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Viking Warrior

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I see that the media are looking to get the sympathy vote for Mr Gascgoine, 24 hour care etc

how much support does this guy need?

All he has to do is stop drinking, he has had more support etc than most people with alcohl problems

 

Its not an easy addiction to over come, what do others thing re gascoine?

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Tokyo, i must admit I have not seen these reports about mental health, Just the alcohol and the fact he is drinking again

Mind you he was pished when he tried to intervene in the Raol mouatt case re fishing rods and beers a couple of years ago

 

If he has severe mental health problems then he can be sectioned for his own safety. The PFA do not need to be involved.

 

and I have a very caring nature. I have lost two of my twin cousins through alcohol abuse and they were in their early twenties.

Edited by Viking Warrior
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I don't know 100%, like I said it is just from what I saw on TV. The main source is the fly on the wall documentary about him a few years ago. He was talking about being bipolar and about his obsessions. The obsessions seemed really strange and really disrupted his mind/life. Everything he did had to match a certain number, he was always talking to himself, counting etc.

 

Based on what I saw, sectioning would be best for him. I think they did that a while ago though, got him clean and he was on TV for a bit, may have even done a MOTD2. Seems he has gone back to his old ways since then. Like George Best, there is no helping some people and unfortunately I think this will end in him dying young.

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He has twice been sectioned in the past.

 

I would say these things certainly don't help the addiction.

 

I heard an interview with his agent saying that he had been clean for 2 years, but a few weeks back a close friend of his passed away, Gazza was by his side as it happened and it had really affected him.

 

Mental health issues are so hard to deal with, especially for those that have not experienced them personally. The idea that one can simply 'just stop drinking' or 'just snap out of depression' is really unhelpful, as it is way more complex than this - hence it being an illness. You wouldn't tell someone with cancer to 'just stop being ill'.

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Tokyo, i must admit I have not seen these reports about mental health, Just the alcohol and the fact he is drinking again

Mind you he was pished when he tried to intervene in the Raol mouatt case re fishing rods and beers a couple of years ago

 

If he has severe mental health problems then he can be sectioned for his own safety. The PFA do not need to be involved.

 

and I have a very caring nature. I have lost two of my twin cousins through alcohol abuse and they were in their early twenties.

 

I don't they need to be involved but am pretty glad they are as the guy needs help. They are a big organisation with loads of money, 1,000s of very rich members and fuk all to do with their time. I would rather they tried to help someone like Gazza than worried about getting Balotelli off his 2 week fine for being a knobhead or whatever.

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Read his autobiography a few years ago and he does indeed have mental health issues. The alcohol abuse is the manifestation of his other problems IMO.

 

If I recall correctly, he was with a mate that died (or was badly injured) when he was 6 or 7. It left him with ticks and other issues. Football 'saved' him, but the end of his career was always going to surface old demons.

 

Wish him well.

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Read his autobiography a few years ago and he does indeed have mental health issues. The alcohol abuse is the manifestation of his other problems IMO.

 

If I recall correctly, he was with a mate that died (or was badly injured) when he was 6 or 7. It left him with ticks and other issues. Football 'saved' him, but the end of his career was always going to surface old demons.

 

Wish him well.

 

Coupled with what I said above, it would make sense that this was the trigger for this latest episode.

 

A great character and wonderful footballer, but can't help feeling angry at people with so much talent that they ultimately waste.

 

This is such an unhelpful attitude. Mental health issues are illnesses. Would you be angry at the guy if he had cancer?

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This is such an unhelpful attitude. Mental health issues are illnesses. Would you be angry at the guy if he had cancer?

 

I get your gist but I wasn't really refering to his mental health issues- More the booze. You could argue that the two are linked, but ultimately he has had access to more help and support than the vast majority of people.

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I get your gist but I wasn't really refering to his mental health issues- More the booze. You could argue that the two are linked, but ultimately he has had access to more help and support than the vast majority of people.

 

Two way street this as well. 'Friends' may be less likely to tell their famous mate to cut doen a bit.

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I get your gist but I wasn't really refering to his mental health issues- More the booze. You could argue that the two are linked, but ultimately he has had access to more help and support than the vast majority of people.

 

Addiction is very often a side effect of bipolar. It can be frustrating for those "on the outside looking in", as it were, but it really isn't as simple as just putting down the bottle or how much help you have.

