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JonnyLove
18-08-2009, 11:20 AM
http://www.championshipmanager.co.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.1088?PHPSESSID=55693dba475c8a66d7655f3cf ecf1822

As it says on the Tin. Issue being though who plays CM anyway

mdearlove
18-08-2009, 11:22 AM
If you want to buy Championship Manager 2010 you can get it for as little as 1p(plus £2.50 transaction fee) until 10th Sept -

http://www.champmanstore.com/shop/index?lang=en_gb

Pancake
18-08-2009, 11:24 AM
http://www.championshipmanager.co.uk...655f3cfecf1822 (http://www.championshipmanager.co.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.1088?PHPSESSID=55693dba475c8a66d7655f3cf ecf1822)

Well, why not.

JonnyLove
18-08-2009, 11:24 AM
Ha beat you to it
http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=15975

JonnyLove
18-08-2009, 11:25 AM
um
http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=15975
:)

mdearlove
18-08-2009, 11:29 AM
so 1st and 3rd place for you then ;-)

mine does have the link to the purchase page though!

deadpanmatt
18-08-2009, 11:50 AM
http://www.champmanstore.com/shop/index?lang=en_gb

Bargain!

Colinjb
18-08-2009, 11:54 AM
That's not right, surely....

Saint_clark
18-08-2009, 11:55 AM
That's not right, surely....

It is. It's a brave strategy. One that will backfire and see them go under.

Dark Sotonic Mills
18-08-2009, 12:03 PM
Only available for a limited time and then full price. Having said that, £2.51 is indeed a bargain.

Thank you Eidos, and Matt

Matthew Le God
18-08-2009, 12:07 PM
I'd play the demo first for free and see if its worth the 1p (it actually will cost you £2.51 as you have to pay adim charge of £2.50)

http://cm10challenge.co.uk/

Shockingly bug riddled and the AI is fundamentally flawed as shown by this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9HpiXYnHS8

The Southampton data is very poor. :D

JonnyLove
18-08-2009, 12:07 PM
You know we now have 4 threads abotu this same topic (see computer games)

JonnyLove
18-08-2009, 12:07 PM
The thing is though is CM any good? I remember CM4 was excelent but since then it's been FM all the way as CM does not support MAC's

Matthew Le God
18-08-2009, 12:08 PM
I'd play the demo first for free and see if its worth the 1p (it actually will cost you £2.51 as you have to pay adim charge of £2.50)

http://cm10challenge.co.uk/

Shockingly bug riddled and the AI is fundamentally flawed as shown by this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9HpiXYnHS8

The Southampton data is very poor.

Matthew Le God
18-08-2009, 12:09 PM
I'd play the demo first for free and see if its worth the 1p (it actually will cost you £2.51 as you have to pay adim charge of £2.50)

http://cm10challenge.co.uk/

Shockingly bug riddled and the AI is fundamentally flawed as shown by this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9HpiXYnHS8

The Southampton data is very poor :D

Smirking_Saint
18-08-2009, 12:09 PM
Really ?? Awesome, so what do i do, downloaded when it is out ??

Pancake
18-08-2009, 12:10 PM
There is a forum for this.

Smirking_Saint
18-08-2009, 12:11 PM
But it cost's 2.51, surely it is still worth it :) Sorry matt legod

mattbrennan
18-08-2009, 12:13 PM
I'd play the demo first for free and see if its worth the 1p (it actually will cost you £2.51 as you have to pay adim charge of £2.50)

http://cm10challenge.co.uk/

Shockingly bug riddled and the AI is fundamentally flawed as shown by this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9HpiXYnHS8

The Southampton data is very poor :D

Nethertheless at £2.51 people will buy it. Oh and of course there has never been any bugs in any Football Manager demos you save them all for the final version!:rolleyes:

JonnyLove
18-08-2009, 12:14 PM
The bigest issue is that since SI left (after Cm4) is it any good and it also only works on a PC

Matthew Le God
18-08-2009, 12:16 PM
But it cost's 2.51, surely it is still worth it :) Sorry matt legod

Just because it is cheap doesn't make it value for money.

Play the demo that I linked to and decide yourself.

