Pompey Takeover Saga

talkSPORTDrive ‏ @talkSPORTDrive

West Ham sign a keeper they don't need from Portsmouth. Wonder if that's actually WHU making sure Pompey don't go into liquidation #6pts

talkSPORTDrive ‏ @talkSPORTDrive

Is Vaz Te injured? West Ham should go out and sign 5-6 players just in case. Make them Portsmouth players just to save the #6pts

Beginning to like this guy

I thought that he would either get his £17m or take possession of the ground?

This is my understanding. Anyone who attempts to purchase the assets (i.e. Fratton Park) would have to accept that there is a Land Registry hold of £17m over it in place and owed to Chainrai. Although this is the part that TB has been talking about contesting because of the complicated Portpin/CSI relationship. I'm sure the £17m charge exists to someone though.

This is my understanding. Anyone who attempts to purchase the assets (i.e. Fratton Park) would have to accept that there is a Land Registry hold of £17m over it in place and owed to Chainrai. Although this is the part that TB has been talking about contesting because of the complicated Portpin/CSI relationship. I'm sure the £17m charge exists to someone though.

I think the charge is over the club & therefore it's assets, not Fratton Park specifically. Certainly, Birch seemed to be saying that if Poopey get liquidated Chinny will still get first call on the money, but only what he can raise. Which is very different to him getting a guaranteed £17 mill. (Though, I suppose he could buy Nottarf Krap from the liquidator, but there wouldn't be much point then because his charge would no longer apply. Liquidation is his worst nightmare, if not ours.)

What are the odds on Westwood getting evicted from St Marys, if they survive until then ?

think we should avoid the potential trouble that would cause by not letting him in in the first place. A lot of Skates think he is a pr*ck but if we try to throw him out once he is in they will try to prevent it

think we should avoid the potential trouble that would cause by not letting him in in the first place. A lot of Skates think he is a pr*ck but if we try to throw him out once he is in they will try to prevent it

I thought that he would either get his £17m or take possession of the ground?

My thoughts

The council could take compulsory purchase of the ground and they would only have to pay the true market value of the property. They would not have to pay £17m.

£17m is secured against the assets of PFC2010 not the land? If PFC are toast the debenture is worthless?

If a homeowner goes bust for £80k the building society sell the house at auction for what ever they can get. They don't leave it empty until someone pays £80k

My thoughts

 

The council could take compulsory purchase of the ground and they would only have to pay the true market value of the property. They would not have to pay £17m.

 

£17m is secured against the assets of PFC2010 not the land? If PFC are toast the debenture is worthless?

 

If a homeowner goes bust for £80k the building society sell the house at auction for what ever they can get. They don't leave it empty until someone pays £80k

But it doesn't get you off the £80k. If the house sells for less, you still owe the difference - just unsecured. You could get out of that by declaring yourself bankrupt. That's the path.

We really don't know enough here about Chinny's charge. He could take possession I guess. Also I'm not convinced the Council can just summarilly issue a CPO, surley that would be subject to all sorts of legal challenge.

Several chapters of this book remain to be written I feel.

so is West Ham providing the skates with a "significant fee" for a reserve keeper that won't even get in their bench their way of ensuring the skates survive till May and the 6 points stay on their tally? Clever move.

The pleasure of seeing WHU finishing 3rd & f**king it up in the play offs would give me nearly the same pleasure as P*mpey going down the toilet

My thoughts

 

The council could take compulsory purchase of the ground and they would only have to pay the true market value of the property. They would not have to pay £17m.

 

£17m is secured against the assets of PFC2010 not the land? If PFC are toast the debenture is worthless?

 

If a homeowner goes bust for £80k the building society sell the house at auction for what ever they can get. They don't leave it empty until someone pays £80k

I think TB was looking to get a fair valuation on the ground to prevent Chinny from getting Pompey in a headlock. If the market value is £5m, he can therefore sell the ground for £5m. I suspect Chinny would rather elect to keep the ground and liquidate the club, selling the land to Tescos, Lidl or whoever.