 

Whilst he probably has had more help than your average joe, he probably also has to deal with his issues in a much more public way, with a greater deal of scrutiny and intrusion. This in turns extra stress, which can be a trigger in itself for bipolar sufferers.

 

I'm not having a go mate, it's just something I feel strongly about. I won't go into detail, but I have struggled with Mental Illness myself, and found many people who would simple tell me to 'just cheer up' or 'snap out of it'. I understand how hard it can be to comprehend these things unless you really have experienced it first hand. I know it certainly changed my perception on it all.

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I feel really sorry for gazza and just feel he is on a downward spiral like George Best.

 

I sometimes wonder if it is a case of an ordinary chap who had imense talent who was unable to keep his feet on the ground when he became famous.

If he is bi-polar, it's an illness not an acquired behavioural defect.

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Generally I don't have a lot of sympathy for people with drug or alcohol addictions. However I do have a lot of sympathy for Gazza. He had 2 of this best friends killed in accidents when he was a kid, he gew up in relative poverty and when he was young his dad suffered from a lot of mental health issues. He now has a lot of mental health issues himself and if were honnest, he was never the sharpest tool in the box either. All of which leads down a path of substance abuse and addiction from which is is hard to deviate.

 

It's different to other celebrity booze cases like Best or Winehouse. GB was a party loving, gambling, misogynistic playboy who developed an alcohol problem through years of living it up and thinking he was untouchable. With Gazza one gets the impression he was trying to deal with a lot of mental demons.

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I feel really sorry for gazza and just feel he is on a downward spiral like George Best.

 

I sometimes wonder if it is a case of an ordinary chap who had imense talent who was unable to keep his feet on the ground when he became famous.

 

No, Gazza would've had similar problems if he was crap at football and never become famous. His autobiography is a great read and reveals that he has had plenty of demons right from an early age.

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I don't have any really sympathy.

 

He had it all... Money, game, more money, talent...

 

And blew it all...he gets more support than nearly anyone else in his position and gets untold help from the PFA...

 

It is sad but I'm hard stretched to find sympathy for him

 

He's ill you c*nt

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Seriously, it's a tragic waste, for a bloke who had everything.

 

Sadly he either didn't have the right advisors around him, or did not listen to them.

 

Wish him well in making a recovery, but sad thing is its only a matter of time until the next time he lapses.Gazza just has a self destruct mechanism.

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I don't have any really sympathy.

 

He had it all... Money, game, more money, talent...

 

And blew it all...he gets more support than nearly anyone else in his position and gets untold help from the PFA...

 

It is sad but I'm hard stretched to find sympathy for him

 

Im now looking for a new BFF on SWF! Poor show DD :(

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Generally I don't have a lot of sympathy for people with drug or alcohol addictions. However I do have a lot of sympathy for Gazza. He had 2 of this best friends killed in accidents when he was a kid, he gew up in relative poverty and when he was young his dad suffered from a lot of mental health issues. He now has a lot of mental health issues himself and if were honnest, he was never the sharpest tool in the box either. All of which leads down a path of substance abuse and addiction from which is is hard to deviate.

 

It's different to other celebrity booze cases like Best or Winehouse. GB was a party loving, gambling, misogynistic playboy who developed an alcohol problem through years of living it up and thinking he was untouchable. With Gazza one gets the impression he was trying to deal with a lot of mental demons.

 

Well said. It's obviously different to George Best, Gazza is simply lost and from the looks of things, utterly helpless.

 

It's heartbreaking to watch. People can talk about a waste of talent, but it seems far from deliberate. I just think he has never really had much of a clue in regards to most things in his life. Simply turning up and playing football for money must have been SO much easier for him than anything else, before or after.

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I get your gist but I wasn't really refering to his mental health issues- More the booze. You could argue that the two are linked, but ultimately he has had access to more help and support than the vast majority of people.

 

He probably has been fortunate to receive such help, but he's probably lucky insomuch as the vast majority would not have made it to the age of 45 with such a chronic illness.

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surprised at what..?

 

someone I dont know, will never know going through problems...?

I really find it hard to have sympathy for someone I have never met...

 

sorry, but any I would have would be false and I am not afraid to admit that

 

Surprised...that you might post a kneejerk response like 90% of your thousands of posts. Do you actually think before you post?

 

With regards to this thread.....does the word empathy mean anything to you?

