Poch's history lesson....as per the Echo

Lots of convincing arguements, - although I don't agree with every one of them - in the Echo criticism of Pochettino view of the FA Cup. I might suggest a few ideas (in his defence) ....

Firstly, his first task last season was to save Saints from a relegation battle which he achieved. Continuing on from there in August in pursuit of the Cortese vision getting Saints into Europe.

Everyone including the majority of Saints fans, and the Football World in general were amazed at the whirlwind start we made in the Autumn, and some would argue that had it not been for the Boruc's injury (at Chelsea) and the subsequent injuries to Wanyama and Schneiderlin ....and laterly Lovren, we might still be capable of a place in the top four/five.

Cortese for all his better decisions ..(and there were quite a few). was the perfect example of " a new broom " in the organisation and had determined to erase the memory of the League 1 club he was chairing and create a new European entity, but did it to the detriment of our history, which for many of us is the core of our support, and ignored everything that went before.

Surely this atttitude was conveyed to MP who seems to have been spending hours every day on the training ground.

Further...his vague grasp of the English language - please everyone stop saying he speaks " Perfect English "..I teach the subject, and he doesn't, although he does understand basic football jargon.

In common with many "foreigners " he may not understand the romance / history / glory factor to winning the FA Cup in particular ..

We were already out of 2013 cup, when he arrived and doesn't understand fully the fans affinity to the competition.

NOTE: Swedish football fans (and likewise some other Euro lands)... don't even talk about their Cup competition and regard it an an interuption to the " real matter of the League "

-an attitude I recall that was levelled at the League Cup in England, when it was first introduced in the 1960's.

The one thing he will have learned from this episode is : don't ignore the FA Cup in the future, we're unlikely to ever win the League, but the FA Cup isn't second best for 80-odd other league clubs.

Our bench may be populated from promising young players, but in general we don't have the strength in depth needed at this level.

We lost by one (let's admit it) very good goal, but our " star players " missed several other gold-edged chances that might have won the game. Not entirely his fault.

Disappointing YES .- but we live and learn - let's move on.

Thought the Echo article was spot on to be fair.

Learning lessons etc seems irrelevant when he won't be here next season.

Exactly. Perhaps we'll get a big Sam type, I mean he must know that the FA Cup is the most importantest thing in the whole wide world right. Then again we might get a Germano-Canadian-Swiss Ice Hockey Coach who'll no doubt be aiming for the Stanley Cup.

Please find me a manager that will come out and say that the cup is more important than the league or show me a teamsheet where no players have been rotated to the cup game.

Even the biggest clubs will say that the league is more important than Champions ****in League.

It´s not history or anything, it´s what it looks like in year 2014 and has done so for a long while...

The point made about cup competitions is a valid one. 25 years ago, a 5th round cup-tie would have been a massive game. As would an international.

Now they are an inconevience. An unfortunate by-product of the Sky era and the corporate entity our game has become.

Please find me a manager that will come out and say that the cup is more important than the league or show me a teamsheet where no players have been rotated to the cup game.

 

Even the biggest clubs will say that the league is more important than Champions ****in League.

 

It´s not history or anything, it´s what it looks like in year 2014 and has done so for a long while...

But we have NOTHING to play for in the league.

I don’t think anyone is saying that the FA cup is more important than the league or champions league....

The point is that we are safe - we are unlikely to move much in the league (max 7 low 9) so why not start to prioritise the FA cup?

The only explanation I have seen is Mopos bonus and that’s why everyone is so peed off

I don’t think anyone is saying that the FA cup is more important than the league or champions league....

 

The point is that we are safe - we are unlikely to move much in the league (max 7 low 9) so why not start to prioritise the FA cup?

 

The only explanation I have seen is Mopos bonus and that’s why everyone is so peed off

We have everything to play for in the league, we could easily finish 6th because our remaining programme against Utd's and Everton's in theory allows us to do so, beat them both at home and we're half-way there already. One has CL ambitions starting on Tuesday or Wednesday and the other is still in the Cup with some nasty looking PL games coming up. 6th would get us into the EL by the front door this season because Citeh will beat sunderland in the C1C final.

6th in the PL would give us a superior status to enable us to obtain the quality players we so desperately need.

