the McCanns

hey sadoldgit.

what are your thoughts now on Ched Evens being innocent (for the time being)?

Shouldn't this be on another thread? I don't have any thoughts. I don't know what the new evidence is so until the new trial starts I really don't know what you expect me to say. He isn't "innocent" yet. He is still charged with rape and will stand trial for it again.

There is an awful lot going on in this case. But yes, at the very least you would think that the McCanns would have to face a charge of child neglect. However, friends in high places etc.

Simple question, no answer. A familiar story.

Oh come on, he obviously has major issues with the criticism their police force got so the book was just a way of hitting back. Plus it was a no lose gamble money wise, I doubt some fat, useless ex cop in Portugal has many other ways of potentially making a large sum of money (if he did).

 

There are some oddities surrounding the McCann case but the idea that they killed her and somehow disposed of the body is just fantasy. The fact that they have actively been raising money to keep it high-profile for years and actually got the Police to keep investigating the case goes against any idea that they did it.

I expect he does. I expect many of us would have issues if we had done our job, thought we had found the answer and then been dissed. No lose gamble? As it was the McCanns almost had him for half a million euros (and still might) but could have taken him for 1.2 million euros. I wouldnt say that was a no lose gamble. As for fat and useless? I am not sure what his weight has to do with it and as for being useless, he rose to a high rank so that would suggest a level of competence above "useless" wouldn't it? I don't think it has been suggested that the McCanns killed Madeleine deliberately. As for raising money and keeping the police investigation going, I am afraid that proves nothing at all. The longer they keep it going and keep dissing Amaral and his investigation they keep the heat away from themselves. Don't you think it odd that, at the very least, that they haven't been charged with child neglect?

Simple question, no answer. A familiar story.

Sorry, not with you?

You stated that the McCann's should face charges of child neglect. Where should they have faced those charges?

FWIW, I think that at the very worse the McCanns are culpable of neglect, causing the death of their child. I don't think that it is beyond the realms of reality that their child was killed by them, perhaps not intentionally, perhaps in an accident or act of violence...

Either way, it remains for the authorities to find the necessary evidence, a body, clothing, a witness that can confirm any of this and until such time, we have to assume they are innocent. If there are skeletons (sic) in the closet, we may never find them.

I expect he does. I expect many of us would have issues if we had done our job, thought we had found the answer and then been dissed. No lose gamble? As it was the McCanns almost had him for half a million euros (and still might) but could have taken him for 1.2 million euros. I wouldnt say that was a no lose gamble. As for fat and useless? I am not sure what his weight has to do with it and as for being useless, he rose to a high rank so that would suggest a level of competence above "useless" wouldn't it? I don't think it has been suggested that the McCanns killed Madeleine deliberately. As for raising money and keeping the police investigation going, I am afraid that proves nothing at all. The longer they keep it going and keep dissing Amaral and his investigation they keep the heat away from themselves. Don't you think it odd that, at the very least, that they haven't been charged with child neglect?

I have no idea what the laws on child neglect in Portugal are but it's not odd in the slightest that they haven't been charged, it would hardly be in the public interest of a town reliant on tourism.

As for keeping the investigation open to keep the heat away from themselves - that makes no sense at all. It was years ago, there would be no heat, any heat/publicity/interest would have ended years ago if it were not for their efforts.

Sorry, why does it matter where? Here would seem most appropriate as they are British nationals.

I have no idea what the laws on child neglect in Portugal are but it's not odd in the slightest that they haven't been charged, it would hardly be in the public interest of a town reliant on tourism.

 

As for keeping the investigation open to keep the heat away from themselves - that makes no sense at all. It was years ago, there would be no heat, any heat/publicity/interest would have ended years ago if it were not for their efforts.

I disagree. I would rather go on holiday where they prosecute people rather than worry what a prosecution would do to tourism, wouldn't you?

As long as they keep things live they continue to raise funds for the search and they continue to keep the whole abduction thing going in people's minds. It makes plenty of sense.

