speculator

'Southampton were not in a much different position to the rest, other than minus 10 points' 'Norwich City and Charlton Athletic had no money to spend in the transfer window.' Laugh a minute

Matt Le Tissier deliberately trying to kick a ball out of play to win a bet as he wrote about in his book? Some careers get tainted as it has been suggested but some are strangely bulletproof even though their actions don't actually help the team to gain a positive edge like your examples above or the examples of Henry or Maradonna. There is cheating for the team (professional foul) and then there is a more selfish kind. Which is worse?

Don't they have one already, called Soccer Saturday? Deliberate handballs and diving are one of the same thing. Difficult for a ref in the heat of the moment to determine really cynical attempts as oppose to a players natural reaction at the point of failure to reach out a hand or take a dive. What about pre-meditated attempts to cheat for personal gain? Racing has the Jockey club who at least try to identify non-triers or suspicious activities but what does football have? We had the incident involving Bury a few seasons back but watching some of the action especially in lower leagues there are times when you can at least question the validity of some goals and the way the opposition are almost 'invited' to score. Is it simply bad play or an organised scam? Very difficult to determine cheating from a professional foul unless you treat them as the same thing. Equally, how do you really know the Carlisle player and his associates did not have a 'good bet' on Lambert to be first goal scorer knowing he would take any penalty Saints were awarded? Now I don't believe that allegation has any truth whatsoever in this instance because it was a televised cup final, it was clearly deliberate / couldn't help himself but only to stop an obvious goal scoring opportunity anyway and professional pride was clearly at stake for all players on the pitch. However, if we use it as an example that behind some deliberate acts and in lesser games that potentially more serious motives could be at play a la Bury and determining what is cheating on the field may only be the tip of the iceberg. Or do we believe that football is absolutely squeaky clean and on the field cheating is purely down to players trying to gain an advantage over the opposition and no more? Interesting thread and interesting comments about what constitutes cheating.

View from the Top? The poster who likes to think he is always right but merely writes more robustly than others to convince himself of his invincible self-belief. Wrong again and if I am the same as these posters or Mornington Crescent or any of the others I have been accused of being then why am I still posting? Just because I agree with some of the stuff they post doesn't mean I am them even despite in some instances I share the same connection but is that against the rules? Can members of the same family use different usernames? You probably still live at home with your Mum doesn't she use the tinternet and have a username thingy or is she a Man U fan as well? It's amusing at times how some posters choose to bury their heads from reality or turn away from difficult issues. The Cortese boos is one prime example and the fact MLT had some empathy with those booing but it is mind boggling to read people suggest it was to do with the dreaded mexican wave when it was during the on pitch build up before the kick off. Then the two big plastics turn up for the glory game as witnessed by those outside the stadium. Had they been small time fans they would have been slated and all you choose to do is to try and deflect focus from some worthy points. Are you living in denial VFTT? Supporting Man U is so much easier don't you think but Saints are great for a bit of profile raising as you're no doubt a little boy lost at Old Trafford or on the Manc forums. Still, your team are looking good for another view from the top at the end of the season and anything is better than Chelsea as Arsenal will probably run out of steam with the Barcelona games, pity. Hope the yellow and green doesn't confuse you as COYRs is wonderfully generic don't you think?

LOL! Such is Winchester Red's arrogance it deserves a muted boo....... Cortese was booed in blocks 120-123 and only has himself to blame for his badly timed and worded press releases. I have no doubt in the man's business ability but most would consider it churlish to suggest we have not achieved as much as Charlton or Noriwch and probably more given where we started. MLT on TalkSport after the game made some well made points so much so that perhaps he may have joined in with a murmured boo? Mawhinney, the Mexican Wave and all things Carlisle are all red herrings. The Mexican Wave was about 60 minutes afterwards anyway! Cortese got a small wake up call, that is all and needs to take that into inconsideration when he starts outlining us as the English Barcelons and with the long term stability of a top 6 Premiership club. Has anybody told him our turn out for finals and major games never matches our turn out for more hum drum games so in the face of some poor PR where is the revenue going to come from? Or will he now retract his comments and publicly back Pardew or was the post presentation hug some recognition of the boos? Or was he still doing the Mexican Wave and slipped? Who knows except the majority of Saints fan are at best unreliable witnesses or unable to see or hear the reality as normal. Its no big deal so why deny it and we all know why he was booed - a trophy for seeing off competition from 47 teams that in general were very mediocre, doesn't detract from his comments or Pardew's significant acheivements. Cortese to me looked like an embarrassed outsider against the clearly elated Liebherr. The only person I saw looking more sheepish was Crouch followed by the mawkish looking McMenemy. See you at the Orient game men? All in all a very enjoyable day.

