What are you listening to?

Seems only fitting to play some Beastie Boys.

RIP MCA.

Jack White - Blunderbuss. Basically, the new White Stripes album we've waited 5 years for.

Pyjama Club. Self titled album from Neil Finn and his missus.

LHF-Keepers Of The Light.

Sleep - Dopesmoker (reissue)

The new Bonnie Raitt album, Slipstream. It's excellent. She's a wonderful singer; she has an impeccable taste in songs; and she plays a mean slide-guitar.

The new Bonnie Raitt album, Slipstream. It's excellent. She's a wonderful singer; she has an impeccable taste in songs; and she plays a mean slide-guitar.

Really like Slipstream. BR rarely fails to deliver. Also enjoying this:- http://thewhitebuffalo.com/?page_id=12

"Love Will Tear Us Apart" by Oysterband and June Tabor

"Love Will Tear Us Apart" by Oysterband and June Tabor

Christ save us all, that's terrible...

Christ save us all, that's terrible...

Why? Its different and shows how great that song really is - the very best music and lyrics always work in any style... well almost, but this song does work in an acoustic style... not the best interpretation of the classic, but not hideous and I say that as someone who has the original single!

DJ Shadow - In Tune and On Time

I've spent the last week listening to "Portugal. The Man.".

Anyone who has FIFA12 will probably be familiar with one of the tracks, this one in particular.

Christ save us all, that's terrible...

No, it isn't! You just need to listen with an open mind (and ears!).

This may be an utterly subjective, pointless argument, but it's one I'm prepared to have. That's insipid and gutless, and (to these ears) relies for its justification on the notion that the faux-authenticity of the folk-rock scene is excuse enough for its (the tune's and the scene's) creative retardation.

And the idea that "the very best music and lyrics always work in any style", mentioned above, is just patent nonsense. The very best music and/or lyrics are a marriage of form and function, of style and intent. A good musician will have found what they consider to be the best musical/lyrical form to represent their vision for the song. Sometimes another artist can take a piece and recontextualise it, adding something in the process. Sometimes an musician can cover a tune in the same style as the original, in the hope that an audience will put up with a slightly inferior version for want of the original.

This version, in common with those execrable 'Live Lounge' things they do on the radio, works from the beige premise that songs should be stripped of their excitement and set instead to a backing of humdrum strum-along, in order to prove the quality of the songcraft. The whole notion is balls.

This idea that a great song should work in any style is akin to suggesting that a great novel must work as a film, or a poem should work as a play. The one does not follow the other.

This may be an utterly subjective, pointless argument, but it's one I'm prepared to have. That's insipid and gutless, and (to these ears) relies for its justification on the notion that the faux-authenticity of the folk-rock scene is excuse enough for its (the tune's and the scene's) creative retardation.

 

And the idea that "the very best music and lyrics always work in any style", mentioned above, is just patent nonsense. The very best music and/or lyrics are a marriage of form and function, of style and intent. A good musician will have found what they consider to be the best musical/lyrical form to represent their vision for the song. Sometimes another artist can take a piece and recontextualise it, adding something in the process. Sometimes an musician can cover a tune in the same style as the original, in the hope that an audience will put up with a slightly inferior version for want of the original.

 

This version, in common with those execrable 'Live Lounge' things they do on the radio, works from the beige premise that songs should be stripped of their excitement and set instead to a backing of humdrum strum-along, in order to prove the quality of the songcraft. The whole notion is balls.

 

This idea that a great song should work in any style is akin to suggesting that a great novel must work as a film, or a poem should work as a play. The one does not follow the other.

Your argument is an interesting one, but it's undermined by your prejudice (" ... faux authenticity ...").

Jimi Hendrix's version of "All Along the Watchtower" (bluesy-rock) is completely different from Dylan's (acoustic-folk), but they're both effective versions of a good song.

Miles Davis's version (jazz) of the filmtrack song "Someday My Prince Will Come" (Disney pop ballad) is completely different - and excellent.

Joe Cocker's version of "With a Little Help From My Friends" (gospel/soul) is an excellent cover of the pop original.

And so on. We can enjoy very different arrangements of the same song - if they're done well.