Sorry, why does it matter where? Here would seem most appropriate as they are British nationals.

So who is going to charge them in England for something that happened in Portugal?

Is the importance the act or where the act happened? They are residents of this country, as was the child. Under British law parents can be charged with neglect and abandonment if they leave their children alone if it is unsafe to do so. I am not sure why you are bothered about which country they would be charged in? Surely the issue is abandonment where ever they were?

. He isn't "innocent" yet. He is still charged with rape and will stand trial for it again.

Yes he most certainly is. He is innocent, until proven guilty.

Don't know about child neglect, but obstruction to justice (not sure of the legal language around it) and contempt should definitely be part of the list.

Yes he most certainly is. He is innocent, until proven guilty.

That is why I put it in quotes. He has been charged with rape and we will not know whether he is innocent or guilty until the verdict comes in after the trial.

That is why I put it in quotes. He has been charged with rape and we will not know whether he is innocent or guilty until the verdict comes in after the trial.

yes we do - Today he is innocent.

yes we do - Today he is innocent.

Indeed.

The words are "innocent until proven guilty" so, at the moment,he is innocent.

For someone who apparently worked for the courts that's a woeful lack of understanding.

The accused should be presumed innocent until a verdict is given. It does not make him innocent just that until judgement is made he should be viewed as such. People on remand are innocent?

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That is why I put it in quotes. He has been charged with rape and we will not know whether he is innocent or guilty until the verdict comes in after the trial.

innocent until proven guilty?

Is the importance the act or where the act happened? They are residents of this country, as was the child. Under British law parents can be charged with neglect and abandonment if they leave their children alone if it is unsafe to do so. I am not sure why you are bothered about which country they would be charged in? Surely the issue is abandonment where ever they were?

Yes, it is important. It happened in portugal, therefore the portuguese authorities should bring whatever charges they feel are needed on the basis of portuguese law. To give a couple of examples, if you got breathalysed in another country while over their drink/drive limit, (and most european countries have a limit significantly lower than ours,) would you expect to be able to say "I'll wait til I get back to the uk, thanks. We're 80mg, so our courts wouldn't convict me." And what about the age of consent? I know there has been some progress in stopping underage sex tourism, but plenty of countries have a lower age of consent than the uk which aren't covered by that, certain states in the usa for instance. John Peel married a fourteen year old there iirc, should he have been charged by the uk authorities for something that would have been a crime under uk law but he didn't commit in the uk, it was legal where he was, and therefore didn't commit a crime?

Yes, it is important. It happened in portugal, therefore the portuguese authorities should bring whatever charges they feel are needed on the basis of portuguese law. To give a couple of examples, if you got breathalysed in another country while over their drink/drive limit, (and most european countries have a limit significantly lower than ours,) would you expect to be able to say "I'll wait til I get back to the uk, thanks. We're 80mg, so our courts wouldn't convict me." And what about the age of consent? I know there has been some progress in stopping underage sex tourism, but plenty of countries have a lower age of consent than the uk which aren't covered by that, certain states in the usa for instance. John Peel married a fourteen year old there iirc, should he have been charged by the uk authorities for something that would have been a crime under uk law but he didn't commit in the uk, it was legal where he was, and therefore didn't commit a crime?

You're very patient. I can't believe how epically ignorant the anti-McCann trolls are. Is it really possible to be a functional citizen without understanding these basic legal principles?

You're very patient. I can't believe how epically ignorant the anti-McCann trolls are. Is it really possible to be a functional citizen without understanding these basic legal principles?

Heartily recommend the McCann thread over on Bletchweb which I did have a peruse over yesterday.

There seems to be a new kid in town, a proto-Pap. A Pap mini-me. A Pup if you will.

It's weapons-grade stuff.

He's demonstrating all the familiar hallmarks including deliciously referring to all the "research" what he done. And the most critical hallmark of the lot, which is (of course) spouting a load of old pony.

He's a special little guy, that's for sure.

Anyway, if you like a chuckle at jolly insightful loons "challenging official narratives" then it's an absolute pearl of a thread.

