Heavy Handed Northern Constabulary, Any Lawyers on here?

As some of you know I have little faith in the Police even less after yesterdays heavy handed situation I found myself in

especially when I am a law abiding citzen and a non smoker

Yesterday I flew from Heathrow to Aberdeen for my connecting flight to Orkney.

I Disembarked the BA flight and went straight to departures. I thin went into the Gents. There were two cubilcles

Both were occupied. When one became empty I went in and was pulling my trousers down to have a crap.

All of a sudden there is a loud knock on the cubicle door. I said they would have to wait as I had only just gone in for a crap > I thought the person was desparate for a crap . Then there were two other knocks saying to open the door now FFS pants round my knees I opened the door and there were two coppers. Telling me to get dressed , I was being accused of smoking in the cubicle.

I got dressed washed hands etc. and this other guy in the other cubicle was getting a thorough body search . He looked totally ****ed off and protesting his innocence> But the cops were still accusing him of smoking , again he was a non smoker

Then the police gave me a thourough body search and went through every bit of my handed luggage to see if I had cigerretes on me. despite telling him I have never smoked let alone having ciggerettews on me . I even suggested they smell my clothes and breath .They went through my wallet/ pockets and took my name and address etc. They said one of you two had to have been smoking . I said there was someone else in the loo when I went in , but they didnt give a ****.

I then left the toilet totally embarrassed and humiliated at all this With the gawping eyes of other passengers in the departure lounge looking on

Apparently the police were alerted to a silent alarm going off as somebody was smoking and they came mob handed. Two inside the loo and two outside. I dindt know about the two outside till I was free to go .

saw if there are any lawyers out there are the police allowed to behave in such a way. I suspect that they took a wee while to get to the toilets and who ever it was probably left several miutes before I and this other guy went in

Am I able to make a formal complaint against them or will the police just deny they were heavy handed in their actions.

Are the police allowed to act in such an aggresive manner.?

Please advise.

Why did it take four policemen to try and catch somebody who had been smoking in a toilet. No wonder they cannot catch rapists/ murders etc who have absconded .

Is it possible you done a dump so potent it set off fire alarms? This happens to me quite often after curry.

Did you swap contact details with the other chap? Given this'll be a case of your word against theirs, having two of you complaining will dent any defence they come up with

Unless they have arrested you they are not allowed to search you with out your consent. It appears that you never gave this consent so they should have then arrested you took you to the designated arrest area and then searched you not in the public place that it was.

Looks like grounds to me sue the b'stards

By the way there are CCTV active in all airport toilets so you should be able to get your lawyer to get copies of the tapes.

Did you swap contact details with the other chap? Given this'll be a case of your word against the it's having two of you complaining will deny any defence they come up with

If the Old Bill found you swapping contact details with another guy in a public toilet you'd really be in the crapper!

Is it possible you done a dump so potent it set off fire alarms? This happens to me quite often after curry.

Surely you sh!t in the woods, no?

You could go to the IPCC. They will waist sh!t loads of your time and get precisely nothing done.

No they didnt ask , if the could search me, Tjey just said they were going to.

I think Crapping in a wood would have been easier.

I will check with the airport re CCTV

Is it really worth getting all upset about this? Not a great experience I totally agree (it reminds me of when I got singled out by a sniffer dog at Bournemouth station for no reason I know of) but the coppers certainly aren't getting upset about this, you're just putting yourself through more stress by getting in a flap. Just put it down to a bad experience and move on, you'll never get anywhere with this other than wasting your own time.

On a seperate note.........

Surely you sh!t in the woods, no?

No idea what the Scottish equivalent is, but should pretty much mirror this:

P A C E .

Yes, they were far too heavy-handed and a complaint should be made if you want but unsure if a solicitor will get involved for you because they're usually only after cash although Scots ones are slightly better than English because they can't/don't make as much (on the whole).

Agree you should get details of the other person if you can. If you can prove (easy enough) that you don't know each other and you're not in collusion then your case is greatly strengthened.

CCTV goes missing/gets wiped etc asap. Suggest you ring up the airport and take names, details and times of people you speak to and tell them to ensure it is kept and preserved if you're going that far. Then your sol, if you're not doing it on your own, will need to apply to have copies sent or have it viewed immediately. You want to get moving early to preserve the evidence. Did you state at the time you intended to complain (suspect not) and obtain names and numbers of the plod, to whom they report (officer in charge and station) and did you obtain details of the person in charge of the airport? Suspect not, for obvious reasons, but might want to get them now.

That's just for starters and don't forget to throw the Human Rights Act at them as they're plainly in breach of that.