The music and lyrics of a good song can work in any style. But if you're biased against a particular genre you're just not going to appreciate it. Your attitude to folk and folk/rock ("the beige premise that songs should be stripped of their excitement and set instead to a backing of humdrum strum-along") means you're never going to like a song done in this way, no matter the quality of the original song.

By the way, June Tabor, the vocalist singing here with The Oyster Band, has demonstrated over and over again in some 20 albums since 1976 an exquisite taste in contemporary songwriting, and she has recorded fantastic versions of many wonderful songs. If your bias makes you deaf to that quality, it is your loss, my friend.

June Tabor and Oysterband on Later.... with Jools Holland tonight.

Your argument is an interesting one, but it's undermined by your prejudice (" ... faux authenticity ...").

 

Jimi Hendrix's version of "All Along the Watchtower" (bluesy-rock) is completely different from Dylan's (acoustic-folk), but they're both effective versions of a good song.

 

Miles Davis's version (jazz) of the filmtrack song "Someday My Prince Will Come" (Disney pop ballad) is completely different - and excellent.

 

Joe Cocker's version of "With a Little Help From My Friends" (gospel/soul) is an excellent cover of the pop original.

 

And so on. We can enjoy very different arrangements of the same song - if they're done well.

 

 

The music and lyrics of a good song can work in any style. But if you're biased against a particular genre you're just not going to appreciate it. Your attitude to folk and folk/rock ("the beige premise that songs should be stripped of their excitement and set instead to a backing of humdrum strum-along") means you're never going to like a song done in this way, no matter the quality of the original song.

 

By the way, June Tabor, the vocalist singing here with The Oyster Band, has demonstrated over and over again in some 20 albums since 1976 an exquisite taste in contemporary songwriting, and she has recorded fantastic versions of many wonderful songs. If your bias makes you deaf to that quality, it is your loss, my friend.

Totally agree. It is quite often when a song is stripped right down that you realise what a good bit of songwriting it is. It is about the song - not the overall sound.

Your argument is an interesting one, but it's undermined by your prejudice (" ... faux authenticity ...").

 

Jimi Hendrix's version of "All Along the Watchtower" (bluesy-rock) is completely different from Dylan's (acoustic-folk), but they're both effective versions of a good song.

 

Miles Davis's version (jazz) of the filmtrack song "Someday My Prince Will Come" (Disney pop ballad) is completely different - and excellent.

 

Joe Cocker's version of "With a Little Help From My Friends" (gospel/soul) is an excellent cover of the pop original.

 

And so on. We can enjoy very different arrangements of the same song - if they're done well.

 

 

The music and lyrics of a good song can work in any style. But if you're biased against a particular genre you're just not going to appreciate it. Your attitude to folk and folk/rock ("the beige premise that songs should be stripped of their excitement and set instead to a backing of humdrum strum-along") means you're never going to like a song done in this way, no matter the quality of the original song.

 

By the way, June Tabor, the vocalist singing here with The Oyster Band, has demonstrated over and over again in some 20 albums since 1976 an exquisite taste in contemporary songwriting, and she has recorded fantastic versions of many wonderful songs. If your bias makes you deaf to that quality, it is your loss, my friend.

Hey man, I'm not trying to suggest there are no good cover versions or that an original is sacrosanct. Far from it. The Hendrix and Miles examples you give are good ones. I'm saying that this one is bad, and it comes of a particular mindset that a song should be able to stand up on its own. That idea that if you take everything away and just sing it earnestly it reveals what the listener might never have suspected, *gasp*, a good song, smacks to me of arrogance and laziness. Joy Division created a very specific sound environment which is as much part of the song as the lyrics. Take that away and it becomes a different song, and in this case (IMO) a lesser song.

Your presumption that I might be 'prejudiced' against a particular genre underestimates just how much music I listen to, and how I came to an opinion about a scene that (while brilliant music is being made on the adventurous fringes of 'folk') is largely consumed by its own smugness and self-reference.

Anyhow, I get really annoyed by people who criticize another's taste in music, and now I've just spent two posts doing it. Apologies for that. I'll crawl back in my shell now...

PJ Harvey - Victory

- the John Peel session version.

