D-Day

remember today that was...

remarkable achievement when you even think about it..

how on earth did we even pull that off...?

With a lot of help from the Americans.

remember today that was...

 

remarkable achievement when you even think about it..

how on earth did we even pull that off...?

Sheer numbers. By midnight on the day of the landings, close to 150,000 allied troops had made it ashore - not counting the thousands who died trying.

66 years ago this very day. It could so easily have been a different story had certain aspects not worked in our favour. I recently read Stephen E Ambrose's Pegasus Bridge which tells the story of Major John Howard and the British 6th Airbourne's assault and capture of the bridges at Ranville in the early hours prior to the landings that so nearly failed; the consequences of which would have been disastrous for the seaborne assault forces.

Anyway, to those on here who lost relatives that day, and to the families and friends of all those who died on the beaches, may their sacrifice never be forgotten. I must admit that I had no interest in WWII when I was younger - I saw it as just some **** that happened in the past and didn't concern me. But as I have grown older I have I have made a point of educating myself on the subject, as I have come to realise just how important in human history those events were, and how different the world would be now had the outcome been different. This is the point I try and make to the younger generation now when they have the same attitude that I used to have, because as a species we have to make sure that we learn the lessons from our history and make sure we never have to make the same mistakes again.

how on earth did we even pull that off...?

Complete domination of the sea and air, plus the Germans had Hitler - he could always be relied on to scupper his generals at the crucial moment.

Complete domination of the sea and air, plus the Germans had Hitler - he could always be relied on to scupper his generals at the crucial moment.

I know that..just the neck of it all...so many things were against us, the weather, the beaches..the crazyness of it all..

unreal eh..?

watched a programme last night about the landings at Omaha beach, seems to me the whole success of the landing there was down to some US Rangers being landed at the wrong part of the beach , combined with the courage of the men involved at all the beaches

I would suggest reading both Max Hastings and Anthony Beevor's books on the Normandy campaigns.

D-Day was a doddle compared to the battles, especially for the British and Canadians whose main aim was to suck in German reserves, that lay ahead that summer.

I spent three weeks last summer in Normandy exploring the beaches, battlefields, memorials and cemeteries of the Normandy campaign. It was a very moving and thought provoking experience especially where I was based was in the direct line of advance of Operation Cobra and the devastation that it bought.

For 20+ years I've been paying regular visits to the main cemetery at Bayeux and laying flowers on a particular grave on an unknown British sailor killed on June 6th 1944. I feel duty bound to visit. I can't explain but it's to do with a feeling that I want him to know that he'll never be forgotten.

watched a programme last night about the landings at Omaha beach' date=' seems to me the whole success of the landing there was down to some US Rangers being landed at the wrong part of the beach , combined with the courage of the men involved at all the beaches[/quote']

 

I believe you are refering to the assult at Pont Du Huc.

 

I would suggest that you misunderstood the Timewatch programme you watched regarding that particular assult.

 

Whilst Omaha was bogged down for most of the day the invasion was never really in doubt at Utah, Gold, Juno or Sword from about 8am.

easy, easy, easy

I salute all those who took part in such an audacious and heroic operation. I've not been much involved with these battlefields although I have crossed the Pegasus bridge many times, but here are just a couple of incidents:

A couple of years ago I went over on the fast catamaran to Ouistreham and as I was going down the steps to the car deck a fellow who looked the same age as me looked out of the window and said 'Hmm, a bit different from the last time I was here'. He spent D-Day sitting in a LST that was stuck sitting on the beach waiting for the next tide. It was the first time that he had been back since the war.

A fortnight later we took a day trip to Arromanches and the area on a Sunday and visited the American cemetery at Colleville-sur-Mer. It was full of French families walking quietly amongst the graves and was very moving and gratifying.

I would suggest reading both Max Hastings and Anthony Beevor's books on the Normandy campaigns..

I am currently reading overlord. Think it is very good. I read Beevors books and was not really impressed by them especially Berlin.

But yeah anyone who has read overlord will see it in a whole new light. Those brave people will never be forgotten.

I am currently reading overlord. Think it is very good. I read Beevors books and was not really impressed by them especially Berlin.

 

But yeah anyone who has read overlord will see it in a whole new light. Those brave people will never be forgotten.

Beevor's book on the Normandy campaign is a tour de force. Hastings deals with the landings more deeply but Beevor's grasp of the whole campaign is genius.

