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Thread: Keeping Track of the Contracts

  1. #401

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    Seems like a good time to take stock of the squad size now that the european window has closed.

    By my reckoning we now only have 20 players over 21 years old (if you include marcus barnes) which means we've done some solid work on shifting players this window (think we started at around 35).on the face of it this means (being negative) we could have brought more in this summer, but (being positive) we have scope to be active in January (Will have 4 spaces once Sims returns).

    Of the 21 we'd currently have at season end, 5 are out of contract (long, yoshida, lewis, Cedric and barnes) and you'd think chances are they'd leave (possible exceptions being Maya and Lewis) leaving us with 16-18. Unfortunately 8 of the 9 out on season long loans will return with time left on their contracts meaning we'll start next summer at a full quota, even before adding in current u21 players who will no longer be young enough.

    So I guess good work freeing up wages and space, but actually until we shift in particular Carrillo, Ely, Lemina, hoedt and Forster on a permanent basis we'll remain somewhat hamstrung in our transfer dealings.

    Let's hope they all perform well out on loan to encourage permanent deals. I reckon we can be bold enough in January to bring in maybe 2 players guessing that of the almost 30 players we'd likely have next summer we could shift at least a couple of those easily enough (Hesketh, McQueen, Sims, reed) even if we are still lumbered with some very expensive misfits

  2. Default Barnes joins Eastleigh until January


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    25 man squad announced on PL website. It's a 24 man squad but includes 5 players on loan, 3 of whom are on season loans. El Younossi, Carrillo, Hoedt, Jones, Reed and Rose who are also on loan are all omitted. The U21 list also incudes any U21 who is on loan.

    https://www.premierleague.com/news/1335777

    Southampton

    25 Squad players (*Home grown)

    Adams, Che Sac Everton Fred*
    Alves Soares, Cedric Ricardo
    Armstrong, Stuart
    Barnes, Marcus Thomas*
    Bednarek, Jan
    Bertrand, Ryan*
    Boufal, Sofiane
    Forster, Fraser Gerard*
    Gunn, Angus Fraser James*
    Hesketh, Jake Alexander*
    Hojbjerg, Pierre Emile Kordt
    Ings, Daniel William John*
    Lemina, Mario Rene Junior
    Lewis, Harry Charles John*
    Long, Shane Patrick*
    McCarthy, Alex Simon*
    McQueen, Samuel James*
    Redmond, Nathan Daniel Jerome*
    Sims, Joshua Samuel*
    Stephens, Jack*
    Vestergaard, Jannik
    Vidal, Oriol Romeu
    Ward-Prowse, James Michael Edward*
    Yoshida, Maya

    U21 players (Contracts and Scholars)

    Agbontohoma, David Osaretim
    Bailey, Samuel James
    Bellis, Samuel Lawrence Alexander
    Brennan, Sean Anthony
    Burnett, Ethan Darren
    Bycroft, Jack Thomas
    Chauke, Kgaogelo
    Cluett, Ryan
    Cull, Alexander
    Danso, Kevin
    Davey, Teddy Jay
    Defise, Lucas Nsiona K
    Djenepo, Moussa
    Ferry, William
    Freeman, Kieran
    Glean, Rio Kamil
    Hale, Harlem
    Hall, Matthew Gary
    Hamblin, Harry Mark
    Hansen, Kornelius Normann
    Idowu, Roland
    Jankewitz, Alexandre Tounde Dimitri
    Johnson, Tyreke Martin
    Keogh, Seamas
    Klarer, Christoph
    Kozak, Simon
    Kpohomouh, Pascal
    Latham, Kingsley Finn
    Ledwidge, Kameron Malcolm
    Mitchell, Ramello Dejorn
    Morris, James William
    Nlundulu, Dan
    Norton, Christian Anthony
    O'Connor, Thomas James
    O'Driscoll, Aaron
    Obafemi, Michael Oluwadurotimi
    Olaigbe, Kazeem Aderemi J.
    Olufunwa, Oludare Samuel Araba
    Otseh-Taiwo, Zuriel Jonathan
    Ramsay, Kayne
    Robise, Enzo
    Rus, Marco
    Saunders, Michael
    Scott, Tommy John
    Slattery, Callum
    Smales Braithwaite, Benjamin
    Smallbone, William Anthony Patrick
    Smith, Jayden Pharell Llamar Mills
    Tchaptchet, Wandja Allan
    Tella, Nathan
    Tizzard, William James
    Turner, Jack Henry
    Valery, Yan
    Vokins, Jake
    Watts, Caleb Cassius
    Watts, Callum Neil
    Wright, Oliver Lennon George