Hey man, I'm not trying to suggest there are no good cover versions or that an original is sacrosanct. Far from it. The Hendrix and Miles examples you give are good ones. I'm saying that this one is bad, and it comes of a particular mindset that a song should be able to stand up on its own. That idea that if you take everything away and just sing it earnestly it reveals what the listener might never have suspected, *gasp*, a good song, smacks to me of arrogance and laziness. Joy Division created a very specific sound environment which is as much part of the song as the lyrics. Take that away and it becomes a different song, and in this case (IMO) a lesser song.

 

Your presumption that I might be 'prejudiced' against a particular genre underestimates just how much music I listen to, and how I came to an opinion about a scene that (while brilliant music is being made on the adventurous fringes of 'folk') is largely consumed by its own smugness and self-reference.

 

Anyhow, I get really annoyed by people who criticize another's taste in music, and now I've just spent two posts doing it. Apologies for that. I'll crawl back in my shell now...

You seem to have a whole set of assumptions and prejudices about what these folk and folk-rock musicians think and believe about music. You write "that idea that if you take everything away and just sing it earnestly it reveals what the listener might never have suspected, *gasp*, a good song, smacks to me of arrogance and laziness". What makes you think that is an attitude they hold? It's not theirs, it's yours. Why do you think the folk scene "is largely consumed by its own smugness and self-reference"? That's your characterization - and it's not one I understand or share.

How many of June Tabor's albums have you actually listened to? Have you ever listened to any of them? She does traditional folk ballads, but also covers contemporary singer-songwriter material in the folk/folk-rock scene. I've been listening to her for 35 years. She's brilliant. Consistently brilliant. For over three decades.

Christ save us all, that's terrible...

Hey man, I'm not trying to suggest there are no good cover versions or that an original is sacrosanct. Far from it. The Hendrix and Miles examples you give are good ones. I'm saying that this one is bad, and it comes of a particular mindset that a song should be able to stand up on its own. That idea that if you take everything away and just sing it earnestly it reveals what the listener might never have suspected, *gasp*, a good song, smacks to me of arrogance and laziness. Joy Division created a very specific sound environment which is as much part of the song as the lyrics. Take that away and it becomes a different song, and in this case (IMO) a lesser song.

 

Your presumption that I might be 'prejudiced' against a particular genre underestimates just how much music I listen to, and how I came to an opinion about a scene that (while brilliant music is being made on the adventurous fringes of 'folk') is largely consumed by its own smugness and self-reference.

 

Anyhow, I get really annoyed by people who criticize another's taste in music, and now I've just spent two posts doing it. Apologies for that. I'll crawl back in my shell now...

How does your original post sit with the last paragraph in your last one?

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

This may be an utterly subjective, pointless argument, but it's one I'm prepared to have. That's insipid and gutless, and (to these ears) relies for its justification on the notion that the faux-authenticity of the folk-rock scene is excuse enough for its (the tune's and the scene's) creative retardation.

 

And the idea that "the very best music and lyrics always work in any style", mentioned above, is just patent nonsense. The very best music and/or lyrics are a marriage of form and function, of style and intent. A good musician will have found what they consider to be the best musical/lyrical form to represent their vision for the song. Sometimes another artist can take a piece and recontextualise it, adding something in the process. Sometimes an musician can cover a tune in the same style as the original, in the hope that an audience will put up with a slightly inferior version for want of the original.

 

This version, in common with those execrable 'Live Lounge' things they do on the radio, works from the beige premise that songs should be stripped of their excitement and set instead to a backing of humdrum strum-along, in order to prove the quality of the songcraft. The whole notion is balls.

 

This idea that a great song should work in any style is akin to suggesting that a great novel must work as a film, or a poem should work as a play. The one does not follow the other.

Superb post.

How does your original post sit with the last paragraph in your last one?

The last paragraph stands as an apology for the orginal post. I thought that was obvious from what it said. I still think that song's awful, but I'm generally more live and let live about that sort of thing.

Hey man, I'm not trying to suggest there are no good cover versions or that an original is sacrosanct. Far from it. The Hendrix and Miles examples you give are good ones. I'm saying that this one is bad, and it comes of a particular mindset that a song should be able to stand up on its own. That idea that if you take everything away and just sing it earnestly it reveals what the listener might never have suspected, *gasp*, a good song, smacks to me of arrogance and laziness. Joy Division created a very specific sound environment which is as much part of the song as the lyrics. Take that away and it becomes a different song, and in this case (IMO) a lesser song.

