Would you ever give up being British?

30 years ago I was told that if you became a US citizen you had to renounce all others, but that the UK didn't recognise the renunciation.

Just because I have to"renounce all others" to become a US citizen doesnt mean I have to give up my British Citizenship or Passport.

If I ever had the chance to live in America and claim US citizenship I would do it, regardless if it meant giving up my British passport. While there are many worse places to live in the world, there is so much I hate about this country.

America is a good place to live IF you have money. When I was there it was superb, I thought it was what Britain would be like if we didn't have to subsidise a load of scrounging northerners. There were plenty of areas that looked really poor in the US though, I expect being there with little money is a pretty cr@p existence.

When you look at other sh!t holes around the world, we can consider ourselves very lucky to be in England.

As would I. Never, ever thought I'd even entertain the idea!

Me too. Britain today is a pale shadow of what it once was. Hopelessly overcrowded, crumbling infrastructure, everything done on the cheap and crummy weather.

I'm sure I've written this oodles of times before, but in his book The English, Jeremy Paxman argues that a defining characteristic of being English is not giving a toss about your Englishness. He also argues that fascism never took root in this country because collectively, we could never muster the sort of fervent nationalism that normally comes part and parcel with such ideologies.

I paraphrase of course, but I'm also insinuating that Barry Sanchez is online searching for jackboots.

Just because I have to"renounce all others" to become a US citizen doesnt mean I have to give up my British Citizenship or Passport.

Yes, that's the quirkiness of the situation. You become American but you can always go back to being British.

It seems that every country is different. For Britain it's where you were born but for Germany it's by blood, that is on who your parents were. A technician who worked for me for many years had an Australian father and was very proud of his Australian connections but he was born in the UK before 26th January 1949 so he could not automatically apply for citizenship. His younger sister was born after this date so she qualified. He persisted and eventually got his green Aussie passport of which he was very proud. It had always been his intention to retire out near Sydney where his mother still lives. He died of lung cancer at the age of 63 without fulfilling his dream.

About 30 years ago I was offered the opportunity to switch from the RN to the USN. Financially it was a very good offer (promised promotion, etc) and the US look after their military personnel far better than our government does; however, had I accepted the offer I would have had to relinquish my British citizenship - which was something I was not prepared to do. I often wonder now if I made the correct decision, but am sure I would do the same again if sent back in time to chose again.

Now, of course, I live here in Belarus. I have a residency permit which gives me all the rights of a local citizen except the ability to vote in elections (there are many comments I could make here, but will refrain from doing so at this time..........) The only other 'advantage' having a Belarus passport would give me is the ability to travel through, work and live in Russia and Russian Federation countries. Again, to get a Belarus passport I would need to relinquish my British one (and pass both written and oral tests in either Russian or Belorusian language). Even the most nationalistic Belorisian would admit that I would be mad to do so.

To answer the OP, no way would I give up my British citizenship.

Interestingly, in Belarus children are permitted to have dual nationality but (as the law stands at present) must decide at 17 which one to keep/relinquish. It then states that, 'the other nationality will be longer be recognised'. In other words, if my daughter still holds a Belarus passport after her 17th birthday they will not accept that she is also British. However, a child (under 18) cannot relinquish their nationality. As she is a girl this is no biggie, she will just keep both passports - but a boy would have to do national service; which, here, is 18 months of unpaid slave labour working on some General's dacha.

About 30 years ago I was offered the opportunity to switch from the RN to the USN. Financially it was a very good offer (promised promotion, etc) and the US look after their military personnel far better than our government does; however, had I accepted the offer I would have had to relinquish my British citizenship - which was something I was not prepared to do. I often wonder now if I made the correct decision, but am sure I would do the same again if sent back in time to chose again.

I had a similar opportunity but to the Kiwi navy.

Whilst I have a great life with a wonderful wife and three great kids I do regret not doing it when I had the chance.

I've never taken anything he said seriosuly since a butler called Edmund Blackadder mugged him off about a few missing words from his dictonary.

May I offer you my esteemed confibularites for this posting.

If the Mail get the UK to leave the EU, then I would go for a French passport in a heartbeat.

 

The only things we come back to the UK for are friends/family/football, and after a week we are homesick for France.

why wait until/if we leave the EU....bye bye

It is always said that you don't regret what you've do e, you only regret what you haven't done.

It is always said that you don't regret what you've do e, you only regret what you haven't done.

