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Thread: Standard of refs

  1. #1

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    Default Standard of refs

    What are your thoughts this season. Not just in saints games but other prem games you have see . Involving saints, most fans are biased but you can't deny that refs across the board have been pretty poor

    Just watching MOTD and the two penalty shouts at man city and how a ref can give one and not the other. WTF???

    Some of this things they get very wrong are just not that difficult and they don't help themselves

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    I used to think the PL moaned and groaned when he had the referees from league 1/Championship but I'm suprised at how awful they've been this and last season. Is it because of the pressures and publicity of the PL?

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    They haven't been appalling just people expect 100% correct decisions which is unrealistic. Far better standard than we had in L1.

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    In all fairness to the officials if players stopped cheating it would be easier

    The ref against palace deserves credit for spotting the dive & not giving a pen & red card against Boruc

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    This. Player cheating is the key. The only genuine impediment was against Walters, the rest could have stayed on their feet. You can see the trailing legs being left in which is just. Cynical in my opinion
    Sent from my RM-821_eu_euro1_276 using Board Express

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    I think there are several issues here. No-one has ever claimed that it's easy to referee a game - even at schoolboy level, and some top flight proffs. are expert at " diving and faking off-the-ball incidents ".

    Being in charge of a game and out in the middle of the pitch, running at the same rate as players calls for remarkable skills of energy - and perception. Refs. are bound to miss things and make mistakes.
    Of course may of them are very experienced and "don't miss much", whereas others are often diabolical in their interpretation of the same ruling.

    What really angers me is that Sepp Blatter refuses to allow referees the benefit of the modern technology that I have at home - when I watching a game on TV...namely a quick replay of any incident.
    It doesn't take a lot of time Mr.Blatter. A throw takes about 10-15 secs, a corner or free kick can mean a stop of around a minute in active play. TV replays come in a matter of seconds.

    It's a small step forward to have wireless contact between officials, and thats positive..but the Lampard incident of the " goal that wasn't given " goes to show that the whole scenario was a fiasco when a game played at the highest level can have a " miss " like that one. Two billion people saw that the ball crossed the line - but not the ref. and Blatter's " apology " was nothing short of embarrassing.

    Goal-line technology is only a small step of improvement and may only be called upon a few times a season. Disputed penalties, and doubtful off-side decisions happen in every match.
    Such incidents may " level themselves out " - over a season - but in a one-off competitive game e.g. World Cup. It's over and done with - and if missed, may cost the game.

    If we can have a fourth official .(or even a fifth) sat in front of a TV, then we'd have a much higher % of correct decisions, and much fewer embarrasing "game-changing " mistakes.
    In most games, the Sky commentator has a better glimpse of the reality than does the man in the middle. Finally, we have to admit that as human beings we are all fallible - even refs.

    A study published by a Spanish researcher proved that the human eye is not capable of changing its perception of visual fields in the split second that is needed to make key decisions in a game.
    Example, watching an incident 20-30 yards away and then suddenly changing to focus on something that is perhaps only two yards away in the next second.

    Given this sort of information, it's no wonder that there is so many disputes and discussions in the game.

  7. #7

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    As others have said, it's amusing to hear managers *****ing and moaning about refs whilst their players go to ground every time somebody breathes on them. The referees are being put in a very difficult position.

    It has become acceptable to go to ground every time somebody touches you. 90% of the time players go down it's unnatural and they could have stayed up.

  8. #8

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    I agree. You watch rugby players going hell for leather and when obstructed or tripped, they try hard to keep to their feet as there is no benefit to going down, just getting as much territory as possible.

    They look too much these days to going down when they feel something in thehope of gaining an advantage. If you intrduced retrospective fines and sanctions for any diving caught on TV screens they would soon start to try and keep their balance.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    What are your thoughts this season. Not just in saints games but other prem games you have see . Involving saints, most fans are biased but you can't deny that refs across the board have been pretty poor

    Just watching MOTD and the two penalty shouts at man city and how a ref can give one and not the other. WTF???

    Some of this things they get very wrong are just not that difficult and they don't help themselves
    I thought there was a subtle but significant difference between the two incidents. As others have mentioned, these players spend hours practising throwing themselves to the ground whenever possible.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry the Badger View Post
    As others have said, it's amusing to hear managers *****ing and moaning about refs whilst their players go to ground every time somebody breathes on them. The referees are being put in a very difficult position.

    It has become acceptable to go to ground every time somebody touches you. 90% of the time players go down it's unnatural and they could have stayed up.
    Whilst this is true, this is also because players know they won't get legitimate fouls awarded to them if they do try and stay on their feet. You'll hear commentators say things like "oh, he's been too honest there".

    Or even if there's no contact, and an attacking player has to hurdle a defender's leg... but that causes him to lose half a yard and so another defender can clear. Is that a foul? (paging Whitey Grandad) I doubt it would be given in most cases, so what incentive does the attacking player have to evade the challenge in the first place?