Or you might just want to write a snotty letter to the Chief Constable and / or the press and see what they have to say - the cheap/quick way to make a nuisance of yourself/feel better and then put it to bed (unlikely much'll happen which is a shame as there do seem to be a fair few coppers about just wanting to throw their weight around).

. I said there was someone else in the loo when I went in , but they didnt give a ****.

Ironic

I then left the toilet totally embarrassed and humiliated

I wouldn't worry about it, I often leave toilets feeling this way.

Seems pretty severe action against you. I would have thought they overstepped the mark. I can understand your upset

Sorry but there seems to be two sides to this story. In what way were they heavy handed? Did they drag you out of the cubicle and pin you against the wall? Did they actually arrest you, charge you with anything? Issue you with a fixed penalty? You say they gave you 'a thourough body search'. Was it a strip search? Did they put their fingers up your bottom? Or was it just a pat down search?

You sound pretty upset, and probably understandably if their attitude was as bad as you make out, but it doesn't sound from what you say like they have broken any rules.

As some of you know I have little faith in the Police even less after yesterdays heavy handed situation I found myself in

especially when I am a law abiding citzen and a non smoker

Yesterday I flew from Heathrow to Aberdeen for my connecting flight to Orkney.

 

I Disembarked the BA flight and went straight to departures. I thin went into the Gents. There were two cubilcles

Both were occupied. When one became empty I went in and was pulling my trousers down to have a crap.

All of a sudden there is a loud knock on the cubicle door. I said they would have to wait as I had only just gone in for a crap > I thought the person was desparate for a crap . Then there were two other knocks saying to open the door now FFS pants round my knees I opened the door and there were two coppers. Telling me to get dressed , I was being accused of smoking in the cubicle.

 

I got dressed washed hands etc. and this other guy in the other cubicle was getting a thorough body search . He looked totally ****ed off and protesting his innocence> But the cops were still accusing him of smoking , again he was a non smoker

 

Then the police gave me a thourough body search and went through every bit of my handed luggage to see if I had cigerretes on me. despite telling him I have never smoked let alone having ciggerettews on me . I even suggested they smell my clothes and breath .They went through my wallet/ pockets and took my name and address etc. They said one of you two had to have been smoking . I said there was someone else in the loo when I went in , but they didnt give a ****.

 

I then left the toilet totally embarrassed and humiliated at all this With the gawping eyes of other passengers in the departure lounge looking on

 

Apparently the police were alerted to a silent alarm going off as somebody was smoking and they came mob handed. Two inside the loo and two outside. I dindt know about the two outside till I was free to go .

 

saw if there are any lawyers out there are the police allowed to behave in such a way. I suspect that they took a wee while to get to the toilets and who ever it was probably left several miutes before I and this other guy went in

 

Am I able to make a formal complaint against them or will the police just deny they were heavy handed in their actions.

Are the police allowed to act in such an aggresive manner.?

Please advise.

 

Why did it take four policemen to try and catch somebody who had been smoking in a toilet. No wonder they cannot catch rapists/ murders etc who have absconded .

I'm no lawyer but I'm a retired D.I. that did 30 years in the force. Firstly there's no way they'd deploy 4 coppers to an incident where someone merely smoked in the loos so there was almost certainly something else going on, (unless the local constabulary has a ridiculously generous budget)

I'm speculating here but it sounds like they spotted a known pusher/courier entering the loos shortly before you went in, and you and the other guy happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

From what you've written, I'm afraid the coppers didn't do a lot wrong in terms of procedure. There's one or two things which I can pick out, for instance they should have stated loudly and clearly they were the police when they knocked on the cubicle doors of you and the other guy, and judging from your response it seems like they didn't.

When you say 'heavy handed' I'm afraid all they did was stop and search you, and it happens to thousands of people every year. It wasn't the most pleasant place for it to happen and as an innocent bystander it was an unpleasant experience, but I'm afraid sh1t happens. If you made a complaint it would be a waste of time, there'd be one or two advisories at best for very minor breaches of the procedure but there's no way they'd take any real action.

Unless they have arrested you they are not allowed to search you with out your consent.

I'm afraid that's completely untrue.

and then searched you not in the public place that it was.

The police are allowed to search you in any place that is open to the public.

 

I'm afraid that's completely untrue.

 

 

 

The police are allowed to search you in any place that is open to the public.

If you do not want to be search they would have to arrest you before they could do it as it would be some sort of resisting the powers of the police. if you struggle when they frisk you the first thing they do is arrest you.

They are certainly not allowed to give cavity searches in public.