Go **** a squirrel Whitey, theres still time.

I'm sure I've written this oodles of times before, but in his book The English, Jeremy Paxman argues that a defining characteristic of being English is not giving a toss about your Englishness. He also argues that fascism never took root in this country because collectively, we could never muster the sort of fervent nationalism that normally comes part and parcel with such ideologies.

 

I paraphrase of course, but I'm also insinuating that Barry Sanchez is online searching for jackboots.

Classy Pap as always, nothing to justify that at all, a typical wet Liberal.

Classy Pap as always, nothing to justify that at all, a typical wet Liberal.

Relax darling. I was joking. Also, look up the word liberal. Lower and uppercase.

Relax darling. I was joking. Also, look up the word liberal. Lower and uppercase.

I should call you Malcolm from the modern parents in Viz, you have that kind of feel, a rather self righteous Liberal who I guess would probably move to a Country far more right wing than this one at the drop of a hat..............................

And so with the arrival of the usual suspects, the thread descends to petty name calling and snide insults...

Relax darling. I was joking. Also, look up the word liberal. Lower and uppercase.

.

I should call you Malcolm from the modern parents in Viz, you have that kind of feel, a rather self righteous Liberal who I guess would probably move to a Country far more right wing than this one at the drop of a hat..............................

I'd never call my kids Tarquin or Guinevere, although props for the reference, inaccurate as it may be.

Are you not proud of our liberal tradition, Bazza?

I'd never call my kids Tarquin or Guinevere, although props for the reference, inaccurate as it may be.

 

Are you not proud of our liberal tradition, Bazza?

What liberal tradition Pap?

And so with the arrival of the usual suspects, the thread descends to petty name calling and snide insults...

I apologise, it will get back on track after Pap calls me every reactionary name under the sun, very open minded and liberal from our socialist leader...................

I apologise, it will get back on track after Pap calls me every reactionary name under the sun, very open minded and liberal from our socialist leader...................

I'm having a hard time with the bile right now, Bazza. It's gloriously sunny where I am, and I've spent two of the past three weeks being the absolute centre of attention on account of my accent (which I'm playing up, to be sure).

How's Liverpool?

I'm having a hard time with the bile right now, Bazza. It's gloriously sunny where I am, and I've spent two of the past three weeks being the absolute centre of attention on account of my accent (which I'm playing up, to be sure).

 

How's Liverpool?

Good in fact great, became a dad last Friday for the first time, born in Whiston not the Womens as its a poor hospital now and the Whiston unit is new, sunny here as well,not too sure about West Derby though, does it shine in Norris Green?

Go **** a squirrel Whitey, theres still time.

You've got to catch one first

Good in fact great, became a dad last Friday for the first time, born in Whiston not the Womens as its a poor hospital now and the Whiston unit is new, sunny here as well,not too sure about West Derby though, does it shine in Norris Green?

No clue, soz. Ask me one on sport.

Pap you are in the US and you look like an odd Deidre of Corry, you are posting from the States when you say you are having a ball on a sunny day, that pictures asks more questions than answers, when I was there for 3 months I had a ball.

Pap you are in the US and you look like an odd Deidre of Corry, you are posting from the States when you say you are having a ball on a sunny day, that pictures asks more questions than answers, when I was there for 3 months I had a ball.

Yeah, that criticism only really works if you can reciprocate, matey.

Why not try sliding your sausage sized fingers over your phone and sending us a mugshot?

Yeah, that criticism only really works if you can reciprocate, matey.

 

Why not try sliding your sausage sized fingers over your phone and sending us a mugshot?

Pap, sorry for not getting back but I have had visitors over to see the new arrival,why would a 38 year old man send another person a photo over the phone to justify themselves? You feel the need to not me, thats the sign of insecurity, and all the while you are having a ball over there with your accent.

Pap, sorry for not getting back but I have had visitors over to see the new arrival,why would a 38 year old man send another person a photo over the phone to justify themselves? You feel the need to not me, thats the sign of insecurity, and all the while you are having a ball over there with your accent.

It's a laugh. Call it photographic banter if you like.

I don't really want to see a picture of you Bazza. Just pointing out that you're in no position to comment on the appearance of others when you hide behind your anonymity, probs because you're a gigantic munter.

Low self-esteem is one of the biggest drivers of insecurity. It's the sort of thing that makes people nationalist. Something to cling to, eh? Bit of borrowed glory.

Well done on the nipper.