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by saint si View Post
    Whilst this is true, this is also because players know they won't get legitimate fouls awarded to them if they do try and stay on their feet. You'll hear commentators say things like "oh, he's been too honest there".

    Or even if there's no contact, and an attacking player has to hurdle a defender's leg... but that causes him to lose half a yard and so another defender can clear. Is that a foul? (paging Whitey Grandad) I doubt it would be given in most cases, so what incentive does the attacking player have to evade the challenge in the first place?
    Yep, that's a foul. 'Trip or attempt to trip'. If the player is impeded by the action, even if not actually touched, and it causes them to lose possession then it's a foul. You get all sorts of comments with penalty claims, 'there was contact' as though that's all that matters. A lot of referees take the view that the attacking player must make some attempt to evade the challenge, it's not enough to see a leg stuck out and then pretend to touch it with your toe and go down like and aircraft with a collapsed undercarriage. If you're ever in doubt then look at the leg that's not been touched and try to decide if it's continuing in a natural running motion or whether the player has just tucked it up and fallen over. Did he trip or was he tripped? The other aspect is how quickly they go down. There is a natural speed to the way that someone falls and some of them actually throw themselves to the ground. They can be very good at it.

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    This is actually quite an interesting discussion that of course would have been less of one 30 or so years ago. I do strongly believe that the standard of refereeing as improved. However, one of the large questions that remain is it improving at the same rate that the players are. This is particularly poignant when you consider the vast differences in pool sizes between players and referees. As a referee, I wrote an article about how there are systematic flaws in football that are limiting that pool of referees. My aim was to provide some insights from the referees perspective, rather than the usual from the outside. It is very much IMHO however.

    http://lastminutewinner.net/officiat...e-game-part-1/

  13. #13

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    Very interesting, S-S. I think everybody should at least try refereeing a game before they criticise any referee, and before that they should learn the Laws too.

  14. #14

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    If refs got paid more and got less abuse we'd have better officials.

    What do the top ones get paid? Ģ30k or something? Fair enough that's a decent wage but only the elite get that and to reach the top of their profession takes years of being roundly abused every week in person and by fat, idiotic, think-they-know-it-alls sat behind keyboards the world over.

    I applaud anyone who steps up and wants to do it because without them we wouldn't have a game to watch.

  15. #15

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    Ģ38k plus match fees, average Ģ70k total.

    Fancy giving it a go?

    http://www.tsmplug.com/football/aver...ague-referees/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    Very interesting, S-S. I think everybody should at least try refereeing a game before they criticise any referee, and before that they should learn the Laws too.
    I'm game. Can I do Old Trafford in a fortnight?

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by hutch View Post
    I'm game. Can I do Old Trafford in a fortnight?
    Isn't the cricket season over?

  18. #18

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    seems every week there is an absolute howler
    the last set of games, the ref at man city v everton was horrific

    now, the one at stamford bridge allowing chelseas first goal

  19. #19

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    some terrible calls....or non-calls I should say...

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    The Chelsea goal was shockingly bad

    Why can a keeper bounce the ball when they are only supposed to handle the ball once
    Why is bouncing it any different to dropping the ball to the ground then picking it up again
    Also when was the last time a ref enforced the 6 second rule for keepers to have the ball in their possession ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulwantsapint View Post
    The Chelsea goal was shockingly bad

    Why can a keeper bounce the ball when they are only supposed to handle the ball once
    Why is bouncing it any different to dropping the ball to the ground then picking it up again
    Also when was the last time a ref enforced the 6 second rule for keepers to have the ball in their possession ?
    1) Because it says so in the law book
    2) Because it isn't according to the law book
    3) Culture - if a ref ever calls this a keeper up after 7 seconds he'll be hung, drawn and quartered.

    Haven't seen the Chelsea goal yet, but it seems that this was a huge error. A bit like the beach ball incident at Sunderland a couple of years back - where the referee has simply got the laws wrong. That (like the beach ball) is unforgivable, which should result in a month of lower tier refereeing for the ref and the AR closest to the incident.

    However fans expectation that refs should get 100% of their decisions correct means that referees will never exceed expectations. It is impossible.

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    Though it would be nice if a ref knew the basic laws about a goalkeeper bouncing the ball being still considered as having control of the ball, whilst something like rolling it along the ground Kelvin-style pre-kick counts as releasing it, and anyone could stick THAT in the back of the next legitimately. It's all around changes from the backpass law and then again the 6-second release law.

    I'm not a ref and haven't even taken a test for it in 20 years, but *I* know it's a foul, why the hell doesn't he?

    Also, re: the 6 second rule - it was introduced to ensure time-wasting didn't take place, which it now doesn't across football in this situation because of the threat of a foul being called.

    The ref can still call it, they just tend to give the keeper a warning first, which is far preferable than artificially creating a very good scoring opportunity for one team due to a minor infringement anyway.
    Last edited by The9; 20-10-2013 at 01:44 AM.