The biggest issue however is the wages. Unless TB can shed the wage bill and offload players permanently, they'll never sell the club. The best outcome is for all the players to agree to terminate their contracts for no payment. That won't happen of course...

This is my understanding. Anyone who attempts to purchase the assets (i.e. Fratton Park) would have to accept that there is a Land Registry hold of £17m over it in place and owed to Chainrai. Although this is the part that TB has been talking about contesting because of the complicated Portpin/CSI relationship. I'm sure the £17m charge exists to someone though.

I think the charge is over the club & therefore it's assets, not Fratton Park specifically. Certainly, Birch seemed to be saying that if Poopey get liquidated Chinny will still get first call on the money, but only what he can raise. Which is very different to him getting a guaranteed £17 mill. (Though, I suppose he could buy Nottarf Krap from the liquidator, but there wouldn't be much point then because his charge would no longer apply. Liquidation is his worst nightmare, if not ours.)

There are, I think, two separate charges. First, Portpin issued a debenture against PFC; this made the company a secured creditor to the tune of £17M. This is also where the £17M figure comes from. Second, Portpin holds a charge over Fratton Park, which prevents any sale or disposition of the property without Portpin's say so; no specific sum is mentioned here. This is how it shows in the Land Registry entry:

(05.11.2009) RESTRICTION: No disposition of the registered estate by the proprietor of the registered estate is to be registered without a written consent signed by the proprietor for the time being of the charge dated 6 October 2009 in favour of Portpin Limited referred to in the Charges Register or without a certificate signed by each conveyancer of the Charge that the provisions of the Charge have been complied with or that they do not apply to the disposition.

I think Birch is saying that in both cases, Chainrai will simply have to take what he can get in the event of liquidation. The debenture will only be worth what the liquidator can get for the club's assets - bear in mind that when a business is liquidated, there is no guarantee of secured creditors being paid in full. Fratton Park, as an asset of PFC2010, will be handled in exactly the same way. That bit does surprise me, as I'd have assumed that the Land Registry entry would be the clincher.

Exile in Somerset

Saturday, March 10, 2012 at 11:50 PM

Interesting on The Football League Show they are making the point that all Stains' players come frrom anywhere except Southampton - if things go belly up and you don't get promoted, I wonder how long they'll stick around. Not long, you'll need to sell them to pay off the debt.

Yeah right!!!!

The pleasure of seeing WHU finishing 3rd & f**king it up in the play offs would give me nearly the same pleasure as P*mpey going down the toilet

You're not the only one... they do need to get up this season as

Season ticket money for next season is already accounted for

Owe at least £21m to Sheffield United between now & 2013

Made £17m trading loss - the article isn't specific on the period but I would hazard a guess that it's probably before Sam's latest signing spree

http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2012/02/20/in-conversation-with-david-sullivan-part-6/

Oh, and the debts are over £100m... absolutely scary! No wonder the fans get so tetchy when they can't beat Donny at home.

But it doesn't get you off the £80k. If the house sells for less, you still owe the difference - just unsecured. You could get out of that by declaring yourself bankrupt. That's the path.

 

We really don't know enough here about Chinny's charge. He could take possession I guess. Also I'm not convinced the Council can just summarilly issue a CPO, surley that would be subject to all sorts of legal challenge.

 

Several chapters of this book remain to be written I feel.

I would have the remainder of debt against my name. PFC2010 would cease to exist. The debt would not transfer to PFC2012bluesquareleague

We really don't know enough here about Chinny's charge.

IIRC, there's a 'secured charge' document on the Companies House database for oldCo. I assume this document is to do with Chainrai?

Another fan "getting it"

http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=424&fid=203&sty=2&act=1&mid=2115174559

The ill-feeling is spreading. Good. Maybe a Kony2012 style movement is in order to speed things up a little, however the organic growth of realisation that they're a DFC bunch of SB's is heartening.