    Separately the squad numbers have been published including for all the U23s and many of the U21 - see separate thread on squad numbers and https://www.premierleague.com/news/1336193

  4. #404

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    Sims to a RB team in US has also the intention to make him aquainted during that time to the style Hasenhüttl is playing. Because all RB teams use a somehow similar system to Southampton under RH.

  5. #405

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    Quote Originally Posted by Over land and sea View Post
    25 man squad announced on PL website. It's a 24 man squad but includes 5 players on loan, 3 of whom are on season loans. El Younossi, Carrillo, Hoedt, Jones, Reed and Rose who are also on loan are all omitted. The U21 list also incudes any U21 who is on loan.

    https://www.premierleague.com/news/1335777

    Southampton

    25 Squad players (*Home grown)

    Adams, Che Sac Everton Fred*
    Alves Soares, Cedric Ricardo
    Armstrong, Stuart
    Barnes, Marcus Thomas*
    Bednarek, Jan
    Bertrand, Ryan*
    Boufal, Sofiane
    Forster, Fraser Gerard*
    Gunn, Angus Fraser James*
    Hesketh, Jake Alexander*
    Hojbjerg, Pierre Emile Kordt
    Ings, Daniel William John*
    Lemina, Mario Rene Junior
    Lewis, Harry Charles John*
    Long, Shane Patrick*
    McCarthy, Alex Simon*
    McQueen, Samuel James*
    Redmond, Nathan Daniel Jerome*
    Sims, Joshua Samuel*
    Stephens, Jack*
    Vestergaard, Jannik
    Vidal, Oriol Romeu
    Ward-Prowse, James Michael Edward*
    Yoshida, Maya

    U21 players (Contracts and Scholars)

    Agbontohoma, David Osaretim
    Bailey, Samuel James
    Bellis, Samuel Lawrence Alexander
    Brennan, Sean Anthony
    Burnett, Ethan Darren
    Bycroft, Jack Thomas
    Chauke, Kgaogelo
    Cluett, Ryan
    Cull, Alexander
    Danso, Kevin
    Davey, Teddy Jay
    Defise, Lucas Nsiona K
    Djenepo, Moussa
    Ferry, William
    Freeman, Kieran
    Glean, Rio Kamil
    Hale, Harlem
    Hall, Matthew Gary
    Hamblin, Harry Mark
    Hansen, Kornelius Normann
    Idowu, Roland
    Jankewitz, Alexandre Tounde Dimitri
    Johnson, Tyreke Martin
    Keogh, Seamas
    Klarer, Christoph
    Kozak, Simon
    Kpohomouh, Pascal
    Latham, Kingsley Finn
    Ledwidge, Kameron Malcolm
    Mitchell, Ramello Dejorn
    Morris, James William
    Nlundulu, Dan
    Norton, Christian Anthony
    O'Connor, Thomas James
    O'Driscoll, Aaron
    Obafemi, Michael Oluwadurotimi
    Olaigbe, Kazeem Aderemi J.
    Olufunwa, Oludare Samuel Araba
    Otseh-Taiwo, Zuriel Jonathan
    Ramsay, Kayne
    Robise, Enzo
    Rus, Marco
    Saunders, Michael
    Scott, Tommy John
    Slattery, Callum
    Smales Braithwaite, Benjamin
    Smallbone, William Anthony Patrick
    Smith, Jayden Pharell Llamar Mills
    Tchaptchet, Wandja Allan
    Tella, Nathan
    Tizzard, William James
    Turner, Jack Henry
    Valery, Yan
    Vokins, Jake
    Watts, Caleb Cassius
    Watts, Callum Neil
    Wright, Oliver Lennon George


    Separately the squad numbers have been published including for all the U23s and many of the U21 - see separate thread on squad numbers and https://www.premierleague.com/news/1336193
    Question : why are Forster and Sims in the 25 man squad when they are already out on loan ??
    Also is Adams really - Che, Sac, Everton, Fred

  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eurosaint View Post
    Question : why are Forster and Sims in the 25 man squad when they are already out on loan ??
    Also is Adams really - Che, Sac, Everton, Fred
    Is it because they have recall clauses?