It's a laugh. Call it photographic banter if you like.

 

I don't really want to see a picture of you Bazza. Just pointing out that you're in no position to comment on the appearance of others when you hide behind your anonymity, probs because you're a gigantic munter.

 

Low self-esteem is one of the biggest drivers of insecurity. It's the sort of thing that makes people nationalist. Something to cling to, eh? Bit of borrowed glory.

 

Well done on the nipper.

Pap if that comforts you so be it, you are the one in the US having a ball with your accent whilst I am simply watching match of the day, the issue is need and feed here, I suggest go and have a ball and a blast over there and get of a forum posting pictures of yourself.

Pap if that comforts you so be it, you are the one in the US having a ball with your accent whilst I am simply watching match of the day, the issue is need and feed here, I suggest go and have a ball and a blast over there and get of a forum posting pictures of yourself.

Actually been working much of today. The photo was from Target. Emergency mouse purchase. The ball will be had tonight though. Earned, too. The best kind.

Actually been working much of today. The photo was from Target. Emergency mouse purchase. The ball will be had tonight though. Earned, too. The best kind.

Very good, enjoy.

Very good, enjoy.

Good man. Enjoyed it very much. Back to the original topic. It'd be awesome if you could live in another country without having to give up prior allegiances to a mother country. I love the US, except for one thing. Entry. It is a total and complete pain in the arse, the immigration folk take the default position that you're looking to hide away in some deep and dark recess of their country.

The most honest thing I can say is that every time I come back to the UK, I feel like kissing the ground. I never actually do it, but the sentiment is real.

One almost wonders why immigration to the US has been largely favourable to those least suited to live here.

Britain does not let you go. You are a Brit forever officially.

If that were not the case, I would have not taken American citizenship. Yes, America legally demands that you renounce any other nationality, but there is no oath or document to back this up.

If I can't be a British citizen, then I can't be a proud Sotonian....I ain't giving that up for anything!!!

Good man. Enjoyed it very much. Back to the original topic. It'd be awesome if you could live in another country without having to give up prior allegiances to a mother country. I love the US, except for one thing. Entry. It is a total and complete pain in the arse, the immigration folk take the default position that you're looking to hide away in some deep and dark recess of their country.

 

The most honest thing I can say is that every time I come back to the UK, I feel like kissing the ground. I never actually do it, but the sentiment is real.

 

One almost wonders why immigration to the US has been largely favourable to those least suited to live here.

My wife and I may have to move there in a few years, it appeals for our new born and the lifestyle, I have friends there already but am still reserved at the prospect, on one looking forward to it and on the other living full time in a Nation that cares little for its fellow citizens and the World at large.

There are places in the States I would love to live, Denver, Flagstaff and other parts of Arizona too be fair.

My wife and I may have to move there in a few years, it appeals for our new born and the lifestyle, I have friends there already but am still reserved at the prospect, on one looking forward to it and on the other living full time in a Nation that cares little for its fellow citizens and the World at large.

There are places in the States I would love to live, Denver, Flagstaff and other parts of Arizona too be fair.

It's very socially stratified. Cars are essential, which makes it all the more amazing when so many people do not have them.

I've had the chance to move here loads of times, but the timing or money has never been right. My advice to you would be to do it sooner rather than later if you want to.

I've been to NJ, NY, LA and North Carolina. I've been to the last place five times now. It's easily my favourite place that I've been to. People are a lot friendlier, cost of living is dirt cheap and apart from the stifling humidity in the deep of summer (it actually feels like a dozen people are breathing on your neck), it's pretty good weather. The weather this week has been like a great British summer.

As you say though, the welfare safety net is not great. Obamacare isn't anything like the NHS and never will be.

The other thing that really bothers me is the fact that the most likely route over will involve a visa sponsored by a company. That's all fine and dandy as long as the job exists. Can leave you somewhat f**ked if the corporate wind changes direction.

It's very socially stratified. Cars are essential, which makes it all the more amazing when so many people do not have them.

 

I've had the chance to move here loads of times, but the timing or money has never been right. My advice to you would be to do it sooner rather than later if you want to.

 

I've been to NJ, NY, LA and North Carolina. I've been to the last place five times now. It's easily my favourite place that I've been to. People are a lot friendlier, cost of living is dirt cheap and apart from the stifling humidity in the deep of summer (it actually feels like a dozen people are breathing on your neck), it's pretty good weather. The weather this week has been like a great British summer.