We have everything to play for in the league, we could easily finish 6th

We have everything to play for in the league, we could easily finish 6th because our remaining programme against Utd and Everton.

So if MP put the same team out that played on Saturday against those two teams and then sat back in the dug out with his arms crossed and we lost by 1 goal, would you be disappointed.

The point is, the main target is to finish as high as we can in the league. It is said on every press conference cause practically every week some journo asks about that and always get the same answer, we take one game at a time and the target is to finish as high as we can. That does not mean we dont care about cup games but we will not risk players that aren´t 100% fit in cup games unless we are forced to and we might switch another one, two or three players. If the squad was strong enough it can handle that, and saturdays team was more than enough to have a chance of winning that game.

It was a game we lost because players didn´t perform.

But sometimes you have to lose a battle to win the war, and our war is to finish as high as we possibly can in the league, with all what that means for the clubs reputation when we want to progress.

It´s not like we have that many top 8 finishes in PL so I dont really understand all this "we have nothing to play for in the league" chat....

So if MP put the same team out that played on Saturday against those two teams and then sat back in the dug out with his arms crossed and we lost by 1 goal, would you be disappointed.

Do you really think a manager standing on the sidelines and screaming has that big effect on players?

Why weren´t Di Canio or Stuart Pearce successful then?

Please find me a manager that will come out and say that the cup is more important than the league or show me a teamsheet where no players have been rotated to the cup game.

 

Even the biggest clubs will say that the league is more important than Champions ****in League.

 

It´s not history or anything, it´s what it looks like in year 2014 and has done so for a long while...

True, even in the 1970's, the late great Bill Shankly said the league was more important than the F A Cup !

The point is, the main target is to finish as high as we can in the league. It is said on every press conference cause practically every week some journo asks about that and always get the same answer, we take one game at a time and the target is to finish as high as we can. That does not mean we dont care about cup games but we will not risk players that aren´t 100% fit in cup games unless we are forced to and we might switch another one, two or three players. If the squad was strong enough it can handle that, and saturdays team was more than enough to have a chance of winning that game.

It was a game we lost because players didn´t perform.

 

But sometimes you have to lose a battle to win the war, and our war is to finish as high as we possibly can in the league, with all what that means for the clubs reputation when we want to progress.

It´s not like we have that many top 8 finishes in PL so I dont really understand all this "we have nothing to play for in the league" chat....

Surely post of the week !

But we have NOTHING to play for in the league.

Except about £800,000 per league position, remember it cost the Skates big time with bonuses when they won it. Not that I am saying I did not want to win it.

Do you really think a manager standing on the sidelines and screaming has that big effect on players?

 

Why weren´t Di Canio or Stuart Pearce successful then?

F u c k off

The only explanation I have seen is Mopos bonus and that’s why everyone is so peed off

You've obviously decided this is fact. To stop anyone referring to you as a troll if you could get your hands on a copy of his contract, have it scanned and uploaded that would be great.

Except about £800,000 per league position, remember it cost the Skates big time with bonuses when they won it. Not that I am saying I did not want to win it.

It will be far more than that this season, probably somewhere around 1.1 million, the average PL payout will be increased by about 50% from last year I believe, some of that will depend on finishing places.

So if MP put the same team out that played on Saturday against those two teams and then sat back in the dug out with his arms crossed and we lost by 1 goal, would you be disappointed.

But he won't because they'll be played in front of capacity home crowds and he won't have to use players who I don't doubt he has no respect for and doesn't want in his squad. I wouldn't that doubt if someone asked Mauricio if he was in total accordance with the giving away of Osvaldo the truthful answer would be no. He is under duress to use the kids, I doubt if that's really really what he wants to do.

Was that your 2nd or 3rd post of the day?

You might have one more try to answering a simple question like that today.

If Adam and Rickie had put away their chances they would both usually score, we would have won the game 2-1. The rest would be, as they say, elementary! The team we put out was good enough to win the match, the performance wasn't good enough. As simple and as frustrating as that.

If Adam and Rickie had put away their chances they would both usually score, we would have won the game 2-1. The rest would be, as they say, elementary! The team we put out was good enough to win the match, the performance wasn't good enough. As simple and as frustrating as that.

Aint that the truth, brutha. I was as annoyed with MoPo as everyone else on Saturday, but realistically the team he put out was good enough to win the game as long as they played to their potential. They didn't.