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Surprised...that you might post a kneejerk response like 90% of your thousands of posts. Do you actually think before you post?

 

With regards to this thread.....does the word empathy mean anything to you?

why is it knee jerk...

 

I do apologise if I dont feel much for someone I have never met and saw once for 90 mins when I was about 8 years old..

i see people at work every day with far tougher things to deal with in life and I have to work with them...and they get on with it....

 

that is just me...I dont feel much for people who I do not know...I do hope he recovers as much as anyone but I would be lying if I came on here and showed false sympathy

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i dont know you but feel sorry for you

why is it knee jerk...

 

I do apologise if I dont feel much for someone I have never met and saw once for 90 mins when I was about 8 years old..

i see people at work every day with far tougher things to deal with in life and I have to work with them...and they get on with it....

 

that is just me...I dont feel much for people who I do not know...I do hope he recovers as much as anyone but I would be lying if I came on here and showed false sympathy

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why is it knee jerk...

 

I do apologise if I dont feel much for someone I have never met and saw once for 90 mins when I was about 8 years old..

i see people at work every day with far tougher things to deal with in life and I have to work with them...and they get on with it....

 

that is just me...I dont feel much for people who I do not know...I do hope he recovers as much as anyone but I would be lying if I came on here and showed false sympathy

 

I am not sure what you are trying to achieve Delldays with this 'I'm just telling it as it is' approach.

 

How would you feel if I made throwaway comments about soldiers who suffer mental illness? After all, I've never met them too so it'd be false sympathy I guess, plus I don't feel anything about someone I have never met too (applying your logic). I also don't feel much for people I don't know either and there are far tougher things to deal with than doing the job that you're trained for. I mean, you get paid for doing a job that you wanted to do, you had full control over your decision.

 

Do you think my words might be inflammatory If I came on here and made spiteful comments about soldiers who were going through problems in their lives?

 

Here is an example:

 

Scenario - Soldier who has been on active service returns home and hits the bottle, because for some reason, unknown to him, he just can't cope with his life anymore. The MoD provide a counsellor and offer him support but he carries on drinking.

 

My thoughts (in Delldays mode) - "**** him, he's been given a chance and he blew it, what a waster. I would just leave him to die as I really couldn't give a toss about him. I don't know him anyway and there are bigger problems to worry about than some loser who has an addictive personality."

 

How would you feel? Do you think my thoughts might get under your skin? If so, why? Apply that rationale to the situation of Gazza and see if you can see another point of view.

 

I don't think you're in any way malicious, but to have such a contemptuous attitude towards the life of someone else shows a staggering immaturity. Please try and remember that although he might not be close to you, he will have close friends and a family that care for him, however oddly they express it.

 

You don't know the future, maybe one day something will need rewiring in your mind and you might need to ask for help. I hope that people will show a greater degree of feeling and humanity towards you, than you seem to show to others.

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I read in a decent Scottish Sunday . That Gascogne started to drink at the airport bar in Arizona . If he had two advisors with him why the hell did they allow him to buy a drink in the first place . At least they managed to get the pint off him . Although he did drink some off . If he was that close to death and entered intensive care why the hell let him out of your sight ? While I understand alcohol addiction at the end of the day and unless the indri dual has the desire and will to come of the booze . They can succeed . It's a bloody hard road . Either Gazza gets real and sirts himself out or he knows the consequences . I can see where dell days is coming from

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How would you feel if I made throwaway comments about soldiers who suffer mental illness? .

if it was me or someone I know..I would not give a monkies what you thought...you dont know me, will never meet me and I am just words to you. so who cares really..?

 

sorry, but I live in a world where people come and go...some have to deal with more than drink addiction...so I dont find much sympathy with gazza...for no other reason than I dont know him at all....and never will.....

 

at least I am honest and not full of bullshyt and desperately trying to show my full fakeness online here, facebook, twitter or media phone in show...

 

I hope he pulls through...but I am not going to be a hypocrite and come out with crap like "pray for gazza"

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I have every sympathy for him - as he obviously has mental health problems and alcoholism is a common symptom within those that develop these problems. Very sad. However, there are thousands effected by the the same problems who dont get nearly the same support and its those that I feel most sorry for.

 

You can not compare Gazza's problems with Best. As said above, Best developed his own problems through his lifestyle and choices he made. In addition, most alcoholics who ruin their liver, if lucky get ONE transplant- you dont get two as there are not enough to go round... unless are you George Best and the fact he ruined both is unforgiveable in my book.