 

Your presumption that I might be 'prejudiced' against a particular genre underestimates just how much music I listen to, and how I came to an opinion about a scene that (while brilliant music is being made on the adventurous fringes of 'folk') is largely consumed by its own smugness and self-reference.

 

Anyhow, I get really annoyed by people who criticize another's taste in music, and now I've just spent two posts doing it. Apologies for that. I'll crawl back in my shell now...

I take it you love the original to? Maybe when I was 20 or so, if I had heard that I might have been appalled - at that age I took music ever so seriously, without really giving the time of day to different genres. 23 years later, I have mellowed somewhat - having played an instrument all my life, across a variety of styles and influences, I just feel that the best stuff DOES work in any style - Just because Ian Curtis and co created a distinct mood and atmosphere with the song, does not make it any less valid in another. Is it the best cover of that song I have heard? nope, but it works, even if not totally to my taste.

The 'folk scene' is an interesting one - but you are rather sweepingly dismissive of a genre that is at the heart of all music - Sure, I am not too enamoured with those that 'keep the flame' in the traditional scene - not my style, an I firmly believe if something is good ennough it will survive, it does not need a 'scene' to keep it going....

... but any music that has lyrics about aspects of life contemporary or otherwise is in essence 'folk music' - a awy of communicating thoughts, stories and emotions...

I bet Ian Curtis if alive would not have such a dismissve attitude.

I take it you love the original to? Maybe when I was 20 or so' date=' if I had heard that I might have been appalled - at that age I took music [i']ever so [/i]seriously, without really giving the time of day to different genres. 23 years later, I have mellowed somewhat - having played an instrument all my life, across a variety of styles and influences, I just feel that the best stuff DOES work in any style - Just because Ian Curtis and co created a distinct mood and atmosphere with the song, does not make it any less valid in another. Is it the best cover of that song I have heard? nope, but it works, even if not totally to my taste.

 

The 'folk scene' is an interesting one - but you are rather sweepingly dismissive of a genre that is at the heart of all music - Sure, I am not too enamoured with those that 'keep the flame' in the traditional scene - not my style, an I firmly believe if something is good ennough it will survive, it does not need a 'scene' to keep it going....

 

... but any music that has lyrics about aspects of life contemporary or otherwise is in essence 'folk music' - a awy of communicating thoughts, stories and emotions...

 

I bet Ian Curtis if alive would not have such a dismissve attitude.

Jeez, if I've come across as some young scamp who's inflamed because the beautiful original has been despoiled then I haven't expressed myself very well at all. This version doesn't work because quality has been taken from the original and insufficient quality has been substituted. That stuff about a good song working in any style is cobblers. Would you watch a Chicago Juke version of the Ring Cycle? Except for novelty value? But if you measured the stress on the pulse of Dylan as he performed Blonde on Blonde and reproduced it as minimal techno, that would be art.

Any speculation about what Ian Curtis may or may not have thought is redundant.

Jeez, if I've come across as some young scamp who's inflamed because the beautiful original has been despoiled then I haven't expressed myself very well at all. This version doesn't work because quality has been taken from the original and insufficient quality has been substituted. That stuff about a good song working in any style is cobblers. Would you watch a Chicago Juke version of the Ring Cycle? Except for novelty value? But if you measured the stress on the pulse of Dylan as he performed Blonde on Blonde and reproduced it as minimal techno, that would be art.

 

Any speculation about what Ian Curtis may or may not have thought is redundant.

Sorry, was not insinuating you were a 'young scamp' - merely that when I was, I would have agreed with you 100% and in some respects probably still do. But dont underestimate the power of an emotional attachment to the original in the argument. I fully appreciate what you are saying... All along the watch Tower by Hendrix works, but I cant see 'Tangled up in Blue' working in any other way as His Bobness's almost laxidasical telling of a deeply cutting tale.

I think in this case though, we may have to disagree. I do think its a song that works when stripped down to the bare emotion of the lyric, better than most, and although I would happily concede that there are far better ways in which it could be done, dont believe that version is without some merit, even if not really my style. IMHO, as long as those lyrics still convey their haunting nature, it can still work?