I think Birch is saying that in both cases, Chainrai will simply have to take what he can get in the event of liquidation. The debenture will only be worth what the liquidator can get for the club's assets - bear in mind that when a business is liquidated, there is no guarantee of secured creditors being paid in full. Fratton Park, as an asset of PFC2010, will be handled in exactly the same way. That bit does surprise me, as I'd have assumed that the Land Registry entry would be the clincher.

So let me try and get this straight?!

If they are liquidated can the liquidator sell FP even though it has the land registry entry? If not and portpin say no and he can't then sell it what happens to FP?

LOL just found this on Wiki about W**stwood http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Portsmouth_Football_Club_Westwood , At bottom of popular culture!!

Another fan "getting it"

 

http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=424&fid=203&sty=2&act=1&mid=2115174559

 

The ill-feeling is spreading. Good. Maybe a Kony2012 style movement is in order to speed things up a little, however the organic growth of realisation that they're a DFC bunch of SB's is heartening.

I love it when a fan from another club goes on there to vent his opinion and they call for him to be banned because they shouldnt have to put up with those kind of messages. Such a pathetic club with pathetic fans

I don't get it. Yes, they'll get points deductions etc if they don't go up because they'll be in administration. But is that not a bit late? The punishment arrives when it's too late for creditors and most the damage is done. It seems they've decided the only way to pay their debts is to take on bigger debts short-term and gamble on promotion.

 

I know the owner said it was their only option, and I get that, but perhaps it shouldn't be an option at all? Sooner or late the FL and PL will need to adopt a prevention rather than cure approach.

Surely the whole point of the PP was to ensure that this sort of thing didn't happen?

LOL just found this on Wiki about W**stwood http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Portsmouth_Football_Club_Westwood , At bottom of popular culture!!

Love it. 'John is also known by Southampton Supporters as TCWTB'

Anyone seen some of the comments on Pompey online

BIRCH is to blame for the current plight, yes ok he has to ship players about , but cant he do it on a fkin monday to at least give whoevers left a small chance of forming an understanding , and as for him being a football man ? you sure , what other team in any league has one goalkeeper ??

Initially we were told that £500K had to be raised and we had to 'pack the park'. Now we've received £800K from the Football League and fees for Lawrence, Huseklepp, Henderson and soon Mullins. In return the team has been gutted and we have close to zero chance of avoiding relegation. Please don't bother to exhort us to' pack the park' if you are not willing to share information on the income. You may be a good Administrator and I accept there is no alternative but I have the uncomfortable feeling that you're making sure your fees are in place before proceeding to new business. Perhaps you should spend more time looking for a buyer than shipping out players because, surely, every deal you do actually makes the club less saleable.

 

Over to you Mr Birch.

Just please draw one game pompey, we cant beat them but don't let them beat us

also agree about the scum game, cannot lose that, no fookin way!

Hahahahahahahaha they're all starting to get twitchier than Redknapp about April 7th :lol:

the Canadian billionaire mention in the papers today, saying Pinavi has introduced him to Birch. He does suermarkets and sperhaps sell FP and then open up elsewhwere.Also I thought Henderson etc didnt want to go a few weeks back, I assume he left his phone on this time now he is only getting 75% of his wages lol

John is also known as by his rival club, which happens to be the biggest club in the south of England (Southampton FC) as TCWTB.

Just had to put that in!!!

So let me try and get this straight?!

 

If they are liquidated can the liquidator sell FP even though it has the land registry entry? If not and portpin say no and he can't then sell it what happens to FP?

That's the bit I'm struggling to work out too! I'd have thought that the charge on Fratton Park, which is quite clear in the Land Registry entry (though apparently not clear enough for Ho's legal eagle mates on POL to spot!) would override any considerations of ownership, liquidation or no liquidation. The paragraph I quoted earlier makes it quite clear that the proprietor - any proprietor - cannot sell the ground unless they have the consent of the charge holder, which is of course Portpin.