  7. #407

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    Sims should be back in November after a short loan, so he'll be available to play right away, rather than having to wait until January.

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    Perhaps it's to do with the terms of the loan - whether there is any possibility of a recall. There are 11 over 21s out on loan so 5 had to be omitted to get the number down to 25 - we decided to omit 6 to give us a 24 man squad. Since Sims and Barnes are on half season loans that made more likely candidates to include (though we get the chance to update the list in January so still doesn't seem strictly necessary). But what the thinking was for choosing to include Lemina, Forster and Hesketh and omit Reed, Hoedt, Elyounoussi, Carillo, Jones and Reed, is not clear. I don't think it can be how close to the deadline the loans were agreed because Hoedt's was one of the last to be agreed.

  9. #409

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    Quote Originally Posted by eurosaint View Post
    Question : why are Forster and Sims in the 25 man squad when they are already out on loan ??
    Also is Adams really - Che, Sac, Everton, Fred
    He's actually Che Zach Everton Fred Adams, so at least we know who'll be signing him if he's very good but not brilliant.

  10. Default N'Lundulu seals two-year extension


  11. #411

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    Ralph was quite impatient with the PR who asked questions about contracts for Cedric & Hoj at the end of the season - I am only focused on staying in this league, (sic) if we do this than we can talk about contracts etc.

    Of course his own contract is up at the end of the season as well, just thinking out loud or a slip of the tongue. Seems he'll be heading off one way or another.

  12. #412

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Wayman View Post
    Ralph was quite impatient with the PR who asked questions about contracts for Cedric & Hoj at the end of the season - I am only focused on staying in this league, (sic) if we do this than we can talk about contracts etc.

    Of course his own contract is up at the end of the season as well, just thinking out loud or a slip of the tongue. Seems he'll be heading off one way or another.
    Ralph’s contract is up at the End of next season not this season.




  13. #416

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    The turn over of young kids now is astonishing, these two lads are obviously our latest hotshots and of course their rise puts pressure on the lads still trying to get a place on the bench for the first team. Time is not on the side of the Sims, Ramsey, Slattery generation. Seemingly Klarer's loan to an Austrian team could be a one-way ticket to oblivion. Another lad full of promise who didn't make it here.

    What worries me about this new breed is their apparent lack of passion evident in the Olaigbe video when he was given hi first pro-contract, almost as 'though he expected to get it anyway wherever he was and that getting it at Saints has no special meaning for him. I guess if he becomes star he'll be off at the drop of a wallet. Maybe I'm being a bit harsh but that's the message I'm getting.

  14. #417

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Wayman View Post
    The turn over of young kids now is astonishing, these two lads are obviously our latest hotshots and of course their rise puts pressure on the lads still trying to get a place on the bench for the first team. Time is not on the side of the Sims, Ramsey, Slattery generation. Seemingly Klarer's loan to an Austrian team could be a one-way ticket to oblivion. Another lad full of promise who didn't make it here.
    Think you are misreading the Klarer loan. Exactly what he needs for development. At 19 he is not going to break into our first team for a while. Loans to lower level leagues are designed to toughen him up and experience playing regular competitive football. Obviously going to Austria allows him to be close to family, its not easy for young kids to live so far away from home for so long. Reckon he will be here for a few years yet, maybe in a couple of years we will see him beginning to make inroads to the 1st team.

  15. Default Ferry pens two-year contract extension


  16. #419

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    Kieran Freeman has left at the end of his contract also to rejoin Dundee Utd, had two bad knee injuries in his time here.


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    Quote Originally Posted by harriesss View Post
    Kieran Freeman has left at the end of his contract also to rejoin Dundee Utd, had two bad knee injuries in his time here.
    Really bad injuries. Hope he gets back on track up there.