 

I hope Gazza gets the right help, from the right people, and with mental disorders that means those that understand the issues and problems.

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Dear me, a deeply troubled individual. Some forces in nature are only destructive.... They will eventually burn out. I just hope the guy manages to find some kind of peace.

 

Delldays or gazza?

 

In all seriousness, hope gazza can overcome his problems (although looks unlikely). Loved his enthusiasm for the game back in his good days and seems a genuine guy

Edited by saintmatt
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why is it knee jerk...

 

I do apologise if I dont feel much for someone I have never met and saw once for 90 mins when I was about 8 years old..

i see people at work every day with far tougher things to deal with in life and I have to work with them...and they get on with it....

 

that is just me...I dont feel much for people who I do not know...I do hope he recovers as much as anyone but I would be lying if I came on here and showed false sympathy

 

I don't feel much for people I don't know ... What a chilling statement. And looking at previous posts, not surprising.

 

Psychopathy (/saɪˈkɒpəθi/[1][2] is a personality disorder that has been variously characterized by shallow emotions (including reduced fear, a lack of empathy, and stress tolerance), coldheartedness, egocentricity, superficial charm, manipulativeness, irresponsibility, impulsivity, criminality, antisocial behavior, a lack of remorse, and a parasitic lifestyle. However, there is no consensus about the symptom criteria and there are ongoing debates regarding issues such as essential features, causes, and the possibility of treatment.[3]

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There must be a word for over the top webforum sanctimoniousness.

 

Delldays doesn't peddle out the usual platitudes and is now a "psychopath" and gets lectures about hypothetical soldiers...

 

 

Come on then. You people who, like, really care about Gazza.

 

Come on Barney Trubble. Great lecture earlier but what are you doing about him or for him?

 

Let us know. Actual, tangible stuff please. Luckily you've had the whole weekend to take action, so there must be loads you've done by now.

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Greavsie on Gazza and alcoholism from The People

 

"These are not the uplifting, heartwarming words you will want to read about stricken Paul Gascoigne.

 

You’ll want to read that a man who is regarded as a national treasure can fight back from the brink to finally win his battle with alcoholism.

 

Those are the sort of words people use when they know nothing about the hideous illness Paul is living with.

 

I spent some time with Paul a year or so ago, when we appeared in a series of theatre shows together. And, as an alcoholic myself, I have to say I was very wary about the idea.

 

But Paul had not had a drink for about a year and the excellent people at The Providence Projects’ rehab centre in Bournemouth were with him, believing that performing on stage would aid him and, as it happened, Paul did his turn and the shows went well.

 

Yet he still seemed fragile. I still believed he was on the edge of a relapse. The problem was that people kept coming backstage and asking him to do this appearance or that after-dinner show and Paul seemed reluctant to say no.

 

In fact, Paul is a prime candidate for alcoholism because he wants to please everybody all the time. He wants to be the centre of attention and, like all of us to some extent, he dearly wants to be loved.

 

People talk glibly about clubbing together and getting him to a rehab centre in Phoenix, Arizona, to help his “recovery”. I’m sure these people are well-meaning and will enjoy being thought well of for trying to help.

 

But people all too often want to help alcoholics at arms length, on their own terms. You cannot help an alcoholic on your own terms.

 

So, if you want a dose of reality, let me give you one. There is no recovery from alcoholism. You can recover from a heart attack. You can cure cancer and mend broken bones.

 

But alcoholism is an incredibly complex mental illness which never leaves you. It doesn’t matter that I’ve not had a drink for 34 years. For me, it’s still about not having one today.

 

You always have to be acutely aware of it. That mental process is like having to screw on a wooden leg every morning. You’d rather not have a wooden leg but without it you know you will fall in a heap.

 

When you are down, when you are lonely, that is when you want a drink the most.

 

And Paul Gascoigne is a very lonely man. That is the heart of the problem.

 

He may return from Arizona having dried out but he still won’t be sober. Probably only an alcoholic can truly appreciate the difference between the two.

 

To learn to live as normal a life as possible with alcoholism, you have to have a supreme bloody-mindedness – and I’m afraid I do not think Paul possesses that.

 

George Best, one of the few British players to rank above Paul in terms of genius, was a good friend of mine.