Interesting, you don't hear anyone blaming Brown but the majority think he is an idiot. Hate to think what they thought of him if they blamed him as well. Laying the blame at the door of the investment banks is also interesting. If there was a 100 car pile up with exploding tankers and the sort of carnage that would live forever in the memory who would you blame? The drivers or the authorities who decided to relax or turn a blind eye to speed limits or road safety measures or hand control to another agency all together? When Thatcher came to power in 1979 she was villified and hated until her Falklands coup in 1982. However, in that time she turned around a Labour disaster and what was perceived at the time as a massive deficit and made her cabinet push the boundaries of cost cutting regardless of currying favour with the electorate and those who doubted her actions. We all need to remember that it wan't until Thatcher and Howe's widely reviled budget in 1981(?) that the economy at that time began to turn around and Chancellor Howe may not have had the backbone to deliver it without being 'persuaded'. Their surgey on the economy was drastic and I am concerned about the Tories approach this time unless they are going to renegade on their promises should they win the next election. If Cable was in the Labour camp I would be compelled to vote Labour for the first time in my life but living in a Tory stronghold what would be the point? I never vote in general elections as living in my area of Hampshire they would vote in a squirrel if they stuck a blue rosette on it. These are worrying times and perhaps if Brown gets re-elected he won't be quite so shy to follow Thatchers path. He is certainly single minded enough but recently his determination I think has been muted by the looming election. At least he is not a PR politician as Blair and now more worringly Cameron who seems intent on using the Blairite text books and in my opinion he lacks gravitas as a serious politician and merely someone who went to Eton and no doubt won some public speaking awards. It wouldn't be so bad if he had politicians of any clout behind him and Osborne is an embarrassment and Hague hasn't exactly covered himself in glory recently and who does that leave us with Mr Hush Puppies himself? I tend to agree with NickH that against my better judgement Labour more over Brown and a major cabinet reshuffle should stay put and sort out this mess. A mess that is many, many times worse than the £11bn or so Thatcher turned around and so someone who is willing to dig in for the good of the country than there own personal legacy and media profile should be PM. Brown is the only one of a poor bunch and Cameron and Osborne are beginning to be found wanting as purveyours of rhetoric and soundbites but no real plan - at least not a realistic one that they are communicating to the electorate. As for Clegg and Cable, I always feel it is easy to challenge and make bold statments when there is no earthly chance of ever being solely responsible for the government of this country. Cable could really steal the headlines and possibly the votes if he defected left or right. Afterall, they are all so close to together he really only has to subtlely side step shuffle in a direction of his choosing and we would almost definitely get a chance to see if he is as good as he would like us to believe. Shell is not the UK or a bank for that matter but at least he has held a job. Come on Vince lets see you really put yourself in the firing line.

Today was the first time at a competitive game this season I saw a somewhat sour looking Leon Crouch outside the stadium followed by a strangley apologetic looking and smirking Lawrie McMenemy. They were about 10metres apart one following the other and looked curiously odd and out of sorts with their surroundings. No one acknowledged their presence and if they did the muted boos for Cortese were louder. Perhaps it was a culture shock from Stoneham Lane or concern of being identified as our biggest plastic fans only there for the day out and preventing more regular match day fans from attending. Still that's the joy of Corporate football I suppose and means Lawrie can still enjoy the big occasion presumably hanging on to the last vestiges of his celebrity status or the coat tails of his wealthy and embarrassed looking friend. You may have missed them as there was nothing to suggest they were red and white not even a scarf or badge. It was also the first time I heard MLT make comments on the radio after the game that were clearly out of step with the majority of the fanbase. MLT thinks there maybe a risk Cortese will replace his manager and whilst I didn't see the Sky coverage judging by the comments of those who did he allegedly weighed in to the Cortese/Pardew rift debate and judging by his comments I head on the radio he is clearly on the side of the latter and has concerns over the CEO's expectations. It's the first time then that the evidence of the winds of change have finally blown through this club for good and past 'legends' and 'benefactors' left to dine on dust and sour grapes.