Matthew Le God
18-08-2009, 12:23 PM
I remember CM4 was excelent but since then it's been FM all the way as CM does not support MAC's

That is because between 1992 to 2004 CM was made by SI

THEN

From 2004 onwards CM was made by BGS studios.

From 2004 onwards SI used the game code from previous CM games and all its previous experience to make Football Manager.

JonnyLove
18-08-2009, 12:36 PM
That is because between 1992 to 2004 CM was made by SI

THEN

From 2004 onwards CM was made by BGS studios.

From 2004 onwards SI used the game code from previous CM games and all its previous experience to make Football Manager.

Yes we all know the story. So the questions is mister FM is SI going to be doing the same or are they going to cause as many issues as last year. (plus I would like to play the game without a CD on my Mac and no internet connection if you can sort that for me I'll be happy)

St Marco
18-08-2009, 12:38 PM
Can i just say without trying to sound harsh it is slightly ironic that you say CM is bug ridden etc... FM09 is a complete bug fest and for about 80% of the people who bought it could not even get it to install right.....So think you should probably be quiet on that one mate :)

Matthew Le God
18-08-2009, 12:40 PM
Yes we all know the story. Alot of people still don't tbh

So the questions is mister FM is SI going to be doing the same or are they going to cause as many issues as last year. No SI won't do the same and I can't see CM being around much longer after this as they are reducing income massively doing this

Hope that helps

Matthew Le God
18-08-2009, 12:42 PM
Can i just say without trying to sound harsh it is slightly ironic that you say CM is bug ridden etc... FM09 is a complete bug fest and for about 80% of the people who bought it could not even get it to install right.....So think you should probably be quiet on that one mate :)

Play the CM demo I linked to and judge for yourself. These are fundamental flaws to the game in CM not just small easily fixable bugs.

St Marco
18-08-2009, 12:50 PM
Play the CM demo I linked to and judge for yourself. These are fundamental flaws to the game in CM not just small easily fixable bugs.

Again can i just say Football Manager 2009 was a complete a total bugfest. And in the games world/marketing world is now the blueprint of how not to release a game.
Championship manager 10 will have more bugs then the australian outback. But that does not make FM better or any less buggy as you try to imply.

JonnyLove
18-08-2009, 12:57 PM
Its a good point (both are buggy) and the issues of installation was one reason I didn't upgrade to FM09. But as I say if SI can sort it out this year then I think they won't have much to worry about.

Smirking_Saint
18-08-2009, 01:01 PM
I can see why they went down the steam route (which was a major problem with FM) as it would enable them to deliver patches and updates much more seamlessly.

Unfortunately it just caused confusion across the board.

I have purchased CM10 and will see what it is like, i will also do this before buying FM10, FM was getting a little stale for me, and this cheap purchase gives me a chance to see if the new CM is any good.

As much as the bugs, sorry MLG but as much as i am a massive FM fan it was super bug ridden and has never worked bug free first time, such as many games these days are.

I think it is a good strategy from CM, yeah it could explode in their faces however it could get the word around and could make it a resounding success, not to mention the money they will save on packaging, transport etc etc

Matthew Le God
18-08-2009, 01:05 PM
I have purchased CM10 and will see what it is like,

You could have played the CM demo to do that for free today.

By buying it you won't find out until 11th Sept.

Matthew Le God
18-08-2009, 01:09 PM
Again can i just say Football Manager 2009 was a complete a total bugfest. And in the games world/marketing world is now the blueprint of how not to release a game.
Championship manager 10 will have more bugs then the australian outback. But that does not make FM better or any less buggy as you try to imply.

FM09 did have bugs I have never denied that at least they produce free patches. However Eidos/BGS have hinted they won't be producing patches.

As I have said before there should be alot fewer bugs in FM10 due to changes in the QA systems now in place. Looking at the CM demo there are game breaking bugs so even for £2.51 it is a poor buy.

skintsaint
18-08-2009, 01:40 PM
Shockingly bug riddled and the AI is fundamentally flawed

The Southampton data is very poor. :D

could almost be talking about FM09 when it was released...

Matthew Le God
18-08-2009, 01:57 PM
could almost be talking about FM09 when it was released...