  18. #421

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    Quote Originally Posted by VectisSaint View Post
    Think you are misreading the Klarer loan. Exactly what he needs for development. At 19 he is not going to break into our first team for a while. Loans to lower level leagues are designed to toughen him up and experience playing regular competitive football. Obviously going to Austria allows him to be close to family, its not easy for young kids to live so far away from home for so long. Reckon he will be here for a few years yet, maybe in a couple of years we will see him beginning to make inroads to the 1st team.
    All of what you say may be true and I hope you are right. There has been a change of leadership at the academy at all levels and the new coaches may see things quite differently to their predecessors, who let's face were not very successful in recruiting and nurturing young players to PL standards. There is also the need not to cause a log jam at the U23 level so players have to be moved on in one way or another after a season or two. Of course it is not easy for the club to make the right calls every time - who to keep or who to move on.

    I've watched Klarer quite a few times, he seems mostly solid and steady but makes mistakes and shows few signs of becoming a super star. Will he be any better than what we have here already remain a mute point?

  19. #422

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    Along with the news that Sims has returned to the US for the season, Simon Kozak has returned to Slovakia for the season as well. Had a number of injuries while here and his contracts up at the end of the season.


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  20. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by harriesss View Post
    Along with the news that Sims has returned to the US for the season, Simon Kozak has returned to Slovakia for the season as well. Had a number of injuries while here and his contracts up at the end of the season.
    I suppose now is the time of year we start to help lads potentially find clubs who we aren’t going to renew contracts for.


  21. Default Johnson and Latham sign one-year extensions


  22. #426

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    Pleased about Johnson - looked to have real pace when he got a few appearances last season.

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    Latham was highly rated by Dorch fans on loan there, said he looked a class above. Granted not very difficult at that level though.

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  24. #428

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    Quote Originally Posted by SNSUN View Post
    Pleased about Johnson - looked to have real pace when he got a few appearances last season.
    Me too, have always like the cut of his jib. Hope Ralph will include him in next year's squad and give him a few more outings. He's quite an exciting player to watch and seems full of promise. Good sign he hasn't been sent off to Tranmere or Barrow.

  25. Default Harry Hamblin: Macclesfield sign Southampton midfielder on free transfer


  26. #430

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Wayman View Post
    Ralph was quite impatient with the PR who asked questions about contracts for Cedric & Hoj at the end of the season - I am only focused on staying in this league, (sic) if we do this than we can talk about contracts etc.

    Of course his own contract is up at the end of the season as well, just thinking out loud or a slip of the tongue. Seems he'll be heading off one way or another.
    It's so sad that as soon as a manager begins to successfully rebuild the squad, it always seems to be that forces work agains our progress. Our second most experienced defender Cedric has left, weakening the defence, and now it's been reported that Hoj has been touted to leave. It may only be a rumour, but rumours have the effect of unsettling our better players. This isn't what we need. We are still quite a few points from safety and we have to come back from consecutive defeats.

    I think Ralph could be committed to renew his contract because he loves challenges. But if he is undermined by continually having the best in his squad leave, who wouldn't be tempted when he has made such a positive impression in the Premiership, where big clubs always seek top managers. I do believe that Ralph's heart is with developing our youth players into making Saints a great club again, which is why my money is on Ralph extending his contract.

    Meanwhile, Charlie, to speculate that Ralph is heading off (you're the first I've read with that suggestion) really does not help. Supporters want to support a club with ambition.

    So Mr Gao, please show your own commitment to Saints long term future. Selling our best is the path to ruin, so back Ralph!

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    I've updated the opening post with all the deadline day changes. A few things that may be of interest:

    - the revised 25-man squads will be announced this week - probably tomorrow. We have only 19 players over 21 that we will need to list, if we opt not to list anyone who is out on loan.
    - we currently have 19 players out on loan - surely a club record. 12 of those are over 21, 7 are U21 (1 of whom is a scholar)
    - Johnson and Latham's new contracts are intersting in that both will no longer qualify as under 21s next season (similarly Moussa Djenepo, and also Kevin Danso and Jacob Maddox if they are both retained)
    - next September, we face another struggle to get the squad down to 25 players or below that qualify as over 21s. Including all currently loaned in and loaned out players there are 36 such players - that said 9 of these will be out of contract in the summer
    - in additon to these 9 players there are currently 18 U21s out of contract this summer - presumably this figure will come down a bit before the end of the season but it's unusually high
    Last edited by Over land and sea; 02-02-2020 at 05:10 PM.

