View from opposition

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=304400.360

Fair play to them. They give us an awful lot of credit to how we played today.

A lot agree they couldn't handle us.

General message seems to be that they were below par and hadva few injuries?

Whats the ****ing point. Everyone has said it all already.

 

Tactically naive from the manager. Looked as if we hadn't prepared at all. Shouldn't have started Allen & Gerrard. We saw it coming a mile off. Sturridge lacked energy. Lucas came on and made a difference. Johnson & Skrtel were appalling. We basically played 4-2-4 in the first half. 2 steps forward, 1 back.

 

If there is one thing you can be sure of about this Liverpool squad. Anytime you feel optimistic, be prepared to be let down next game. Saw this result coming, typical Liverpool these days that. I bet they all sat ****ing themseleves to sleep over that spurs win. You need to earn the right to play, and we looked half asleep, and completely clueless for pretty much 90 minutes. Well done Southampton.

First of all, it's a transition season. It's been said often enough but we should expect these frustrating inconsistencies.

 

The first half, we were just inferior all over the pitch. Southampton were pressing high with intensity, they were winning the second balls off Lambert, attacking with numerical superiority in the space through the middle. We weren't controlling ball or space and clearly if you don't do that, you're going to struggle.

 

There's been criticism of playing a 'two-man midfield' and that's obviously going to get a lot of attention when Southampton were overrunning us in that area but I don't think it's necessarily the reason. You have to defend compactly as a unit and we weren't. We play a 4-2-3-1 but the front four, don't generally help us stay compact. As such, the midfield two can get overrun if they're targeted and Southampton's band of three in their 4-2-3-1 was moving into that space between the lines and capitalising on it with their quick combination play. It's not the shape necessarily, under Rafa we played 4-2-3-1 defending often as 4-4-2. But we were compact. Today there was space in the middle for Southampton to attack. They were playing out through the centre backs which opened up our midfield and then were getting numerical superiority around Allen and Gerrard.

 

What we had to do on the ball was play out through the full backs. Southampton were pressing aggressively in the middle when they lost the ball and had a fairly narrow block so there was space in the wide areas. The problem was Enrique and Johnson were poor. That was precisely the space we needed to use and the players we had playing there weren't playing well. Even then though, we weren't playing through them enough - the trade off of Southampton's pressing was leaving that space on the opposite side and we weren't using it, we were playing too many long balls forward. We needed to release the pressure through the full backs, open up the channels in their backline and attack in the space behind.

 

The second half, we were more solid but we still weren't playing well. Suarez had at that point been moved to left wing and he wasn't tracking back and so Lucas and Gerrard were having to cover more horizontal space. Considering Johnson's a poor back-post defender, Southampton attacking down our left was a concern.

 

The most disappointing thing was the third goal. Alright, we were chasing the game more but we were too open through the middle and to allow Rodriguez to run straight through us was horrendous. The most frustrating thing is our defence has struggled all season with players running at them and it happened again today.

 

All-round poor performance, Southampton were much better than us and at no point did we control the game.

Quote from: PhaseofPlay on Today at 06:09:54 PM

Progress measured by the table is also necessarily measured by the final table, not with 8 games to go. We've scored a crap load more goals this season than last. So there's progress. Our goal difference is greater. Suarez has more goals. Gerrard has played in every minute of every game, and has more goals.

 

If people want to call it as they see it, then they should call it honestly, not by how they feel after a bad result.

 

Let's see where we are at the end of the season. We still have a slim chance of Europe. It's not like we're fighting relegation

 

You get shot down if you dare say anything negative regarding the performance after a win.

 

You were very confident of a win today and pointed to Southampton's Direct style of play.

 

Were you surprised by what you saw today because for me they were the better footballing side, the passing and movement at times was fantastic.

Funny thing was when we played up at their place, that was the first game where Cork and Schneiderlin played together in midfield where they were completely ineffective, and barely got into the game.

But we were much better in midfield today than they were when they were stuffing us 1-0 up there.

Funny thing was when we played up at their place, that was the first game where Cork and Schneiderlin played together in midfield where they were completely ineffective, and barely got into the game.

 

But we were much better in midfield today than they were when they were stuffing us 1-0 up there.

Did they play 3 in central midfield that day? The increasingly immobile Gerrard and injured/ineffective Allen gave us a chance in the middle of the park. Might have been a different story if they had sacrificed one of their forward thinking players for Lucas. Notwithstanding this, Cork and Morgan were excellent.

Did they play 3 in central midfield that day? The increasingly immobile Gerrard and injured/ineffective Allen gave us a chance in the middle of the park. Might have been a different story if they had sacrificed one of their forward thinking players for Lucas. Notwithstanding this, Cork and Morgan were excellent.