Probably because you were on the A233.

The boos for Cortese were clearly audible but done in fairly muted way so some fans could let Cortese know that his apparent lack of backing or unreanonable expectations of the team were out of kilter with some of the fans opinion - as you suggest. MLT on Talk Sport on the way home said that we could go up next season without adding to the squad provided the CEO doesn't do something stupid and decide a change of manager is required. I thought his comments in the programme were also more dream land than realistic aspiration regarding what makes a top 6 Premiership club and the Barcelona comparison and if that is what he truly believes is achievable at our club then I fear no one will live up to his expectation. I think a message to reign in is sights and criticisms is well over due and I congratulate those who felt a modest message was required.

United? Southern Red? You'll be telling us you went with Mr Chorley next, which would explain a great deal about your 'style'. 19C? Mornington Crescent? Any others?

I wouldn't. According to the sat nav and Google maps the M1 route is 4 miles and 1 minute shorter at 305 miles but the M42 and M40 does not have the horrendous roadworks on the M1 between the M25 and M6 junctions. I travel from London to Glasgow very regularly and never use the M1 especially South of the M6 junction.

Good idea and join the queue with the Carlisle fans coming down the M40 from the M6 / M42. There is a better way and it doesn't involve parking at tube stations which is pointless if you have booked parking at the stadium.

Quite simply football violence is not the same as 'drunken oiks' fighting outside a pub on a Saturday night. Football violence is deliberate , organised and malevolent intent to incite, cause or inflict bodily harm onto others whereas a few drunk yobs having a go after 10 pints is just alcohol fuelled stupidity and a night in the cells and picked up by Mum and Dad in the morning will lead to remorse. Not always, of course but have you ever met a remorseful Football Hooligan or a criminal involved in racially motivated crimes? The reason so much is made of football hooliganism is it's sheer pointlessness and that even in the 21st C we have idiots acting like they can incite fear and violence and act above the law as part of a mob rule philosophy. They can't and anyone involved should be punished and banned for life. Your comparison is irrelevant and sometimes you cannot defend the indefensible. Sometimes the real enemy is from within.

I don't condone your example of the bloke getting away with it and he should have been hauled before the courts. However, the point you are missing with regards to the seriousness of football violence is that in many cases is the intent. The intent in many situations is to deliberately and in an organised way incite and commit violent acts on opposing supporters. If the authorities don't come down hard on those behind these crimes you are condoning some despicable acts bordering on anarchy. Gang warfare, racially motivated attacks are all equally seriousness because of the wider implications on society as a whole. Let it go and he go back 30 years when the dinosaurs roamed the streets and thw more they stamp on them and make them extinct the better. The bloke you mention was far from organised and his intent may have been questionable if he was mentally ill / alcoholic and in need of help not punishment or maybe he was just a single yob making trouble but usually those types act in packs. It's a bravery thing. As for drunk drivers yes they are sad and despicable individuals but even if they kill someone there is rarely if any intent on murder just sheer stupidity that they are above the law the laws of science that they are in control of their reactions despite being under the influence of alcohol. They are still punished severely and are usually full of remorse not a trait found in hooligans as we can see from this thread in places. I believe the police and the courts stamp hard on football hooligans because of the organisation behind their real intent to beat the living daylights out of someone just because they don'y like the shirt they are wearing.

Best news of the season if you ask me. Sincerely, hope that they get banned from all football grounds until they grow up and get many weeks litter picking duty on the M3 starting this Sunday morning. If they really want a proper ruck join those who have to do it for real and who can't go home to their families/mummies afterwards to sleep off their alcohol induced bravey. I don't feel one iota of sorrow for these idiots and my only regret is that I have taken the bait to your pathetic stance. If you support football hooliganism proven or otherwise then on the social ladder you are fighting for a rung with Nick Griffin.