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whelk
10-10-2018, 05:03 PM
Victory for freedom? Im actually glad they won the appeal. Nothing against gay people and acceptance but feel like wanting to sue other people who hold religious views ainít right.


Ashers 'gay cake' row: Bakers win Supreme Court appeal http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45789759

Pamplemousse
10-10-2018, 05:24 PM
It's the common sense decision. If the bakers don't want to take people's money then they shouldn't be forced too. I'm sure there will be plenty of others nearby who would gladly take the person's owner, but you can't force people to do something if they choose not to.

If the bakery in question chose to ban gay people from buying anything at all then that would of course be a very different story.

hypochondriac
10-10-2018, 05:32 PM
It's the common sense decision. If the bakers don't want to take people's money then they shouldn't be forced too. I'm sure there will be plenty of others nearby who would gladly take the person's owner, but you can't force people to do something if they choose not to.

If the bakery in question chose to ban gay people from buying anything at all then that would of course be a very different story.Yep. The people buying the cake wasn't the issue, it was the content on the cake they had a problem with.

benjii
10-10-2018, 05:57 PM
http://youtu.be/niCiKpgeRYo

whelk
10-10-2018, 06:18 PM
Did the gay activist deliberately pick a bakers that he knew would be offended or was it chance?

hypochondriac
10-10-2018, 06:21 PM
Did the gay activist deliberately pick a bakers that he knew would be offended or was it chance?Not sure. I think it was by chance after a few days the owners contacted them to say they wouldn't be baking it.

whelk
10-10-2018, 06:23 PM
Not sure. I think it was by chance after a few days the owners contacted them to say they wouldn't be baking it.

Peter Tatchel is on CH4 News defending the Supreme Court ruling. Wasnít expecting that.

whelk
10-10-2018, 06:24 PM
Weird thing to want to put on a cake anyway.

hypochondriac
10-10-2018, 06:26 PM
Peter Tatchel is on CH4 News defending the Supreme Court ruling. Wasnít expecting that.That's good to know. It seems like quite a few people are supporting this from a number of different political positions which is really encouraging and surprising.

aintforever
10-10-2018, 07:59 PM
Not sure what it’s a victory for, religious bigots? Just bake the gay’s cake FFS.

hypochondriac
10-10-2018, 08:17 PM
Not sure what itís a victory for, religious bigots? Just bake the gayís cake FFS.Because the point of equality law is to protect people from discrimination, not to force individuals to promote ideas they disagree with. That was the point of the case and it should be celebrated regardless of if you support the message on the cake or not. I'm glad common sense has prevailed over regressive views like yours.

Manuel
10-10-2018, 08:17 PM
If Pharmacists are permitted to refuse to sell the morning-after-pill because of personal beliefs, which they are, then I see why the bakers shouldn't also enjoy the same rights.

aintforever
10-10-2018, 08:29 PM
Because the point of equality law is to protect people from discrimination, not to force individuals to promote ideas they disagree with. That was the point of the case and it should be celebrated regardless of if you support the message on the cake or not. I'm glad common sense has prevailed over regressive views like yours.

As a point of law it’s correct but I can’t see what’s worth celebrating about it. Bunch of backward religious bigots get to alienate a section of the community - great.

I don’t get the issue, if you don’t agree with gay marriage - don’t marry a gay. Not sure how other gay people marrying effects them in any way whatsoever. I find the homophobia in Christianity disgusting.

hypochondriac
10-10-2018, 08:35 PM
As a point of law itís correct but I canít see whatís worth celebrating about it. Bunch of backward religious bigots get to alienate a section of the community - great.

I donít get the issue, if you donít agree with gay marriage - donít marry a gay. Not sure how other gay people marrying effects them in any way whatsoever. I find the homophobia in Christianity disgusting.How have they alienated anyone? The bakers have served the customers before this cake and said they were happy to serve them again in the future for other cakes. Presumably you would feel the same way about someone baking a cake supporting sharia law in the UK? Or forcing someone to say they support the death penalty if they oppose it? The potential homophobic views of a Christian couple are irrelevant to the case and as stated earlier, it appears that even renowned gay rights activist Peter tatchell supports this decision because it isn't about gay people.

aintforever
10-10-2018, 08:44 PM
How have they alienated anyone? The bakers have served the customers before this cake and said they were happy to serve them again in the future for other cakes. Presumably you would feel the same way about someone baking a cake supporting sharia law in the UK? Or forcing someone to say they support the death penalty if they oppose it? The potential homophobic views of a Christian couple are irrelevant to the case.