It's important we continue to remember those who died, not just on D-Day, but the War as a whole.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:

Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning,

We will remember them.

Those events 66 years ago will always astound and amaze me.

How a generation of men managed to answer the call of duty, and do what they did, should always be remembered.

I'm reading Chester Wilmot's "The Struggle for Europe" at the moment. Very good book, worth reading.

http://www.amazon.com/Struggle-Europe-Wordsworth-Collection/dp/1853266779

I was recently on a course in Nijmegen and kicking around with nothing to do one evening I saw a sign for "Canadian War Graves" so thought I'd have a look. It was deeply moving and I can't believe how so many young men came over and fought for a war that was so far away from their their home and basically didn't have anything to do with them.

I know we could argue that about Iraq and Afghanistan, but the nature of war is different nowadays (not saying that the modern soldiers are any less brave).

I agree with Bexy that when I was younger I had little interest in WWII (apart from the Commando comics my neighbour had - "Eat lead, Fritz!", "Schnell, schnell - Die Britischer Pig-dog") but the more you read about it, the more you realise how amazingly courageous our grandfathers were... I'll raise a glass for them tonight.

I'll go now before I start thinking that bringing back conscription will sort the youth of today out and that voting Tory is an option!!

I'll go now before I start thinking that bringing back conscription will sort the youth of today out and that voting Tory is an option!!

I 100% agree with this. I travelled quite a bit a few years back and when i was in Europe i realised that quite a few countries do this. Sort of like a mandatory service for a year at around 18.

I think part of the problem for the yoof is that they sort of have no aspirations to be much. Rather then try to be something they just give up and feel the whole world is against them. So in terms of real action i hope they are never put anywhere near our real troops on the front line as it has recipe for disaster. "Dave go get some more ammo, fast, we can't hold these guy's off much longer!. "bovered".

But i think if they did proper military camp/training and a tour of duty in Afghan/Iraq but not in the front line it would do them the world of good.

Our problem is we go to easy on them.

Visiting the beaches and surrounding museums in Normandy should be something everyone does at some stage.

Particularly the yoof - Europe and USA.

The gravestones serve as a permanent reminder of how so many kids sacrificed their lives.

St Marco - I don't agree with conscription, but I do see where you are coming from - I lived in Switzerland for 5 years where there is still mandatory military service and I never heard one Swiss person complain about it).

I think for us Brits (politically, we would NEVER re-introduce National Service) it's down to respect for tradition and understanding of history; but it IS a 2-way thing; us old codgers and parents have to give our yoof the time and education (and enthusiasm) to broaden their interest.

I think Redondo Saint's idea is a good one - I guess I'm lucky to live here but my kids must be sick of visiting the Anne Frank Museum, Overloon and Westerbork to at least get a sense of the horror of war (which is not particularly well-portrayed in their PSP and Playstation games). I can understand that from our parent's perspective, WWII was still a bit raw, so most school trips were to things like the Science or Natural History Museums; but I think that now is the time we have more "interactive" trips to remember the brave...

Lest we forget....

Just read up on it, seeing as I didn't listen in school. We done good, fair play us.

I 100% agree with this. I travelled quite a bit a few years back and when i was in Europe i realised that quite a few countries do this. Sort of like a mandatory service for a year at around 18.

 

I think part of the problem for the yoof is that they sort of have no aspirations to be much. Rather then try to be something they just give up and feel the whole world is against them. So in terms of real action i hope they are never put anywhere near our real troops on the front line as it has recipe for disaster. "Dave go get some more ammo, fast, we can't hold these guy's off much longer!. "bovered".

 

But i think if they did proper military camp/training and a tour of duty in Afghan/Iraq but not in the front line it would do them the world of good.

 

Our problem is we go to easy on them.

A good officer never asks a man to do something he's not prepared to do himself - those advocating the return of conscription would do well to follow this principle and volunteer for active service in Afghanistan .

It's just a ridiculous oversimplification to claim that military service necessarily improves a young human being - sometimes it does , sometimes it most definitely doesn't .

For every ex serviceman who maintains the familiar 'best years of my life' line you can find many others who emerged from combat deeply traumatized by the horrors they have witnessed . Some are left physically and/or psychologically ruined by the experience and never fully recover . The opinions of the many who don't even survive combat must remain 'Known unto God' only .

I honour the memory of the D-DAY veterans - I thank the God I don't really believe in that I never had to be there on those terrible beaches alongside them .

no no no to national service

A good officer never asks a man to do something he's not prepared to do himself - those advocating the return of conscription would do well to follow this principle and volunteer for active service in Afghanistan .