Thanks for your input jack . I couldn't understand why 4 police were there either just to catch someone smoking . No they did say they were police when they knocked on the doors . It was only when I opened the door I saw they were police . To me they were heavy handed and went through all my pockets . It is something I never experienced before so to me it was heavy handed . If they had said "look sir the smoke alarm has gone off do yo mind if we search etc. but they didn't they just ordered me to take everything out my pockets and then search my pockets . They insisted I was a smoker . My gripe is the way they handled the situation . They were doing a job it's not a human rights act infringement and I'm certainly not a compensation seeker . All they had to do was act in polite and professional manner an not acting in the Sweeney Todd / taggert manner . There are much easy ways to deal with such incidents . Know wonder may innocent bystanders have become disillusioned with the police .

Are you sure you didn't provoke them with your attitude?

If you do not want to be search they would have to arrest you before they could do it as it would be some sort of resisting the powers of the police. if you struggle when they frisk you the first thing they do is arrest you.

Sorry mate, providing they have reasonable grounds the police have every right to search you or your belongings without your consent, and if you don't cooperate they are perfectly entitled to search you by force. Also since '94 the police don't even need to have reasonable grounds in certain cases.

They'll only arrest you if they find something incriminating, suspect you of having committed a serious offence or you commit an offence e.g. try and assault one of the officers.

They are certainly not allowed to give cavity searches in public.

Of course they aren't but I don't believe the original poster stated this happened.

The rules are that a policemen can ask you to remove your coat, jacket and gloves in a public place (unless temporary search powers have been enforced) and if they want you to remove more or want to remove anything that is religiously sensitive it must be done outside of the public view.

Thanks for your input jack . I couldn't understand why 4 police were there either just to catch someone smoking . No they did say they were police when they knocked on the doors . It was only when I opened the door I saw they were police . To me they were heavy handed and went through all my pockets . It is something I never experienced before so to me it was heavy handed . If they had said "look sir the smoke alarm has gone off do yo mind if we search etc. but they didn't they just ordered me to take everything out my pockets and then search my pockets . They insisted I was a smoker . My gripe is the way they handled the situation . They were doing a job it's not a human rights act infringement and I'm certainly not a compensation seeker . All they had to do was act in polite and professional manner an not acting in the Sweeney Todd / taggert manner . There are much easy ways to deal with such incidents . Know wonder may innocent bystanders have become disillusioned with the police .

Yeah sadly there are too many coppers out there with attitudes that don't do them or anyone any favours.

By the way did they give you a copy of the search record? This would confirm what they were looking for and what grounds/legal power they had for searching you.

If you do not want to be search they would have to arrest you before they could do it as it would be some sort of resisting the powers of the police. if you struggle when they frisk you the first thing they do is arrest you.

 

They are certainly not allowed to give cavity searches in public.

You need to brush up on your law, check out section 1 PACE, you don't have to be arrested to be searched....

I must have lost touch with the draconian laws that you now have in the UK since living overseas. But I would find it most offensive to be searched in public with no reason given and would insist that it be carried out at the police station or secure area. If they wanted to carry on then they would have to arrest me as I would refuse to allow them to search and would obviously struggle resulting in myself resisting something or other possibly allowing the police to use batons as per the guy hit in London and killed because he objected to the police attitude.

You need to brush up on your law, check out section 1 PACE, you don't have to be arrested to be searched....

how can they search you if you do not give your consent?

if they do they have to hold you down Subdue you with batons ect if you resist this they arrest you so surely they would have to arrest you if you did not want to be searched even if you have done nothing wrong or are hiding nothing.

It's not confined to northern police,the met have always been the most brutal..in my experience

I think the law is a police officer is allowed to search someone as long as they have reasonable suspicion they are in possession of something illegal like drugs or a knife. However, before they search you, you are entitled to ask to see their warrant staff, get their full name and number, know what they suspect you of and the powers they are enacting to search you in the first place. If any of this isn't forthcoming or correct, you can refuse as a police officer under normal circumstances isn't just allowed to search you. That is illegal under an ECHR ruling from 2010.

However, I believe in some places like airports and such the police can have extra permissions if decreed. But I don't really see how those extra permissions are at all relevant for smoking in a toilet... though they could obviously say they had reasonable suspicion as the alarm went off. But cigarettes aren't illegal, so even if you did have them on you because you were a smoker I don't see how that would prove you guilty.

Best be thankful you're not an ethnic minority, you'd have been renditioned on the spot.

Best be thankful you're not an ethnic minority, you'd have been renditioned on the spot.

Maybe he is thats why he was searched ?

how can they search you if you do not give your consent?

 

if they do they have to hold you down Subdue you with batons ect if you resist this they arrest you so surely they would have to arrest you if you did not want to be searched even if you have done nothing wrong or are hiding nothing.