  28. #432

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    Quote Originally Posted by Over land and sea View Post
    I've updated the opening post with all the deadline day changes. A few things that may be of interest:

    - the revised 25-man squads will be announced this week - probably tomorrow. We have only 19 players over 21 that we will need to list, if we opt not to list anyone who is out on loan.
    - we currently have 19 players out on loan - surely a club record. 12 of those are over 21, 7 are U21 (1 of whom is a scholar)
    - Johnson and Latham's new contracts are intersting in that both will no longer qualify as under 21s next season (similarly Moussa Djenepo, and also Kevin Danso and Jacob Maddox if they are both retained)
    - next September, we face another struggle to get the squad down to 25 players or below that qualify as over 21s. Including all currently loaned in and loaned out players there are 36 such players - that said 9 of these will be out of contract in the summer
    - in additon to these 9 players there are currently 18 U21s out of contract this summer - presumably this figure will come down a bit before the end of the season but it's unusually high
    Thanks (as always) for updating this. I can’t see any solution this summer other than releasing all of our over-21s with contracts expiring and selling our 5 unwanted over-paid players for big discounts. I think Gao is better to take the hit in one go this summer so we can start rebuilding immediately with the new DoF. I don’t see much point in continually loaning the unwanted players out until they run down their contracts and leave for free.

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    Updated 25 man squad lists published on PL website.

    https://www.premierleague.com/news/1603207

    It's a 21 man squad, 15 of whom are home grown. It includes 2 players who are out on loan (Rose and Jones). In September, we named 5 players who were out on loan in the squad but not Jones or Rose! So it does seem a bit random which of the loan players are included (on this occasion it does boost the home grown numbers but that wasn't a factor in September). El Younossi, Carrillo, Hoedt, Reed, Cédric, Yoshida, Forster, Hesketh, Lemina and Sims who are out on loan are all omitted from the latest list.

    The U21 list also incudes any U21 who is out on loan, as there is no limit to the number you can list.


    Southampton

    25 Squad players (*Home grown) - 21 players

    Adams, Che Sac Everton Fred*
    Armstrong, Stuart
    Barnes, Marcus Thomas*
    Bednarek, Jan
    Bertrand, Ryan*
    Boufal, Sofiane
    Gunn, Angus Fraser James*
    Hojbjerg, Pierre Emile Kordt
    Ings, Daniel William John*
    Jones, Alfie Charles*
    Lewis, Harry Charles John*
    Long, Shane Patrick*
    McCarthy, Alex Simon*
    McQueen, Samuel James*
    Redmond, Nathan Daniel Jerome*
    Rose, Jack Joseph*
    Stephens, Jack*
    Vestergaard, Jannik
    Vidal, Oriol Romeu
    Walker-Peters, Kyle*
    Ward-Prowse, James Michael Edward*

    U21 players (Contracts and Scholars) - 56 players

    Agbontohoma, David Osaretim
    Bailey, Samuel James
    Bellis, Samuel Lawrence Alexander
    Brennan, Sean Anthony
    Burnett, Ethan Darren
    Bycroft, Jack Thomas
    Chauke, Kgaogelo
    Cluett, Ryan
    Cull, Alexander
    Danso, Kevin
    Davey, Teddy Jay
    Defise, Lucas Nsiona K
    Djenepo, Moussa
    Ferry, William
    Glean, Rio Kamil
    Hale, Harlem
    Hall, Matthew Gary
    Hansen, Kornelius Normann
    Idowu, Roland
    Jankewitz, Alexandre Tounde Dimitri
    Johnson, Tyreke Martin
    Keogh, Seamas
    Klarer, Christoph
    Kozak, Simon
    Kpohomouh, Pascal
    Latham, Kingsley Finn
    Ledwidge, Kameron Malcolm
    Maddox, Jacob
    Mitchell, Ramello Dejorn
    Morris, James William
    Nlundulu, Dan
    Norton, Christian Anthony
    O'Connor, Thomas James
    O'Driscoll, Aaron
    Obafemi, Michael Oluwadurotimi
    Olaigbe, Kazeem Aderemi J.
    Olufunwa, Oludare Samuel Araba
    Otseh-Taiwo, Zuriel Jonathan
    Ramsay, Kayne
    Robise, Enzo
    Rus, Marco
    Saunders, Michael
    Scott, Tommy John
    Slattery, Callum
    Smales Braithwaite, Benjamin
    Smallbone, William Anthony Patrick
    Smith, Jayden Pharell Llamar Mills
    Tchaptchet, Wandja Allan
    Tella, Nathan
    Tizzard, William James
    Turner, Jack Henry
    Valery, Yan
    Vokins, Jake
    Watts, Caleb Cassius
    Watts, Callum Neil
    Wright, Oliver Lennon George
    Last edited by Over land and sea; 06-02-2020 at 01:53 PM.

