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Europe next season (via fairplay)

simo

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simo

simo

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Posted

I know this has been touched on a few times but what do people think , would this be a good thing (possibly be able to attract better players in the summer with the opportunity to play European football) or as a lot of people have mentioned would it just be a distraction from the league ? If so can and should we (if we can) decline the chance and concentrate on getting into the champions league places in the league ? ;-)

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Saint Garrett

Saint Garrett

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I'd be a bit worried after you look what it's done to Newcastle this year. However, if we are going to progress into Europe and challenge towards the top of the division, then its a step that we need to take. We'd just have to make sure we bolster the squad a bit more in the summer.

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

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I love European footie... would be nice

 

don't think it's a realistic option for us next season though; Think the UK is way behind 3 or 4 scandinavian countries in the FP league . Doesn't make sense though really, Sweden,Norway,Finland; they're all low level football in countries where there are relatively few social issues. All these qualification criteria should be weighted to take into account the number of unemployed,the average number of people on benefits in the big cities etc. It all makes a difference, especially when you have a paranoid pair like the Ferdinands who keep thinking people are insulting them all the time whereas I see that a new inquiry has yet again found that there isn't any substance to their complaints.

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pingwing

pingwing

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^^ England did get a spot 2 seasons ago though... (Fulham got it)

 

I like the prospect, mostly as it'll an excuse for something like Crusaders away in July (hilarious time to visit Belfast for any reason in the middle of marching season), but chances are the amount of red cards in the league this year will drag the leagues total score down too much to get the place, nice to know we are top of the eligible teams though.

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VectisSaint

VectisSaint

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Would be a disaster, screw our pre-season, and scupper our PL campaign effectiveness. Bloody noddy europe cup screws teams who do not have the resources to run 2 teams. Starts too early, continues too long and provides poor financial rewards. Its the last thing we need.

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Kingsland Nick

Kingsland Nick

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don't think it's a realistic option for us next season though; Think the UK is way behind 3 or 4 scandinavian countries in the FP league . Doesn't make sense though really, Sweden,Norway,Finland; they're all low level football in countries where there are relatively few social issues. All these qualification criteria should be weighted to take into account the number of unemployed,the average number of people on benefits in the big cities etc. It all makes a difference, especially when you have a paranoid pair like the Ferdinands who keep thinking people are insulting them all the time whereas I see that a new inquiry has yet again found that there isn't any substance to their complaints.

Sweden will drop down the rankings

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/football-swedish-match-abandoned-player-hit-object-190254879.html

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david in sweden

david in sweden

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not exactly the fair play question, but out of interest....

..... with the FA Cup Semis being played this weekend whoever of Chelsea / Man.City should be able to take care of Wigan /Millwall.....

In the past if the Cup winners qualify for CL..... then the losers get their place in the Euro competition, instead.

 

HOWEVER....if both Man C. and Chelsea qualify for CL......would either of the other two be allowed to take the Cup Winners place in Europe?...sounds a bit unlikely.....

 

any of you barrack-room lawyers out there with a UEFA rule book to hand know the answer to that one ?

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Nexstar

Nexstar

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not exactly the fair play question, but out of interest....

..... with the FA Cup Semis being played this weekend whoever of Chelsea / Man.City should be able to take care of Wigan /Millwall.....

In the past if the Cup winners qualify for CL..... then the losers get their place in the Euro competition, instead.

 

HOWEVER....if both Man C. and Chelsea qualify for CL......would either of the other two be allowed to take the Cup Winners place in Europe?...sounds a bit unlikely.....

 

any of you barrack-room lawyers out there with a UEFA rule book to hand know the answer to that one ?

 

Could be wrong, but I think this creates an extra Europa League place in the Prem. FA Cup winners qualify for the EL not the CL. So whoever finishes 6th would also get into Europe.

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david in sweden

david in sweden

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don't think it's a realistic option for us next season though; Think the UK is way behind 3 or 4 scandinavian countries in the FP league . Doesn't make sense though really, Sweden,Norway,Finland; they're all low level football in countries where there are relatively few social issues. All these qualification criteria should be weighted to take into account the number of unemployed,the average number of people on benefits in the big cities etc. It all makes a difference, especially when you have a paranoid pair like the Ferdinands who keep thinking people are insulting them all the time whereas I see that a new inquiry has yet again found that there isn't any substance to their complaints.

 

 

I can't speak for the rest, but the Swedish season has only just started.and the Prem.has only a handful of games left in this one.......

 

The Swedes only play 30 games in their top league, so it's not a fair comparison...unless they have a % figure of the ard count from last season

 

.....or maybe only it's only the big 5 countries are reckoned in this Fair Play competition..? Anyone now the rules for that one ?

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niceandfriendly

niceandfriendly

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Posted
Would be a disaster, screw our pre-season, and scupper our PL campaign effectiveness. Bloody noddy europe cup screws teams who do not have the resources to run 2 teams. Starts too early, continues too long and provides poor financial rewards. Its the last thing we need.

 

I'd hardly describe the UEFA Cup/Europa League as a noddy cup. This isn't the Intertoto we're talking about here.