If someone wanting a cake supporting Sharia law or the death penalty the bakers should just respect the fact that people have different views and bake the ****ing cake. As long as there is nothing offensive or illegal on there what’s the issue? They are not being asked to agree with any cause just to bake a cake.

The religious idiots should just chill out. Jesus would have baked the guys cake - good will to all men, love thy neighbour and all that.

hypochondriac
10-10-2018, 08:53 PM
If someone wanting a cake supporting Sharia law or the death penalty the bakers should just respect the fact that people have different views and bake the ****ing cake. As long as there is nothing offensive or illegal on there whatís the issue? They are not being asked to agree with any cause just to bake a cake.

The religious idiots should just chill out. Jesus would have baked the guys cake - good will to all men, love thy neighbour and all that.We will have to fundamentally disagree with this one then. I don't believe anyone should be forced to support a cause they disagree with and thankfully the high court recognised this as well. Not baking the cake isn't denying someone the right to think differently. The rights and wrongs of Christianity and religion in general are an irrelevance to the case.

whelk
10-10-2018, 09:11 PM
If someone wanting a cake supporting Sharia law or the death penalty the bakers should just respect the fact that people have different views and bake the ****ing cake. As long as there is nothing offensive or illegal on there whatís the issue? They are not being asked to agree with any cause just to bake a cake.

The religious idiots should just chill out. Jesus would have baked the guys cake - good will to all men, love thy neighbour and all that.

Blinding theology.

Lighthouse
10-10-2018, 09:16 PM
If someone wanting a cake supporting Sharia law or the death penalty the bakers should just respect the fact that people have different views and bake the ****ing cake. As long as there is nothing offensive or illegal on there what’s the issue? They are not being asked to agree with any cause just to bake a cake.

The religious idiots should just chill out. Jesus would have baked the guys cake - good will to all men, love thy neighbour and all that.

That’s the point though, homosexuality is offensive to their beliefs, so they have the right to refuse to make the cake. I in no way agree with their views but they have the right to live by them.

hypochondriac
10-10-2018, 09:33 PM
What if someone wanted to bake a cake that called for a change in the law to allow adults to sleep with children? Do you think they should just respect the fact that people have different views and bake the cake then? Of course homosexuality and paedophilia are not the same thing but the point being made is the same.

Jonnyboy
10-10-2018, 09:38 PM
What if someone wanted to bake a cake that called for a change in the law to allow adults to sleep with children? Do you think they should just respect the fact that people have different views and bake the cake then? Of course homosexuality and paedophilia are not the same thing but the point being made is the same.

What about a cake that said Greb Em By The Pussy??

hypochondriac
10-10-2018, 09:39 PM
What about a cake that said Greb Em By The Pussy??What about one that called for far left antifa violence?

aintforever
10-10-2018, 10:08 PM
That’s the point though, homosexuality is offensive to their beliefs, so they have the right to refuse to make the cake. I in no way agree with their views but they have the right to live by them.

I agree that legally it is correct but I don’t see why a victory for a bunch of homophobic nut jobs is cause for celebration.

Jonnyboy
10-10-2018, 10:08 PM
What about one that called for far left antifa violence?

Lol, here we go with the smashed McDonalds windows again.

Are you still telling everyone that Trump's comments wouldn't be an example of sexual assault?

hypochondriac
10-10-2018, 10:23 PM
I agree that legally it is correct but I donít see why a victory for a bunch of homophobic nut jobs is cause for celebration.Because the victory being celebrated is nothing to do with homophobic nutjobs.

hypochondriac
10-10-2018, 10:23 PM
Lol, here we go with the smashed McDonalds windows again.

Are you still telling everyone that Trump's comments wouldn't be an example of sexual assault?Probably best to discuss Donald trump things on the Donald trump thread. This is the gay cake thread.

Lighthouse
10-10-2018, 10:25 PM
I agree that legally it is correct but I don’t see why a victory for a bunch of homophobic nut jobs is cause for celebration.

The word ‘celebration’ is overdoing it but this is the fairest possible outcome. As far as I can tell these bakers are tolerant of homosexuals and haven’t expressed any aggression, bad will or rudeness towards them. However, what they were asked to do is, to a small extent, promote homosexuality. That’s where people should be allowed to draw the line and IMO why the courts are correct.