It never had anything as bad as this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9HpiXYnHS8

Shows the whole match engine is a mess and player AI is non existent. CM may well not be releasing patches beyond 11th September.

skintsaint
18-08-2009, 01:59 PM
is that the final release? thats shocking.

and a FM version did have something like that where you put all your players around the post apart from one on the edge, and near enough every time he would bang it in.

Even with FM09 there is the challenge keeper corner in where your CB gets 20+ goals a season.

Not sure what version to get this year...

JonnyLove
18-08-2009, 02:01 PM
It never had anything as bad as this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9HpiXYnHS8

Shows the whole match engine is a mess and player AI is non existent. CM may well not be releasing patches beyond 11th September.

Don't know what the issue is at least a team of mine might score :)

St Marco
18-08-2009, 02:11 PM
FM09 did have bugs I have never denied that at least they produce free patches. However Eidos/BGS have hinted they won't be producing patches.

As I have said before there should be alot fewer bugs in FM10 due to changes in the QA systems now in place. Looking at the CM demo there are game breaking bugs so even for £2.51 it is a poor buy.

6 Patches will be released for CM10 if you read their page.....


On a side note let me say a huge reason why Eidos have done this is simply because they know Football Management games no longer sell like they used to. They also know that CM sells probably not even half of what FM sells.
They know that few people will spend £29.99 on buying Championship Manager 2010. So they will never gain ground on FM that way.

What they are doing with this is more of a marketing tactic then anything else. What they are doing is letting people play the full game for next to nothing. £2.50 is nothing. In contrast to £29.99 for FM that is an 83% difference in price.
A lot of people are unhappy with FM right now so will try anything else. This enables them to do so. A lot of people will play it and hate it. But a few people will play it and like it. Those people whould not have played it unless it was cheap.

CM10 will probably be crap and that is a main point of why it will be cheap. In terms of reviews were probably looking at 60% or so. BUT the FM series itself is in a deep slump. Only last year it just scrapped into the 80% score. This year from people i know at the various games sites have said that they are again not happy with the series so to expect probably lower scores. So i can imagine FM10 getting scores around 75%.

So for probably an additional 15% better score is it really woth paying an additonal 83% in price? As Matt said, is that value for money?

Obviously no

Matthew Le God
18-08-2009, 02:16 PM
6 Patches will be released for CM10 if you read their page.....




If you actually read it you will see these are 6 data updates NOT patches that fix bugs. Also you have to pay for these data updates.

St Marco
18-08-2009, 02:32 PM
If you actually read it you will see these are 6 data updates NOT patches that fix bugs. Also you have to pay for these data updates.

Are data updates not patches then?
I'm pretty certain all games, especially PC games have patches that fix bugs. WHy would Eidos be any different? Have they all been fired or something?

skintsaint
18-08-2009, 02:36 PM
yeah but MLG is an agent for SI games so he will find something else to argue about ;)

seriously..I think the gap between the two games is closing.

JonnyLove
18-08-2009, 02:41 PM
Are data updates not patches then?
I'm pretty certain all games, especially PC games have patches that fix bugs. WHy would Eidos be any different? Have they all been fired or something?

They do say data updates and it will be either £5 to £6 a time. (I think you can take it as read that these will also include patches)

now you to stop bickering

Matthew Le God
18-08-2009, 02:41 PM
Are data updates not patches then?
I'm pretty certain all games, especially PC games have patches that fix bugs. WHy would Eidos be any different? Have they all been fired or something?

Data updates are not patches.

Data updates = Update the database player transfers etc and there will be 6 of these throughout the year

Patches = fix bugs

BGS/Eidos have said that after Sept 11th it is unlikely they will make any patches.

skintsaint
18-08-2009, 02:42 PM
maybe there isnt many bugs....

Matthew Le God
18-08-2009, 02:43 PM
yeah but MLG is an agent for SI games so he will find something else to argue about ;)

seriously..I think the gap between the two games is closing.

How can you say that when you haven't seen FM2010?

skintsaint
18-08-2009, 02:43 PM
They do say data updates and it will be either £5 to £6 a time. (I think you can take it as read that these will also include patches)




fark that...guess thats where they hope to make the money back.

