Poppys on the shirts

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2231071/James-McClean-refuses-wear-poppy.html

Would anyone far more worldly than me like to give a summary as to why someone would do this? Sure, I understand the basic implications but for someone not to put aside their personal feelings for such an event is a bit odd to me. How strongly can one feel about this, after all...

Hidden in the last paragraph of the article.

He's from (London) Derry, most of the victims of bloody sunday were from his estate.

Still, he can't be that bothered by it as he doesn't seem to mind giving his millions of tax to HMRC.

Understand the feeling against the Army, but its a strange stance for me - tens of thousands of NI lads died in both World Wars

Poppies are to remember this counties dead, if McClean has such a moral stance on not doing this then maybe he should also apply this to not earning his money in that same country either.

I don't like being expected to toe the line with things like this either. It bugs me when people get criticised for not joining in with something popular. As far as I'm concerned the issue is not why he chooses to remove the emblem, rather the brass neck of people who can't accept that people might have a different view from them. [aimed at the twitter abuse he got].

Personally I don't like wearing the poppy either, and do you know what? It's nobody's business why.

I don't like being expected to toe the line with things like this either. It bugs me when people get criticised for not joining in with something popular. As far as I'm concerned the issue is not why he chooses to remove the emblem, rather the brass neck of people who can't accept that people might have a different view from them. [aimed at the twitter abuse he got].

 

Personally I don't like wearing the poppy either, and do you know what? It's nobody's business why.

I think you are a massive cvnt if you decide not to wear one....nothing personal

An eloquent point of view I read the other day: The very people we honour on this day fought for the right of our citizens to have freedom of thought and action.

An eloquent point of view I read the other day: The very people we honour on this day fought for the right of our citizens to have freedom of thought and action.

Only right we show respect for that then, yes?

I don't like being expected to toe the line with things like this either. It bugs me when people get criticised for not joining in with something popular. As far as I'm concerned the issue is not why he chooses to remove the emblem, rather the brass neck of people who can't accept that people might have a different view from them. [aimed at the twitter abuse he got].

 

Personally I don't like wearing the poppy either, and do you know what? It's nobody's business why.

Then you're a cu nt.

An eloquent point of view I read the other day: The very people we honour on this day fought for the right of our citizens to have freedom of thought and action.

and IMO. its not too much to ask in your sorry life to wear a little red thing for a day or two and shut up for 2 mins once a year......

nothing too much at all..people are free to do what they like..but IMO, those that chose not to are sticking two fingers up to the people that allowed them to have that choice...there is very little political about it..just ignorance..

like they have a freedom not to wear such a symbol, I am free to think they are disgusting human beings

I think you are a massive cvnt if you decide not to wear one....nothing personal

I rest my case.

I don't like being expected to toe the line with things like this either. It bugs me when people get criticised for not joining in with something popular. As far as I'm concerned the issue is not why he chooses to remove the emblem, rather the brass neck of people who can't accept that people might have a different view from them. [aimed at the twitter abuse he got].

 

Personally I don't like wearing the poppy either, and do you know what? It's nobody's business why.

And personally i think youre a cvnt. They fought and died for your freedom, a one pound donation and signal of respect isnt much to ask. Should chuck you on the frontlines next time our country needs someone, then see how much respect you want to give! Although they dont let cowards in the army last time i checked.

And personally i think youre a cvnt. They fought and died for your freedom, a one pound donation and signal of respect isnt much to ask. Should chuck you on the frontlines next time our country needs someone, then see how much respect you want to give! Although they dont let cowards in the army last time i checked.

You sound like Hitler.

Godwins law.

Maybe he was just having a Paddy?

To me The poppy represents freedom...which includes the freedom not wear a poppy on your shirt if you don't want to. Sometimes it takes more courage to stand by your convictions, whether we find them palatable or not.

To me The poppy represents freedom...which includes the freedom not wear a poppy on your shirt if you don't want to. Sometimes it takes more courage to stand by your convictions, whether we find them palatable or not.

Do you not think though that if he doesnt respect what a poppy represents or the people that died for that freedom, then he should apply the same moral code to earning his living in that country?

I don't like being expected to toe the line with things like this either. It bugs me when people get criticised for not joining in with something popular. As far as I'm concerned the issue is not why he chooses to remove the emblem, rather the brass neck of people who can't accept that people might have a different view from them. [aimed at the twitter abuse he got].

 

Personally I don't like wearing the poppy either, and do you know what? It's nobody's business why.

I suggest that you read what happened to Southampton during the Blitz. Our city was flattened. By all means have a different point of view but don't expect Saints fans to tolerate the fact that we expect people to remember those that risked and lost their lives (and still do) so that you can have a different point of view. Go and support another team if you think you are being bullied into wearing a poppy; if not appreciate why here in Hampshire we think people should wear a poppy.