 

In short, it would be amazing if we got into Europe providing Nicola/Liebherrs would provide the funding to sufficiently bolster the squad, which I believe they would do.

 

But it's not going to happen is it? We're not top of the fair play league and England aren't in one of the top places are they?

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

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I can't speak for the rest, but the Swedish season has only just started.and the Prem.has only a handful of games left in this one.......

 

The Swedes only play 30 games in their top league, so it's not a fair comparison...unless they have a % figure of the ard count from last season

 

.....or maybe only it's only the big 5 countries are reckoned in this Fair Play competition..? Anyone now the rules for that one ?

 

It's for all UEFA associated federations. Don't know if it's weighted pro capita though. I mean an 5000 crowd in the suburbs of Helsinki must be easier to control than 60000 screaming and mostly drunken scousers divided into to 2 historically opposed camps.

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Junior Mullet

Junior Mullet

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UEFA Europa League

There are three places in the UEFA Europa League available: the FA Cup winners will enter at the Group Stage; the fifth place team in the Barclays Premier League will enter at the Play-Off stage; and the Football League Cup winners will enter at the Q3 stage.

 

In the event the FA Cup winners are qualified for the UEFA Champions League the FA Cup runners-up will qualify, but in the place reserved for the lowest ranking Barclays Premier League representative. The place with direct access to the Group Stage will be given to the club that finishes in the highest position in the Barclays Premier League of the clubs qualifying for the UEFA Europa League.

 

English winners of the UEFA Europa League will enter at the Group Stage, gaining an extra domestic place only if they fail to qualify through other means for the UEFA Champions League or UEFA Europa League. If the holders of the UEFA Europa League have already qualified for Europe, no extra domestic place will be gained.

 

Should the FA Cup winners, runners-up (if applicable) and the Football League Cup winners already have qualified for Europe, their place goes to the next best placed clubs in the Premier League.

 

Fair Play winners enter at the Qualifying round 1 stage.

 

This place will automatically go the three best-placed national associations in the UEFA Respect fair play rankings provided they achieve an average of 8.0 points or more. The top three associations will then be entitled to enter the club that has either won their domestic top-division fair play competition, or if they are already qualified, the runners-up and so forth.

Please note that the above is purely a guide to the qualification procedure at present. From time to time other scenarios may occur which could mean that the above procedures may need to be reviewed.

 

 

Fair Play League: The Fair Play League is not just about yellow and red cards.

 

 

Each club is also ranked on positive play, respect towards opponent, respect towards referees and behaviour of officials.

 

UEFA Fair Play Ranking: All representative teams from a football association are responsible for the score of the Fair Play ranking of that association. This includes matches of all national teams and all clubs in all UEFA competitions. The ranking is composed from 1 June until 31 May the following year. The criteria for the ranking is Fair Play.

 

Criteria: Teams are judged on the following criteria:

 

Yellow and red cards: If no cards are shown the score will be 10. Every yellow card will deduct this total by 1. A red card will cost a team 3 points in the ranking. If the red card is the result of a second yellow card the deductions of the second yellow card will be ignored. But if a player gets a direct red card after he got a yellow card earlier, the yellow card will be counted as a deduction. This score could become negative

Positive play: e.g. attacking tactics, acceleration of the game, efforts to gain time, and continued pursuit of goals. A team can score a maximum of 10 points and a minimum of 1 point

Respect to the opponent: e.g. returning the ball to the opponent at a throw-in, helping an injured opponent: maximum 5 points, minimum 1 point

Respect to the referee: maximum 5 points, minimum 1 point

Behaviour of the team officials: maximum 5 points, minimum 1 point

Behaviour of the fans: maximum 5 points, minimum 1 point

NB: this criterion is ignored when the number of fans is negligible e.g. if there are no fans at all or because of penalty that was given by the UEFA

The total number of points will be divided by the maximum number of points, 40 (or 35 if there are a negligible amount of fans), and multiplied by 10 which will result in a score between 0 and 10. The score is calculated to two decimal points and not rounded up.

 

Fulham got in in 2011 and Man City in 2008. Scandanavian teams dominate despite the weighting system applied.

 

Pretty subjective this bit: The Respect Fair Play assessments are made by the official UEFA delegates, based on criteria such as positive play, respect for the opponent, respect for the referee, behaviour of the crowd and team officials, as well as cautions and dismissals.

 

There does not appear to be a running 'league' as such. The ranking showing us 4th was compiled based on assessments for the first half of the season. England was 4th behind Finland. Sweden and Norway look like bolt on's for a place. Between us and Finland it seems.

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Deano6

Deano6

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Posted
not exactly the fair play question, but out of interest....

..... with the FA Cup Semis being played this weekend whoever of Chelsea / Man.City should be able to take care of Wigan /Millwall.....

In the past if the Cup winners qualify for CL..... then the losers get their place in the Euro competition, instead.

 

HOWEVER....if both Man C. and Chelsea qualify for CL......would either of the other two be allowed to take the Cup Winners place in Europe?...sounds a bit unlikely.....

