his arrogance decided not to appoint him as he is 'not a tracksuit manager'. Sorry?? I thought it was the coaches who coach the players and the managers job is to decide style of play, tactics, does the press and has a big input in signings??? He also doesn't strike me as the sort of bloke who would be demanding players left right and centre.
    But anyway Les went for Puel - basically a yes man. He has no experience of managing outside of France, but will be grateful to Les for the opportunity to manage in the premier league he will go along with anything Les says.
    Our league campaign has been shocking, drab, negative. It could have been so much more. The less said about the Europa league the better!
    People may defend Les and Claude and point to the league cup campaign but what did we do realistically - beat a couple of premier league reserve teams. Yes, the two Liverpool games were great but even then it turned out to be a lot closer than it should have been!
    The defence situation is just a farce - nothing more can be said about that. Fully expect Gabiaddini to go the way of PEH - start out really promising but to have the creativity coached out of him by Puel and Black.
    What should happen now? If Puel had any dignity he should resign first thing in the morning. Ultimately no top manager will come in now, so hand it to Nigel Adkins u til the end of the season. Hopefully this should get all the fans on side, scrape enough points to stay up and maybe with a stroke of luck win the cup?! Then in the summer go all out for a top manager - Manicini, Pellegrini or even Silva. He has certainly understood how this league works , and he's only been here a month, none of this it takes time for a manager to get his ideas across that our players have been saying.
    excellent summary

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    Where's all this about Pelligrini wanting the job come from? And him not being a 'tracksuit manager'? News to me.

    (PS suggesting Nigel Adkins should return disqualifies you from being taken seriously on anything)

  48. #248

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    Totally depressed by today's shambles.

    We need a change of direction and ...I do now think ...that includes a change of manager.

    The one glimmer of hope today was that the new striker appears to have an idea where the goal is..... on the other hand he must be thinking tonight "what the fc*ck have I done? "

  49. #249

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Did Wham's second goal take a deflection? I couldn't see it clearly from the Itchen North. If so, that was two lucky deflections and a defensive gift.

    On the whole Wham were very average. The timing of their goals made a difference - first in equalising so quickly and then getting a second on the stroke of half time. We really needed to hold onto our lead and grow into the game as our confidence is so fragile.

    Game was lost in midfield. Romeu urgently needs help. Stephens lack of pace was exposed several times, especially for the foul that led to their second.

    Gabbi put in a promising shift, though I was half expecting him to start on the left and Jrod down the middle where's he looked brighter in recent weeks. Gabbi linked up nicely and showed clever movement, though he reinforces our slightly ornate style under Puel. Bertrand put some absolutely brilliant balls into the box that screamed out for a bit more power and aggression at the end of them.
    Seen one replay of since getting home, it looks like it takes a minor deflection but doesn't change path a great deal.

    Can disagree with any of your summary. How much of "what went wrong" would you put down to tactics/style? I felt it was more about individual mistakes and/or fortune (there were also a few times the ball didn't quite drop for us in the box), but given I agree with your points would be interested to hear your views.

  50. #250

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    We lost that in midfield, not agressive enough, neither in tactics nor in play. In fact, there was a lack of aggression in all departments. An extra 5% might have won us the match. Sitting back and ceding midfield, incomprehensible to me, meant we didn't get the ball wide enough, quickly enough, to attack their dodgy full backs.

    Gabbiadini took his goal brilliantly. Great power in the shot. He was looking for the early ball but rarely got it. Don't know if anyone remembers a newspaper interview with Romeu of a couple of months ago. He was saying what he'd learnt from Guardiola. He mentioned a piece of advice which was always to look for the long pass. If you look for the long pass you'll see both the long and short pass. If the long pass isn't on you have the short option. If look only for the short pass that's all you'll see and the long pass goes begging. How often this season have we looked long.

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