God no! I'm more interested in the person. If it came down to a Serial killer who wore a poppy & believed in everything it stands for or a person I find a decent human being who doesnt wear a poppy then I would choose the latter everytime. If i'm being totally honest I didn't wear a poppy today, yet I have total respect for those who fought for my freedom. A poppy is merely a bit of plastic, a symbol. I prefer to judge people in other ways. I accept many will disagree. I refuse to make assumptions about someones morals based on a bit of plastic.

I was so proud today of my lad and the teams he refereed and the parents of the boys playing. He held a minute silence at both games he did today

u11 and u12 and it was immaculately observed by everyone.

The young lads knew what it was about and were brilliant.

Wear a poppy don't wear one...but today showed me that there are kids still about who were prepared to remember the dead and thats what today was about for me.

Lest we forget

This is a huge fuss about nothing. James McClean takes a personal decision not to wear a poppy, so what?

The wearing a poppy is a voluntary act, I choose to wear one but can fully accept that others don't wish to.

This is a huge fuss about nothing. James McClean takes a personal decision not to wear a poppy, so what?

 

The wearing a poppy is a voluntary act, I choose to wear one but can fully accept that others don't wish to.

because it obviously means a great deal to thousands of people that stand there and fund his ridiculous wages.....

edit, just looked on a sunderland message board and they have been talking about this at great length...about 99% are appalled by him..

If he has such a problem with British politics or whatever this comes under he's free to **** off from earning a wage on our shores. I use the word earning very loosely.

 

If they donated as much to the poppy appeal as they did to their season ticket I might give your line of argument some credibility.

If they donated as much to the poppy appeal as they did to their season ticket I might give your line of argument some credibility.

not really a point..the general feeling is that a player playing for sunderland and being paid (generally) by sunderland fans is representing sunderland, its people and the town...just like we would not want certain characters or what ever playing for saints as they would represent us

so many are more than angry with his actions...so no, they dont feel like he can do what he likes....he cant do many things being a premier league footballer...a sacrifice for his utterly incredible wages should not be be a great deal to ask for....but many are absolutely furious with him

because it obviously means a great deal to thousands of people that stand there and fund his ridiculous wages.....

 

 

edit, just looked on a sunderland message board and they have been talking about this at great length...about 99% are appalled by him..

It seems a dangerous road to go down, to expect every footballer to adopt the morals and beliefs of those who buy a ticket and watch them. I'm pro choice...but what if a saints player is anti-abortion. I'm not sure where you draw the line. Putting pressure on someone to wear a poppy against their will seems a bit fascist, and as we all know that iswhat we were fighting. (i will add i'm a bleeding heart liberal therefore recognise that my thumb is probably not on the political pulseof this forum) to be honest the fact that we are able to debate this without fear of any consequence is a pretty good tribute to the freedem our granparents & parents fought for.

not really a point..the general feeling is that a player playing for sunderland and being paid (generally) by sunderland fans is representing sunderland, its people and the town...just like we would not want certain characters or what ever playing for saints as they would represent us

 

so many are more than angry with his actions...so no, they dont feel like he can do what he likes....he cant do many things being a premier league footballer...a sacrifice for his utterly incredible wages should not be be a great deal to ask for....but many are absolutely furious with him

For which its arguable that if Brave men hadn't fought and died, he might never be earning.

For which its arguable that if Brave men hadn't fought and died, he might never be earning.

the poppy appeal and all that represents is such an incredible part of our immediate past and to a lesser degree, the present..of the UK

he would have been fully aware that he would have upset many many that pay his unbelievable lifestyle...

im sure many footballers have certain views that hardly would agree with and just once a year, wear a bit of clothing for nothing more than a bit of respect to the people of sunderland who have lost loved ones around the world this year...the people that USED to go to the stadium of light and pur some of the hard earned wedge to pay for his next ferrari...

I've never worn one. I don't know anyone who does. I thought it was just something people do on tv.

I was so proud today of my lad and the teams he refereed and the parents of the boys playing. He held a minute silence at both games he did today

u11 and u12 and it was immaculately observed by everyone.

The young lads knew what it was about and were brilliant.

Wear a poppy don't wear one...but today showed me that there are kids still about who were prepared to remember the dead and thats what today was about for me.

Lest we forget

Same here. My lads U11 team, the opposition & parents held an immaculate minutes silence.

Mr McClean's actions have probably raised the profile of the 'poppy on the shirt' more than any other year I can remember. In the same way the 'kick racism out' campaign got more airtime because players didn't wear the shirt.