Just would be interested in how many of the letter writers in the Echo, who moaned on behalf of the fans who went to the game actually did go.

If Adam and Rickie had put away their chances they would both usually score, we would have won the game 2-1. The rest would be, as they say, elementary! The team we put out was good enough to win the match, the performance wasn't good enough. As simple and as frustrating as that.

Tis the truth....players let MP and us fans down on the day...

forgiven and forgotten...

Now for West Ham and Liverpool.......COYS

Keep up the good work Poch...

Kick those players up the backside.........and move on....to many more wins..

I have just realised....I am a true HAPPY CLAPPER...AND i LUV IT:D:D:D

If Adam and Rickie had put away their chances they would both usually score, we would have won the game 2-1. The rest would be, as they say, elementary! The team we put out was good enough to win the match, the performance wasn't good enough. As simple and as frustrating as that.

And if my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle.

In the league meetings our first 11 drew twice with their first 11 (dominating both matches, despite them desperate for points). It clearly follows that if we'd played our strongest 11 against their reserves on Saturday we almost certainly would've got a result.

As simple and as frustrating as that.

Here is the Echo article, BTW

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/11014639.COMMENT__Poch_needs_a_history_lesson_as_Saints_cannot_continue_to_treat_the_FA_Cup_with_so_little_respect/

True, even in the 1970's, the late great Bill Shankly said the league was more important than the F A Cup !

Winning the league.

It could be argued that the fans showed the club how important we think the cup is by the numbers attending each tie.

Winning the league.

Yes, so the league was more important than the Cup.

Yes, so the league was more important than the Cup.

Not exactly, and you know it. Being league champions was more important than winning the cup.

An honest question to all the posters who are moaning that we have nothing to play for.

Why do you support Saints?

If I take your mentality for a moment, then I *KNOW* we're not going to finish in the top 4/6/8 (depending on your own viewpoint). That being the case...why bother at all? If you already know you're not going to be satisfied at the end of the season, why get yourself all worked up for 8 months of the year?

Historically, we also have a terrible record in the Cups, so it's not as if you are going to strike lucky there.

Why not just follow the team with the most money and give yourselves better odds of going to be bed happy after your team of mercenaries that cost 200 million stick another 4 goals past the hapless opposition. Go on.... you know you want to.

An honest question to all the posters who are moaning that we have nothing to play for.

 

Why do you support Saints?

 

If I take your mentality for a moment, then I *KNOW* we're not going to finish in the top 4/6/8 (depending on your own viewpoint). That being the case...why bother at all? If you already know you're not going to be satisfied at the end of the season, why get yourself all worked up for 8 months of the year?

Historically, we also have a terrible record in the Cups, so it's not as if you are going to strike lucky there.

 

Why not just follow the team with the most money and give yourselves better odds of going to be bed happy after your team of mercenaries that cost 200 million stick another 4 goals past the hapless opposition. Go on.... you know you want to.

Sigh. We're not moaning because we have nothing (major) to play for in the league. We're pissed off because, having nothing to play for in the league, MP didn't put out his strongest side against Sunderland's reserves. If he had, we probably would've won, and again against Hull/Brighton. Not guaranteed of course, but odds on for at least a semi-final appearance. Who knows beyond that?

And yes, if we had gone out trying with our strongest line-up, we wouldn't be moaning, and we would still be enjoying the remainder of our stress-free upper mid-table exploits.

I can agree with that sentiment, and I was as disappointed as anybody that we didn't give it our best shot, and that those who did play didn't perform to their potential. I just don't like the reaction from some that we might as well pack our bags and go on our summer holidays as the season is already over. Keep the moaning relevant, but give yourselves a chance to enjoy the rest of the season!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

I don’t think anyone is saying that the FA cup is more important than the league or champions league....

 

The point is that we are safe - we are unlikely to move much in the league (max 7 low 9) so why not start to prioritise the FA cup?

 

The only explanation I have seen is Mopos bonus and that’s why everyone is so peed off

You don't mean explanation - you mean guess.

An honest question to all the posters who are moaning that we have nothing to play for.

 

Why do you support Saints?