Matthew Le God
18-08-2009, 02:43 PM
maybe there isnt many bugs....

Have you played the demo yet?

skintsaint
18-08-2009, 02:44 PM
How can you say that when you haven't seen FM2010?

Im taking it from what both games have said is included in the new versions, as i have said before FM10 isnt much of an improvement on FM09 by what they have released so far.

skintsaint
18-08-2009, 02:44 PM
Have you played the demo yet?

demo meaning beta version?

how much commision you on out of interest? ;)

Matthew Le God
18-08-2009, 02:49 PM
demo meaning beta version?

how much commision you on out of interest? ;)

It is a Beta version that is released 3 weeks before the game so pretty much exactly how it will be on the day of release. Development and QA in games development takes alot of time. As does manufacture and distribution of the game to the shops. So Eidos have little or no time to make changes before the release.

I'm not on any commission. If I thought CM was the best game I would be a researcher and tester for them. However I don't :D

skintsaint
18-08-2009, 02:52 PM
after reading this it seems the beta will be different to the release and they know there is a few bugs in the match engine.

http://board.fm09.de/lofiversion/index.php?t11516.html

Deanovski
18-08-2009, 03:02 PM
doesnt even work on mac fm10 ftw

Smirking_Saint
18-08-2009, 03:53 PM
Playing Demo as we speak, it seems ok, the scouting, training and transfer aspects are very good, match engine has a few issues, and TBH the database probably isn't as good as FM's. However a very good effort, especially for a few quid :)

St Marco
18-08-2009, 03:58 PM
Yeah just had a brief look myself. Not that bad really. Graphics are actually excellent, far better then FM. However in terms of depth it lacks quite a bit. For £2.51 that is a bargain.
Will save myself £27 this year and put towards something else like God of War 3 or Mafia 2 :)

Mase
20-08-2009, 02:39 PM
Playing the demo at the moment – And can honestly say I prefer it to any FM I’ve played.

What I prefer over FM:

- Graphics
- Scouting system
- Match Engine
- Simplicity of the layout

I think they’ve done an excellent job and have already ordered my copy. For £2.51, it’s a no brainer!

Matthew Le God
20-08-2009, 03:25 PM
Playing the demo at the moment – And can honestly say I prefer it to any FM I’ve played.

What I prefer over FM:

- Graphics
- Scouting system
- Match Engine
- Simplicity of the layout

I think they’ve done an excellent job and have already ordered my copy. For £2.51, it’s a no brainer!

The animations may look pretty but the underlying engine is a mess - Exhibit A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9HpiXYnHS8

Look at the database and it is far from accurate - Exhibit B the Southampton data

Mase
20-08-2009, 03:43 PM
The animations may look pretty but the underlying engine is a mess - Exhibit A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9HpiXYnHS8

Look at the database and it is far from accurate - Exhibit B the Southampton data

Whilst that’s true it’s a Beta Demo we’re playing.

In my opinion the potentional is there to be better than FM now. But your right, they need to sharpen up on there database and get rid of some flaws before release, which having read the Official Forum they will be doing.

Matthew Le God
20-08-2009, 03:57 PM
Whilst that’s true it’s a Beta Demo we’re playing.

In my opinion the potentional is there to be better than FM now. But your right, they need to sharpen up on there database and get rid of some flaws before release, which having read the Official Forum they will be doing.

It is a beta demo released 3 weeks before the game goes on sale. If they can't sort it out in 2 years of development time they have no chance in under 3 weeks. Remember it takes time for a game to go into manufacture/distribution to shops and that process will happen along time before 11th September.

skintsaint
20-08-2009, 04:02 PM
It is a beta demo released 3 weeks before the game goes on sale. If they can't sort it out in 2 years of development time they have no chance in under 3 weeks. Remember it takes time for a game to go into manufacture/distribution to shops and that process will happen along time before 11th September.

2 years to develop the whole game...things like you have pointed out can be resolved easily im sure...

skintsaint
20-08-2009, 04:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuRjY5grMmE&feature=related


looks nice

Matthew Le God
20-08-2009, 04:08 PM
2 years to develop the whole game...things like you have pointed out can be resolved easily im sure...