 

It's just a ridiculous oversimplification to claim that military service necessarily improves a young human being - sometimes it does , sometimes it most definitely doesn't .

For every ex serviceman who maintains the familiar 'best years of my life' line you can find many others who emerged from combat deeply traumatized by the horrors they have witnessed . Some are left physically and/or psychologically ruined by the experience and never fully recover . The opinions of the many who don't even survive combat must remain 'Known unto God' only .

 

I honour the memory of the D-DAY veterans - I thank the God I don't really believe in that I never had to be there on those terrible beaches alongside them .

See i disagree really.

I think having something like that installs discipline in people and teaches them to understand that people rely on them. It makes them understand they are apart of a group which only works if they all pull in the same direction. Don't get me wrong it won't cure all the broken society type things but it will install a self confidence which a lot of these kids badly need.

Obviously war is not easy, as i said they should not be anywhere near the front line. And obviously a lot of those who come back from action suffer in some way i.e psychological problems etc.. But that also happens a lot in every day life too.

All i am saying is these kids today don't seem to have any direction to their lives, just a conveyor belt of them coming out of school and doing nothing. I am pretty sure these kids would find more meaning to their life by doing service like so many other countries then just sitting in a bus shelter every day doing nothing. They are better then that.

st marco..you done much time in the services..?

I would suggest reading both Max Hastings and Anthony Beevor's books on the Normandy campaigns.

 

D-Day was a doddle compared to the battles, especially for the British and Canadians whose main aim was to suck in German reserves, that lay ahead that summer.

 

I spent three weeks last summer in Normandy exploring the beaches, battlefields, memorials and cemeteries of the Normandy campaign. It was a very moving and thought provoking experience especially where I was based was in the direct line of advance of Operation Cobra and the devastation that it bought.

 

For 20+ years I've been paying regular visits to the main cemetery at Bayeux and laying flowers on a particular grave on an unknown British sailor killed on June 6th 1944. I feel duty bound to visit. I can't explain but it's to do with a feeling that I want him to know that he'll never be forgotten.[/quote

 

I really want to do this trips plus the WW1 but just wonder what the Mrs would have to do.

I really want to do this trips plus the WW1 but just wonder what the Mrs would have to do.

My missus and kids also had a great holiday as there is plenty to do in Normandy anyway.

My missus, not a great scholar of history, found it all fascinating.

What I found striking was the small memorials, local ones paid for my communities, doted around, showing the resort of small skirmishes that liberated small hamlets, footnotes in regimental histories, which cost lives.

500m from our farmhouse was a memorial to a Lancaster crew that had crashed on that spot. Flags of the UK, Oz & SA flew, showing the nationality of the crew.

st marco..you done much time in the services..?

It appears, very often, that those who support national service have never served and simply don't understand why those who do or have are, in the main, opposed to it.

on a different note...there are odd places for little memorials..

when on exercise on the Brecon Becons in Wales, there is a US airplane wreck, that is still there from 1940-odd...with a little memorial stone and a wreath..

it is right up in the middle of no where near pen y fan

I have developed a huge respect for those young men (some where not much more than boys) who fought in this war. As I've got older I've come to realise just what a sacrifice they made, not only those that paid the ultimate price, but also those that came back.

Both of my grandfathers, like many others, were conscripted, one refused to talk about the war, the other died when I was too young to realise what he'd been through. However, my step-grandfather was evacuated at Dunkirk & was also involved in the D-Day landings, and loved (probably the wrong word) telling me stories about what he'd seen & done. I have nothing but admiration for what they did.

We will remember them.

All i am saying is these kids today don't seem to have any direction to their lives, just a conveyor belt of them coming out of school and doing nothing. I am pretty sure these kids would find more meaning to their life by doing service like so many other countries then just sitting in a bus shelter every day doing nothing. They are better then that.

I agree with you, and as a 19 year old I've left college with A-Levels and have found myself doing sod all with my life that's why I'm currently applying to join the Army as an officer. I've a medical condition which means I'll probably be rejected but no harm in trying, I just need some direction in my life.

on a different note...there are odd places for little memorials..

 

when on exercise on the Brecon Becons in Wales, there is a US airplane wreck, that is still there from 1940-odd...with a little memorial stone and a wreath..