Liverpool side last time was

J Reina, D Agger, J Enrique, M Skrtel, G Johnson, S Gerrard, J Allen (J Henderson, 69), Lucas (J Carragher , 88 ), R Sterling, L Suarez , J Shelvey.

Lucas was the main difference I think, plus Gerrard was on great form at Anfield, transitioning the ball rapidly to Sterling and Suarez to run at us.

Liverpool side last time was

J Reina, D Agger, J Enrique, M Skrtel, G Johnson, S Gerrard, J Allen (J Henderson, 69), Lucas (J Carragher , 88 ), R Sterling, L Suarez , J Shelvey.

 

Lucas was the main difference I think, plus Gerrard was on great form at Anfield, transitioning the ball rapidly to Sterling and Suarez to run at us.

Lucas was why Davis was brought on today in place of Ramirez.

Lucas was why Davis was brought on today in place of Ramirez.

Yup.

Lucas was why Davis was brought on today in place of Ramirez.

Lucas was superb at Anfield and ran the show. Also Shelvey and Sterling caused us problems.

On the red and white kop forum.

After 5 minutes you could see that it was Soton's 10 outfield player's versus our back four and central midfield pairing. It was like Coutinho, Downing, Luis and Sturridge were playing on a different pitch. You would think the forward players or Gerrard or Rodgers could see what was going on and ask the forward players to drop back and help out the beleaguered CM and defence. Soton, were given the freedom to attack our back four at will. I thought we are trying to implement an intelligent style of football, were the players can think on their feet, see what is going on and adapt, yet they continued to play as essentially two different units for the whole half.

Coutinho hardly kicked the ball in the 1st half apart from his chance and goal. Their right-back jumped on him as soon as he got the ball (a lessen for opposition teams there), on the other flank he was given a bit more space and time and so was a shade more effective. Downing OK going forward, reverted to his usual can't be ****ing arsed to track back self. The amount of times Johnson had two player's against him and Downing just ambled over and watched, hmm I'll stay over, no point helping out, looks like way too much hard work that. Sturridge, looked aimless, drifting about all over the place without any penetration.

Rodger's post-match: "When we have three in the CM, we can control and dominate..." So why play only two? Henderson, Allen, Gerrard, Lucas not like we are short of options. It would however mean dropping one of Coutinho, Downing and Sturridge, the latter being the obvious choice given his desire to play centrally. The formation he put out can only be effective when everyone is on top of their game and willing to work their socks off (you would think this would be a given for any match). You can't have two Liverpool teams on one pitch, the forward players unwilling to help out the defence.

And another comment.

I've just seen Rodgers post match interview with the BBC - and it's not the first time he's basically just bull****ted his way through an interview David Brent style and I'm really starting to get ****ed off with it. It's deeply insulting to the fans that paid and travelled to the game. I don't know if he thinks that because it wasn't on tele most people will only have seen highlights so he can tell them what to think, or if he thinks that FSG won't watch the game and will take his word for it, but by spouting this ******** he is spinning some story that simply isn't accurate.

1. "We conceded poor goals which has been unlike us." Is that right Brendan? So the two goals that Spurs scored last week weren't poor goals then? The fact that both times our defence switched off and let that ***** Vertongen score somehow isn't conceeding a 'poor goal'.

2. "We could have scored three or four ourselves." What ****ing game were you watching then mate? Because by that logic if we 'could have scored three or four' they could have had ten or twelve.

He did it after Zenit away as well, when he described it as "a near perfect performance."

I accept that there will be bad days, and it frustrates me that we ever got to the stage where this much extensive rebuilding was needed, but that is the legacy of those two American c*nts who destroyed Rafa's time here. A bit more honesty from the manager would be refreshing, I think it's the least we deserve after watching that awful display.

Rant over.

"Best team won. Southampton haven't put a performance like that in for more than 10-15 years. Seriously where the **** did a performance like that come from?"

Right... Apart from man city last month you mean?

I did notice another fan did put him right just after he said that.

Pochettino did his homework on Liverpool. He obviously reckoned they would line up 4-4-2 or really more like 4-2-4 as they have done in recent weeks and mached them. We played 4-4-2 (which we haven't done so far) so we had 4 pressing their 4 defenders and they couldn't get the ball out and we also had more mobility and pace in midfield, so whilst Gerrard is still quality on the ball he and Allen had Morgan and Cork snapping at them the whole game, neither had the pace and mobility of say a Dembele or Wilshere to travel with the ball to create space, it essentialy meant all they had was the ball over the top, which with the pace of Clyne and SHaw we generally nulified, with a little bit of 'home' linesman advantage for a few tight calls.