I would argue his actions have probably helped raise more awareness and funds than a fleeting glance of his shirt on MOTD and the few hundred quid it would have fetched on EBay.

Making people do things against their conscious, just because you employ them, is a very slippery slope chaps.

Not supporting his stance in any way (or disappointed either - it's freedom of choice).

But - his country was neutral during World War 2 and, as others have pointed out, he would have grown up with the history of the Troubles.

We'll probably never know the answer, but I wonder how many British people working abroad necessarily observe similar ceremonies in those countries - if indeed other countries have similar ceremonies.

Mr McClean's actions have probably raised the profile of the 'poppy on the shirt' more than any other year I can remember. In the same way the 'kick racism out' campaign got more airtime because players didn't wear the shirt.

 

I would argue his actions have probably helped raise more awareness and funds than a fleeting glance of his shirt on MOTD and the few hundred quid it would have fetched on EBay.

 

Making people do things against their conscious, just because you employ them, is a very slippery slope chaps.

such a poor reasoning...really is..

im not saying he should be made to do anything...just thought he could have shown more respect to the people of sunderland...

and reading what I have..it seems nearly all sunderland fans think so....

such a poor reasoning...really is..

 

im not saying he should be made to do anything...just thought he could have shown more respect to the people of sunderland...

and reading what I have..it seems nearly all sunderland fans think so....

Reasoning? I wasn't seeking to justify his actions. I am just saying that ironically his decision has probably done more for the campaign than had he worn one....

I wonder if his shirt will raise more money in an auction for the poppy appeal than the other player's shirts will?

Would be interesting to find out...

Perhaps if the twa ts that don't wear poppies visited the cemeteries in Belgium & France and saw the massed graves of the young men of WW1 who lay there, or to the cemeteries across Europe and North Africa and saw the graves of the young men who stood, fought and died fighting the murderous Nazi regime, then perhaps, maybe, they'd understand.

Or walk into town and look at the names on the cenotaph, or visit Lincoln or Ely cathedrals and see the 10 of 1000s of names of RAF and USAF crews who have no known graves, or watch the grainy black and white film of HMS Hood or HMS Barnham exploding and remember that some mothers son died at that moment then, maybe, they'd understand.

This isn't about the rights or wrongs of NI, Iraq or Afghanistan, it's about civilian soldiers, sailors and airmen that fought and died for not only our freedom, but civilisation as we understand it.

Perhaps if the twa ts that don't wear poppies visited the cemeteries in Belgium & France and saw the massed graves of the young men of WW1 who lay there, or to the cemeteries across Europe and North Africa and saw the graves of the young men who stood, fought and died fighting the murderous Nazi regime, then perhaps, maybe, they'd understand.

 

Or walk into town and look at the names on the cenotaph, or visit Lincoln or Ely cathedrals and see the 10 of 1000s of names of RAF and USAF crews who have no known graves, or watch the grainy black and white film of HMS Hood or HMS Barnham exploding and remember that some mothers son died at that moment then, maybe, they'd understand.

 

This isn't about the rights or wrongs of NI, Iraq or Afghanistan, it's about civilian soldiers, sailors and airmen that fought and died for not only our freedom, but civilisation as we understand it.

Very well said Dave. For all those arguing its his choice not to wear it. Well if these brave men hadn't died for us he wouldn't have the choice he enjoys now.

Understand the feeling against the Army, but its a strange stance for me - tens of thousands of NI lads died in both World Wars

Not withstanding the fact that something like 250,000 Southern Irish served in the British Forces during WW2.

He's a w*nker.

I don't like being expected to toe the line with things like this either. It bugs me when people get criticised for not joining in with something popular. As far as I'm concerned the issue is not why he chooses to remove the emblem, rather the brass neck of people who can't accept that people might have a different view from them. [aimed at the twitter abuse he got].

 

Personally I don't like wearing the poppy either, and do you know what? It's nobody's business why.

Yep, its more or less unanimous.

You're a c*nt.

Same here. My lads U11 team, the opposition & parents held an immaculate minutes silence.

This is fantastic and to be respected but is it really relevant to 11 year olds? , the minutes silence at SMS yesterday was immaculate (bar 0.0001% of idiots) but how much of it is personal conviction and how much is peer-pressure/group think? WW2 ended nearly 60 years ago and WW1 getting on for 100 years ago, clearly while there are still veterans alive 'we' should give respect (every day, not just on poppy day) but will we continue to give respect ad infinitum? I'm 50(!) and I've no problem understanding the issues and standing up for a minutes silence, fortunately unlike many my age I have no recollection of losing family members/friends in the great wars. Trouble with it all it all becomes codifed rather than spontaneous - why was there a ceremony at West Brom on Monday 5th November? Would anybody have noticed if there hadn't been? I think it's a bit weird my boys 23/21 observe this tradition, maybe they should look fd rather than back?