The video link I showed shows the whole match engine has no player AI. That is quite a large problem.

The database is massively incorrect. That is an enormous problem.

skintsaint
20-08-2009, 04:11 PM
we shall see when the proper version is released I guess.

Matthew Le God
20-08-2009, 04:17 PM
The database is something they aren't going to get right. The CM database is made by a small number of people(10 people in their office) that don't watch or support the majority of the clubs they research. They also have a small number of external researchers and sources of data. FM database is made by over 1,500 researchers all around the world that are mostly season ticket holders.

St Marco
20-08-2009, 04:28 PM
Wasen't that youtube video shown to be just some guy messing about having all the players mark the corner taker or something?

Having put a few hours in now i have not seen that once.

It reminds me a lot for some reason of Sensible World of Soccer.

Matthew Le God
20-08-2009, 04:36 PM
Wasen't that youtube video shown to be just some guy messing about having all the players mark the corner taker or something?

Having put a few hours in now i have not seen that once.



It shows that the players have very poor AI when it comes to marking. It is him using the set piece creator to show a massive flaw in the game. He instructed his attackers to run or stand on the side of the pitch. The defenders blindly mark them without considering the huge space in the of free space in the centre of the pitch. The match engine is fundamentally flawed. Players just run around like headless chickens.

St Marco
20-08-2009, 04:41 PM
It shows that the players have very poor AI when it comes to marking. It is him using the set piece creator to show a massive flaw in the game. He instructed his attackers to run or stand on the side of the pitch. The defenders blindly mark them without considering the huge space in the of free space in the centre of the pitch. The match engine is fundamentally flawed. Players just run around like headless chickens.

hmm but if i wanted to i could make FM do the exact same thing.
I will try and find the thread but i think its bogus. Some guy probably added 2 players and just made it like that. Having had loads of corners not once seen it as i said.

Matthew Le God
20-08-2009, 04:43 PM
Having had loads of corners not once seen it as i said.

You are missing the point. The computer didn't make the set piece it was the user. The computer in each of those goals is the defending team.

skintsaint
20-08-2009, 04:51 PM
You are missing the point. The computer didn't make the set piece it was the user. The computer in each of those goals is the defending team.

well dont cheat and then it wont happen...sorted

Matthew Le God
20-08-2009, 04:54 PM
well dont cheat and then it wont happen...sorted

It isn't cheating to create a set piece. The most important thing this shows is not that it is possible to do set pieces like this, but that the players have NO AI what-so-ever. This lack of AI will be shown in other areas of the game.

That is so worrying it should stop anyone from wanting to play the game until it is fixed as it is a game breaker. The problem with this is that Eidos/BGS have said they are unlikely to produce patches beyond one on 11th September.

skintsaint
20-08-2009, 04:56 PM
It isn't cheating to create a set piece. The most important thing this shows is not that it is possible to do set pieces like this, but that the players have NO AI what-so-ever.

That is so worrying it should stop anyone from wanting to play the game until it is fixed as it is a game breaker. The problem with this is that Eidos/BGS have said they are unlikely to produce patches beyond one on 11th September.

I dont understand how breaking the AI on one small piece of the game would want to stop you playing it...just dont set a cheating one up and then no problems.

unless there is more than just this one example?...

Matthew Le God
20-08-2009, 04:59 PM
I dont understand how breaking the AI on one small piece of the game would want to stop you playing it...just dont set a cheating one up and then no problems.

unless there is more than just this one example?...

It isn't one piece of the game. It shows that there is no AI. Just watch the players in a match. They swarm around the ball like headless chickens. It doesn't represent a real game of football in any way.

Yes, it has better player animations than FM. But the the underlying match engine(the important bit) is truly shocking and like something from a mid to late 1990's game.

Matthew Le God
20-08-2009, 05:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA7YLJaNV2g

It is so funny to watch just how poor this match engine is :D

St Marco
20-08-2009, 05:05 PM
Reading the forums, especially this post
http://forums.championshipmanager.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=60315
Says the editor is fixed.

Only just read th forum and did not realise the version available is the Beta version being used to help iron out bugs.....