Heartily recommend the McCann thread over on Bletchweb which I did have a peruse over yesterday.

 

There seems to be a new kid in town, a proto-Pap. A Pap mini-me. A Pup if you will.

 

It's weapons-grade stuff.

 

He's demonstrating all the familiar hallmarks including deliciously referring to all the "research" what he done. And the most critical hallmark of the lot, which is (of course) spouting a load of old pony.

 

He's a special little guy, that's for sure.

 

Anyway, if you like a chuckle at jolly insightful loons "challenging official narratives" then it's an absolute pearl of a thread.

link?

link?

I think you know your way round our splinter forum, GB.

I think it's a point of principle to not actually link to it here. Anyway, if you're struggling the thread is named after Goncalo Amaral, the Portuguese copper in the case.

I think you know your way round our splinter forum, GB.

 

I think it's a point of principle to not actually link to it here. Anyway, if you're struggling the thread is named after Goncalo Amaral, the Portuguese copper in the case.

over and out CB.

Heartily recommend the McCann thread over on Bletchweb which I did have a peruse over yesterday.

 

There seems to be a new kid in town, a proto-Pap. A Pap mini-me. A Pup if you will.

 

It's weapons-grade stuff.

 

He's demonstrating all the familiar hallmarks including deliciously referring to all the "research" what he done. And the most critical hallmark of the lot, which is (of course) spouting a load of old pony.

 

He's a special little guy, that's for sure.

 

Anyway, if you like a chuckle at jolly insightful loons "challenging official narratives" then it's an absolute pearl of a thread.

Hmm. I did take a quick look. I don't want to get into some pointless forum war, and it did seem obvious to me that that Dip Schitt, or whatever he's called, is a wind-up. No one would actually want to come off, as he does, as the love-child of David Icke and Alan Partridge. Would they?

It's you, isn't it?

On a less happy note, I see the conspire-planks (not nuts) have now converted their preening, self-righteous fury into crowd-funding the Portuguese cop's appeal against the McCanns. I am dumbfounded that people can work themselves into such a ludicrous froth about this, blotting out all common sense and humanity.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3556119/British-trolls-paid-50-000-help-Portuguese-policeman-fight-libel-suit-against-Madeleine-McCann-s-parents.html

Hmm. I did take a quick look. I don't want to get into some pointless forum war, and it did seem obvious to me that that Dip Schitt, or whatever he's called, is a wind-up. No one would actually want to come off, as he does, as the love-child of David Icke and Alan Partridge. Would they?

 

It's you, isn't it?

 

On a less happy note, I see the conspire-planks (not nuts) have now converted their preening, self-righteous fury into crowd-funding the Portuguese cop's appeal against the McCanns. I am dumbfounded that people can work themselves into such a ludicrous froth about this, blotting out all common sense and humanity.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3556119/British-trolls-paid-50-000-help-Portuguese-policeman-fight-libel-suit-against-Madeleine-McCann-s-parents.html

Of course it's me. The government are still paying me to discredit Pap, but the funding does come through an EU grant program, which explains why I am so passionate about the Remain camp. It's my little holiday fund.

Those people clubbing together. Just wonderful. I bet SOG lobbed a tenner in.

For someone who apparently worked for the courts that's a woeful lack of understanding.

I didn't work for the courts but don't let you usual lack of understanding get in the way.

innocent until proven guilty?

Once again, wrong thread. Charged with rape so although technically "innocent" he is neither innocent or guilty of the charge until the court process is done. I guess you and Hypo will be having a street party if he gets off?

Yes, it is important. It happened in portugal, therefore the portuguese authorities should bring whatever charges they feel are needed on the basis of portuguese law. To give a couple of examples, if you got breathalysed in another country while over their drink/drive limit, (and most european countries have a limit significantly lower than ours,) would you expect to be able to say "I'll wait til I get back to the uk, thanks. We're 80mg, so our courts wouldn't convict me." And what about the age of consent? I know there has been some progress in stopping underage sex tourism, but plenty of countries have a lower age of consent than the uk which aren't covered by that, certain states in the usa for instance. John Peel married a fourteen year old there iirc, should he have been charged by the uk authorities for something that would have been a crime under uk law but he didn't commit in the uk, it was legal where he was, and therefore didn't commit a crime?