Going into all the reasons of why various religions are morally wrong is a never ending argument and I don’t disagree with what you have said.

whelk
11-10-2018, 04:27 AM
The word Ďcelebrationí is overdoing it but this is the fairest possible outcome. As far as I can tell these bakers are tolerant of homosexuals and havenít expressed any aggression, bad will or rudeness towards them. However, what they were asked to do is, to a small extent, promote homosexuality. Thatís where people should be allowed to draw the line and IMO why the courts are correct.

Going into all the reasons of why various religions are morally wrong is a never ending argument and I donít disagree with what you have said.

The activist seems to be as much as a zealot.
Ironic how the like of aintforever has no tolerant and respect for peopleís religious views and in doing so no doubt believes he is a tolerant good guy.

whelk
11-10-2018, 04:28 AM
Probably best to discuss Donald trump things on the Donald trump thread. This is the gay cake thread.

Can a cake be truly gay?

aintforever
11-10-2018, 06:45 AM
The activist seems to be as much as a zealot.
Ironic how the like of aintforever has no tolerant and respect for people’s religious views and in doing so no doubt believes he is a tolerant good guy.

I have no respect for homophobic views, wether they are religious or not.

The bakers were not being asked to support gay marriage, they were providing a service for a person for a cost. It would have been supporting the cause if they did it for free or were asked to put their logo next to the message. The cake, and the message on the cake was Mr Lee's.

I have worked in the creative industry my whole career. I have worked on many things I have not agreed with and certainly don't support. Advertising campaigns, websites or brochures for political parties, campaigns, businesses and religious I dislike or don't agree with. **** me I have even done work for Portsmouth FC - I guess that makes me a Portsmouth supporter?

I my opinion the bakers showed a lack of respect to the customer and they were happy to do that because they are homophobic. Whilst the legal decision was correct (nobody should be forced to print a message they dislike) I find sad that in this day and age it needed to come to this.

benjii
11-10-2018, 06:59 AM
What if someone wanted to bake a cake that called for a change in the law to allow adults to sleep with children? Do you think they should just respect the fact that people have different views and bake the cake then? Of course homosexuality and paedophilia are not the same thing but the point being made is the same.

Probably go with a PIE for that, rather than a cake.

Unless the aim is to entice kids.

hypochondriac
11-10-2018, 08:25 AM
Probably go with a PIE for that, rather than a cake.

Unless the aim is to entice kids.Ha good point. In all seriousness though, aintforever seems to be supporting baking a cake arguing a pro paedophile position. My question would be is there any limit in his view to something that shouldn't be baked on a cake?

Lighthouse
11-10-2018, 09:03 AM
I have no respect for homophobic views, wether they are religious or not.

The bakers were not being asked to support gay marriage, they were providing a service for a person for a cost. It would have been supporting the cause if they did it for free or were asked to put their logo next to the message. The cake, and the message on the cake was Mr Lee's.

I have worked in the creative industry my whole career. I have worked on many things I have not agreed with and certainly don't support. Advertising campaigns, websites or brochures for political parties, campaigns, businesses and religious I dislike or don't agree with. **** me I have even done work for Portsmouth FC - I guess that makes me a Portsmouth supporter?

I my opinion the bakers showed a lack of respect to the customer and they were happy to do that because they are homophobic. Whilst the legal decision was correct (nobody should be forced to print a message they dislike) I find sad that in this day and age it needed to come to this.

At what point then would you draw the line? If you worked for company printing custom designed flags and somebody asked you to produce a dosen Nazi or ISIS flags for their political march, should you have the right to refuse?

Saying you are simply providing a service for a cost doesn’t absolve you of any moral involvement. It would be like our government openly selling weapons to a genocidal dictator in a third world country and saying, "well we don’t nescessarily agree with his ethnic cleansing policy, selling the weapons was purely a business transaction."

All we can ask of society is to be tolerant. My point is that being obliged to be involved in something which you morally disagree with is a step beyond tolerance.

benjii
11-10-2018, 09:30 AM
I, for one, would not make a skate cake. So I have to agree with the decision.

the saint in winchester
11-10-2018, 10:08 AM
At what point then would you draw the line? If you worked for company printing custom designed flags and somebody asked you to produce a dosen Nazi or ISIS flags for their political march, should you have the right to refuse?

Saying you are simply providing a service for a cost doesn’t absolve you of any moral involvement. It would be like our government openly selling weapons to a genocidal dictator in a third world country and saying, "well we don’t nescessarily agree with his ethnic cleansing policy, selling the weapons was purely a business transaction."

