UK clocks change trial being considered

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15490249

I know we hear this every year, but I'm for it.

As a 9-5er mine free time is in the evenings, if you can't drive in the dark you shouldn't have a license.

Strange that this should be being discussed right now, with all the dire economic stuff going on!

I'm ambivalent and I can understand the arguments on both sides. I remember when we trialled this before. My daughter had just been born and I do remember how easy it was to manage a small baby's sleeping and eating patterns because the clocks didn't change backwards and forwards.

Strange that this should be being discussed right now, with all the dire economic stuff going on!

No it isn't.

Or are you saying that because of the economic crisis government cannot possibly find time to look at unrelated matters?

whilst understanding the argument from our northern friends, could there be a compromise ie change by 30mins rather than an hour?

Also a change in the hours (which I am in favour of) has many positives for the economy.

From http://www.lighterlater.org/benefits.html

1 Cut at least 447,000 tonnes of CO2 pollution – equivalent to more than 50,000 cars driving all the way around the world – each year [1]

2 Save 80 lives each year and prevent hundreds of serious injuries by making the roads safer [2]

3 Lower our electricity bills by maximising the available daylight and reducing peak power demand [3]

4 Create 60,000–80,000 new jobs in leisure and tourism, bringing an extra £2.5–3.5 billion into the economy each year [4]

5 Reduce crime and the fear of crime [5]

6 Help make people healthier and tackle obesity by giving people more time to exercise and play sport outside in the evening [6]

7 Save the NHS around £138 million a year through reducing road casualties [7]

8 Improve quality of life for older people [8]

9 Make the nation happier – including reducing the effects of Seasonal Affective Disorder [9]

10 Demonstrate that dealing with climate change can be good for the economy, good for people and good for society as a whole

whilst understanding the argument from our northern friends, could there be a compromise ie change by 30mins rather than an hour?

Thing is that most of the arguments from scotland are based on misleading figures. In the last trial there was a small increase in morning accidents that got all the headlines but there was a greater decrease in evening accidents, even in scotland. So changing the hours would be good for them as well but there is this deep seated belief that it would be worse because of the morning accident data.

Strange that this should be being discussed right now, with all the dire economic stuff going on!

 

I'm ambivalent and I can understand the arguments on both sides. I remember when we trialled this before. My daughter had just been born and I do remember how easy it was to manage a small baby's sleeping and eating patterns because the clocks didn't change backwards and forwards.

Actually the light would still change back and forth as the proposal is to add an hour all year, including BST so we would be on GMT+1 in the winter and GMT+2 in the summer.

Any non-trivial reason why Scotland couldn't be in a different time-zone to England?

Win win, surely?

Strange that this should be being discussed right now, with all the dire economic stuff going on!

 

I'm ambivalent and I can understand the arguments on both sides. I remember when we trialled this before. My daughter had just been born and I do remember how easy it was to manage a small baby's sleeping and eating patterns because the clocks didn't change backwards and forwards.

The previous trial was different in that we had summer time all year long with no change in the clocks.

I'm 100% for the change to one hour forward all year long. In the winter it'll be dark anyway but the extra evening light in spring and autumn would be marvelous. As for the jocks, they have their own parliament so they can have their own time, should they so wish.

I'm 100% against any +1 hour to the current system. It's hard enough to remember to call my family from east coast US before they go to bed as it is, this is going to make it impossible!

Any non-trivial reason why Scotland couldn't be in a different time-zone to England?

 

Win win, surely?

It amazes me this hasn't been mentioned in the article, it seems so obvious.

It amazes me this hasn't been mentioned in the article, it seems so obvious.

The possibilty of Scotland having its own time zone is the 'elephant in the room' issue. No politician dares suggest it. Uk government doesn't want to do anything that encourages talk of Scottish independence , and the SNP etc daren't push for it, as in reality if it happened, many Scots would simply have to change their work hours to fit with European/rest of UK time, regardless of what their clocks said. Scotland couldn't afford to be out of step with the rest of the UK.

Scottish bankers, call centres, tourism sites, pretty much any firm that exports, etc., etc, would end up working at English office day times anyway .. and in turn many service industries, shops etc would too, to meet the needs of those workers.