I realise your loyalty to the FM series Matt but will you be the first person to then hold your hand up and say the same things about FM10 when that comes out?
If i put my goalkeeper in midfield and let in a lot of goals will you say that is a game breaking bug too? ;)

Somehow even if Fm does not install, runs at a crap rate (i have a very powerful pc), locks up, has the same bugs it always has etc etc i doubt you will bash it :P

St Marco
20-08-2009, 05:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA7YLJaNV2g

It is so funny to watch just how poor this match engine is :D

Looks okay in this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2U3domLi8o&feature=related

Think it is safe to assume the FM fanboys feel threatened so have created those videos (even downgrading the quality to 600 rez in your video) to try and make it look as bad as possible.

Matthew Le God
20-08-2009, 05:12 PM
Reading the forums, especially this post
http://forums.championshipmanager.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=60315
Says the editor is fixed.

Only just read th forum and did not realise the version available is the Beta version being used to help iron out bugs.....

I realise your loyalty to the FM series Matt but will you be the first person to then hold your hand up and say the same things about FM10 when that comes out?
If i put my goalkeeper in midfield and let in a lot of goals will you say that is a game breaking bug too? ;)

Somehow even if Fm does not install, runs at a crap rate (i have a very powerful pc), locks up, has the same bugs it always has etc etc i doubt you will bash it :P

By no means is FM09 perfect but it is light years ahead of CM10. FM10 will make that gap even larger. I have played all three ;)

Putting your keeper in midfield and conceding goals is not a game breaking bug as that is what you would expect to happen if you did the same in real life. However if you did what you see in that set piece video in real life the defenders would ignore the players on the touchline and zonal mark the danger in the middle of the goal, that would happen in FM but not CM.

Matthew Le God
20-08-2009, 05:20 PM
Looks okay in this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2U3domLi8o&feature=related

Think it is safe to assume the FM fanboys feel threatened so have created those videos (even downgrading the quality to 600 rez in your video) to try and make it look as bad as possible.

Look at the team shape(or lack of it) and player movement in that video. They are running around like an under 11 schoolboy match.

You surely can't think that resembles a realistic game of professional football! :D

You are looking at the shiny and nice player animations and ignoring the actual game of football that is being played out.

Watch it closely and you will see.

Saint_clark
20-08-2009, 05:22 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA7YLJaNV2g

It is so funny to watch just how poor this match engine is :D

:lol:
Champ manager is sh*t. Full stop.

St Marco
20-08-2009, 05:24 PM
By no means is FM09 perfect but it is light years ahead of CM10. FM10 will make that gap even larger. I have played all three ;)

Putting your keeper in midfield and conceding goals is not a game breaking bug as that is what you would expect to happen if you did the same in real life. However if you did what you see in that set piece video in real life the defenders would ignore the players on the touchline and zonal mark the danger in the middle of the goal, that would happen in FM but not CM.

As i said somewhere else in this thread CM10 will be crap, it is never going to beat FM. But the fact is the reason people are looking at other games such as CM is because of how crap the FM series now is. You say FM10 will make the gap larger but from all previews nobody seems to agree, they think the series has gone backwards further. Comparing CM10 to FM10 is like a Saints fan going onto the Pompey forums and saying how great we are and how **** they are. While obviously they are in the Prem league they will always be better. But we have had our slump and are re-building while they are set to go into a slump. Meaning we will progress forwards and they will backwards. If that continues at somepoint we will over take them. The metaphor is the same with the FM and CM series. While CM improves FM doesn't. If that trend continues then it is just a matter of time before CM passes over FM. It is like as stated the Fifa/Pro Evo trend part 2. From all accounts of non biased people we should expect CM getting between 60 and 70 score wise and FM to get between 70 and 80. Hardly a victory to re-joice about considering one cost basically £27 more :)

Matthew Le God
20-08-2009, 05:26 PM
Have any reviewers had a hands on with FM10? I don't think they have St Marco.

St Marco
20-08-2009, 07:04 PM
Have any reviewers had a hands on with FM10? I don't think they have St Marco.