All we can ask of society is to be tolerant. My point is that being obliged to be involved in something which you morally disagree with is a step beyond tolerance.

Well reasoned and cogently put, Mr Lighthouse. (thumbs up smiley)

Turkish
11-10-2018, 11:14 AM
I have no respect for homophobic views, wether they are religious or not.

The bakers were not being asked to support gay marriage, they were providing a service for a person for a cost. It would have been supporting the cause if they did it for free or were asked to put their logo next to the message. The cake, and the message on the cake was Mr Lee's.

I have worked in the creative industry my whole career. I have worked on many things I have not agreed with and certainly don't support. Advertising campaigns, websites or brochures for political parties, campaigns, businesses and religious I dislike or don't agree with. **** me I have even done work for Portsmouth FC - I guess that makes me a Portsmouth supporter?

I my opinion the bakers showed a lack of respect to the customer and they were happy to do that because they are homophobic. Whilst the legal decision was correct (nobody should be forced to print a message they dislike) I find sad that in this day and age it needed to come to this.

It didn't need to come to this though did it. The gay bloke should have just accepted their point of view and found another baker. Instead the gay guy flounced off and decided he was going to try and make a point and to sue them rather than respect their views. If he'd shown more understanding for others viewpoint then you're right, it wouldn't have come to this. Now I see all the gay activists are up in arms about it saying how disgusting it all is. As usual they scream for equality and freedom of speech yet when it doesn't go their way they scream about how terrible it is that someone is allowed to have a view different to them.

ericofarabia
11-10-2018, 11:45 AM
Can a cake be truly gay?

How about Fairy Cakes? Cream Puffs?

Wes Tender
11-10-2018, 11:46 AM
I, for one, would not make a skate cake. So I have to agree with the decision.

I would make a Skate cake, but would pee in the batter.

shurlock
11-10-2018, 11:50 AM
I would make a Skate cake, but would pee in the batter.

Good lad.

Lighthouse
11-10-2018, 11:57 AM
I would make a Skate cake, but would pee in the batter.

I’d make it so that there was a red and white striped sponge under the icing.

aintforever
11-10-2018, 01:48 PM
At what point then would you draw the line? If you worked for company printing custom designed flags and somebody asked you to produce a dosen Nazi or ISIS flags for their political march, should you have the right to refuse?

Saying you are simply providing a service for a cost doesn’t absolve you of any moral involvement. It would be like our government openly selling weapons to a genocidal dictator in a third world country and saying, "well we don’t nescessarily agree with his ethnic cleansing policy, selling the weapons was purely a business transaction."

All we can ask of society is to be tolerant. My point is that being obliged to be involved in something which you morally disagree with is a step beyond tolerance.

My line would be somewhere below gay cakes and above genocide promotion, but then my beliefs are not based on a centuries old work of fiction.

My point was not that the law is wrong, more that the winners of the court battle are a bunch of homophbic arse holes. The guy who sued them is probably also a bit of a nob as Turkish suggests but maybe he’s just fed up of homophobic attitudes and was just trying to make a point.

Batman
11-10-2018, 02:23 PM
Personally, I have no time for religious beliefs like this. However, we are way too far down the road of tolerating other religions bizarre ways to stop this.

benjii
11-10-2018, 02:39 PM
I would make a Skate cake, but would pee in the batter.


I’d make it so that there was a red and white striped sponge under the icing.

Actually, yeah!

I'd do them a chocolate "log". A real Cleveland Steamer of a cake.

With **** in t'batter and red and white icing inside. With the white made out of jizz and the red made out of dirty blood.

The ****ing ****ers.

Lighthouse
11-10-2018, 08:46 PM
My line would be somewhere below gay cakes and above genocide promotion, but then my beliefs are not based on a centuries old work of fiction.

My point was not that the law is wrong, more that the winners of the court battle are a bunch of homophbic arse holes. The guy who sued them is probably also a bit of a nob as Turkish suggests but maybe he’s just fed up of homophobic attitudes and was just trying to make a point.

The thing is I’m not entirely sure what his point is; that conservative Christians object to people being homosexual? It’s hardly news and not going to change any time soon. As Turkish said, there are plenty of other bakers who would have had no objection to making the cake and as such the court case seems like a complete waste of time. What would they have achieved had they won? Forcing somebody to make a cake which contradicts their beliefs. It’s not going to lead to acceptance, more likely resentment.