 

If I take your mentality for a moment, then I *KNOW* we're not going to finish in the top 4/6/8 (depending on your own viewpoint). That being the case...why bother at all? If you already know you're not going to be satisfied at the end of the season, why get yourself all worked up for 8 months of the year?

Historically, we also have a terrible record in the Cups, so it's not as if you are going to strike lucky there.

 

Why not just follow the team with the most money and give yourselves better odds of going to be bed happy after your team of mercenaries that cost 200 million stick another 4 goals past the hapless opposition. Go on.... you know you want to.

Because we had something to play for in the relative comfort of knowing we wont go down, we didn't take that chance 100% by fielding our strongest side, we would rather concentrate on the League which we wont win, a lack of ambition and respect all the way around.

I don’t think anyone is saying that the FA cup is more important than the league or champions league....

 

The point is that we are safe - we are unlikely to move much in the league (max 7 low 9) so why not start to prioritise the FA cup?

 

The only explanation I have seen is Mopos bonus and that’s why everyone is so peed off

I think end of season bonuses are quite common for managers - aren't they? Didn't I read about managers who get a bonus - if they kept their teams from being relegated..

Besides there's a considrable amount of difference in payments for higher League positions, so he'd only get a proportion of that, and IF we finished high enough for some sort of Euro competition - even more.

I think end of season bonuses are quite common for managers - aren't they? Didn't I read about managers who get a bonus - if they kept their teams from being relegated..

 

Besides there's a considrable amount of difference in payments for higher League positions, so he'd only get a proportion of that, and IF we finished high enough for some sort of Euro competition - even more.

I thought we only wanted the Champions League? Seems strange you play a weakened side to get there (Europa League) the easier way, maybe he really does rate this squad really highly after all..........................

I realise that many fans are upset / angry / disappointed that we lost the Cup game, but has anyone considered that we might have played "our strongest side"?

Fonte's injury in the Hull game was horrendous - if you saw the pics. and Schneiderlin came off injured, too. They probably weren't capable of three full games in 7 days - even though they were on the bench.

Few people would be cruel enough to blame KD for their flukey goal, but we have to admit that Lallana and Lambert had golden chances that an U18 player could have out away - but they just had bad luck.

Some of Sunderlands " nine changes " must have been pretty fresh, as some of them didn't even play the previous weekend, and certainly hadn't had a midweek game as well.

I'm disappointed too, but it's hardly as if we've been winning the cup every other year and gone out to an L1 side...as one or two other Prem. sides did.

I realise that many fans are upset / angry / disappointed that we lost the Cup game, but has anyone considered that we might have played "our strongest side"?

 

Fonte's injury in the Hull game was horrendous - if you saw the pics. and Schneiderlin came off injured, too. They probably weren't capable of three full games in 7 days - even though they were on the bench.

Few people would be cruel enough to blame KD for their flukey goal, but we have to admit that Lallana and Lambert had golden chances that an U18 player could have out away - but they just had bad luck.

 

Some of Sunderlands " nine changes " must have been pretty fresh, as some of them didn't even play the previous weekend, and certainly hadn't had a midweek game as well.

 

I'm disappointed too, but it's hardly as if we've been winning the cup every other year and gone out to an L1 side...as one or two other Prem. sides did.

Are you seriously suggesting we didn't play a weakened team against Sunderland on Saturday?

I thought we only wanted the Champions League?

Seems strange you play a weakened side to get there (Europa League) the easier way, maybe he really does rate this squad really highly after all..........................

I think it was the strongest side (injuries, fatigue factors , third match in 7 days)--.see my post above.

I'm not the manager, but I don't rate many of the rest. Our first choice team is very impressive, but there is no strength in depth on the bench and almost every time we've had injuries/ suspensions, the replacements have showed up very poorly. I realise that most of them are not his chosen players, but you have to use what you have ....and IMO ...I'm not convinced.

Good job we didn't have to play 3 games in 7 days then isn't it?

 

Are you seriously suggesting we didn't play a weakened team against Sunderland on Saturday?

It is a good job that we don't play 3 games every week, but if we EVER get to a Euro competition...there will be times in the season when we may have to. We'll need a team of " supermen " for that.

weakened team YES, but I am also convinced that Perez was telling the truth when he said there were injury and fatigue factors for some players who didn't start, but were on the bench instead.