Sorry. I thought only Hutch was getting worked up about where the charge should be brought. Frankly I don't care which country brings the charge as long as they are pulled up for child neglect. If that makes me a McCann troll Verbal so be it and I am sorry if you think it is okay that three children under the age of 3 were left alone whilst their parents went out and had a good time.

Anyone watching the Netflix documentary? I'm on episode 5.

I am a little wary of Netflix since the Ted Bundy documentary, which I thought portrayed him in a strangely positive light and played down his brutality. Still an enjoyable series though.

Anyway, this series seems to portray the Portugese police as desperate and incompetent, having little evidence to go on, missing opportunities and clutching at straws. In desperation, they construct a half-assed case against the wrong people, the McCanns. All fuelled by the media.

The two most compelling pieces of evidence for me, were firstly, the eyewitness account of the man carrying a girl away from the scene shortly before the alarm was raised. Secondly, the woman in the Marrakesh petrol station, convinced she saw Maddie there. I would like to have seen these leads thoroughly explored....of course I have no idea that they weren't.

Anyone watching the Netflix documentary? I'm on episode 5.

I am a little wary of Netflix since the Ted Bundy documentary, which I thought portrayed him in a strangely positive light and played down his brutality. Still an enjoyable series though.

Anyway, this series seems to portray the Portugese police as desperate and incompetent, having little evidence to go on, missing opportunities and clutching at straws. In desperation, they construct a half-assed case against the wrong people, the McCanns. All fuelled by the media.

The two most compelling pieces of evidence for me were firstly, the eyewitness account of the man carrying a girl away from the scene shortly before the alarm was raised. Secondly, the woman in the Marrakesh petrol station, convinced she saw Maddie there. I would like to have seen these leads thoroughly explored....of course I have no idea that they weren't.

Anyone watching the Netflix documentary? I'm on episode 5.

 

I am a little wary of Netflix since the Ted Bundy documentary, which I thought portrayed him in a strangely positive light and played down his brutality. Still an enjoyable series though.

 

Anyway, this series seems to portray the Portugese police as desperate and incompetent, having little evidence to go on, missing opportunities and clutching at straws. In desperation, they construct a half-assed case against the wrong people, the McCanns. All fuelled by the media.

 

The two most compelling pieces of evidence for me were firstly, the eyewitness account of the man carrying a girl away from the scene shortly before the alarm was raised. Secondly, the woman in the Marrakesh petrol station, convinced she saw Maddie there. I would like to have seen these leads thoroughly explored....of course I have no idea that they weren't.

I finished watching the series. Very interesting. Not a case I'd followed very closely before.

The ring of bogus local orphanage donation scammers operating in the town just prior to the disappearance seems important. (Especially since one of them got into a family villa and was chased off, possibly appearing to be after a young child who was in the front room)

Not convinced about the Morocco sighting (there have been hundreds like that) and the adult carrying away a child right by 5A, that Jane Tanner (Tapas 7) witnessed, appears to have been unrelated since there were many creches set up (including one at the Ocean Club Resort). In fact, the man in question has been likely proven to be a father collecting his child from the said creche.

I don't think we'll ever find out the truth. I dare say that if she had been smuggled away, I don't fancy her chances of survival given the spotlight on this case, I can see the 'evidence' being disposed of.

I watched the first episode but found it a bit boring. Also felt it portrayed the Mccanns and their cronies too softly. They left their young children alone in a foreign country FFS.

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IF you leave your bike out un attentended and unlocked, the person who stole it is bad, but you were negligent, and thats all I will say

I finished watching the series. Very interesting. Not a case I'd followed very closely before.