 

it is right up in the middle of no where near pen y fan

I have made a point to visit the Beaches and the Somme, Ypres and other WWI battlegrounds, also various concentration camps and the scenes of ethnic cleansing in modern day Europe such as Serbia, Croatia and the such. I took my elder children to them and will take the younger ones when they are old enough to really understand what sacrifices people made to let them have the life they enjoy now and also how evil people can be.

Took my kids there when we were all younger, when they first get there they see grubby lumps of concrete and cannot understand why the grwon ups want to stop and get them to read plaques or just look. And then after a museum or the remains of the Mulberry Harbour and the visit to a Cemetry it sinks in, they get it and want to see more. That was as humbling as the "atmosphere" that the area can invoke.

A very good programmme this evening on The History Channel about the Mulberry Harbour, the role played by the DUKW's and all the rest. Amazing to think that they built that in 9 months, kept it secret. towed it across the channel and it was up and working to unload the Tanks and supplies in a very short space of time.

My youngest was born on 6th June. Sometimes I remember it is D-Day and (thank heavens) remember to ping off an email across the oceans. Some times I remember it's his birthday and can then have a small reflection on what those people achieved over 60 years ago.

Everyone should try and visit just once

I agree with you, and as a 19 year old I've left college with A-Levels and have found myself doing sod all with my life that's why I'm currently applying to join the Army as an officer. I've a medical condition which means I'll probably be rejected but no harm in trying, I just need some direction in my life.

if you want to join the forces to give you direction..you wont last and should not bother joining

the days of the forces serving the community in giving people a purpose died many many years ago..

there are more reasons to want to join up..I hope you have them

I have made a point to visit the Beaches and the Somme, Ypres and other WWI battlegrounds, also various concentration camps and the scenes of ethnic cleansing in modern day Europe such as Serbia, Croatia and the such. I took my elder children to them and will take the younger ones when they are old enough to really understand what sacrifices people made to let them have the life they enjoy now and also how evil people can be.

I always feel pity when I visit The Western Front and gratitude when I visit Dunkirk/Dieppe/Normandy and The Low Countries.

Odd.

if you want to join the forces to give you direction..you wont last and should not bother joining

 

the days of the forces serving the community in giving people a purpose died many many years ago..

 

there are more reasons to want to join up..I hope you have them

I have more reasons, don't you worry.

I have more reasons, don't you worry.

good..as it is no way the responsibility of the services to provide you with direction..and nor should it be..

if you dont join for the right reasons, you wont last one way or another

the top reasons we all detest when hearing peoples reason to want to join.

I have nothing to do in life

I want direction

My dad/grandad was in the forces

to learn a trade

good..as it is no way the responsibility of the services to provide you with direction..and nor should it be..

 

if you dont join for the right reasons, you wont last one way or another

 

the top reasons we all detest when hearing peoples reason to want to join.

 

I have nothing to do in life

I want direction

My dad/grandad was in the forces

to learn a trade

I've still a lot to do in life, so no worries there. None of my close family were in the forces and whilst learning a trade will be an added bonus if I get into the REME, it's not a main reason. So what are the reasons you all don't detest, just out of interest?

Went to the graves in Normandy a few years ago, harrowing but incredible experience.

I've still a lot to do in life, so no worries there. None of my close family were in the forces and whilst learning a trade will be an added bonus if I get into the REME, it's not a main reason. So what are the reasons you all don't detest, just out of interest?

the ones listed..maybe detest is the wrong word..but you really have to want to do it, research (alot) the area of the forces you want to join...

look into the history of the job you want to do..

thanks to the economic down turn, the numbers leaving the forces has dropped significantly and the numbers wanting in has equally risen...so they can be alot more picky on who they let in..

when I joined in 1999, it was about 9 weeks from my first interview to starting my first day...now for the same job (and most others) it is at least 18 months wait

you say you want to be an officer...you have to really stand out, tell them you aspire to lead men..

anyway, back on subject - I really would love to go to Normandy and have a look round..never been

the ones listed..maybe detest is the wrong word..but you really have to want to do it, research (alot) the area of the forces you want to join...

look into the history of the job you want to do..

thanks to the economic down turn, the numbers leaving the forces has dropped significantly and the numbers wanting in has equally risen...so they can be alot more picky on who they let in..

 

when I joined in 1999, it was about 9 weeks from my first interview to starting my first day...now for the same job (and most others) it is at least 18 months wait

 

you say you want to be an officer...you have to really stand out, tell them you aspire to lead men..