It is a good job that we don't play 3 games every week, but if we EVER get to a Euro competition...there will be times in the season when we may have to. We'll need a team of " supermen " for that.

 

weakened team YES, but I am also convinced that Perez was telling the truth when he said there were injury and fatigue factors for some players who didn't start, but were on the bench instead.

A very good point. I hope we do not qualify for Europe as we are not ready yet. In that case 8th would be a great finish. Also, the good thing is that we can start building for next season NOW !

The widely held view in the Prem League does seem to be that the FA Cup is lower priority. Understandable if your club is competing for a place in the Champions League or is at risk of losing its Prem status with all the money that goes with that, so for Pochettino to use the cup as a staff development project by handing it over to Jesus Perez was understandable, as was the resting of some first choice regular players. But, BUT, that should have changed come the Sunderland tie. Southampton fans could see that the picture had changed with the secure league position and that the Cup was now the chance for a glory season but Poch wasn't able to adjust. For the first time, his inability to speak to the fans in English, so that we can hear first hand what he was thinking about has been a real disadvantage, both for him and for us. Message to Poch? Start an intensive course on the language because we need to hear from you properly come your third season here.

It is a good job that we don't play 3 games every week, but if we EVER get to a Euro competition...there will be times in the season when we may have to. We'll need a team of " supermen " for that.

 

weakened team YES, but I am also convinced that Perez was telling the truth when he said there were injury and fatigue factors for some players who didn't start, but were on the bench instead.

I think it was the strongest side (injuries, fatigue factors , third match in 7 days)--.see my post above.

 

I'm not the manager, but I don't rate many of the rest. Our first choice team is very impressive, but there is no strength in depth on the bench and almost every time we've had injuries/ suspensions, the replacements have showed up very poorly. I realise that most of them are not his chosen players, but you have to use what you have ....and IMO ...I'm not convinced.

Where was Boruc? Fonte, Rodriguez and Schneiderlin were on the bench! Your post is factually incorrect.

When do we play 3 games in one week? Pretty much never. So some players are a bit tired in the middle of the season, I don't think anyone is contesting that suggestion.

But surely they are....nearly everyone on here is talking about a " weakened team " ....we have a squad that the start 11 is chosen from.

A lot of people here who are complaining think it's a weakened side when we don't have a " normal " start 11.

The team is chosen from the players who are fittest and tactically the best for each game, and that's not always the same. That's what I heard Perez say (in interview) ....I 'm inclined to believe it.

Where was Boruc? Fonte, Rodriguez and Schneiderlin were on the bench! Your post is factually incorrect.

well pardon me for that oversight, Barry.....but as KD has played in almost every cup game in the last two seasons, I didn't really expect to see Boruc in goal ....did you...honestly?

Rodriguez and Schneiderlin did get on as change players, but after seeing the pic. of Fonte's leg (after the Hull game), I didn't expect him to be named -even on the bench.

If you're going to blame anyone for the defeat...then you can hardly blame KD. I'd like you to name a keeper who could have saved that Sunderland goal.

We lost 0-1....and Lallana and Lambert (argueably two of our best " fit " players) ..both missed sitters. I think the reason for the loss was those squandered chances ......even the " regular players " look tired.

The Sunderland side was chosen from a squad that hadn't played in a week, and some of those - even longer ago, but it doesn't mean it wasn't their " best team ".

The clubs FA cup history involved not winning it ever, except for one year.

We're doing alright on that basis.

well pardon me for that oversight, Barry.....but as KD has played in almost every cup game in the last two seasons, I didn't really expect to see Boruc in goal ....did you...honestly?

 

If you're going to blame anyone for the defeat...then you can hardly blame him. I'd like you to name a keeper who could have saved that Sunderland goal.

 

We lost 0-1....and Lallana and Lambert (argueably two of our best " fit " players) ..both missed sitters. I think the reason for the loss was those squandered chances ......even the " regular players " look tired.

 

The Sunderland side was chosen from a squad that hadn't played in a week, and some of those - even longer ago, but it doesn't mean it wasn't their " best team ".

Our first XI was not our strongest as many were on the bench regardless of the goalkeeper, your post is wrong.

The clubs FA cup history involved not winning it ever, except for one year.

 

We're doing alright on that basis.

Exactly. 'Traditionally great cup team' my arse.