 

As you say though, the welfare safety net is not great. Obamacare isn't anything like the NHS and never will be.

 

The other thing that really bothers me is the fact that the most likely route over will involve a visa sponsored by a company. That's all fine and dandy as long as the job exists. Can leave you somewhat f**ked if the corporate wind changes direction.

We could do it a number of ways but through my wifes company (Kelloggs) we would be fast tracked so I am told (they have an inhouse ex pat team), we get a house and all the stuff that comes with it, a permanent residence would come once we are there or if we enjoyed it, we would be in Michigan which hardly inspires but Kalamazoo sounds cool.

We could do it a number of ways but through my wifes company (Kelloggs) we would be fast tracked so I am told (they have an inhouse ex pat team), we get a house and all the stuff that comes with it, a permanent residence would come once we are there or if we enjoyed it, we would be in Michigan which hardly inspires but Kalamazoo sounds cool.

Yeah, she'd be on an L1 visa, which is the easiest way (and much sturdier than an H1B). I'd have my doubts about Michigan - a lot of industry has shut down there, so you have to wonder about long-term viability. Just do it before the nipper starts school, because that'll root you more than anything else.

Yeah, she'd be on an L1 visa, which is the easiest way (and much sturdier than an H1B). I'd have my doubts about Michigan - a lot of industry has shut down there, so you have to wonder about long-term viability. Just do it before the nipper starts school, because that'll root you more than anything else.

Kelloggs will never leave there as its the symbolic heart of the company, Chicago is where the ad based headquarters are and they possibly move more things there, but a full move from Battle Creek would never happen. We would be set up pretty much, I even get a resettlement package.

Duplicate post.

My wife and I may have to move there in a few years.

Be careful what you wish for. Emigrating to the US absolutely requires that you avoid two things: getting old and getting ill. That’s aside from getting poor.

75% of all American citizens nearing retirement have less than $30,000 in their retirement (401k) accounts. Between 1991 and 2007 (just before the crisis hit), bankruptcies among the elderly increased by 150% - mostly because of unpayable medical bills. 46% of ALL bankruptcies in the US are because of unpayable medical bills.

Americans spend twice as much, per person, on medical bills than any other country in the world. Between 2002 and 2011, the average cost per family of medical insurance doubled. Cancer care per patient (!) can easily top a £1 million. One case, reported by CNN last year, involved a 60-year-old suffering from difficulties in breathing and spent just a few days in intensive care. The bill was $474,000. Even going to the ER (the US version of A&E) can bankrupt you. And don’t think that insurance will protect you. It won’t. You could still be left with bills for as much as four-fifths of the total – perhaps more if you’re on a dodgy “HMO” deal.

Here’s what Time magazine found in a detailed investigation in 2012:

Simple lab-work done during a few days in the hospital can cost more than a car. A trip to the emergency room for chest pains that turns out to be indigestion can exceed the cost of a semester at college.

Despite that, the US hospital system is rated absolutely dead last in terms of quality of care: Americans are sicker and live shorter lives than any other developed country.

The last time I lived in the States, I faced a choice: take out family medical insurance at a cost of $1200 a month. Or get comparable insurance coverage by taking out an American Express medical policy that cost £240 per year, which basically covered triage costs in the US and the flight back to the NHS. This insurance policy would not have been available to me had I been a US citizen or on a Green Card.

I wouldn’t become a US citizen for other reasons too – not least the way in which the legal system can bankrupt you in a heartbeat, and the ways in which the criminal justice system has dispensed with the idea of innocence by heavily penalising you for insisting on getting your day in court.

As much as I enjoy working in and travelling around the US, I’ll stick to my EU passport, thanks.

One of the things that put me off emigrating to Orange County in 1998 was the endgame. I simply didn't see how old people could live there. I wouldn't mind living there for a few years when the kids have gone to Uni, but I think I'll end up back in the UK. The money on offer in the States, comparatively speaking, is enough to make the move. I earn a decent wedge compared to most people doing my job, but I am "cheap" by US standards. Permanent software developers can earn $125K p.a, contract developers even more.

There are a lot of charities that help people with medical costs. A buddy of mine was in a motorcycle accident and was fixed for free. Similarly, there are charities that help people with cancer - but it is far from universal. Speaking with colleagues at work, some of the basic medical costs are scandalous and for all the stick the NHS gets over waiting lists, I'm told it can take a month to see a GP here.