  30. #434

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    Thank you OLAS. Out of interest, do you have a list of the current U21 players who won't be come next season (you mentioned Johnson for example). Be interesting to have a look at what things might look like before we plan the summer cull!

    As an aside, it's funny how things go ... A few months ago I thought the only senior pro out of contract this summer with a chance (albeit slim) of being extended was Maya. Now the only one you'd make a case for is Long. One would hope on less money, despite his recent goal rush (!!) but he might just be playing himself into a new contract.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
    Thank you OLAS. Out of interest, do you have a list of the current U21 players who won't be come next season (you mentioned Johnson for example). Be interesting to have a look at what things might look like before we plan the summer cull!

    As an aside, it's funny how things go ... A few months ago I thought the only senior pro out of contract this summer with a chance (albeit slim) of being extended was Maya. Now the only one you'd make a case for is Long. One would hope on less money, despite his recent goal rush (!!) but he might just be playing himself into a new contract.
    There are 5 in the current U21 list that would have to be named in the 25 man squad to play in the PL next season, including 2 who are loaned in and who therefore will be out of contract.

    Tyreke Johnson
    Kingsley Latham
    Moussa Djénépo
    Kevin Danso
    Jacob Maddox

    Yes, I'd give Long a new contract above anyone else on the list of out of contract players but I know that's not a view that is universally shared on this forum!

    The list of out of contract players is unusually lengthy for this stage of the season. In particular there are a lot of 2nd year scholars who have not yet been offered a pro deal. In fact, many of the 1st year scholars appear to have moved ahead of them both in contract terms and in game time for the U23s. Given we have nearly 20 players out on loan that suggests the squad as a whole is too big so the summer provides an opportunity to address that at the U21/U18 level, and to a lesser extent at first team level.

  32. #436

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    Quote Originally Posted by Over land and sea View Post
    There are 5 in the current U21 list that would have to be named in the 25 man squad to play in the PL next season, including 2 who are loaned in and who therefore will be out of contract.

    Tyreke Johnson
    Kingsley Latham
    Moussa Djénépo
    Kevin Danso
    Jacob Maddox

    Yes, I'd give Long a new contract above anyone else on the list of out of contract players but I know that's not a view that is universally shared on this forum!

    The list of out of contract players is unusually lengthy for this stage of the season. In particular there are a lot of 2nd year scholars who have not yet been offered a pro deal. In fact, many of the 1st year scholars appear to have moved ahead of them both in contract terms and in game time for the U23s. Given we have nearly 20 players out on loan that suggests the squad as a whole is too big so the summer provides an opportunity to address that at the U21/U18 level, and to a lesser extent at first team level.
    Even at 33 he’s as fit as he ever was and is key to the way we play, and seems to have a decent partnership as foil for Ings. (As long as we can keep hold of him next season) If we can’t get someone better, then I’d give him a new contract. But only for a season, and he might think he can get a two year deal elsewhere.

  33. #437

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon3737 View Post
    Thanks (as always) for updating this. I can’t see any solution this summer other than releasing all of our over-21s with contracts expiring and selling our 5 unwanted over-paid players for big discounts. I think Gao is better to take the hit in one go this summer so we can start rebuilding immediately with the new DoF. I don’t see much point in continually loaning the unwanted players out until they run down their contracts and leave for free.
    how big is big? Everyone knows they are unwanted players on big contracts. There aren't buyers out there. There is little incentive to offer a transfer fee when they can not only get them on loan for free but have a percentage of their wages paid too. We want to sell, but the five will go out on loan again. We are already taking a hit, so to speak.