But Birch's comments to Solent state otherwise; he said quite clearly that in the event of liquidation ownership of Fratton Park would not simply revert to Chainrai. Does this mean that in a case of liquidation a charge holder simply gets whatever the liquidator can sell the asset for, and their consent is effectively given whether they like it or not? To me that doesn't ring true, but then I'd have thought that Trevor Birch would know a lot more about these things than I do.

There's no way West Ham could shake their £100m debt by going into administration because the vast majority is football debt.

It would have to be paid in full for them to be given their golden share back. There situation is promotion or bust.

...... unless we believe clubs of a certain size and standing can't go bust...?

But Birch's comments to Solent state otherwise; he said quite clearly that in the event of liquidation ownership of Fratton Park would not simply revert to Chainrai. Does this mean that in a case of liquidation a charge holder simply gets whatever the liquidator can sell the asset for, and their consent is effectively given whether they like it or not? To me that doesn't ring true, but then I'd have thought that Trevor Birch would know a lot more about these things than I do.

I've checked this out and had it confirmed by a friend who works for one of the big accountants in London.

The liquidator sells the asset for what he considers to be a fair price (or what he can get for it) and that money goes to the charge holder.

FP wouldn't simply become the property of BC

I've checked this out and had it confirmed by a friend who works for one of the big accountants in London.

 

The liquidator sells the asset for what he considers to be a fair price (or what he can get for it) and that money goes to the charge holder.

 

FP wouldn't simply become the property of BC

Thanks for that - useful to know. I hadn't thought that Fratton Park would be owned by Chainrai, but that the charge would mean he had to give consent for its sale. In the event of liquidation then, that won't be the case, and he'll just have to accept what the liquidator gets for it. Either way, I still reckon the most likely buyer of Fratton park is Tesco!

Depends if TB has any side agendas (as if....)

There might be a possibility that he got the TV money released by the FL in exchange for a side agreement that the ground is sold to the council or something similar with the FL thinking ahead (I know, not likely) to the reforming of the club.

I think there are a few agendas that we're not aware of.

He is HMRC's man for a start. What exactly is their preferred outcome?

http://gashedzine.forumandco.com/t543-portsmouth-fc-now-only-84-more-loathsome-than-any-other-league-club

They don't think much of them do they:)

Depends if TB has any side agendas (as if....)

 

There might be a possibility that he got the TV money released by the FL in exchange for a side agreement that the ground is sold to the council or something similar with the FL thinking ahead (I know, not likely) to the reforming of the club.

^ This (or 'liquidation lite' in my conspiracy theorist lingo)

TB might want Pompey to exist long enough for the football creditors ruling to come out where the HMRC would receive a bigger slice of the parachute payments.

I love the way that rangers players took a 75% hair cut yet Pompey players only deferred 25%.

Dirty cheating inbred skate mother f*****s.

That's all for now.

Dirty cheating inbred skate mother f*****s.

 

That's all for now.

Sums up the thread tbh

My thoughts:

http://notplayedonpaper.blogspot.com/2012/03/not-called-pay-up-pompey.html

TB might want Pompey to exist long enough for the football creditors ruling to come out where the HMRC would receive a bigger slice of the parachute payments.

 

I love the way that rangers players took a 75% hair cut yet Pompey players only deferred 25%.

I don't think that's in his remit.

My thoughts:

 

http://notplayedonpaper.blogspot.com/2012/03/not-called-pay-up-pompey.html

Good read, thanks

so what is the record for a change in league positions for local rivals in less than three seasons?

People blessed with autistic tendencies will be able to give me the definite figure but I reckon the swing in league positions must be approx 74 since August 09.

Us bottom of League One with pompey in the Prem, to where we are today.

An astonishing change in fortunes.