Does not work like that. You don't get a copy to review months before it's release.....
You get sit down sessions with the publishers (in this case Sega) to help promote it's release. A lot of these sit downs have started as one person i know for 100% fact has been to one. If you re-read the other thread your see i mention that already. I mention the vibe which he re-layed info to me was not so great. Beta testers such as yourself are supposed to be bound to non disclosure agreements and that is why stuff is not on the tinternet in regards to their views, yet. You will see the "hand's on" impressions from the various websites within a week or two. Obviously that would mean a demo would be also coming in 2 weeks or so. And then we will see if what i have said is right in that generally people think it is not that great or if your right and that it is better then 2009 wont we :)

saintsforlife7
20-08-2009, 10:08 PM
I've just downloaded the demo and I think it's terrible! It's confusing what to do as a newcomer, searching for players and having stats out of 100 is not as easy to tell as in FM. As a regular FM player it is so much easier on the eye and layout means such easier navigation through screens which this just doesn't have. Ok the 3d pitch might be a bit better but overall I think it's not even worth the £2.51 you could pay for it

Mase
21-08-2009, 10:16 AM
I've just downloaded the demo and I think it's terrible! It's confusing what to do as a newcomer, searching for players and having stats out of 100 is not as easy to tell as in FM. As a regular FM player it is so much easier on the eye and layout means such easier navigation through screens which this just doesn't have. Ok the 3d pitch might be a bit better but overall I think it's not even worth the £2.51 you could pay for it

See I find the layout more simplistic and easier to get to grips with than any FM…

Searching for players is nearly identical to FM… So I can’t quite understand what you mean there?

And the reason for them scrapping the 1-20 system makes complete sense:

The reason we decided to do away with the 1-20 system was to help with the scouting. When we show an attribute on a player we have 80% knowledge on we wanted to say it was between 61-68 if we'd gone with the 1-20 system we'd have had to show 13. There wouldn't be enough granularity there.

So in order to better the scouting system, they had to scrap the old system.

Matthew Le God
21-08-2009, 08:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6Adq0cjN3Y

Some more evidence of the players having no AI.

I love how the keeper pauses to ponder before he does the deed.

saintsforlife7
21-08-2009, 11:46 PM
See I find the layout more simplistic and easier to get to grips with than any FM…

Searching for players is nearly identical to FM… So I can’t quite understand what you mean there?

And the reason for them scrapping the 1-20 system makes complete sense:

The reason we decided to do away with the 1-20 system was to help with the scouting. When we show an attribute on a player we have 80% knowledge on we wanted to say it was between 61-68 if we'd gone with the 1-20 system we'd have had to show 13. There wouldn't be enough granularity there.

So in order to better the scouting system, they had to scrap the old system.

I understand the 1-20 system scrapping now but still don't like it. With regards to searching, FM seems to be easier to search for certain things, having all the boxes and things to tick doesn't work for me like FM. So I must have been playing FM too long. Might buy it anyway, had Saints doing alright because of the set peice glitch but back to Fm for now

skintsaint
24-08-2009, 09:21 AM
Been playing it over the weekend, love it.

Matthew Le God
24-08-2009, 05:19 PM
So things like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6Adq0cjN3Y don't worry you? ;)

St Marco
24-08-2009, 06:52 PM
So things like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6Adq0cjN3Y don't worry you? ;)

Okay that is it, time to bring out the FM videos showing FM is just as bad :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hNG2UXrmHk
(that is just as bad as that one)
or how about these gems?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP3vgMJp_Es
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaaTsa8jkcI

Or this classic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDVDY_ImIhM

etc etc

All games have bugs, those bugs did not ruin your enjoyment of the FM game last year so why should those effect his?

Matthew Le God
24-08-2009, 08:34 PM
Do any of those happen in 9.0.3 or FM10? No they don't.

The AI in CM is non existent. Will Eidos release patches beyond the 11th Sept to correct problems? No

Clapham Saint
24-08-2009, 09:59 PM
It is a beta demo released 3 weeks before the game goes on sale. If they can't sort it out in 2 years of development time they have no chance in under 3 weeks. Remember it takes time for a game to go into manufacture/distribution to shops and that process will happen along time before 11th September.

Although I think FM looks good (I especially like the look fo the tactics wizard, some thing that has been too over complicated in the past), FM has hardly covered itself in glory in relation to being bug free on release....