Personally I'd call the SNP's bluff and suggest it, but Cameron is presumably too scared. Given how unpopular the Tories already are in Scotland, it might just wipe them off the map completely.

The possibilty of Scotland having its own time zone is the 'elephant in the room' issue. No politician dares suggest it. Uk government doesn't want to do anything that encourages talk of Scottish independence , and the SNP etc daren't push for it, as in reality if it happened, many Scots would simply have to change their work hours to fit with European/rest of UK time, regardless of what their clocks said. Scotland couldn't afford to be out of step with the rest of the UK.

 

Scottish bankers, call centres, tourism sites, pretty much any firm that exports, etc., etc, would end up working at English office day times anyway .. and in turn many service industries, shops etc would too, to meet the needs of those workers.

 

Personally I'd call the SNP's bluff and suggest it, but Cameron is presumably too scared. Given how unpopular the Tories already are in Scotland, it might just wipe them off the map completely.

We're only talking about 60 minutes difference here though. I could understand it having an effect on daily lives if we were talking 2 hours or more, but most people work flexible hours these days, so I can't see it being a logistical nightmare at all.

In my industry (Banking IT) we now regularly deal with workers in India and they are 4 - 5 hours ahead. We simply make it work to our advantage (if you manage the UK based and India based work force cleverly enough you can get 12 hour days rather than 8 hour days out of your "9 to 5" workforce).

As you say, the stumbling block is more around perception than reality.

I find myself agreeing with Trousers' last point (!).

We live in a 24 hour culture these days and many, many people work shifts. At this time of the year, Mr TF never sees daylight when he's working as he travels to / from work in the dark regardless of which shift he's on.

I find myself agreeing with Trousers' last point (!).

Steady on! The space-time continuum will struggle to survive intact with such a coming together of opposite minded matter...! ;-)

We're only talking about 60 minutes difference here though. I could understand it having an effect on daily lives if we were talking 2 hours or more, but most people work flexible hours these days, so I can't see it being a logistical nightmare at all.

 

In my industry (Banking IT) we now regularly deal with workers in India and they are 4 - 5 hours ahead. We simply make it work to our advantage (if you manage the UK based and India based work force cleverly enough you can get 12 hour days rather than 8 hour days out of your "9 to 5" workforce).

 

As you say, the stumbling block is more around perception than reality.

That's only true if you don't care about rush hours, peak hour transport pricing, broadcasting timings and all the rest. I could change my operating hours to get more evening light near the equinoxes but I would only lose an extra hour a day stuck in traffic.

That's only true if you don't care about rush hours, peak hour transport pricing, broadcasting timings and all the rest. I could change my operating hours to get more evening light near the equinoxes but I would only lose an extra hour a day stuck in traffic.

I could be missing the point (163rd time for everything), but how would a worker in Scotland leaving work at 5pm Scottish time and a worker in England leaving work at 5pm English time suddenly cause travel chaos?

And as for having to worry about TV programme times - since when was television mote important than life itself.,.? (asked Trousers rhetorically)

Edit: oops, you were talking about transport pricing rather than rush hour per se. I still don't see it as a big deal

Seems a good idea but **** the jocks moaning about it. They just burn in the sun anyway, like pasty weak drunken vampires.

If it has any whiff of the EUSSR about it then no way.

Frickin EU elite telling us what time to get up. Screw them. Britain is a Sovereign Country. No way should we EVER do what unelected bureaucrats in the EUSSR tell us.

Just who the **** do they think they are?

If it has any whiff of the EUSSR about it then no way.

 

Frickin EU elite telling us what time to get up. Screw them. Britain is a Sovereign Country. No way should we EVER do what unelected bureaucrats in the EUSSR tell us.

 

Just who the **** do they think they are?

Nothing to do with Europe:

"The move is a response to the Daylight Savings Private Members' Bill put forward by Conservative MP Rebecca Harris."

from http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15490249

Nothing to do with Europe:

 

"The move is a response to the Daylight Savings Private Members' Bill put forward by Conservative MP Rebecca Harris."