Anyone able to help me out, please! I've been looking for the name of the song since we played Leeds back in march, was on the credits at the end of sky sports coverage. I managed to record a few seconds of the song so hopefully that will help!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuy8oPm_9Jc

I bet Ian Curtis if alive would not have such a dismissve attitude.

This.

Imagine "Joy Division - Unplugged" : Much in the style of Nirvana's performance, which exhibits brilliant re-styling of classic 'grunge' rock tracks. ( And I also love the acoustic version of "Livin' on a Prayer" that Bon Jovi did ).

[video=youtube;ol--CdtOHaU]

Punk rock for me lately.

First up, the Menzingers - a band I discovered through its album's super-high rating on metacritic. Would definitely recommend "In the Impossible Past". This is a very good track:-

[video=youtube;tS4RPbg-EI8]

Also been going through Sleater-Kinney's back catalogue. Listened to their final album "The Woods" back in the day. Yep, that's the completely wrong way to go about it. Been listening to "All Hands on the Bad One" - very good jumping on point.

Locked Down - the new album by Dr. John (Mac Rebennack), produced by Dan Auerbach. Great music, interesting arrangements, poor sound. I notice this on a lot of contemporary albums - the sound is squeezed and compressed, lacking high-fidelity frequency response. Sounds thin and murky.

Has Been is a great album

Hot Chip's new single Night & Day is f*cking quality.

Polica - Give You The Ghost. LP

.

New cribs album, sounds like travelling through a time portal to the mid 90's. Enjoyed it more than I expected.

The new Liars album WIXIW is very good. One bar of brats oozes more menace than kasabian have managed in their entire career. Shows up some of Radiohead's recent electronic dabblings as well.

SQuarepusher - Ufabalum - Nice to see him returning to his old days somewhat. His current live gigs (judging by youtube footage) look splendid.

Plaid - Scintilli - same old tried and tested Plaid. No bad thing.

Keep going back to Django Django and The Mystery Jets latest album.

Hot Chip's new single Night & Day is f*cking quality.

Subsequently bought the album In Our Heads and have had that on for the last few days. Have to say that it's outstanding. Hot Chip are definitely one of the best bands out there atm.

The post I quoted I now slightly disagree with, Night & Day is actually one of the weaker songs on the album I think. Maybe it was placed poorly in the tracklist, between the atmospheric "These Chains" and "Flutes". It just sounds a little out of place on the album.

Have a listen to it for yourself, the two tracks mentioned in the last paragraph are my favourites, but it's very hard to pick out a poor song on this album. All killer, no filler!

OK so this lot were in town tonight. I thought I only knew one of their songs.

Went with FMDP & EoA. it was gonna be a zoo trying to get a taxi after so we went to the bar.

And stone me, the band came in. What a farking great bunch of lads. So a big shout out to Troy and the lads. And obviously an early alarm call to get Amy out of my room in time for her flight to Beirut tomorrow

They finish their gig in Russia later this week, BUT if they pop up on your radar in the UK and you like Rock, get to see them. bloody great show and great bunch of lads

Oh I would just like to add.

Eric is still in the bar schmoozing with the band & FMDP fully approves of.......................

Can's Lost Tapes - hit and miss in places (as you would expect) but some real gems, midnight men being a standout track.

The new Liars album WIXIW is very good. One bar of brats oozes more menace than kasabian have managed in their entire career. Shows up some of Radiohead's recent electronic dabblings as well.

Playing the Wedgewood Rooms in October only one of 3 concerts here as far as I can see.

Playing the Wedgewood Rooms in October only one of 3 concerts here as far as I can see.

Nice, cheers for a heads up, would've missed this if you hadn't said. Only 12 quid or so as well.

In the mood for some electro bleeps so giving a listen to Jimmy Edgar - Majenta

http://timothyhughes.visibli.com/share/qQb7DG

CFCF - Exercises

Been playing a lot of Song Pop (Facebook/iOS game). I unlocked the metal category. Turns out I know feck all about metal anymore.

In an effort to address this, Sacrament by Lamb of God. Excellent metal album.