Mase
24-08-2009, 10:19 PM
Do any of those happen in 9.0.3 or FM10? No they don't.

The AI in CM is non existent. Will Eidos release patches beyond the 11th Sept to correct problems? No

Hopefully they won’t have to and the game will be a lot smoother upon release! - Also can you post some sort of official CM source where they say they will not be bringing out any patches after release? I’m struggling to find anything…

I’m not sure if those videos are as of the 9.0.3 patch, but regardless... There are still many problems with FM. Marek Hamsik ring any bells?

There will be issues with both games, probably more so on CM due to the fact they have almost completely overhauled the game. They are experimenting, living dangerously, offering new untried things. It’s to be expected.

Matthew Le God
24-08-2009, 10:35 PM
offering new untried things

Apart from the (flawed) set piece creator what does CM10 have that FM doesn't?

The list the other way round is huge.

skintsaint
24-08-2009, 11:11 PM
Do any of those happen in 9.0.3

so it took them patches to get it right.. :lol: nutter

Matthew Le God
24-08-2009, 11:20 PM
so it took them patches to get it right.. :lol: nutter

Irrelevant as we are taking about the present and at present FM doesn't have those bugs. CM does have those bugs.

FM has changed the way it has been developed/tested this year and I predict will have far fewer bugs than ever before.

mynameisthehulk
24-08-2009, 11:26 PM
My turn

My first point to MLG would be that FM does not have a create a set piece facility to the extent that CM (from the video footage only) appears to have, so its impossible to compare what would happen in FM under the same scenario.

My second would be that FM has been rubbish since 07, which was the best management sim ever IMO. 08's match engine was so full of bugs at release that it ruined the game for me, the press conferences annoyed me, added nothing followed by a plethora of offsides, long range wonder goals and about 7 injuries. Patched it was, but never felt as accurate as the previous match engine. For me FM09 was just FM08 with shyte 3d graphics, which in themselves caused problems for loads of users with lower end GPUs but did not add anything for those who could run it with no problems.

I am going to give the CM10 demo a shot, and if its w@nk then so be it, but the FM series is flawed, going in the wrong direction and losing my support.

Matthew Le God
24-08-2009, 11:30 PM
My turn

My first point to MLG would be that FM does not have a create a set piece facility to the extent that CM (from the video footage only) appears to have, so its impossible to compare what would happen in FM under the same scenario.



It is more than just set pieces. That video shows that players blindly mark the player where ever they go and seemingly have no AI. This simply does not happen in FM.

Matthew Le God
24-08-2009, 11:31 PM
the FM series is flawed, going in the wrong direction and losing my support.

Why flawed and what direction should it go?

mynameisthehulk
24-08-2009, 11:40 PM
It is more than just set pieces. That video shows that players blindly mark the player where ever they go and seemingly have no AI. This simply does not happen in FM.


Why flawed and what direction should it go?

I'll play the demo and find out for myself how the match engine is on CM.

SI needed to leave the match engine where it was in FM07 and start working on the 3d in 08, they might have got it looking good by now and working smoothly, at which point the game should be made more immersive in terms of your character and other characters in the game.

Matthew Le God
24-08-2009, 11:52 PM
The 3D is only a representation of the match engine, it is not in itself the match engine (which can work independently from the 3D in the form of 2D or just text commentary).

The 3D has been in development now for 4 years. You will see significant changes this year with animated crowds, stadiums, realistic pitch degradation, better lighting effects, weather and over 100 new player animations.

aids victim
25-08-2009, 10:38 AM
SWOS is better than the new Football Managers.

Clapham Saint
25-08-2009, 01:54 PM
I've got high hopes for the next FM (yet again).

In the past I've always had them pre-ordered but am going to give it a few weeks this time around as I've just not enjoyed the last few installments.

Why do they insist in additing in new features (e.g. the press conferences/ managing every aspect of morning and afternoon training etc) rather than improving and de-bugging the game that they already had?

The beauty of the original FM games (or CM as they were) was the playability of them and striking the right balance between "real managemnet" and over complexity. Something that has been lost (IMO) in the drive to add as many different features as possible.

FWIW it still looks better than CM though