 

I knew George in our playing days and I also performed a number of theatre tours with him.

 

With no disrespect to Paul, George was a far brighter, sharper man than him.

 

He was a far more together, a more rounded human being – but the drink killed George.

 

After a number of successful theatre appearances, we were due to play a gig in Bristol when I heard that the venue had cancelled because they had heard, correctly, that George was back on the booze.

 

It shocked me because I did not expect George to drink again. It also shook me because I felt that this time it would kill him – and it did.

 

I fear Paul will die if he carries on drinking but it’s not about merely prolonging his life. He needs to find a purpose, a quality of life.

 

I’m afraid I can’t see any light at the end of the tunnel for him. I don’t see the hope. And I don’t detect the necessary bloody-mindedness within him.

 

As a footballer he wasn’t bothered about winning, losing or drawing.

 

He wasn’t bothered about grinding out a 1-0 win. He wanted to entertain. And he still does. He wants to be the life and soul of the party.

 

He enjoys the talking appearances but some people close to Paul think it doesn’t matter if he has a drink as long as he is sober enough to be coherent at the next dinner show, when there’s £5,000 at stake.

 

Paul, as I mentioned, was a genius as a footballer. Others may have achieved much more in the game but Paul was genuinely touched by God.

 

If you are a genius as an artist, a songwriter, an author or an actor, say, nobody tells you at the age of 30 or 35 you can’t do that any more.

 

That the career which brought you wealth, fame and admiration is over and you will have to find something else to do. It leaves a hell of a hole in your life, I can tell you.

 

I don’t know exactly when Paul descended into alcoholism but, for me, a significant factor was the end of my top-flight playing career.

 

There is no tried and tested way of surviving with alcoholism. You have to find your own path.

 

You have to wake up one morning, shaking like a leaf and puking, and realise that you don’t like the world you are living in and that the world doesn’t like you much either.

 

I went to a rehab place in St John’s Wood three or four times and it was all warm slippers and hot baths, pay your bill and head back out into the world again.

 

It was not until I woke up one day in a mental hospital in Essex – in a room of people sitting around farting, shaking and talking to themselves – that I had the reality check I needed.

 

I haven’t had any counselling since but every alcoholic has to take their own path. Nobody can instruct you.

 

Whether it’s going to AA or other counselling. Whether it’s finding God or talking to the trees in your garden, you have to find your own way.

 

I believe Paul was getting the best help possible at The Providence Projects but nothing they could have done would ever have been enough on its own.

 

When I stopped drinking in 1978, I had just separated from my wife because I realised how miserable I was making her and our children, who were young enough to be at home but old enough to be impressionable.

 

The Gascoigne family talks about upcoming documentary 'Surviving Gazza' on This Morning. An unflinching and moving film about football legend Paul Gascoigne's family 2009: Channel 4's documentary "Surviving Gazza" highlighted the turmoil suffered by Gascoigne's family during his troubles

 

I knew I wasn’t a very nice person and I wanted to be better.

 

Luckily for me, my wife and I got back together again soon after and I could gradually get my life back into some sort of order.

 

I was enjoying playing non-league football for Barnet, with no pressure, and I had a job selling knitwear for a friend, again there was no stress and I could work at my own pace.

 

It was not for another three years that I felt ready to go into a full-time career in television.

 

That was my path and, as I write, I haven’t had a drink for more than 34 years. Though I’m bloody-minded enough never to be complacent about it. I’m luckier than Paul.

 

On a football field, Paul could always plot a course through an opposition’s defence with some mazy dribble or piece of magic. In life, sadly, I don’t believe he possesses that same vision."

 

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jimmy-greaves-talks-about-paul-gascoigne-1646950

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There must be a word for over the top webforum sanctimoniousness.

 

Delldays doesn't peddle out the usual platitudes and is now a "psychopath" and gets lectures about hypothetical soldiers...

 

 

Come on then. You people who, like, really care about Gazza.

 

Come on Barney Trubble. Great lecture earlier but what are you doing about him or for him?

 

Let us know. Actual, tangible stuff please. Luckily you've had the whole weekend to take action, so there must be loads you've done by now.

 

No doubt he's busy donating a liver

That said, the whole idea of being unable to feel sympathy for someone you've never met is f**ked up and parochial. Gazza's one thing; elevating it to a general principle is another.

Edited by shurlock
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