 

The ring of bogus local orphanage donation scammers operating in the town just prior to the disappearance seems important. (Especially since one of them got into a family villa and was chased off, possibly appearing to be after a young child who was in the front room)

 

Not convinced about the Morocco sighting (there have been hundreds like that) and the adult carrying away a child right by 5A, that Jane Tanner (Tapas 7) witnessed, appears to have been unrelated since there were many creches set up (including one at the Ocean Club Resort). In fact, the man in question has been likely proven to be a father collecting his child from the said creche.

 

I don't think we'll ever find out the truth. I dare say that if she had been smuggled away, I don't fancy her chances of survival given the spotlight on this case, I can see the 'evidence' being disposed of.

I hate to dispel any of this, I haven’t seen the series. I can tell you, that I have lived here since 2008, we live about 20 minutes from Praia da Luz. There was until a couple of years ago people going door to door collecting for a children’s home on the Algarve. It was a scam, it went on for years as I say certainly from when we arrived. The callers were very plausible and will probably start up again as new people arrive in the area. The Brits are going home and other Northern Europeans are arriving so as newbies are gullible. Sorry can’t see why the point was relevant.

Not sure the Portuguese case was half assed. I have read the book. The truth in a lie, very interesting, however banned in the UK I believe?

Nothing has got near the truth and after all this time one wonders if there ever will be justice or discovery.

I watched the first episode but found it a bit boring. Also felt it portrayed the Mccanns and their cronies too softly. They left their young children alone in a foreign country FFS.

 

 

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other episodes provide balance. You need to watch the whole series to get all sides/views.

You have to wonder what is so special about the McCann's that they have not been charged with child neglect and why the police are still pouring tens of thousands of pounds into the investigation long after other missing children's investigations would have been closed down. There is one thing for certain, the McCann's are responsible, one way or the other, for the disappearance of their daughter. From the start they and their mates obstructed the investigation by the Portuguese police. Whatever you think of Amaral, if you read his book you can see why he came to the conclusions that he did. Perhaps the McCanns were harshly treated by the initial investigation, but how self obsessed do you have to be to go out on a jolly and leave three very young children unattended for long periods of time? It isn't as if there weren't baby sitters available at the resort and they certainly weren't short of a few bob to pay for the care. They are not the victims here, their daughter is.

 

Not sure the Portuguese case was half assed.

Watch the series. It's excellently put together and no matter your thoughts on the case it provides information you can use to support your line of thinking.

You have to wonder what is so special about the McCann's that they have not been charged with child neglect and why the police are still pouring tens of thousands of pounds into the investigation long after other missing children's investigations would have been closed down. There is one thing for certain, the McCann's are responsible, one way or the other, for the disappearance of their daughter. From the start they and their mates obstructed the investigation by the Portuguese police. Whatever you think of Amaral, if you read his book you can see why he came to the conclusions that he did. Perhaps the McCanns were harshly treated by the initial investigation, but how self obsessed do you have to be to go out on a jolly and leave three very young children unattended for long periods of time? It isn't as if there weren't baby sitters available at the resort and they certainly weren't short of a few bob to pay for the care. They are not the victims here, their daughter is.

I totally agree with this comment and so do many others here

Praia da Luz is a very nice holiday resort, this devastated the area for years. I once travelled to Luz in Early May purely for a coffee and to meet friends on the way in was a billboard with the child’s face on defaced. I arrived in Luz to find it empty, I asked what was going on and the parents were on their way apparently so no one wanted to be around, visitors if any and portuguese. There is very little sympathy for the family.

More importantly, where is the child? The area is surrounded by National Park, thick undergrowth etc and of course a rugged coastline with a small number of beaches. It’s a beautiful area.

I will see if I can watch the programme but I cannot obtain Netflix.

To Chez, what about the dog bought over from the UK?

 

To Chez, what about the dog bought over from the UK?

There was a significant misunderstanding of the importance of this evidence. The police had assumed that because the dog had barked, it indicated that there had been a dead body present, and Madeline had therefore been killed on site, but in the Netflix documentary it explained that a dog indication can only ever be used to support other evidence. The dog barking, on its own, was of little value and in no way pointed to the fact the girl had been killed in the apartment.