 

from http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15490249

A a matter of interest, 'What time to they keep in the Irish Republic',

If you believe that the hand of Europe is not upon this, you'll believe anything.

So screw Rebecca, who seemingly has nothing better to concentrate her mind, and leave the system alone.

As a former Merchant seaman, changes in clocks were an everyday way of life so gaining or losing an hour every six months does'nt bother me, and it certainly won't improve any bodies driving skills, (I use the term 'skills' loosely), whether it be dark, or daylight, and this is the excuse that is usually the one most often used.

And so endeth the morning Lesson. Amen.

Also a change in the hours (which I am in favour of) has many positives for the economy.

 

From http://www.lighterlater.org/benefits.html

 

1 Cut at least 447,000 tonnes of CO2 pollution – equivalent to more than 50,000 cars driving all the way around the world – each year [1]

2 Save 80 lives each year and prevent hundreds of serious injuries by making the roads safer [2]

3 Lower our electricity bills by maximising the available daylight and reducing peak power demand [3]

4 Create 60,000–80,000 new jobs in leisure and tourism, bringing an extra £2.5–3.5 billion into the economy each year [4]

5 Reduce crime and the fear of crime [5]

6 Help make people healthier and tackle obesity by giving people more time to exercise and play sport outside in the evening [6]

7 Save the NHS around £138 million a year through reducing road casualties [7]

8 Improve quality of life for older people [8]

9 Make the nation happier – including reducing the effects of Seasonal Affective Disorder [9]

10 Demonstrate that dealing with climate change can be good for the economy, good for people and good for society as a whole

I find numbers 4 & 6 a tad difficult to believe.

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I find numbers 4 & 6 a tad difficult to believe.

 

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Number 6 is fairly obvious I would have thought. With an extra hours light in the evening every day it increases the window in which people can exercise outdoors.

Number 4 is based on this report:

Hillman, M: “The Likely Impact on Tourist Activity in the UK of the Adoption of Daylight Saving”, Policy Studies Institute: 2008 (p.11).

I assume it is a fairly detailed and researched study and not someone sticking their finger in the air and guessing.

A a matter of interest, 'What time to they keep in the Irish Republic',

If you believe that the hand of Europe is not upon this, you'll believe anything.

So screw Rebecca, who seemingly has nothing better to concentrate her mind, and leave the system alone.

As a former Merchant seaman, changes in clocks were an everyday way of life so gaining or losing an hour every six months does'nt bother me, and it certainly won't improve any bodies driving skills, (I use the term 'skills' loosely), whether it be dark, or daylight, and this is the excuse that is usually the one most often used.

And so endeth the morning Lesson. Amen.

"Time zones are the responsibility of individual EU member states and vary across the continent. The devolution arrangements for time zones also vary – responsibility is devolved in Northern Ireland, but reserved in Scotland and Wales."

from: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/28/uk-clocks-hour-forward-trial?INTCMP=SRCH

pedg, sorry I forgot the smile thing after no 6. Yes people can exercise in the lighter

evening, but will they? I suspect not

No 4 I was unaware of that study but I am still a tad skeptical about the numbers

of extra jobs quoted. Hope it is correct though.

Today is a good a day as any to show why a change would be good. Now the clocks are back on GMT the sun rises as 6.40 meaning its light from about 6 and sets at about 4.40 meaning its light till about 5.20. How many people are going to take advantage of the light from 6 till 7 compared to how many could take advantage of the light from 5.20 to 6.20 if we stayed in BST?

pedg, sorry I forgot the smile thing after no 6. Yes people can exercise in the lighter

evening, but will they? I suspect not

I suppose you could consider specific exercise, e.g. people going for a run or having a knock about where often those taking part are already often fairly fit and coincidental exercise, e.g. walking somewhere, generally being out and about. Though unfit people may not exercise more as a specific choice I would expect that the lighter evenings would get more people out and about thus exercising by coincidence. Also this ties in with a likely change to shop hours to be more like some of our continental cousins where the shops are open later into the day. With lighter evenings and more shops open more people would go out in the evening.