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    if bouncing the ball counts as releasing it, the keeper should have been done for picking it back up, surely?

    apparently, the ref said that the cardiff keeper had dropped the ball, therefore it was in play

    WTF??
    Last edited by Batman; 20-10-2013 at 09:58 AM.

  24. #24

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    Looked on MOTD like the ref wasn't even looking at the ball when it was bounced, in which case he's presumably relying on the linesman to make a decision.

    This could have all been sorted with video replays before the ball hit the back of the net.

  25. Default

    It drives me nuts how fans at games think they know better. Fans only get a better view when the ball's somewhere along the perimeter and on the outside of the players.

    With 50 angles and and slow motion it's easy for TV pick out problems but, for all our huffing and puffing this season I don't think I've ever judged a significant call better than the ref in real time.

    It's fair to say standards could be higher, but fans in the stands are not to be the judges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuncanRG View Post
    It drives me nuts how fans at games think they know better. Fans only get a better view when the ball's somewhere along the perimeter and on the outside of the players.

    With 50 angles and and slow motion it's easy for TV pick out problems but, for all our huffing and puffing this season I don't think I've ever judged a significant call better than the ref in real time.

    It's fair to say standards could be higher, but fans in the stands are not to be the judges.
    we are talking about utter howlers here. not 50/50s or hard to calls.

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    another absolute howler this week
    the Ref at Carrow Rd

    every week, the refs are getting in a complete howler

  28. #28

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    mariner yesterday couldn't keep up with play. It was just too fast for him. Main reason for errors I think eg missed corner in first half when he was 30+ yards away.

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    another absolute howler this week
    the Ref at Carrow Rd

    every week, the refs are getting in a complete howler
    I thought he dealt with that sensibly if you're referring to the disallowed goal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry the Badger View Post
    I thought he dealt with that sensibly if you're referring to the disallowed goal.
    the laws of the game say he should have allowed it.
    he took the matter into his own hands, rightly or wrongly

  31. #31

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    Some say that play hadnīt restarted after that injury, dont know if thatīs correct though..

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    I know the one in the Spurs v Hull game is capable of making blunders! Steve Bruce will tell the truth ...and get a touchline ban for 3 matches.

    We don't need 3, 4 of 5 match officials to decide that one ...the Sky commentator had it right the first time.

    When the Spurs man centred the ball..... it struck the defender's thigh and rebounded onto his arm ----- Penalty ? ....Never in a million years..except at White Hart Lane.

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    this weeks utter howler happened at the bridge

    disgraceful decision

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    Thought our ref was pretty good. In the whole 90 mins he only got a couple of decision (imo) wrong. Penalty was definitely a penalty. Nothing really major went wrong for him. Well done Mr Dowd.

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    It's not as if Marriner had a bad view of the incident, it's as if he's looking for the opportunity to award a penalty!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwsaint View Post
    Thought our ref was pretty good. In the whole 90 mins he only got a couple of decision (imo) wrong. Penalty was definitely a penalty. Nothing really major went wrong for him. Well done Mr Dowd.
    Agree, he seemed to have a good rapport with the players but neither side made it hard for him today..played in a good spirit throughout.

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    That's just ridiculous. You can clearly see Ramires deliberately fall into the WBA player to con the ref there. If that had been given against us I would be fuming. Terrible refereeing IMO.

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    On the plus side.... We r next at Chelsea and wouldnt want to face them after a home defeat

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    You could easily start to believe there were corrupt referees sometimes.

  41. Default

    Stoke's penalty

  42. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by for_heaven's_Saint View Post
    Stoke's penalty
    Mind boggling decision

  43. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by trousers View Post
    Mind boggling decision
    I thought so at first but it did actually hit Routledge (?)on the arm.

  44. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    I thought so at first but it did actually hit Routledge (?)on the arm.
    If 'accidentally brushing the arm of a defender' is handball according to the rules of the game then the rules need changing. IMO.

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by trousers View Post
    If 'accidentally brushing the arm of a defender' is handball according to the rules of the game then the rules need changing. IMO.
    There's a bit more to it than that, to be fair, position of the arm, motion towards the ball etc. He did actually deflect the ball away from goal but I agree, it was a bit harsh.

  46. #46

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    Letīs just say that refs probably saved Hughes job for a while.
    First the non call on Shawcross handball last week against us, and now this call....

  47. #47

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    I have a. Lot of sympathy for refs. Players need to stop conning them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry the Badger View Post
    I have a. Lot of sympathy for refs. Players need to stop conning them.
    But the decision at Chelsea was horrendous

  49. #49

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    Seems to be the fashion this season to award controversial penalties deep into injury time - only when they affect the result, mind.

    Gives the referees concerned more celebrity status.

  50. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    But the decision at Chelsea was horrendous
    Yes, unbelievably poor. The ref saw what he wanted to see.

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