I saw that Morgan had 5 interceptions again which keeps him way at the top of the charts.

One of them wrote this...

'My far too over-simplistic take on where we went wrong centres around the poor maligned Joe Allen and my lasting image from the game. The image I have is the stark contrast between the time and space afforded by our ever so polite statuesque midfield to any of the Southampton midfielders as they sauntered forward with the ball and our poor beleagured Little Joe, tongue hanging out, gasping for breath, clutching his shoulder attempting frantically to retain possession of the ball whilst a pack of voracious Southampton hyenas snapped mercilessly at him until he surrendered the thing.

As a microcosm to illustrate how we got absolutely ****in mullered in Saturday's game by a team who had won just six times before we innocently entered their den I'm not sure we need to delve much deeper.'

Another said that it was like Liverpool were kicking up a hill for the first half, we would clear the ball and it would come straight back to us...

Some pretty decent tactical analysis on that forum... particularly the "round table" discussion http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=304412.40

Loved this bit tho, sums up our approach...

"They were everywhere and we looked to be anywhere but where they were. Pretty much nowhere. They outnumbered us in our half. They outnumbered us in their half. They were getting to every loose ball. We were outplayed and outfought. Lucas, briefly, managed to improve our midfield."

I like this thread on another forum: http://forums.liverpoolfc.com/threads/334213-Do-you-rate-Morgan-Schneiderlin

The bit that makes me smile most is the way that these big clubs think that they can buy who they want, when they want.

I like this thread on another forum: http://forums.liverpoolfc.com/threads/334213-Do-you-rate-Morgan-Schneiderlin

 

The bit that makes me smile most is the way that these big clubs think that they can buy who they want, when they want.

Some of the arrogance on there defies belief.

Some of the arrogance on there defies belief.

I did like the link to this though...

I did like the link to this though...

 

We should sign Dembele.

"We could pick him up on the cheap. Would make a good squad player. "

Brilliant! I was thinking the same about Joe Allen but then concluded he wouldn't ever be good enough for us.

"We could pick him up on the cheap. Would make a good squad player. "

 

Brilliant! I was thinking the same about Joe Allen but then concluded he wouldn't ever be good enough for us.

To be fair he is playing injured and might be capable of looking better than Cork or Davis on occasion, Allen was at least trying his balls off to get something to happen and occasionally giving it away because he was trying to get some pace into their passing.

Thanks the9, some good info there. Sorry for making a joke about Joe Allan's ability, it was mainly a satire on the Liverpool fan's opinion that "he might make a good squad player" and would be cheap. Not on Joe's ability, who is actually one of the best sideways passer in Britain.

It is very interesting reading other fans forums after a loss or a draw at our place.Liverpool fans to their credit were very sporting and contructive,a while back after we took a point off Arsenal the comments were nasty and bitter ie second rate team,championship side,fodder etc. I think the Liverpool supporters are a more realistic crowd with great recent history and understanding of football.

I assume they didn't ask SAF what he thought about our performance against United at Old Trafford as well then?

£10m + Shelvey on loan? Tempting...

£10m + Shelvey on loan? Tempting...

By that logic i'd offer them a bag of rocks and fourpast for a few of their midfield! Where's Pulis when you need him for a cash plus player deal?!?

£10m + Shelvey on loan? Tempting...

Really? Honestly? :-o

Really? Honestly? :-o

Hell no. I wouldn't have Shelvey as a ball boy, let alone a player. The fact he's been in an England squad is an absolute joke.

Hell no. I wouldn't have Shelvey as a ball boy, let alone a player. The fact he's been in an England squad is an absolute joke.

Sorry, lol.. I totally misread that!

I like this thread on another forum: http://forums.liverpoolfc.com/threads/334213-Do-you-rate-Morgan-Schneiderlin

 

The bit that makes me smile most is the way that these big clubs think that they can buy who they want, when they want.

To be fair isn't that what we do to Championship Clubs and players we like the look of? Human nature really

To be fair isn't that what we do to Championship Clubs and players we like the look of? Human nature really

Clubs with superior financial clout and superior sporting projects can always buy whoever they want. Might get turned down at first on occasions but if they really want the player they will get him. Long term contracts mean nothing apart from a sort of financial securisation for the selling club. Only got to look at a couple of transfers involving young english "future stars" Jones and Henderson, both had longish and recently renewed contracts but when Utd and Liverpool came calling with silly money those contracts weren't worth the paper they were written on. Just upped the ante a wee bit. Players in the main want success, to be all they can be and if their actual club is going nowhere fast they'll jump ship.