The police came to a conclusion that the McCanns were guilty based based on the DNA and dog indication evidence. Both pieces of evidence had pretty much zero value.

Where do you live PortugalSaint?

I spent Augusts in the 80s and early 90s down there - mostly Armação de Pêra and a couple of summers in Praia Dona Ana.

Those places didn't have a particularly large or obvious British expat community, unlike Albufeira and Luz, for example. I'm not sure what they're like now.

There was a significant misunderstanding of the importance of this evidence. The police had assumed that because the dog had barked, it indicated that there had been a dead body present, and Madeline had therefore been killed on site, but in the Netflix documentary it explained that a dog indication can only ever be used to support other evidence. The dog barking, on its own, was of little value and in no way pointed to the fact the girl had been killed in the apartment.

 

The police came to a conclusion that the McCanns were guilty based based on the DNA and dog indication evidence. Both pieces of evidence had pretty much zero value.

I haven’t seen the Netflix programmes, but did think that there was other evidence along with the cadaver dogs, such as there being no evidence of a break in. Also the dogs had never failed before. Not sure why they would identify different DNA?

Just watched the Netflix series and also found it a bit boring. Well produced but nothing really new in it just lots of moody shots of the resort.

The dog evidence does raise a few questions but the idea that the McCanns did it then calmly went and had tapas with their doctor mates is just nonsense, especially as being on holiday without a car means they had no means of disposing of the body.

The one interesting thing in the programme was the fact that they had made a block booking of the tapas restaurant, which meant that anyone who knew that would also know that their kids were alone in their apartment at that same time each night. I wouldn’t be surprised if the abductor knew this somehow.

I can’t believe they left three young kids home alone like that, they should have got done for neglect.

I can’t believe they left three young kids home alone like that, they should have got done for neglect.

They were a nice "respectable" middle-class couple so had the Daily Mail on their side.

If she was a single mum from a council estate, the tabloids would have had a field day.

Just watched the Netflix series and also found it a bit boring. Well produced but nothing really new in it just lots of moody shots of the resort.

 

The dog evidence does raise a few questions but the idea that the McCanns did it then calmly went and had tapas with their doctor mates is just nonsense, especially as being on holiday without a car means they had no means of disposing of the body.

 

The one interesting thing in the programme was the fact that they had made a block booking of the tapas restaurant, which meant that anyone who knew that would also know that their kids were alone in their apartment at that same time each night. I wouldn’t be surprised if the abductor knew this somehow.

 

I can’t believe they left three young kids home alone like that, they should have got done for neglect.

Just because something sounds unlikely it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Read the book The Truth of the Lie. It does pose some interesting questions that the McCanns have yet to deal with in a satisfactory way. They may be guilty of nothing more than child neglect, but to write off the Portuguese investigation as if it was carried about by Inspector Clouseau is far too simplistic.

Where do you live PortugalSaint?

I spent Augusts in the 80s and early 90s down there - mostly Armação de Pêra and a couple of summers in Praia Dona Ana.

 

Those places didn't have a particularly large or obvious British expat community, unlike Albufeira and Luz, for example. I'm not sure what they're like now.

Hello we live on the West Coast, Vale da Telha near to Aljezur. If you visited Portugal now you would find that A de P is now extremely built up and along with Lagos have a large British community. The whole “southern Algarve” is now very busy and mostly holidaymakers.

Just because something sounds unlikely it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Read the book The Truth of the Lie. It does pose some interesting questions that the McCanns have yet to deal with in a satisfactory way. They may be guilty of nothing more than child neglect, but to write off the Portuguese investigation as if it was carried about by Inspector Clouseau is far too simplistic.

I will have to read it. What was their theory on how they disposed of the body?

but to write off the Portuguese investigation as if it was carried about by Inspector Clouseau is far too simplistic.

 

If she was a single mum from a council estate, the tabloids would have had a field day.

they had a field day, before being sued for over half a million quid.