In most cases they'd take you somewhere fairly discreet where possible and then point out that if you are concerned about the whole thing making a scene they'll explain that they're entitled to search you regardless of your permission and you'll make far less of a scene by just letting them search you and the whole process will be over in less than a minute. Then if you continue to resist they'd usher you up to a wall and use passive restraint techniques if necessary. Any half decent copper though will be courteous, reassuring and be very clear on explaining the process so it wouldn't get to that stage.

I think the law is a police officer is allowed to search someone as long as they have reasonable suspicion they are in possession of something illegal like drugs or a knife. However, before they search you, you are entitled to ask to see their warrant staff, get their full name and number, know what they suspect you of and the powers they are enacting to search you in the first place. If any of this isn't forthcoming or correct, you can refuse as a police officer under normal circumstances isn't just allowed to search you. That is illegal under an ECHR ruling from 2010.

They brought that in just after I retired from the force, so the process may be slightly different to when I was in the force. The info you've stated there would have been automatically given after the search had taken place anyway, it might be given automatically before now since that ruling. Anytime anyone is stopped and searched they will be given (or details on how to obtain it) a written copy of the search record which will explain the police's grounds/legal basis for searching you.

However, I believe in some places like airports and such the police can have extra permissions if decreed. But I don't really see how those extra permissions are at all relevant for smoking in a toilet... though they could obviously say they had reasonable suspicion as the alarm went off. But cigarettes aren't illegal, so even if you did have them on you because you were a smoker I don't see how that would prove you guilty.

Depends on the quantity and provenance of the cigarettes

Maybe he is thats why he was searched ?

Maybe they thought he was Abu Qatada.

Jack. No they didn't . Having never been stopped and searched until the other day . This was all new to me no I didn't get any paper work . It was a very strange situation made more so by being told to open the cubicle door . It's happened so I will just accept it that they were doing their job even if it was totally overkill .

As for stain no I did not provoke them with my attitude . But to be accused of being a smoker etc when I have never smoked did **** off somewhat . They just didn't believe me and kept badgering that I was . Yes I have my views on the forum but so do you and alps . Have you ever been stopped and search . If so how did you feel when it happened . If you were an innocent bystander ?

I have never been stopped and searched. I keep my head down and abide by the laws of the country.

Jack. No they didn't . Having never been stopped and searched until the other day . This was all new to me no I didn't get any paper work . It was a very strange situation made more so by being told to open the cubicle door . It's happened so I will just accept it that they were doing their job even if it was totally overkill .

As for stain no I did not provoke them with my attitude . But to be accused of being a smoker etc when I have never smoked did **** off somewhat . They just didn't believe me and kept badgering that I was . Yes I have my views on the forum but so do you and alps . Have you ever been stopped and search . If so how did you feel when it happened . If you were an innocent bystander ?

Unfortunately I've just remembered Grampian aren't covered by the '84 Police & Criminal Evidence Act as it only applies to England & Wales.

You might find this link useful, they look a bit left wing but they'll probably give you some good advice.

http://www.sacc.org.uk/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=422&catid=44

I have never been stopped and searched. I keep my head down and abide by the laws of the country.

You surprise me. What would you say the moral of the story is? Never sh!t in Scotland?

The moral of the story is don't deal drugs in toilets.

You surprise me. What would you say the moral of the story is? always sh!t on Scotland?

Tokes I corrected it for you

Where should they be dealt?

Where should they be dealt?

Under the table with the aces and kings as per normal

The moral of the story is that nobody would have minded if the Police had been polite and explained why they were doing what they were doing and apologised when they finished. How many courses do they get sent on? Perhaps one that taught them manners like the coppers had when we were younger!

Why would anyone join the police force if you didn't get to kick down a door shouting "this is a raid" now and again?

You were just fulfilling a fantasy for someone that never expected to be checking grannies bags on some far away Scotish island when they joined up. Think of it as a public service.

So did they conduct a thorough body search, or did they just make you empty your pockets?

The smoking in the bogs accusation was, pardon the pun, a smokescreen.

They were suspicious about more sinister goings on, that's also why they avoided announcing they were filth when they knocked the door, to maintain a modicum of surprise.

Barry no they didn't make me empty my pockets despite me offering to take all the contents out . The police inspector . He had two pips on his shoulder . Went through the pockets and took the contents out the other guy searched my hand luggage and did a second check of the contents including going through my wallet . That's why I was not satisfied with the explanation of smoking being given . It may have been a drugs bust . And again I have never done drugs or ever been a supplier. I was in the wrong place at the wrong time . And who ever was guilty had left the loos before the plod arrived . I will put it down to experience . I distrust the police even more after that experience .

As for stain if you ever get stopped and searched for the first time then you will know how I felt . Lets hope your havi g a crap at the time .