I have massive respect to anyone that wears a poppy but should it be mandatory for younger people to wear one? I thought that was part of what we fought against?

 

I have massive respect to anyone that wears a poppy but should it be mandatory for younger people to wear one? I thought that was part of what we fought against?

yes

hth

This is fantastic and to be respected but is it really relevant to 11 year olds? , the minutes silence at SMS yesterday was immaculate (bar 0.0001% of idiots) but how much of it is personal conviction and how much is peer-pressure/group think? WW2 ended nearly 60 years ago and WW1 getting on for 100 years ago, clearly while there are still veterans alive 'we' should give respect (every day, not just on poppy day) but will we continue to give respect ad infinitum? I'm 50(!) and I've no problem understanding the issues and standing up for a minutes silence, fortunately unlike many my age I have no recollection of losing family members/friends in the great wars. Trouble with it all it all becomes codifed rather than spontaneous - why was there a ceremony at West Brom on Monday 5th November? Would anybody have noticed if there hadn't been? I think it's a bit weird my boys 23/21 observe this tradition, maybe they should look fd rather than back?

 

I have massive respect to anyone that wears a poppy but should it be mandatory for younger people to wear one? I thought that was part of what we fought against?

What sort of parents would we be if we failed to teach our children of the sacrifices made for the freedoms we enjoy today?

Yep, its more or less unanimous.

 

You're a c*nt.

For a man that *****es so much about having his right to 'Freedom of Expression' without being abused that's a pretty poor response Alpine.

Sandwich Saint makes some good points. Make things mandatory and you put people off. Far better to explain the past and present wars and let them come to their own opinion, which will be far more heartfelt.

A fair few members of my family died / suffered during WW1 and WW2 and many more served (although my own parents were too young). But I don't need to be reminded of their sacrifice and service anymore than I need to take time out on anniversaries to think of my parents - I think of them much more often than that.

I'm not doubting for one moment that many if not most of you genuinely want to respect service men and women, but sometimes people do seem to sport a poppy because they THINK they should. That's not what our forebears died for - fear of the thought police.

What sort of parents would we be if we failed to teach our children of the sacrifices made for the freedoms we enjoy today?

Nothing wrong with that and to observe is probably better than to not observe. Just a shame that so many of our freedoms are illusory - we won the wars but on so many levels we lost the peace.

What sort of parents would we be if we failed to teach our children of the sacrifices made for the freedoms we enjoy today?

agree....in the history of this country...the World Wars are still very recent...relatively speaking..

in the latter, our parents and grand parents stood alone in the world and stood up to the most evil that humans could muster...we stood there and said no fecking way.....we stood there, out gunned, out numbered and under equipped....the poppy appeal represents the very very best of what this country stood for, not for ourselves, or the old empire. but the world we all know today...it also reminds us of the very and utterly disgusting worst that humanity can be....and it can be defeated against all odds...so no, the poppy appeal should never ever be forgotten or be used as a political stick

IMO, it can never be too much trouble to doff my cap, wear a bit of plastic and chuck a few quid into the pot as my way of saying thank you very much for basically giving up your generation so I can have mine and moan about everything in life that you cant have.

that should never ever be too much trouble and what McClean did was disgusting and a massive insult to the people in sunderland

IMO

Mr McClean's actions have probably raised the profile of the 'poppy on the shirt' more than any other year I can remember. In the same way the 'kick racism out' campaign got more airtime because players didn't wear the shirt.

 

I would argue his actions have probably helped raise more awareness and funds than a fleeting glance of his shirt on MOTD and the few hundred quid it would have fetched on EBay.

 

Making people do things against their conscious, just because you employ them, is a very slippery slope chaps.

Quite right. I'm just off out to raise the profile of Scope by beating up a Spazz at one of their events.

Quite right. I'm just off out to raise the profile of Scope by beating up a Spazz at one of their events.

Don't injure your keyboard.

He's now decided to auction off his shirt for leukemia.

such a poor reasoning...really is..

 

im not saying he should be made to do anything...just thought he could have shown more respect to the people of sunderland...

and reading what I have..it seems nearly all sunderland fans think so....

You're calling for respect, but think it's OK to call someone a cu nt because they have a strong opinion of their own on the issue - an opinion they know is going to bring them lots of grief? Can't you respect that?

And you're calling for respect, but think it's OK to call someone a cu nt because they express the opinion that he has the right to hold to his own (unpopular) opinion?