  34. #438

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    Quote Originally Posted by SNSUN View Post
    Even at 33 he’s as fit as he ever was and is key to the way we play, and seems to have a decent partnership as foil for Ings. (As long as we can keep hold of him next season) If we can’t get someone better, then I’d give him a new contract. But only for a season, and he might think he can get a two year deal elsewhere.
    Long would take another year (with us) all day....long. His family are settled and love the forest. Shane is looking forward to retiring and getting away from the footballers life. 1 year is the sensible move all round IMO

  35. #439

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    how big is big? Everyone knows they are unwanted players on big contracts. There aren't buyers out there. There is little incentive to offer a transfer fee when they can not only get them on loan for free but have a percentage of their wages paid too. We want to sell, but the five will go out on loan again. We are already taking a hit, so to speak.
    It is not free, along with part or all of wages paid, a loan fee will also be paid to Saints.

  36. #440

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeG View Post
    Long would take another year (with us) all day....long. His family are settled and love the forest. Shane is looking forward to retiring and getting away from the footballers life. 1 year is the sensible move all round IMO
    Sounds like a no brainer for him and us. He's a decent squad player and hopefully we'll get him signed up.

  37. #441

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chez View Post
    how big is big? Everyone knows they are unwanted players on big contracts. There aren't buyers out there. There is little incentive to offer a transfer fee when they can not only get them on loan for free but have a percentage of their wages paid too. We want to sell, but the five will go out on loan again. We are already taking a hit, so to speak.
    Exactly.

    With the obvious caveat that I only know what is rumoured on here, it sounds like these 5 players are a net drain on our budget (i.e. the loan fee and partial wage repayments from the loaning clubs is not enough to offset the wages we pay them).

    If that’s true, then the only way to recoup these losses is to sell them for a fee and evidence suggests nobody wants to buy them for the wages they think they deserve (and are paid now, thanks Les!).

    It looks like they are all simply running down their contracts until they become free agents. On that basis, we cannot recoup any of our investment. Every month we keep them is losing us money.

    Assuming the above is true, we should just sell them as soon as we can for any amount for a quick sale. For example, selling Carrillo this summer for £1 million would literally save us money (compared to subsidising him every month until he runs his contact down).

    I expect we’d get some willing buyers in a bargain basement fire sale situation, but (in economic terms) letting them leave on free transfers may well save us money. This would be terrible publicity for the club obviously, which is probably what’s stopping them.

    Alternatively, of course, maybe the rumours are wrong and we’re making profits on these loans and everything is fine!

  38. #442

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    Carillo will clearly just be loaned out again, no doubt with Saints paying a hefty chunk of his wages.

    He is a free agent the summer after, so no incentive for him to take a pay cut now, and any club knows that we will be more than happy to loan him out again.

    Hopefully Lemina, Hoedt, Elyounoussi and Forster can be sold if we are reasonable about fees, which you would hope we will be.

  39. #443

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    Quote Originally Posted by Over land and sea View Post
    There are 5 in the current U21 list that would have to be named in the 25 man squad to play in the PL next season, including 2 who are loaned in and who therefore will be out of contract.

    Tyreke Johnson
    Kingsley Latham
    Moussa Djénépo
    Kevin Danso
    Jacob Maddox

    Yes, I'd give Long a new contract above anyone else on the list of out of contract players but I know that's not a view that is universally shared on this forum!

    The list of out of contract players is unusually lengthy for this stage of the season. In particular there are a lot of 2nd year scholars who have not yet been offered a pro deal. In fact, many of the 1st year scholars appear to have moved ahead of them both in contract terms and in game time for the U23s. Given we have nearly 20 players out on loan that suggests the squad as a whole is too big so the summer provides an opportunity to address that at the U21/U18 level, and to a lesser extent at first team level.
    Thanks for the info, grateful as always.

    Good job we now have a DoF (or whatever his correct title is) in place now, because holy sh1t there's some decisions to be made this summer.

    Based on what you've advised, I reckon come the summer we have the following players over 21 and on contracts over a year: McCarthy, Vesti, Stephens, Ings, Adams, JWP, Armstrong, Redmond, Gunn, Bednarek, Djenepo, Hoedt, Ely, Lemina and Forster.

    We obviously want to try and sell the last 4, and for the right money would probably sell a couple others. This is the core of the squad to build our long-term future around, and is shockingly week. You can add the following 'first-team' youngsters on longer contracts as well: Slattery, Obafemi and Valery. Doesn't look massively better.