 

any of you barrack-room lawyers out there with a UEFA rule book to hand know the answer to that one ?

 

This is all you need to know...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millwall_F.C.#Millwall_in_European_football

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Junior Mullet

Junior Mullet

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Posted

 

 

Ummm, no that is not what David in Sweden asked. Mr Sweden, if both Man C and Chelsea qualify for Europe in their own right the cup place will be reallocated to the highest placed Prem League team not already qualified for Europe.

 

BTW, Finland got a place last year and two years prior to that, so a similar record to our own. My hunch is it will be tight between Finland and England.

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Sour Mash

Sour Mash

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Ummm, no that is not what David in Sweden asked. Mr Sweden, if both Man C and Chelsea qualify for Europe in their own right the cup place will be reallocated to the highest placed Prem League team not already qualified for Europe.

 

BTW, Finland got a place last year and two years prior to that, so a similar record to our own. My hunch is it will be tight between Finland and England.

 

Surely either Millwall or Wigan will be in Europe next season as long as whichever team they play in the final has qualified via the league?

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Junior Mullet

Junior Mullet

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Surely either Millwall or Wigan will be in Europe next season as long as whichever team they play in the final has qualified via the league?

 

Yes, sorry - I hadnt been paying much attention to the FA Cup and therefore assumed from the post that it would be a Chelsea Man City final. You are absolutely right, the winner of Wigan Millwall will get to play in Europe provided that their opponent in the final qualifies for Europe via the league.

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david in sweden

david in sweden

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Posted
Too many fixtures unless our squad gets big soon

 

.....and why not I ask myself?. Chelsea and Man U.......whilst not so successful this season, have historically had one squad for the Prem.games ..and other players who turn up just for Euro games.....

.

None of them is just reliant on 11 players and 3 subs. Euro football pays big dividends......so why not a bigger investment in top players....?

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Deano6

Deano6

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Posted
Ummm, no that is not what David in Sweden asked. Mr Sweden, if both Man C and Chelsea qualify for Europe in their own right the cup place will be reallocated to the highest placed Prem League team not already qualified for Europe.

 

BTW, Finland got a place last year and two years prior to that, so a similar record to our own. My hunch is it will be tight between Finland and England.

 

Ummm, no...you are wrong. It answers exactly what he asked. Forget that the article is about Millwall, that is a coincidence. The fact is in 2004 a Championship side (Millwall) got to the FA Cup Final and lost to a team which qualified for the Champions League (Man U), and the next season played in the UEFA Cup (as it was then). So not only is there a precedent for a team doing it, Millwall themselves have done it!

 

Your assertion that the place would be reallocated to a team in the Premier League because they are a Championship side is wrong. Only in the Carling / Littlewoods / Worthington / Coca-Cola / Milk Cup does the place get reallocated to the league if the winner has already qualified, the runners-up do not qualify.

 

There was also a situation about 15 years ago when Newcastle qualified for Europe just by virtue of making the Semis, as all other teams had already qualified for Europe, so they changed it that you had to at least make the final. If I remember right Newcastle did then make the final, before being spanked by Man U.

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david in sweden

david in sweden

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Posted
Yes, sorry - I hadnt been paying much attention to the FA Cup and therefore assumed from the post that it would be a Chelsea Man City final.

You are absolutely right, the winner of Wigan Millwall will get to play in Europe provided that their opponent in the final qualifies for Europe via the league.

 

yes well I thought that too,

but wasn't there a case some seasons ago ...of a club who weren't allowed to take part in Euro games because of ground restrictions, or something that didn't meet UEFA standards ?...can't recall exactly..

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

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yes well I thought that too,

but wasn't there a case some seasons ago ...of a club who weren't allowed to take part in Euro games because of ground restrictions, or something that didn't meet UEFA standards ?...can't recall exactly..

 

There are far worse grounds than Wigan's or Millwall's in eastern Europe that play in UEFA competitions every year.

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Village Saint

Village Saint

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Posted
There are far worse grounds than Wigan's or Millwall's in eastern Europe that play in UEFA competitions every year.

 

I suspect that you may have missed David's point. I think he knows full well who the team involved were who weren't allowed to take up their European place but the reason for their exclusion was not to do with the ground but the state of their finances. They appealled but I am pretty sure were unsuccessful. They were a team from Hampshire.........

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VectisSaint

VectisSaint

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I suspect that you may have missed David's point. I think he knows full well who the team involved were who weren't allowed to take up their European place but the reason for their exclusion was not to do with the ground but the state of their finances. They appealled but I am pretty sure were unsuccessful. They were a team from Hampshire.........

Aldershot are a disgrace :-)

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Pugwash

Pugwash

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I suspect that you may have missed David's point. I think he knows full well who the team involved were who weren't allowed to take up their European place but the reason for their exclusion was not to do with the ground but the state of their finances. They appealled but I am pretty sure were unsuccessful. They were a team from Hampshire.........

 

IIRC they never actually made the application in time, which was well before they were even in the final. The half-hearted 'appeal' was a sop to keep their fans onside...

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