 

anyway, back on subject - I really would love to go to Normandy and have a look round..never been

That's cool yeah, I've heard they are very picky, and that's understandable really. Didn't realise the waiting time, but fair enough. I was told by the sergeant at the careers office to reapply as an officer when I went there to hand in my application to be a soldier, so we'll see.

Good luck anyway.. Can't stress enough about doing your research...

If you get in..as an officer in the army, your nickname will be "rupert" and will be part of the "red trouser brigade" lol

Good luck anyway.. Can't stress enough about doing your research...

 

If you get in..as an officer in the army, your nickname will be "rupert" and will be part of the "red trouser brigade" lol

Cheers mate, and yeah will do my research. Hah, can't think of a worse nickname to be honest!!

st marco..you done much time in the services..?

I actually did think about joining up when i was younger. A part of me wishes i did. My brother is in the RAF and works with Helicopters. I am actually one of the few in my family who have not been with the armed forces at somepoint. But i have always been interested in it.

Regardless i have enough friends in the various forces. They all seem nice enough and "normal" to me.

Also to just touch up on what you said above about direction etc.. I find that somewhat hard to believe. One of my mates who i went to school with was not very good at school, was a bit thick really. When he left school he tried to be a postman and hated it. Then tried to be some office assistant and again hated it as he said he felt being in an office everyday was a waste. Eventually he decided to join the army as he was bumbling from job to job. 18 years later and he has worked his way up the ladder and now sits as a major. He worked his ass off to progress. Sure he might not ever go higher then that rank but i respect him a lot for getting there. He will be the first to tell you the army is the best thing to happen to him.

I am sure a **** load of people who join the army do so for the exact same reason.

I would suggest reading both Max Hastings and Anthony Beevor's books on the Normandy campaigns.

 

D-Day was a doddle compared to the battles, especially for the British and Canadians whose main aim was to suck in German reserves, that lay ahead that summer.

 

I spent three weeks last summer in Normandy exploring the beaches, battlefields, memorials and cemeteries of the Normandy campaign. It was a very moving and thought provoking experience especially where I was based was in the direct line of advance of Operation Cobra and the devastation that it bought.

 

For 20+ years I've been paying regular visits to the main cemetery at Bayeux and laying flowers on a particular grave on an unknown British sailor killed on June 6th 1944. I feel duty bound to visit. I can't explain but it's to do with a feeling that I want him to know that he'll never be forgotten.[/quote

 

I really want to do this trips plus the WW1 but just wonder what the Mrs would have to do.

 

Your whole family will benifit from the experience, it touches your heart!

I've still a lot to do in life, so no worries there. None of my close family were in the forces and whilst learning a trade will be an added bonus if I get into the REME, it's not a main reason. So what are the reasons you all don't detest, just out of interest?

Don't just rely on the voice of Delldays, he lives under the sea. Listen, pop down to your local Legion, have a word with the oldies. Joining up to have some focus in your life is fine, you will discover the real meaning once in. Don't join because it's a job, that will p1ss people off. If you're aiming to be a 'Rupert', don't be a knob, always be true to yourself. Your character will always dictate as to your suitability to serve, alas some get through the net, and generally, we let them play in Subs.

on a different note...there are odd places for little memorials..

 

when on exercise on the Brecon Becons in Wales, there is a US airplane wreck, that is still there from 1940-odd...with a little memorial stone and a wreath..

 

it is right up in the middle of no where near pen y fan

One of these?

http://peakwreckhunters.blogspot.com/search/label/brecon

on a different note...there are odd places for little memorials..

 

when on exercise on the Brecon Becons in Wales, there is a US airplane wreck, that is still there from 1940-odd...with a little memorial stone and a wreath..

 

it is right up in the middle of no where near pen y fan

There are a few up in the mountains of the Lake District as well.

There are a few up in the mountains of the Lake District as well.

There is one on an industrial park not far from where I live for an American pilot killed in 1944.

http://memorials.emerys.co.uk/perrin.html

Don't just rely on the voice of Delldays, he lives under the sea. Listen, pop down to your local Legion, have a word with the oldies. Joining up to have some focus in your life is fine, you will discover the real meaning once in. Don't join because it's a job, that will p1ss people off. If you're aiming to be a 'Rupert', don't be a knob, always be true to yourself. Your character will always dictate as to your suitability to serve, alas some get through the net, and generally, we let them play in Subs.

Thanks for the info and insight, I'll keep it in mind. Cheers mate.