    We have options with the following who are out of contract: Long, Lewis, Barnes, Cedric, Maya and Rose; and our players on-loan: Danso, KWP and Maddox. I doubt we'll extend more than 1, possibly 2 of those combined lists.

    We've got the following with one year left, who we can see leave for reduced fees (a very good thing to shift on many of these, less good for the ones we want to keep): Romeu, Boufal, Bertrand, Hojberg, McQueen, Carillo, Sims, Hesketh, Jones and Reed. Do we chuck money at those we want to stay? Given the first set of 'core' players, I don't think we have much choice ... So long as the players want to sign! PEH is the most pressing concern here IMHO.

    You could add Johnson and Latham to the list, but they've just signed extensions so I guess are playing for their futures over the next 12 months. Which leads onto the next list, u21 players with either first team or loan experience, also out of contract next summer: Smallbone, Vokins, Ramsay, O'Connor, Hall and Klarer. Decisions needed on all. None scream at you as nailed on first-team critical players.

    And finally 17 youngsters out of contract this summer, needing more urgent decisions: Norton, Olofunwa, Hansen, O'Driscoll, Tella, Hale, Cull, Scott, Ogbonotohoma, Defise, Cluett, Burnett, Idowu, Glean, Watts, Morris and Kozak. Again, no obvious candidates for extending here.

    Granted there's the next batch of youngsters I've missed off, but wow that's a lot of decision-making and work to do. And also a damning indictment on the state of the playing-staff left for the DoF to have to sort to improve.

    On the plus side with so many contracts ending in the next 16-17 months we will be freeing up a lot of space and money but it does seriously make you wonder at the wisdom of leaving this post unattended for so long ahead of such a critical two transfer windows.

    Assuming we stay up, obviously ...!
    Last edited by Chewy; 09-02-2020 at 08:24 AM. Reason: Typo

  40. #444

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chewy View Post

    Good job we now have a DoF (or whatever his correct title is) in place now, because holy sh1t there's some decisions to be made this summer.
    No we don't. That appointment has been put off until, supposedly, the end of the season.

    No idea who is going to be making the decisions on contract renewals. Maybe the kit man - he seems popular.


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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyell View Post
    No we don't. That appointment has been put off until, supposedly, the end of the season.

    No idea who is going to be making the decisions on contract renewals. Maybe the kit man - he seems popular.
    DoF is in. Recruitment specialist isn’t.

  42. #446

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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyell View Post
    No we don't. That appointment has been put off until, supposedly, the end of the season.

    No idea who is going to be making the decisions on contract renewals. Maybe the kit man - he seems popular.


    Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk
    Matt Crocker is DoFO, defo. Director of Football Operations. His role is 'to oversee the development of every aspect of its football operations, and develop every department that supports all of the club's teams.' Same job title as Ross Wilson had. Think Matt will be making the decisions, perhaps why some decisions have been put on the ba k burner until he started officially last week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VectisSaint View Post
    Matt Crocker is DoFO, defo. Director of Football Operations. His role is 'to oversee the development of every aspect of its football operations, and develop every department that supports all of the club's teams.' Same job title as Ross Wilson had. Think Matt will be making the decisions, perhaps why some decisions have been put on the ba k burner until he started officially last week.
    Some decisions?? If my maths is right my above list contains 44 contractual decisions by next summer, not including the swathe of youngsters ending contracts June 21, not including the 4 on longer contracts we definitely want to try and sell (Forster, Ely, Hoedt & Lamima), and not including any recruitment whatsoever.

    That's quite some job He has.

  44. #448

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
    Some decisions?? If my maths is right my above list contains 44 contractual decisions by next summer, not including the swathe of youngsters ending contracts June 21, not including the 4 on longer contracts we definitely want to try and sell (Forster, Ely, Hoedt & Lamima), and not including any recruitment whatsoever.

    That's quite some job He has.
    Guess that's why we employed him. Good to keep him busy.

  45. #449

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
    Some decisions?? If my maths is right my above list contains 44 contractual decisions by next summer, not including the swathe of youngsters ending contracts June 21, not including the 4 on longer contracts we definitely want to try and sell (Forster, Ely, Hoedt & Lamima), and not including any recruitment whatsoever.

    That's quite some job He has.

    What a terrible mess and all of our own making. Somebody needs to sort this out once and for all. Let's hope Mr Crocker has a ruthless streak in him.

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