I would have posted this on the main board but there are too many nutters over there who want to analyse every full stop and it gets more boring than Alan Shearer chatting to Michael Owen about scatter cushions.

So as fratton crumbles, we are living in a golden age, surely it couldn't come to pass that we pull away at the top and relegate them on the same day next month?

Is Karma really that smart?

Probably not....but the planets do seem to be moving into an intriguing formation.

And let's face it, if we manage to get up this year, battling out draws against the likes of West Brom won't be as exciting as the last two league campaigns and the trip to Wembley.

Soak it up everyone, we are living in special times.

LMAO. theyve only gone and won family club of the year at the football league awards. funny as f u c k

jordansibley Jordan Sibley

Pompey win Family Club of the Year. I chuckled too. If the irony isn't enough, they have 'bought' two tables at tonight's awards. #saintsfc

7 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

LMAO. theyve only gone and won family club of the year at the football league awards. funny as f u c k

anyone who still thinks that they are getting away with it should have a look at the league table

jordansibley Jordan Sibley

 

 

 

Pompey win Family Club of the Year. I chuckled too. If the irony isn't enough, they have 'bought' two tables at tonight's awards. #saintsfc

 

7 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

ROTFPMSL keep it in the family, all blood relatives! I just bet all the small businesses who will be mugged once again & charities will be over the moon for them!

Good old plucky Poopey

is that the award for treating the family of a former player with disdain and trying to rip them off £500 for some sandwiches or the award for shafting local family businesses and children's charities?

Either way it is obviously someone's idea of a joke.

Tis a club for local people.

Didn't see much of a Fratton Park family atmosphere when young kids were screaming abuse at our players taking throw-ins.

Oh well, I suspect I know whose laughing now.

My thoughts:

 

http://notplayedonpaper.blogspot.com/2012/03/not-called-pay-up-pompey.html

An excellent summing up. Well written.

Our fishy friends over on Pompey Online are really panicking over the derby game

who's going to this then and who's giving it a miss? already bricking it already, got the tickets a few weeks ago but looking at our situation now it looks like we will already be relegated by then or could be relegated in the actual game...

My biggest concern is that the result of this match could actually relegate us - we never actually managed that when they went out of the Prem, our 4-1 win didn't help them but it wasn't the result that sent them down. So they will certainly have absolute bragging rights if they beat us and we are relegated due to it. I really hold no confidence in the result at all, I was worried back in 2003 when we had to go there, but it wasn't anywhere as near as bad as it is now.

 

All I can say is take your calculators with you to keep tally on the score, especially with the feckless, clueless, pointless and senseless Ashclown between the sticks.

fear were in for a massacre.

I'm going, couldn't give a toss about the result, let them see who the biggest club in Hampshire is

We teased them for not selling out their allowance, but now we are in the same situation..

Oh dear... :lol:

jordansibley Jordan Sibley

 

Pompey win Family Club of the Year. I chuckled too. If the irony isn't enough, they have 'bought' two tables at tonight's awards. #saintsfc

 

7 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Neil Allen at the Portsmouth News has just re-tweeted the above. I feel a bun fight coming on....

Neil Allen at the Portsmouth News has just re-tweeted the above. I feel a bun fight coming on....

Wonder what JS's username on here is (May have been some hints elsewhere BTW)

Legend

Just hope he has a hotel room booked & doesn't have to drive home

He & the lads deserve the party

@pn_neil_allen: RT @pompeytrust: @officialpompey Mr Sibley, as Spokesman for Southampton FC, should apologise to the PFC Community team for his comments, shameful

Neil Allen ‏ @pn_neil_allen

@officialpompey Incredible cheap shot from @jordansibley on a night when so many people at #Pompey deserve credit for winning an award.

Charlie Sharp ‏ @Charlie_Sharp94

@jordansibley You absolute b*****d. You look like a *****, you are the 'spokesman' for a team full of ****s. #PUP #WeWillNeverDie #Pompey